Yes, I too removed the grilles from the foglights on my '00 Forester S. I didn't do it for cosmetics or to attempt to change the lighting, but for ease in cleaning. I was getting tired of popping the grilles off and on to clean off bug guts. To offset any losses in stone-deflecting ability I installed the thick version of 3M's Stongard over the lights.
After getting my Legacy a couple months ago (97), I was bummed at the poor light pattern despite the little indicators showing they were properly aligned. So I re-aimed them to my preference with a garage door as I've done with nearly every vehicle I've ever had. When I was finished, the pattern is quite acceptable and I now have 80/100 bulbs in there for better power. So if you don't like the pattern, consider tossing the factory setting which is often quite low and aligning them to your preference by ignoring the little graduated tubes on the lamp assembly.
As for fogs, I'm still trying to figure out a way to mount a set of large Hella foglamps, but there's not enough metal up front to mount to. The bumper's backing beam appears to be thick plastic. Anyone successfully mounted a set of lamps above the bumper on this year Legacy, or know of a rally supplier with such a mount? Any ideas?
If the lights on the previous-generation Legacy were superior to the current model, they must have been something. One of the pleasant surprises we discovered when first driving our '02 Outback at night was how much more effective the lighting (low-beam) was as compared to the '95 Jimmy it replaced. Not somewhat better, but dramatically better!
I too want to upgrade the lighting on my 01 GT wagon. I was thinking of adding PIAA driving lights inside the bumper openings. But PIAA also makes a fog/driving combo light that might be a good replacement for the exisiting Legacy fogs. I don't find my fogs all that usefull really.
I have to weigh in on PIAA bulbs and lights. I'm not a big fan of em. Their regular bulbs are horribly over priced for what you get, they don't even give you upgraded wattage. Their auxiliary lights are generally expensive and I don't find they have good reflector technology. Hypov has some great Hella aftermarket driving lights on his OB and they are great. I'd stick with Hella or IPF for aftermarket lighting. Call up Ken @ http://www.susquehanna.com/susq/index.htm Great guy and great place to deal with.
Quick question: If you replace, or add, different fog ights, can you input a seperate switch for them? I agree that it seems to defeat the purpose of having fog lights on with regular headlights.
Mark- Nope, my OEM setup remains OEM. I hardly use the fog... not that I could see anything with it anyway. My auxilary has a separate switch and could be turned on with the marker lights less headlights.
I had just checked your previous link to them and found it. But these are fogs... I'm a little ignorant on the subject so cut me a little slack with these questions but I am looking for better lighting driving backroads. Probably the biggest thing is watching for deer as they are everywhere around here. Fogs won't really help me with this will they? Do they cast a wider illumination area than driving lights?
bit- Other than the grille mod, I'm mechanically and... eletrically challenge. Sorry I had a shop installed it for me. It would entail the usual harness wiring, switch installation and placement of the ballast, if HID.
The lamps were originally installed under the bumper of the OB. Later, I moved it to the grille, like it there better.
Ken- I still have to smooth out and paint the cut-off sections to complete the mod.
About a week and a half ago, in a discussion regarding the corner moldings Subaru makes available for the bumper, I commented on the black moldings for the Legacy/Outback wagons as compared to the color-matched moldings on the Passat wagon. Since that time, I've received a Japanese Subaru brochure which shows optional corner moldings for the Legacy that are color-matched to the bumper.
Although I have no intention of replacing my black guards, does anyone know of anybody importing these into the US market (apparently Subaru isn't)?
Bit, The Driving light versions of the lights are the same dimensions. Basically Hella sell Fog, Driving and Pencil Beam versions of most of their lights, but on each model the housings are the same, dimensionwise anyway.
My model is the basic Legacy L. The headlamps are impressively high quality, and the 100w high beams didn't seem to cause any problems. I'm probably not getting full output with the factory wiring so I'll eventually get around to putting in a relay and large gauge wire to power them, though the current setup is quite effective.
The Hella fogs in my garage are over 9" in diameter and will be a serious challenge to mount as they weigh a couple pounds each. I was hoping someone would know of a Subaru rally equipment supplier that may have a ready made mount for the obscenely large lamps used in that sport.
As for deer, my experience in the Elk-filled western US is that fogs are an excellent choice for animal avoidance. Good high beams will reveal distant animals like a driving light pattern would, but only a fog puts light out off the road to let you know they are lurking 30-50 feet off the road. With both high and fogs on (not possible w/ factory setups) you're really in business. In addition, a fog pattern is overall best IMHO for prolonged night driving by reducing fatigue with a broad illumination pattern for easy depth perception and acceptance from oncoming vehicles due to little glare. Shutting down a powerful driving lamp due to complaints causes instant night blindness at the same time you're getting their oncoming glare. Do this cycle for a few hours and your eyes will be fatigued big time.
I suspect a lot of people's poor view of foglamps is due to the crappy "look at me - I'm sporty" nature of factory fog lamps. I have never seen a factory set that were even as good as the entry level fog lamp from Hella (the 500 model - great light). As a result, many people turn them on and wonder what the big deal with fogs is. Get behind a real fog lamp as opposed to those odes to styling and you'll understand their versatility and effectiveness.
I studied the wiring diagrams of the 2000 Legacy / Outback and it appears to have multiple headlight relays. However, I haven't had a chance to check on the gauge of the wires.
So far so good except the car starts to shimmy at over 65 MPH and pulls to the right immediately after letting go of the steering wheel. I am taking it to the dealer next Saturday to correct these little annoying problems. Probably needs wheel balancing and alignment. I hope the service is covered under warranty. I got 21 mpg on my first fill-up.
You get 12 months or 12,000 miles for adjustments like alignments and balancing. So, you shouldn't have to pay a cent to have it corrected.
One thing you can do before you take it in is make sure that the tire pressures are correct. They are overinflated off the line to prevent flat spotting from sitting long periods on the dealer lots. Many times the dealer prep guys don't adjust the tires to the correct setting before delivery.
Thank you for the reply Brian. I did check the tire pressure before I posted the message. Initial tire pressure for the front left tire was 34 psi while the right front and the the two rear tires were 32 psi. I reset all the tires pressure to 31 psi, and still pull to right. So far I am very please with the car, ver quiet, smooth, and great automatic climate control. The best part is the auto dimming mirror. It works great. It is my first subie. I follow this thread for a year before zooming on the Bean. I will update the status of the car as I put more mileage on the car.
A couple of months back, I decided to take our '00 Outback in for an alignment. It had been ever so slightly pulling left since we bought it back in July '00, but it didn't bother me much and the tires were not showing any wear on the sides (I rotate 'em myself). I finally figured I should get it corrected. My 'original' dealer aligned it and said all was good. But, it pulled even more to the left and now to steer straight you had to steer right about 2 degrees. But, it was within the alignment tolerances and they wouldn't correct it. That was the last business I gave them. I took it to another dealer and they straightened (truely!) it out. All specs were dead on. What a difference a degree or tenth of an inch makes in alignments!
If you don't have any luck with the dealer, I've heard that Hunter alignment and balancing equipment is very reputable.
Mike - Thanks again for the refferal to Ken at Susquehanna.com. What a helpful guy!
Doug - I suspect you are right about the fogs. With what Ken at Susquehanna told me and what I could see at in the Light Tunnel at Hella I think the fogs with my high beams will fit my bill with a nice broad lighting pattern... for deer.
If all goes well pulling out the OEM fog lamps on my 01 GT I will go with the Hella MicroDEs:
For the horn that is... Anyone have any suggestions for a louder horn that's simple to install? Tried to let a truck know that I was occupying the space that he was about to move into and he hardly heard me.
I pulled out one of the OEM fogs. Unfortunately without the lamp unit in the bumper there are a few holes on the leading edge of the opening that don't look too great. I could gut the lamp, cut a hole in the lens (lens is glued on) for the round Hella MicroDE and paint the lens the body color. This might look best. I also could mount them just inboard of the OEM fogs in the fluted portion of the bumper. This would allow for even better mounting as there is metal behind the plastic bumper cover here. At least I could get practice cutting the round hole as the passenger side would be in the tow hook cover. I'll try and post some Photoshop pics later so this all makes sense.
Anyone know what 00-02 L's had where the GT fogs are? If I remember correctly fogs weren't offered on the L... perhaps a pop in cover/plug that would help my install rather than gutting my OEM fogs.
Jim - Thanks for the "L" info... sounds perfect. You can get the MicroDEs as driving lights too.
I'm going for it. Going to pull the OEMs and install the DEs in their place. Once I get them adjusted I will get the L mesh and see if it will work as a cover for the hole and a surround for the DE.
Pulled 2nd place today in H-stock running his Outback @ Nassau Colleseum. The R-compounds really did well on there. Now we just need to stiffen up the suspension and we are all set
Dang, man, you guys are doing consistently well. Congrats.
dassub: Pam at iSR Subaru will import just about any part, but it'll cost you.
Alland: yeah, you should have a 1 year adjustment period for things like that, all free.
I swapped my horns for a Highway Blaster (I think FIAMM makes it), but it's no louder than stock. It does, however, "honk" instead of "beeping", and I got the low pitch noise, which doesn't sound as wimpy.
It was mike behind the wheel placing second. I'm happy with the progress I'm making; trusting the car more and picking up confidence along the way. Ya, those Toyo RA-1s are pretty amazing helping out in the confidence arena.
Took the car in to the shop today to get the hit and run damage fixed. I had just about decided to skip the repair of the small ding I asked about recently and just have the bumper redone. Over the weekend I investigated a little closer and noticed that the paint under the lip where the ding was located was cracked and I could easily flake it off with my finger nail. I figured I was asking for trouble leaving this alone, so I went ahead and told them to repair it all. I'm holding my breath...
Comments
Ed
As for fogs, I'm still trying to figure out a way to mount a set of large Hella foglamps, but there's not enough metal up front to mount to. The bumper's backing beam appears to be thick plastic. Anyone successfully mounted a set of lamps above the bumper on this year Legacy, or know of a rally supplier with such a mount? Any ideas?
Thanks,
IdahoDoug
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?s=9d8277392e974405bff1058c5be02932&threadid=94
Ken
My wife's Legacy could use a lighting upgrade (2002 L).
-juice
-mike
bit
I can't remember who, but I vaguely recall seeing an OB owner (previous gen, though) that mounted driving lights in his grille.
Ken (still Google-ing)
bit
-mike
Dave/Hypov- Is that how you have yours rigged?
Mark
like this?
http://isuzu-suvs.com/autox/ax-07-21-02/people-pics/pages/DSCN5934.htm
Mark-
Nope, my OEM setup remains OEM. I hardly use the fog... not that I could see anything with it anyway.
My auxilary has a separate switch and could be turned on with the marker lights less headlights.
-Dave
bit
they're Hella DE Xenon headlamps
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P24414B71
-Dave
bit
-mike
bit
bit
You'll find the dimensions of their products here:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R28556B71
Sorry, don't know how to hook it up directly here.
The DEs comes in HID (which I have) and Halogen. The Halogen has two versions, Fog which mike had the link to and driving lights.
-Dave
Yes, those are those ones I was talking about! I knew I saw them somewhere!
Ken
Dave - so other than the grill mods how difficult was the install? Any and all info appreciated.
bit
Other than the grille mod, I'm mechanically and... eletrically challenge. Sorry
I had a shop installed it for me. It would entail the usual harness wiring, switch installation and placement of the ballast, if HID.
The lamps were originally installed under the bumper of the OB. Later, I moved it to the grille, like it there better.
Ken-
I still have to smooth out and paint the cut-off sections to complete the mod.
-Dave
Although I have no intention of replacing my black guards, does anyone know of anybody importing these into the US market (apparently Subaru isn't)?
The Driving light versions of the lights are the same dimensions. Basically Hella sell Fog, Driving and Pencil Beam versions of most of their lights, but on each model the housings are the same, dimensionwise anyway.
-mike
bit
The Hella fogs in my garage are over 9" in diameter and will be a serious challenge to mount as they weigh a couple pounds each. I was hoping someone would know of a Subaru rally equipment supplier that may have a ready made mount for the obscenely large lamps used in that sport.
As for deer, my experience in the Elk-filled western US is that fogs are an excellent choice for animal avoidance. Good high beams will reveal distant animals like a driving light pattern would, but only a fog puts light out off the road to let you know they are lurking 30-50 feet off the road. With both high and fogs on (not possible w/ factory setups) you're really in business. In addition, a fog pattern is overall best IMHO for prolonged night driving by reducing fatigue with a broad illumination pattern for easy depth perception and acceptance from oncoming vehicles due to little glare. Shutting down a powerful driving lamp due to complaints causes instant night blindness at the same time you're getting their oncoming glare. Do this cycle for a few hours and your eyes will be fatigued big time.
I suspect a lot of people's poor view of foglamps is due to the crappy "look at me - I'm sporty" nature of factory fog lamps. I have never seen a factory set that were even as good as the entry level fog lamp from Hella (the 500 model - great light). As a result, many people turn them on and wonder what the big deal with fogs is. Get behind a real fog lamp as opposed to those odes to styling and you'll understand their versatility and effectiveness.
IdahoDoug
Jim
-mike
Alland
One thing you can do before you take it in is make sure that the tire pressures are correct. They are overinflated off the line to prevent flat spotting from sitting long periods on the dealer lots. Many times the dealer prep guys don't adjust the tires to the correct setting before delivery.
-Brian
Alland
A couple of months back, I decided to take our '00 Outback in for an alignment. It had been ever so slightly pulling left since we bought it back in July '00, but it didn't bother me much and the tires were not showing any wear on the sides (I rotate 'em myself). I finally figured I should get it corrected. My 'original' dealer aligned it and said all was good. But, it pulled even more to the left and now to steer straight you had to steer right about 2 degrees. But, it was within the alignment tolerances and they wouldn't correct it. That was the last business I gave them. I took it to another dealer and they straightened (truely!) it out. All specs were dead on. What a difference a degree or tenth of an inch makes in alignments!
If you don't have any luck with the dealer, I've heard that Hunter alignment and balancing equipment is very reputable.
-Brian
Doug - I suspect you are right about the fogs. With what Ken at Susquehanna told me and what I could see at in the Light Tunnel at Hella I think the fogs with my high beams will fit my bill with a nice broad lighting pattern... for deer.
If all goes well pulling out the OEM fog lamps on my 01 GT I will go with the Hella MicroDEs:
http://www.susquehanna.com/susq/hella/microde.htm
bit
Thanks
Alan
http://www.seriousauto.com/electrical/horns/horns.html
and I have been happy with them. (though hellas might be even better) no harness was needed 'cause we already have a relay and 2 horns.
-steve-v
bit
As for horns check out the Hella horns@ Susquehana. I have a set of the triple trumpets on my Trooper and they are great!
-mike
bit
The Hella Micro DE looks really nice. It would be great it there were a matching driving lamp.
Jim
I'm going for it. Going to pull the OEMs and install the DEs in their place. Once I get them adjusted I will get the L mesh and see if it will work as a cover for the hole and a surround for the DE.
bit
-mike
dassub: Pam at iSR Subaru will import just about any part, but it'll cost you.
Alland: yeah, you should have a 1 year adjustment period for things like that, all free.
I swapped my horns for a Highway Blaster (I think FIAMM makes it), but it's no louder than stock. It does, however, "honk" instead of "beeping", and I got the low pitch noise, which doesn't sound as wimpy.
-juice
Ed
-mike
I'm happy with the progress I'm making; trusting the car more and picking up confidence along the way. Ya, those Toyo RA-1s are pretty amazing helping out in the confidence arena.
-Dave
-juice
-juice