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Subaru Outback VDC

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Comments

  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Don, subaru have a cd player which is designed to work with your existing am-fm cassette but it is not cheap, check it out at your local dealers, as regarding speakers any aftermarket speaker will be an improvement on the junk you have in your car now, factory speakers are usually the cheapest junk the manufacturer can install to reproduce sound that they can get away with, unless they are part of a very high end system like the Macintosh system that is in the outback VDC,so if you want improved sound quality buy good aftermarket speakers, hope this answers your questions.
    Cheers Pat.
  • dniehusdniehus Member Posts: 83
    Re: 102

    Coincidentally I was just going to ask a question about the VDC sound system. I've seen lots of complaints about the cheap speakers in the OB Ltd and LL Bean. Does the Macintosh sound system in the VDC also include premium speakers? I note in the brochure that the sound system includes a single disk CD player. Is it possible (or even advisable) to get the optional in-dash 6 disk CD unit? By the way, the sound system in the LL Bean is a Clarion (per a recent email response from SOA). Sure would be nice if SOA would use something like BOSE or JBL. Is the Clarion unit itself acceptable in the LL Bean; only the speakers that are garbage? (I'm debating between the LL Bean and the VDC.) Thanks. Don
  • jim235jim235 Member Posts: 47
    A thread on another site states that all of the new H-6 Bean's & VDC's have a defective ECM (engine control module). The defect makes starting difficult or impossible in cold weather. The problem seems to usually occur when it's colder than plus 20-30 degrees and the car has been outside for a few hours. Subaru supposedly has acknowledged the problem, and is working on developing a new ECM module. The new module won't be available until this summer at the earliest.
    A technical team from Subaru Japan was just here (Fairbanks Alaska) for about two weeks running cold weather engine tests on the LLBean. After reading that thread I assume the tests are related to the starting problem.
    I had planned to factory order a VDC this week but I'm now thinking of waiting until the problems have been worked out since winters here usually well below zero. Does anyone have any more information on this?
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    I recently had to decide between the VDC and the LLBean. I chose the LLBean, though I wish I had bought the VDC. The reasons for not buying the VDC were mostly due to the insurance cost on that vehicle....For some reason, insurance companies charge $100/6month on the DC than on the Bean.... don't understand why, they claim it has higher estimated repair costs. Besides the insurance, the other reason was the higher cost of the vehicle itself.

    As for the audio, my Bean came with the sub woofer and the 6-cd changer. I am not going to say that the stereo sounds as good as the McIntosh, but it sure does not sound bad. I have cranked up some CDs and it sounds really good!

    BTW Around here in Atlanta, the dealers are not willing to deal. I searched all over the Southeast for the Bean in the color I wanted (with the options I wanted) and none of the dealers that had one wanted to trade with my dealer. Getting them for invoice or below is just not happening around here.

    I am happy with the Bean... and I will probably keep it for a long time.

    -r
  • robnisrobnis Member Posts: 78
    Thanks for the info on the serious flaw on the Subaru. I have been debating getting it or the Acura TL. The prime reason I was considering the Subaru VDC was for the extra traction. Now with the serious design flaw in the ECM, you helped steer me to the TL. Thanks!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jim: do you have a link to that thread? Several Subaru Crew folks own them and none have had that complaint.

    Don: I'd take your favorite CDs and ask to sample both. I'm sure sound quality will vary depending on the type of music you like. Listen to find out which one sounds better to you.

    -juice
  • jim235jim235 Member Posts: 47
    Juice, this is the link to the thread about the defective ECM and cold starting problems:


    http://groups.google.com/groups? hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=75a607d67ff606e3&seekd=932236803#932236803


    I had to break it into 2 sections since you cannot post a "word" greater than 100 characters long. I also contacted the person who started the thread for any additional information. The only information was that this summer was the very earliest that his dealer expected that it could be fixed.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting that he thought it ran better on regular unleaded.

    I wonder if that dealer is right about them all needing to be replaced.

    -juice
  • crawdadkingcrawdadking Member Posts: 46
    ocivframe you scared me on that insurance thing so I immediately called my company (USAA) and asked for a quote on the LTD, LLB, and VDC. Was quoted exactly the same price for all three, which was $219/six months full coverage $500 deductible. (maybe because I am 61 and it's my wifes car) They know we can't see good enough to go very fast. That's what I tell em anyway. :-)

    Now I can worry about that ECM thingy. Maybe it won't be a problem since we rarely get below freezing here on the coast of Oregon. Oh well is will surely be under warranty and will probably be a recall this summer.

    It may be because I am interested in a Soob but I swear there are more OB's than Honda Accords around here. And they all seem to be fairly new. Why it's like a paradigm shift is in progress. Won't be able to find our car in the Costco parking lot. People do gravitate to the most reliable models so this must be a good choice, Right?

    Guy
  • jim235jim235 Member Posts: 47
    Juice, I just spoke w/the local service department here in Fairbanks Alaska and they are unaware of any cold weather starting problem w/the H6. The only starting problem they encountered was when the vehicle was sitting at minus 20-30 degrees and was not plugged in. (Which is a typical problem with most vehicles at these temperatures). So - I am not quite sure what is what. We've had probably the warmest winter here in recorded history, but still temperatures have usually been below the plus 20-30's where the problems were noted to occur. But we also don't have many H6's here and maybe they all are garaged or plugged in when not used for extended periods.
  • outbackguruoutbackguru Member Posts: 25
    What fun reading all of your comments. I just scanned the last hundred or so. I'm a Subaru sales manager so I love seeing what the public thinks. I can tell you as an Outback owner and someone that has been selling them for 5 years that the whole line should be considered by anyone wanting a very versatile, fun to drive, safe and reliable vehicle. No matter what your preferences you should be able to find some Outback to satisfy. On the H-6 models, the car is not FAST but feels SO SMOOTH with all the power you need. If this car isn't fast enough you are looking in the wrong category. (my opinion) The H-4 will satisfy most people, I have no complaint with mine, I drive 90 down the Freeway regularly. For those wondering if the VDC is worth it, it is if you have the $$$. It really performs when the weather turns foul and here in Texas we just play dodge car on the frwy. If music is your thing the Macintosh is tough to beat.
  • kkelleherkkelleher Member Posts: 9
    I just turned 1000 miles on my VDC. I LOVE THIS CAR! I wanted to comment on a couple of things I've read here. First, I too have experienced the squeaky brake thiing, but only first thing in the morning as I back out of the garage. After that, silence. I've also experienced hard starting on cold mornings. I live in SE PA, so it doesn't get THAT cold...I just give the gas pedal a little tap, and she starts fine.

    I installed a set of Michelin Arctic Alpin's on the car, just in time for a small snow storm (6"). Since then, we've had a little bit of everything in terms of winter conditions around here and I've had no problems getting around. Obviously, AWD, VDC, ABS, traction control and snow tires are no substitute for common sense, but when I have to get somewhere, or want to get home, I'm glad I have this rig.

    Kevin
  • dniehusdniehus Member Posts: 83
    The McIntosh system is awesome. (Finally test drove the VDC yesterday.) I'd like the convenience of a 6 Disc CD Changer in the dash. It's clearlly listed in the brochure and on SOA's website as an option for the VDC. However, Fitzgerald (in MD where I will likely buy) says it can't be used with the McIntosh. Another dealer told me no problem. Does anybody know the definitive answer?

    Thanks.

    Don
  • dniehusdniehus Member Posts: 83
    I sent an email to SOA this morning and already received a response. (I have always found SOA to be very responsive. Many other auto companies don't even make it easy for you to send email, let alone respond promptly.)

    Regrettably the answer (for now) is NO it is not feasible to connect a 6 disc unit. Actually apparently McIntosh does have a 6 disc unit, but it has not been tested for use in the OB VDC. Even if ultimately determined to be compatible, it would be a remote unit (e.g., rear cargo area) -- not in dash. Personally I think I'd rather have the slight inconvenience of a single disc dash unit than the major inconveience of a remote changer (which is what I currently have in my '98 Forester; what a pain!). SOA (appropriately) also raised concerns about the possible effect on warranty coverage for installation of after market components.

    Oh well. At least I now have an answer although it certainly wasn't the response that I had hoped for. Other thoughts?
  • ericindc1ericindc1 Member Posts: 2
    I just got a VDC two weeks ago. Great car. I test drove both LLB and VDC. LLB's suspension is to soft for me.

    My question is, what pressure do you put in your tires. The recommended pressure is 30 psi in the front and 29 psi in the back. I have 32 psi in the front and the tires still sags/bulges. Is this normal?
  • dniehusdniehus Member Posts: 83
    One of the key features of the OB VDC is the vehicle skid control (for those of you still shopping). The Toyota Highlander has this as an OPTION (as well as other generally higher end vehicles). The Edmunds Town Hall board on the Highlander has a couple of interesting posts on the VSC feature which include video clips. In particular, see Edmunds post HL #790. Viewing the clip requires the Windows Media Player (available free download). It's a demo prepared by Continental Teves. I don't know the manufacturer for the OB VDC system, but I presume it's similar. Basically this demonstrates strongly the value of VSC. For me at least, this ended the debate about whether the extra $$ for the VDC compared to the LL Bean was worth it. Post HL #1044 includes several video clips -- interestingly enough prepared by Subaru for the OB VDC! Unfortunately they are HUGE files. I bailed out, so I haven't viewed them. But, if you have major bandwidth, it might be worth a viewing.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    As I understand it, VDC is a home-grown system by Subaru. From what I've read, it's a little more advanced than your typical traction control system since it first tries to send power to the wheels with traction before it begins applying brakes to the wheels that are slipping. I think (someone please verify) that with other systems the TCS simply tries to brake the wheel with the least traction.

    Ken
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    What about the reference to a 6- and 12-disc changer in the McIntosh section of the owners manual??? The McI can act as a head unit for a changer, but which one?
  • dniehusdniehus Member Posts: 83
    SOA did indicate that McIntosh has a 6 disc changer. However, it has not been evaluated for use in the OB VDC. (We know how cautious SOA is.) Moreover, SOA indicated that if it were approved for use, it would be a REMOTE location -- probably in the rear cargo area. SOA's concerns were with running the wires and vibration control. Note that I had asked SOA specifically about an in dash 6 disc unit which is clearly listed in the OB LLB/VDC brochure and on SOA's website (i.e., go to SOA website, build configurations and under VDC there's an area showing available accessories, including the 6 disc in dash CD changer). SOA acknowledged and apologized for the misleading/wrong information and indicated that they would correct that information as soon as possible.

    Not sure why the space below the McI unit can't be used for a CD changer and wired directly (rather than remote location). Good grief, it seems that technology for in dash CD units is well established. Why can't SOA and McI figure this out? Good grief! Too bad that traction control isn't an option on the LLB. I'd gladly forgo the McI, get an in dash unit on the LLB and save some money. But, once again, SOA gives consumers too few options.
  • j_walkerj_walker Member Posts: 99
    I think the McIntosh stereo looks out of place in the dash. Anyone know if SOA plans to better integrate its look with the rest of the dash?

    John
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    I wish I had stumbled across this and other message boards prior to buying my Bean Outback...Right now I am wondering if I did the right thing.

    I am a long time Honda owner.... never had given any thoughts to owning anything but a Honda. Then I drove the new H6 models and couldn't resist the idea of a vehicle that drove so well yet had a 6 cyl, AWD, and it was a leather bound wagon to boot!. Honda doesn't have anything that comes close (well maybe the MDX...but that is a different price point). So, I drove both the VDC and the Bean models.

    I chose the Bean over the VDC for two reasons, although I would have preferd the VDC. I chose the Bean because it was less expensive and because for whatever reason (they won't really give me good reason) my insurance company...Alstate...charges $110 more every 6mo. for insuring the car. So, facing a huge car payment (hadn't had one in 2.5 years) and a wife nagging me about spending $30k on a Subaru, I chose the Bean. BTW I got mine with the spoiler, rear diff protector, 6-cd changer, subwoofer, cargo net, and cargo mat for right at 30k out the door. It was almost impossible to find too, my dealer had to call all the other dealerships within 300mi to find one that was willing to trade with him...the one I got was actually not even at the dealership yet when they worked out the trade!

    I drove both the VDC and the Bean but found no real differences in the way they drove, yet I see posts here where people say the suspension is softer and the steering is over boosted on the Bean vs the VDC. Is this really true or is it just perception? If it is really true that the steering is over boosted, then can that be tuned? If so how?

    My other concern about having gone with the Subaru is the incredible amount of posts regarding problems with Legacys....stuff like bad transmissions, bad propeller shafts, bad suspension components, oil leaks.... etc. My 92 Honda Accord had over 154000miles on it and was still on the original clutch. I had replaced the timing belt and CV boots at 90k and the oil pan gasket at 120k and the brake master cyl at 130k...other than that, it had been really reliable and always ran quietly and smoothly. So why all these serious problems with Legacys? Does the same hold true for the Outbacks? Am I facing the same problems with my $30k Bean?

    In a previous post, I mentioned that I am happy with my Bean and I really am, but, after reading all the posts about how much tighter the VDC is (both suspension and steering) plus all the problems, I wonder if I did the right thing!

    Does anyone know if the suspension and power steering rates are truly different? Are there any other Bean owners out there?

    Oh, one last question...is Savanna Green the same as Wintergreen? When did that start?

    Thanks in advance for any help or opinions you might have.

    -r
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    The McIntosh "looks like a McIntosh" not your usual car stereo. If you look at home stereos, McIntoshes have a very distinct "look" to them. Apparently part of the deal with McI was that McI required that it "look" like a McI.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Robert,

    I haven't read anywhere that the VDC gets a different suspension than the Bean or other OBs.

    You should feel good about the Bean. You had a goal of keeping it under $30K and you were able to get a very nicely appointed AWD wagon with a brand new 6-cylinder engine!

    While VDC is very cool and probably will help in extreme conditions, don't forget that all the Subaru AWD loyalty you see here has been built up by the "standard" systems. The AWD system in your Bean may not be the latest revision, but it will run circles around any 2WD vehicle. Just try driving around the snow and you'll be grining from ear to ear.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The suspension and steering are the same on the Bean and VDC.

    I think you did well. The Bean is a bargain, period. Nothing else can match the space, traction, power, and price combination it offers. Nothing. You should feel no remorse at all.

    While Hondas are fine vehicles, so are Subarus. Consumer Reports ranks Subaru #7 among all manufacturers in reliability, ahead of Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, BMW, and Mazda, as well as all domestic manufacturers. In fact, only Honda, Toyota, and Nissan (plus their luxury nameplates) edged out Subaru, so technically they are 4th.

    Eric: 32 psi should be enough. The suspension may be a bit soft for your tastes. You may want to consider a Plus One wheel/tire application.

    -juice
  • jon54jon54 Member Posts: 1
    I believe what many owners think is a brake squeal is actually the power steering pump. The noise goes away as soon as the fluid heats up. (Usually lasts no more than a few econds). It is covered in the owners's manual and is considered normal in cold weather. I've owned one since December and I've had none of the "bugaboos" I've heard discussed. No starting problems. (I'm talking Adirondack winter btw). No windshield noise/No wipers lifting. The H6 while you're definately not going to see it at any NHRA events is super smooth and has the mid-range pulling power (Where ALL auto tranny 4 bangers are worthless {especially w/AC on} to get you onto a freeway in less time than it takes to read a short novel. Its snow/ice performance is phenominal...You can leave a light almost as if you were on dry pavement. Its uncanny to intentionally oversteer it and see the VDC active light come on, then feel the rear end "tighten-up" and pop you back straight again!!..I recently worked for a BMW dealer and I can assure you the fit/finish smoothness and dirveability are easily equivalent to their 3&5 series and their exceptionally smooth straight 6's.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just read the C&D comparo in the new issue, and while the VDC didn't place well, it was the ONLY vehicle that did not crash into a snow bank and require a tow truck to get it out.

    Seems like they didn't get their priorities straight. Shouldn't the only vehicle that did not crash win? ;-)

    I know why - they don't own the cars. They also aren't paying for repairs out of their pockets.

    -juice
  • robnisrobnis Member Posts: 78
    What was the VDC up against? What were the other vehicles? Why did the Subaru do so poorly?
  • robnisrobnis Member Posts: 78
    I would also add, what were the top three cars and how poorly did the VDC finish. My lease runs out this summer and I am picking up data in my evaluation. Thanks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They picked it like this:

    Audi A4 Avant 1.8T 5-speed manual
    BMW 325xi wagon 5-speed manual
    VW Passat 4Motion automatic
    VDC (auto, the only way it comes)

    But you really have to read the text of the comparo to get the jist of it.

    They said the Audi was actually the worst in the snow, but said they would change the tires. How they could pick it the winner in a snow test beats me. They said ground clearance was nil and they wrecked into a snow bank with it. They like small, sporty wagons, and manuals trannies, so it won. I guess crashing other people's cars is fun.

    The Bimmer was 2nd because it's also small and sporty and has a manual. Never mind that people buy wagons to haul stuff (else they'd pick a sedan) and that comparing a manual to an auto just isn't fair. It also ate the snow bank for lunch.

    The VeeDub hit 60 in 8.1s, compared to an earlier 4Motion which took a whopping 9.6s. I don't know if they got a good sample this time, or a bad sample last time, but that makes a world of difference. It also made close acquaintance with the snow bank (friendly snow bank!), and a tow truck was needed to yank it out.

    The VDC took 8.8s, making it the slowest in the test. It got 3mpg better than the VW, though, and the ground clearance and space advantages were not really factored in. The VDC did not have a kill switch and they listed that as a DISADVANTAGE(!), despite the fact that the Doofuses behind the wheel wrecked every car without VDC on.

    The thing is they were looking for a sports-sedan alternative, and the Soob for that is the Legacy GT, or heck, the WRX sedan, even.

    I don't get Car & Driver any more. Last month they picked the Escape and Tribute as their favorite SUV in another snow test, despite the fact that they openly admitted it too was the WORST in the snow! What gives?

    -juice
  • glxwagon4moglxwagon4mo Member Posts: 121
    The other thing to mention about the performance in the snow was that the first test - which the Subie did the best in was with stock tires. The Audi and Bimmer both were sporting the "sports package" that meant "Z" rated tires. The Passat wore its stock Michelin All-seasons. I don't recall what the VDC wears -- All-seasons or M/S ? The second part of the test was putting the same brand of dedicated snow tires on all of the cars. Not surprisingly, it dramatically improved the handling of all of the cars, particularly the Audi and BMW. I don't think any of them hit the snow banks during the second run (again, I don't have the issue in front of me right now).

    The bottom line of the test -- as mentioned by many throughout these forums, AWD in snow is only as good as the tires that you're running on.

    George
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    was clearly biased towards the "sporting" aspects of the vehicles involved. We all know Subaru did not produce a "sports" wagon with the VDC, so the results shouldn't be a surprise.

    They did "hint" at doing a rematch which would include the WRX wagon, however. Hmmm... based on C&D's criteria, I wonder where that would end up in the rankings? :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    George: the VDC wears Firestone Wildernerness tires, P225/60HR16. Funny thing is most owners complain they are rather lame in snow! The Michelins from the '99 (XW4 I think?) and earlier models were actually better in snow.

    Now that you mention the Michelins, I'm surprised that the Passat wasn't better than the Outback in the snow. Guess it depends on which Michelins are on there.

    Bob: I agree that's how they judged the cars, but it was supposed to be a test in the snow, even the title said so! Oh well.

    -juice
  • petew3petew3 Member Posts: 18
    hahaha....guess I'll add to this saga. First of all, I love my VDC & have found nothing to complain about...EXCEPT: the reticence & reluctance to be out front on the Mc stereo on the part of both McIntosh & SOA. I've been beating my head against an apparent technical information ban for a couple of weeks now. Exhaustive net searches and contacting both McIntosh and Subaru have left me thinking that the thing is top-secret. Neither seem able to provide model numbers and specs for the components and neither seem clear on what the issues are with respect to the compatibility of McIntosh 6-disk changers. Someone at SOA is currently supposedly researching for me & will send some specs (maybe). Geezzzzz.... it ain't rocket science yall!!!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There may not be model numbers - wasn't it a custom design for Subaru?

    Drop an e-mail to Patti Mickel (pmickel@subaru.com), our friendly SoA rep, and ask if she can help expedite the question.

    She browses this board, and has been a great asset. Tell her juice sent ya.

    -juice

    PS One more thought - have you asked Crutchfield?
  • mslouisemslouise Member Posts: 3
    Hi all,

    I've been following and enjoying this discussion for a while now. I am in the process of selling my '91 Acura Integra after which I will be buying a Subaru Outback VDC. I'm very excited about this. It will be my first new car. I've got a question for all of you who have spent time in the front seats of the Outback with the seat heaters on: do they ever feel too warm for you? My boyfriend has a 2000 Outback Limited and while I enjoy having my tush nice and warm for the first few minutes, after that it invariably causes my rear end to be uncomfortably warm. Not hot, just a wee bit too warm. The heaters don't exactly offer a myriad of settings, so I haven't been able to adjust it to a more comfy level. Am I the only one? My boyfriend doesn't have this problem. This will not change my decision to buy the VDC- I'm mostly just curious. Anyway, I'll hopefully be driving around in my very own brand new Outback within a month or two and then I can monkey around with it myself. :) Thanks!

    Melissa
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Just recieved my C&D issue in the mail. I see what you all were rantnig about the way they did the test.

    I agree that the test was quite biased towards "sport" sedans. Although they did say that the VDC Wagon was probably the best suited for snow use in stock form (and the safest) they kept dinging it for the VDC being too active or for it's softer suspension set up -- no kidding, it's not a sport wagon!

    I'm kind of interested how Subaru will take this latest comparo, however. Maybe it'll be a stronger vote for a GT wagon with an H6 mated to a 5-speed with a VDC disable switch!

    Ken
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Since we considered 3 of the 4 cars they tested I have lots of opnions:
    1) VW Passat GLX V6 4Motion. Its the car we wanted. I thought it was the best driver and the most quiet at 70mph. BUT they were selling for OVER MSRP.
    2) Audi 1.8T Avant Quattro. My uncle got the 2.8 instead of the VDC and after driving his car for a while I agree. So why did they test the 1.8T here instead of the 2.8 auto? For what the BMW tops out at they could have tested the A6. I dont get it. The reason we did not get the Audi is that my dog does not fit very well in the back and we could not afford the A6.
    3) Subaru Outback H6-3.0 VDC. Its a decent effort but as I have said before....its either not making 212hp or the car weighs more than stated. The gearing is not all that tall and the high torque number stated should easily be able to push through. The LL Bean is a much better deal and the OB Ltd. (the one we have) is, in my opnion, the best deal. When the H6 is a $500-750 option it will be worth the money. The VDC system is too "big brother" for my tastes even if its good for me. When I test drove the Bean (and now the VDC) it was clearly the slowest of the bunch and was no more fun to drive than our Ltd.
    4) BMW 325xi Sport Wagon. If I could rank it lower I would. Um, yea, I was facinated by this car after the St. Louis auto show......and then I priced it out and drove it (I was able to find one near Cherry Hill, NJ. It was $37.5k (not loaded)and that price was not going to move. The 325 and 330 sedans (RWD) are much better deals not to mention at least 2k less than their AWD counterparts. The wagon is about the size of an Impreza and felt a little smaller. Most BMWs are overpriced but at least you usually get the best driver in the class. You dont get that with this car. The car feels like it should be $28k loaded not $38k. AND I am a fan of BMW!!! My opnion is that the 325xi is just a very poor effort for the price range.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Melissa: I think there are two heat settings, hi and low. Well, plus off! :-)

    Ken: the title of the article was "Wagons North", which kind of peeves me. They said the winner (A4 1.8T Avant 5 speed) was the worst in the snow! Same with the Escape in last month's test!

    The Audi and Bimmer didn't have leather, and the Audi also didn't have the stability control option. Still, at least the Audi has room in the price to add those options - the Bimmer was in another price class completely.

    -juice
  • mslouisemslouise Member Posts: 3
    Juice: Thanks for the input. In my brighter moments, I am in fact able to discern that there are two settings on the seat heaters- strangely, I just can't seem to locate the setting for "swedish massage" ;). I must have a temperature sensitive rear-end, 'cause neither of the settings are quite low enough for me. Oh well. :) Anyway, I appreciate the response and will take a look at the settings on the 2001 after I buy it.

    Now that I've got my little '91 Integra all cleaned up to sell, I've been getting sentimental over the idea of letting it go. Well, I WAS, until I went over a large pothole and realized for the billionth time that driving over anything larger than, say, the average dishrag in my Integra is a frightening experience. Ah, I can't wait to have suspension and clearance. Wish me luck selling my extremely cute and extremely low to the ground Integra!

    All best,
    Melissa
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you find the massage setting, let us know? ;-)

    Try CarMax for the sale. They'll buy your car even if you don't buy from them, and I've heard they offer fair prices for it.

    -juice
  • rockypaulrockypaul Member Posts: 104
    I have a 2000 OB ltd (my second one) and a 2001 BMW 525ita sport wagon.

    my thoughts on the vdc: only an idiot would consider a $32k Subaru when for the same money a BMW 325ix can be had.(and I like Subbies!)

    Further my BMW goes better on ice than the Subaru. The only advantage the ob has is in staring off in bumper high snow

    The bmw skid control is by far the best i've had; better than lexus, mb( including my ML320

    Read report in Car + Driver April 2001 for more..
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    VDC street prices are under $30k. The Bimmer C&D tested was $35k and didn't even have leather, and dealers don't discout nearly as much. Plus the 3 series is a lot smaller.

    Heck, the 5 series is still considered a compact!

    Bimmers are fine cars, don't get me wrong, but let's compare apples to apples.

    -juice
  • crawdadkingcrawdadking Member Posts: 46
    You were way to generous in your comparison. I to like BMW's and thought after first looking at base prices that it might be the way to go. Here is reality: A careful comparison of features gives us a VDC for 29k most anywhere. I dressed the bimmer the same and it comes to $40,525 MSRP and the dealer I went to just looked at me when I asked him what I could get the car for. Finally he said, "the price is right there on the window, what part of the sticker do you not understand". Oh and by the way, if you don't like black or red you have to pay $475 to get it painted. I'm not even going to get into arrogant salesmen, cost of maintenance, target for vandalism, and lower reliability factor. This is not apples and oranges, more like apples and watermelons.

    Just a humble opinion from an idiot who is buying a VDC.

    Guy
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Usually I am pretty critical of Subaru but I have to chime in here.....

    What it comes down to is that the 325ix $30k car that people are paying $40k for. The VDC is a $30k ($32k MSRP) car that people are paying under $30k for. So there is no way this idiot would get the 325ix over the VDC. No way. If I could pick either for free I would get the 325ix and sell it immediately and then get an A6 Avant well equipped.

    I love BMWs (LOVE THEM!!!) but the 325ix is one of their worst efforts. Even worse than the base 318. At least the 318 was cheap.

    Come to think of it, if the 325ix (even with some options) and my wife OB Ltd. 2.5L were the same price I would STILL get the OB. I expect a lot more performance from BMW for $35-40k. I dont expect much performance from a Subaru at $27k out the door completely loaded. In the case of the VDC $31k with the alarm and some other frivilous extras.

    Put another way I can get an S4 Avant for near $44k including the markup and a few options. Priced out the 325ix cracks $41k. S4 Avant -vs- 325ix......recipe for a butt kicking.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    but if you're talking about the BMW 325 wagon, can you say WRX sportwagon. Come to think of it, I can put on 17" wheel/tires and still come out ahead in the value factor. Now if you want to talk performance....oh why bother....:-)

    Stephen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In terms of size, they are a closer match. Ever sat in the back seat of a 3 series?

    -juice
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Exactly, 3 series is small and in size compares favorably to the WRX (heck, the whole Impreza line). I think somebody else addressed this, but the one thing that really bothers me about BMW (and to some extent, VW & Audi) dealers is their arrogance! I can't stand that. Oh.....give me my WRX so that I can show the Bimmer dealers how I can leave arrogance behind in 6 secs or less!

    Stephen
  • mslouisemslouise Member Posts: 3
    Hi all,

    Just looking for a little input on my upcoming car purchase. I am only a car person insofar as that I drive one, so please keep in mind that whatever I buy, I won't want to worry about adding modifications, other than maybe getting better tires. Don't get me wrong, I like driving them plenty, just not monkeying around with their inner parts. I decided that I wanted to buy a Subaru based on the following criteria:

    I live in Utah and want something that's safe in the snow.
    I want a wagon, no two ways about it.
    The only car companies that I'd really consider purchasing from are Honda, Subaru and Toyota and of those, only Subaru makes wagons that I like at all right now.

    So, it seems like Subaru is the way to go. The only question now is whether I want to buy a new Outback VDC or go with a different wagon in the Subaru lineup, such as the WRX. I don't really need the off-road capabilities that the higher clearance of the Outback offers, nor the cargo space. So it might be nice to opt for the more sporty WRX performance but I've never even seen a WRX in person. Before making any final decisions, I'll make certain to see one and hopefully drive one. In the meantime, I've got some questions for you folks.

    Without modifications other than getting nicer tires, would you recommend the WRX?
    Any thoughts on whether Subaru will ever make leather seats an option on the WRX? I understand that the majority of WRX buyers need the extra bolstering action of the cloth seats, but given the fact that I pretty much never corner very fast, I'd kind of like leather seats. Would it be silly to put aftermarket leather seats in a WRX?
    Does anyone have an idea of how the McIntosh stereo in the VDC compares with whatever the stereo in the WRX is?

    I'll appreciate any thoughts you all have on this topic. :)

    Thanks,
    Melissa
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    on the WRX -vs- the 325ix wagon. Its too late!!!

    WRX listed between 5.8-6.4 sec to 60mph at $23k.

    325ix is AT BEST a full second slower and $10k more. Did I mention for that price you dont get cruise control?

    Give me the WRX and $10k and I will give you a low 4sec 400hp wagon that will steal your lunch money and make you beg for mercy.

    Granted I think the WRX is ugly but thats an opnion. There is no opnion that can save the anemic performance of the 325ix at over $40k when equipped to the same levels as the other cars in the C&D article. I think the 325ix looks great. Beautiful BMW style and super clean lines. BUT at FOURTY THOUSAND DOLLARS it better go like mad.....like the Audi S4 Avant. The S4 Avant is still the best super wagon in the US until the Vizon hits the streets. That is until they restyle the WRX (so it looks like a baby GT wagon) and get me a limited version with leather, seat heaters, power seats, moon roof, and all the goodies that wimpy people like me want.
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    Here is my take on the Car and Driver article.
    I would not touch a VW with a ten foot pole. Know 4 people with new VW's. Two are filing lemon lawsuits. The other two have had MANY problems.
    Audis are nothing more than expensive VW's. They do look good at the mall though. The BMW is small and expensive. Getting one loaded like the Subaru is expensive. The subie is not without faults. The car is SLOW for it 212 HP. You have to rev the wee out of it and then it doesn't accelerate
    much better than my 5-speed 2000 Outback. Lets face it though, these vehicles appeal to different
    people. The Subie is a good alternative to a SUV.
    It has some off-road potential. The others are wagons with all wheel drive to make them drivable
    in inclement weather. BMW's and Audi's are status
    symbols and many (not all) people interested in them would not consider a Subaru no matter how good it was.
    GAM
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