Subaru Outback VDC

otis123 · May 2001

Took delivery of my wife's black LLBean Outback w/ subwoofer/amp on 2/1/01. (Sold my beloved '92 Camry LE with 161,000 miles to a friend for a bargain $3K and took over my wife's Accord - I'm a nice guy).

H6 started out w/ 19-21 mpg, then saw an increase at around 2,800 miles (@ 1st oil change) to 21-23mpg. Best so far was two weeks ago at around 4,300 miles - 23.9mpg. Mostly parkway driving @ 70-80mph on Taconic State Parkway in Westchester Co. NY. Hope mpg gets a little better...

Love the car. Solid, smooth, powerful, and comfortable (love the way the Boxer engine doesn't dip the car when cornering). Definitely grows on you as you stop babying it, and start to test its limits. Drove the H4 Limited, but found the H6 to be a completely different car. Also drove the 6 cyl. Passat (grew up in Volkswagens) but don't like to sit in service departments (did that keeping a Rabbit alive in graduate school). Nothing else really competes with the H6 Outback when looking for a refined, near-luxury AWD wagon that you can drive out of the dealer's lot for $30K...

Greg - Howdy neighbor!

ateixeira · May 2001

They aren't just rumors - the 2002 will have an off switch. But I'd leave it on if I had VDC. If you don't want it the LL Bean is your car.

Congrats Otis.

-juice

robnis · May 2001

In addition to the on/off VDC switch, there will be a change of tires as the dealer told me they are going to Bridgestone Potenzas. How do you people think these will compare to the Goodyear tires on the 2001 VDC?

mtnshopper · May 2001

I sent a message to Subaru, mentioning the early morning starting problem I've experienced, and asked if my LL Bean would be part of the ECM recall. I was told I should make an appointment with an authorized Subaru dealership who will determine if my vehicle is a candidate for the modified ECM. I guess Subaru isn't identifying the problem vehicles by VIN alone.
Becky

jim235 · May 2001

The message that Subaru sent you is the standard message they send to everyone who asks about the problem. Unfortunately since they have not provided their dealers w/a service bulletin on this problem, your dealer will have no idea what to look for or what to do. (It is not the same ECM problem which occurred in the 2000 year model and for which there is a service bulletin). Subaru Customer service told me that you can't identify whether your car has the problem by VIN number, but that if you experienced the problem than you had it and if you did not experience the problem you did not have it. They told me that if you experience the problem to call them and have them call your dealer to authorize the replacement; if you don't your local dealer will simply tell you that they know of no problem w/the ECM and that they can't replace it under warranty w/o authorization from Subaru - and you will have wasted a trip to your dealer. Subaru will probably also have to send your dealer the new ECM as the new one is not readily available (this is supposed to take about a week). This information is based on numerous calls and email messages w/Subaru and calls and visits to my local dealer.

For some reason Team Subaru has never provided any information on this cold starting issue whenever it has been mentioned on any of the Edmunds Subaru threads. I assume that they are trying not to admit publicly that there is any problem to save a few dollars. Jim

mtnshopper · May 2001

Thanks for the info Jim. I contacted the service department at my local dealer. I made an appointment to take my Bean in next week. I was dreading the call, but the service department seems to be helpful and aware of the ECU problem. In addition to the cold start problem, my vehicle has been shifting a little roughly compared to the demo I first drove. And there's a gradual incline I have to drive every day where I lose a lot of power and the wagon shifts awkwardly back and forth a bunch of times. It's very annoying. They are going to check out both problems, although I don't think they will be able to recreate the cold start problem now. Mine is definitely related to lower temperatures and not just sitting overnight. It started perfectly at 55F this morning, 40F is another story. They said the ECU and the TCU work closely together and rough shifting is often solved by clearing the ECU's memory. He said the computer has a memory of how the car is driven and can, sort of, develop bad habits if it is repeatedly driven short distances, as may happen at the factory and dealership before the car is purchased and driven normally. Sounds curious, but I'll see what they find next week.
Becky

ateixeira · May 2001

Goodyear? I thought they all had Firestones in 2001? The Bridgestones are probably more pavement-oriented.

I'd let the dealer worry about the ECU, and then escalate to Patti if they don't seem responsive (or if they are not getting enough help from SoA).

-juice

feilo · May 2001

Question for oclvframe re. your post #273 of 308 Reply to tinoman1 (post 263).

Would you recommend the dealer in Atlanta you got our LL Bean from? I am relocating to Atlanta in the Summer and have been contemplating (procrastinating actually) on stumping up for an OB for sometime now ... This move will do it!

Appreciate your input.

Feilo.

drew_ · May 2001

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oclvframe · May 2001

Feilo:

I used Ed Voyles for my purchase. I dealt with Dean Donnel and Herman Jones. Both are great to work with. They currently have 9 Beans in stock (per thier inventory search on sub's website). I got a screaming deal on the car too!

As for service...I didn't get the warm fuzzies from Voyle's service department, so, I go to Troncalli for that. The mechanic, Gary, is a long time Subaru mechanic and is really into his cars and toys making him the type of guy I'd want working on my car (not just some grease monkey that knows something about cars).

Good luck. BTW, what part of town are you planning on living in?

-r

pattim3 · May 2001

NOTE: The fuse will NOT disengate the VDC on 2K1. I'm still waiting for information on the ability of the on/off switch to be installed on the 2K1 VDC.

Please?? If you have an issue, get it to a dealer. They will get you an ECU by calling it into our tech. group.

We are still gather information on the issue. Once we have it, we can provide more details. Subaru, historically, does not like to throw something out there (service bulletins, etc.) unless they have a COMPLETE understanding on the issue.

To gather data, your dealers file reports with our technical group and the all of the data is looked at - better sure than making an issue more confusing.

I know our conservative position can be confusing to some, but we have VERY thorough engineers.

Thanks for your patience.

Patti

theob · May 2001

Thanks for the update and clarification on the VDC fuse!

If you have chance, could you query those thorough engineers about trailer brake wiring & controller recommendations? (See posting 866 in Modifications )

Thanks,

Theo

feilo · May 2001

Reply to oclvframe, Post #311
Thanks for the feedback, Squire. I will take this under serious consideration.
As for candidate residential locale, I will be based in Newnan (well its kinda Atlanta I guess), so its probably PTC where I am told all the Yankee transplants to that part of the world end up ...

Thanks again for your info and I will keep you posted as and when I "do the deed".
Feilo.

theob · May 2001

Just wondering what other people are experiencing for max volume levels before the speakers start to distort?

When playing "Horowitz At Home" or a Debussy it seems like the distortion becomes prominent when the volume knob is turned about 2/3 to 3/4 of it's total rotation. It sounds like the speaker grills on the front doors are vibrating and causing the distortion.

With classical and jazz guitar, it depends on the piece and the guitar.

Music with a Top40 sound tends to be too loud before I can detect distortion, although the bass seems overdriven at higher volume levels. At more typical volume levels, it seems about right.

I wonder if the LD/HP speakers can't handle that level of midrange, or the PowerGuard Amp is clipping at midrange or the door panels can't quite handle that much acoustic power in them?

Just curious,
Theo

evilizard · May 2001

I've never been able to to get the thing much past the halfway mark before it was too loud to stay in the car.

ateixeira · May 2001

We listenend to one at the Philly Auto Show, and even standing outside the car it was loud and clear. Seemed pretty nice to my (admittedly non-audiophile) ears.

-juice

nwguy1 · May 2001

Anyone know when the 2002 Outbacks will be available? Also, any more info on a possible VDC off switch for the 2001s?

robnis · May 2001

Bridgestone tires

VDC off switch

Possibly another color choice

rsholland · May 2001

probably in late August, if the past few years are any indication.

Bob

vdchawk · May 2001

Oh boy! Bridgestone tires...Have we all forgotten that Bridgestone and Firestone are the same company.

I would be interested in a retrofit for the VDC switch in a 2001 model, yet have never had the VDC make a correction on anything but snow. I just don't see the big deal about the off switch.

ateixeira · May 2001

Same company, yes, but the tires are different.

Bridgestone makes a lot of good tires, like the RE730, S02, and S03. Too bad the RE92s aren't one of them! ;-)

-juice

evilizard · May 2001

Got a nasty rock hit and a 6" crack on the windshield this weekend. It extends to the bottom of the window and a little above the wipers. When considering the fix/replace options I noticed the windshield wiper heaters. They look like trace elements on the inside of the back window. What I am wondering is are they part of the front windshield or are they on the car itself?
If I replace the windshield with aftermarket will I still have the heaters?

ateixeira · May 2001

They are part of the windshield. You probably want to stick with an OE one.

Does you insurance cover it? In my state, comprehensive does, after the deductable (mine is $200).

-juice

evilizard · May 2001

If figured they were.
New windshield is $395. oouch. $250 deductable on the old insurance and they jack your rates (those bloodsuckers get their money one way or another).

Maybe the $60 mobile crack repair is worth a shot.
Anyone had any experience with such things?

ateixeira · May 2001

It's worth a shot to have them try. Maybe ask if they'll install an OE windshield for you in case they fail to fix it.

-juice

vdchawk · May 2001

Following the argument of same company different tire. Is the tire installed on an Outback the same as the tire on a Explorer. I really don't think so. I just say if your scared of Firestone because of the Explorer issue, it is just as revelavent to be scared of Bridgestone. The Explorer tires have as much in common with the Outback tires as Firestone tires have with Bridgestone tires.

ateixeira · May 2001

I dunno, that sounds a little conspiracy-theory-ish to me.

The Firestones on the 2000-2001 Outbacks are H-rated and carry a better heat resistance rating (B) than the truck tires on the Explorer (C). More importantly, people like us, using discussion boards, would surely have heard of any cases by now. Firestone has been under a microscope.

I think the Bridgestones are rated A for heat resistance, and these ratings are provided by the tire company itself.

-juice

teslamania · May 2001

I have read all the messages, and the VDC looks great. I am looking to replace a 93 Grand Cherokee. I love hondas, but the CRV is said to be a bit under powered. The RAV-4 has gotten good reviews, but the toyota dealer near by is not great. The VDC looks great - should have just about the same ground clearance as my Jeep, has a bigger engine than the RAV-4 and probably the new CRV. But how much snow can the VDC go through i. e. what is the deepest amount of snow the VDC can plow through?

Fitzgerald is a dealer near by, and for a VDC with the L6D package (I think they mean the L6C package - with auto dimming mirror, compass, and security system upgrade) and their internet price is $28,551 plus tag and taxes. I am not sure if delivery is included. They list the invoice price as $29,708 and a MSRP of 33,022. If I like it on the test drive, is this a good deal? Should I wait for the 2002 VDC wagon, and the 2002 VDC sedan? Will there be an on / off switch for the VDC?

vdchawk · May 2001

I picked mine up in February during one of the northeasts nasty snows. We got around 8-12 inches around my area. The VDC drove through the snow like the roads were dry. You really need to be pushing the limits safe driving to get the VDC system to wake up. I needed to really throw the car into a hard turn to see it activate. The traction control indication did light up a few times.

On wet and dry pavement I have yet to get the VDC system to activate. I really don't see the great need for an on/off switch, to me it is like an on/off for the ABS why disable something that stays quite until you need it. Some say that it takes away from the driving experience, if you drive that close to the edge of control you may really need the computer to keep you out of a ditch.

The only problem I have had is the ECU cold start problem, the ECU was replaced and there still seems to be a problem. I await my next dealer visit.

ateixeira · May 2001

Tesla: yes, there will be an off switch for 2002. But Hawk has a point - Car & Driver compared four AWD wagons recently and the VDC was the only one that did not crash into a snow bank, literally.

I've taken my Forester on deep sand, though I added taller and wider tires, 225/60R16. That's what the VDC has, except I have a bit more ground clearance.

You'll love these photos though. Check out all four of them - the 4th shows that ground clearance, for me, was not much of an issue.

Also, our loyal SoA rep and friend, Patti, took a VDC to the volleyball courts and did everything she could to get her VDC tester stuck, and could not. So it should be OK as long as you know what you're doing and don't go dune climbing.

I believe the Fitz price does include freight. If you want to buy from them, e-mail me (ateixeira@ifc.org) and I'll put you in contact with a salesman friend there.

Yes, I get a referral, but I'll pay for a year's membership to SCOA (Subaru Club of America) if you'd like, so we both win. The price stays the same.

-juice

nygreg · May 2001

Since I only have my base OB about a month now, and missed all the snow this year, are these cars really that good going through the snow??? I expect so, but, won't be able to test it for another 6 months or so. Ditto for my AWP.

Do you recover a slide the same as an "ordinary" car?? Curious.

Greg

mtnshopper · May 2001

I took my LL Bean into the dealer last week because of the cold start problem & rough shifting. They told me Subaru is aware of the cold start problem, but does not have an operational fix. I was advised to use lower octane fuel. I filled up with 87 octane and now the starter turns over even longer before the car will start in the morning. On 91 octane, the problem was apparent when the temperature was near 40F and only occurred a couple of times at warmer temperatures. Now it happens every morning when the temp has been in the 50s. I called the dealer to let them know the lower octane made the problem worse and was told there is nothing that can be done at this time. Basically, the message was don't call us, we'll call you. I have wanted an Outback for 6 years. This is my first Subaru and the most expensive vehicle I've ever purchased. I'm disappointed and sorry to say that I cannot recommend the purchase of an H6 model to anyone. I hope they fix this soon so I can be a happy Subaru owner too. But I'm skeptical at this point.

Becky

vdchawk · May 2001

Becky,

Call SOA, my dealer said the same thing. The lower octane fix takes 2 or more tanks to really work, but it worked for me. I was not happy with the cars performance on the lower octane fuel, that's when I called SOA. You may want to call your dealer and say that you have heard of ECU replacements and that your next step is to go over them to SOA.

I have also read that the newer models (after February 2001) do not have the problem, when was yours manufactured?

Keith

ateixeira · May 2001

Greg: the VDC may actually prevent the slide. It can't break the laws of physics, of course. You may want to drive it around in an empty parking lot when it does snow to learn how it behaves.

Becky: sorry to hear your issues are not resolved yet. Hopefully they will be. If your dealer lets you down, get in contact with Patti (or e-mail and I'll put you in touch) and hopefully that'll get them to act.

Someone else mentioned the dealer took his ECU and sent it to SoA to look at. It came back fixed and has been fine since. Maybe you could ask your dealer to do the same? I think they are in the process of finding the right fix.

The date of manufacture should be on your driver's door jamb.

-juice

mtnshopper · May 2001

vdchawk & ateixeira, my Bean was manufactured in February. I was told by the salesman that it had the new ECU. Either he fibbed or the new ECU is faulty. I've already emailed SOA customer service once and was told to go to the dealer. But the dealer told me they have received no information from Subaru and don't have any idea when a fix will be available, or even if it will be the ECU or something else that is replaced. They said when Subaru notifies them of a fix, then they will notify the owners who have brought their cars in with the complaint. I told them that I've heard of others getting new ECUs, but they said they have heard nothing about that. When was the H6 made available for purchase? October? November? The problem must be at least 6 or 7 months old by now, but I'm under the impression that Subaru doesn't even know what's causing the problem, let alone how to fix it. It's very strange that some people seem to be getting their cars fixed and others are being told there is no fix. That lowers my confidence and trust in Subaru.
Becky

yellowbikedon · May 2001

My LL Bean, bought in November, had the "Check Engine Light" indicator come on twice, indicating a problem with the fuel sensors. SOA directed the local dealer to return the onboard computer to them for an inspection. This was done by overnight mail. The outcome was SOA replaced both fuel sensors AND the ECU. My wagon was "down" for two and a half days. An Enterprise loaner (at no cost) was offered. I couldn't have been more satisfied with the cooperation of SOA and the local dealer here in Delray, FL.

Don't be afraid to let your dealer and SOA know you're in touch with others via Edmunds and they have had their problems resolved expeditiously. Also, Patti M is a wonderful help. You can always put a call into her at 1.800.SUBARU3 and ask the customer's service rep. to get in touch with her. Believe me, from my experiences, Subaru really does care!

Good luck.

Don

vdchawk · May 2001

By reading Gregs message he has a base level OB not a VDC model. Your AWD will perform better in the snow than regular cars but will not correct a slide at all. I agree with Juice, no computer can alter the laws of physics. Just like if all 4 wheels are sliding on ice the ABS system thinks the car stopped (I've had it happen!)

ateixeira · May 2001

Becky - it sounds to me like it's the dealership itself, not SoA.

Why don't you call the 800 number to complain and start a case file? Or e-mail Patti Mickel at pmickel@subaru.com and ask for her to get involved.

-juie

nygreg · May 2001

for the response. Yes, I do have a base and asked the question more or less knowing the answer. As an engineer, I fully understand the law of physics and expect that with AWD and the LSD I am less likely to start sliding than a lesser car. Of course, tires have a large roll in this too. So here is a more accurate (as opposed to precise) question: Given the stock Firestone tires and 12" of snow, how well will the car do going up an "average" hill (20 degrees)?? I expect well, but, am looking for some reassurance.

Thanks,
Greg

ateixeira · May 2001

Greg - the most I've driven in is about 10", and my Forester plowed through begging for more. Over some snow drifts it would push some snow out of the way to get past, but no big deal, and no damage to my plastic bumper.

They are an absolute hoot to drive in the snow. I'm like a little kid praying for snow all winter long.

-juice

kens · May 2001

Greg,

I drove exactly through the conditions you described this winter. Snow up to the top of the bumper going up a driveway.

My Forester S with stock Geolandar tires handled it like a champ. Just gave it steady gas and it scrambled up the hill. I felt the power going from front to back as the tires broke and regained traction -- very cool. I even experimented by stopping mid-way and then getting back on the gas. No problem. Your OB will do just fine.

It's not the driveway, but here's a picture I took that same day:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1013602&a=12601901&p=47380960

Ken

mtnshopper · May 2001

Thanks. Don, good to hear that you have had a positive experience. I'll get in touch with Patti. My check engine light has never come on. In fact, I don't know where it would show up on the dash. Does it light up somewhere near the outline of the little car?
Thanks, Becky

ateixeira · May 2001

It should be right around there. I think if you insert the key, it does a test cycle, so you can tell where it would light up.

-juice

drew_ · May 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

subaru_team · May 2001

Good Afternoon! Believe it or not, I found your case (we've only heard from 8 Becky's in the past few months - I did a first name search and found you). I have contacted your dealer and I can assure you that we will do our best to rectify this quickly. You should hear from your dealer later today or first thing tomorrow morning. If not, please call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 and let the Rep. know. I'm in a bunch of meetings tomorrow, but I will leave instructions in your case.

I'm sorry about the problem!

Patti

mtnshopper · May 2001

Wow. You're a good detective. Thanks. I'll call.
Becky

nygreg · May 2001

thanks for the response. Love the picture. Two Foresters (must resist) plowing through the snow and an SUV (background) sitting in the driveway. Very nice.

Greg

otis123 · May 2001

What finally sold my wife and me on getting the LLBean Outback was a final snow test drive back in December (it was our fifth test drive - at 2 dealerships). We came to a full stop in the middle of a 25 degree hill with 10 inches of snow. The car started back up the hill like the pavement was bone dry. (My 92CamryLE would have spun and slid back down the hill.) That's what finally sold us on buying the car.

Since then, we experienced several snowstorms this past winter. Driving home from work in a snowstorm is no longer a heart-racing experience...

drew_ · May 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

vdchawk · May 2001

Just a link that compares the Subaru to the Volvo. Pictures are better than reviews. Sorry about the foreign language lesson.

http://bilnytt.spray.se/nybil/Volvo%20XC%20mot%20Subaru/volvo_filmen.mov

Subaru Outback VDC

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