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Subaru Outback VDC

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Look at it this way - it's a good test of your dealership's service dept. They get it right, and you should be good if you ever need them in the future.

    -juice
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    I'm was only unhappy with their service department. Their sales department was fine. Most of the Subarus (8 now) in my department were from WGS but only 1 still goes back there for service.....they have similar stories to mine.
    I would still buy a car there but I would just take it to Lou Fusz Subaru for service.
  • popgunpopgun Member Posts: 25
    When you guys write about dealers sales and service departments it would be helpful to say where you are writing from, city, state etc. I would like to know if someone has found a great dealer in California for instance.....
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    I like Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City. High volumn dealer with lots of inventory. Very straightforward sales policy with salespersons that don't hassle you, test drive any car without a ride along, and one price that is usually around 3 percent over dealer invoice including options. Service gets mixed reviews with some claiming unnecessary maintenance and fat charges. They have been great to me. Santa Cruz Subaru has gotten great reviews especially their service department.

    bit
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    I hope that everything gets resolved to your satisfaction. Just to clarify what your dealer told you - the industry standard is for a variance of up to 7% - it's not just Subaru.

    Make sure you let us know if you are not satisfied. Our Reps. are happy to help when they can.

    Patti
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Near St. Louis.
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    The Subaru dealer, Webster Groves Subaru, that Nematode and I have been referring to is in St. Louis, not the strongest of Subaru markets by the way.

    By the way, Nematode, I'm sorry to report that the salesman you mentioned, Gil Daniels, is no longer there. He was ours as well, and we miss him.

    WThere are three dealers in St. Louis -- two are part of auto dealer "networks" where Subaru is a secondary brand, and the third is the independent, Webster Groves. We're veterans of nine Subaru purchases there for ourselves and family, and have been, with one or two glaring exceptions, extremely happy with their sales and service support -- they won us over when my wife's wedding ring somehow slipped off her finger while driving, and tumbled into the dashboard somewhere. She roared over to WG Subaru in a panic; the service manager Neil, calmed her down, gave her some coffee and spent 20 minutes looking for and eventually finding the ring somehow. And he didn't even charge us! I have to acknowledge that this made us highly partial to them, and we probably overlook gafs there that we would never tolerate at any other dealer.

    I know there is a separate chatroom for this, but while I have folks' attention, I would be interested in hearing about sales and service experiences at Subaru dealerships in St. Louis. Seems to me none of the three have yet tapped into the enthusiast or cult aspects of the Subaru marketplace here.

    As a folo to our VDC and ABS lights coming on after a bump-hitting ...thanks to all who offered input. All is well now. Meanwhile my own 5-spd OB with only 18.5K miles is in the shop (guess where?) because what I thought was a balky air-conditioner fan turned out to be a bad alternator. Neil is having one overnighted, but I must admit I'm starting to feel like I'm spending too much time with my Subaru mechanic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hopefully that'll be it for a while. Enjoy your VDC now that it's back.

    -juice
  • scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    Purchased my VDC 11/30/00. I have 8,000 miles and I haven't had any problems at all. It runs great! I bring it in for service for oil changes only.
    The dealership is Subaru of Thousand Oaks, CA.
    I've asked around and the information I'm getting is that the service is good and the man to see is Scott. The word is he's a very good mechanic.
    From reading some of the posts, the problems some people are having with their VDC's seems to be from February,01 and on. My question would be "What did Subaru do differently from February on?
    Bobby
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image


    ...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!

    http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

  • t_zakt_zak Member Posts: 10
    I was able to make a below invoice deal on a LL Bean at Clawson Honda in Fresno. I thought the service department was fine...Of course I had nothing major to discuss with them...I would recommend both the selling and servicing side of the dealership.
  • highndryhighndry Member Posts: 7
    I had to smile when I read your post. I did the exact same thing: new car (VDC), 500 mile trip, GPS. And guess what....4 MPH difference. A good GPS receiver will update its info every 1-2 seconds and their accuracy is remarkable, especially out on the open road where you you could be locked on to as many as 12 satellites. As someone stated, they're accurate to within 3 meters or even less! I've never owned a car with speedometer this far off. By the way, have you had any hesitation problems with your VDC? I've posted an earlier complaint about this problem. I'm taking my car into the dealer for an oil change and complain about the hesitation problem for the third time. I'll bring up the inaccuracy of the speedometer and I'll let you know what he says. Does anyone know the cure for the howling noise coming from car top rack/carrier? And how about that brake squeal in the morning. Has SOA got a cure for that yet?
  • gmcmkingmcmkin Member Posts: 17
    I will be taking my car it to the dealer on Monday.


    To Patti: the issue is not the difference in speed per se. It is the attitude of the service manager seeking to a) blow me off then by citing 10% as the allowed variance and b) gruding acknowledgement of the issue, but telling me that the his ability to resolve is based on a bizarre non-disgnostic test. I gave up trying to reason with him. Never argue with a fool, my mother says.


    Here's another one: I also checked my bank account a few days ago and these guys also deposited my check 4 days before I collected the car (they said they would deposit it when I took delivery, which seems fair) and before my funds had moved over. They cost me $250 in bank charges.


    We begged the bank and they refunded $100, now I want the $150 back from the dealer.


    Oh by the way, in response to another poster lookig for dealer names: I would like to give this dealers a fair chance (despite their own actions) and I will not mention their name till I have a chance to speak to the sales guy there on Monday. I WILL provide their reactions once I know.


    The guy I dealt with was really nice and the main reason I bought it there. He spent 1 1/2 hours when I came to collect the car, showing me stuff and he even went got his CD collection and told me how to make the Mac work at its best.


    I apologize to everyone if I am coming off as a whiner. I swear I love this car -- it is beautiful to drive and to look at:


    http://rockypond.homeip.net/mybaby.jpg


    Gary

  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I just returned from my first extended trip on my new VDC (1000 miles starting); through Colorado from Dallas and back. I thought I would give you my impressions. four people, including 6'3" brother in law.

    mpg: 25.3 going; 26.7 returning.

    comfort: the seats which I was worried about were great with no fatigue; we drove 850 miles yesterday. The quietness, supple ride, combined with the stereo really made for a very comfortable trip, particularly compared to our former Volvo 850 wagon. The auto climate control worked flawlessly with ranges from 110 to 40 degrees.

    Handling: We had to handle a lot of rain with mountain driving. This car was outstanding as would be expected. I never had any anxious moments.

    Performance: A little disapointment here. The engine ran great, but I am still fighting the transmission to do what I want to do. The car has plenty of power when you get its attention, but it seems way too sluggish for just normal oomph, particularly in the mountains. Maybe this is just me getting used to it; it seemed better on the way back. I was used to the high pressure turbo power of the Volvo; I might be expecting too much. The jury is still out on this.

    Problems. On my first hard climb over a pass at 11000 feet. Right before the summit, the "VDC off" light comes on for about a minute or so and then goes out at the summit. This never happened again. Any thoughts??

    All in all, the car was great on this trip. Now, if I can just whip the transmission into shape.

    Mike
  • pocahontaspocahontas Member Posts: 802
    Just to let you know: if you or others are interested sharing your vehicle pic's with owners of other makes, please join us in this new discussion: Station Wagon Pic's you'd like to share!


    And now back to the discussion of the Subaru Outback VDC. Happy Motoring!


    Pocahontas

    Host

    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards

  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Just finished a 1,000-mile trip of our own like Mike above, and our Subaru performed just like he found -- unbelievably comfortable and not tiring at all, despite 14-hr return trip drive, fantastic performance during torrential rains in the Smokies, Mcintosh grows on you the longer you listen to it; transmission felt like it was the only part of the car not totally in the game. Overall rating A to A-. What a car -- and VDC value increases in my mind anytime I window-shop Volvos, Audis, VWs, or SUVs including the new Explorer and Trailblazer etc.
  • 2001vdcdriver2001vdcdriver Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone have information on the McIntosh Stereo System (headunit/amp/speakers) that comes in the VDC?
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    There was an earlier comment on this thread (I think) where someone had compared specs and surmised the following:

    head unit: variant of MX406
    Amplifier: variant of MC420M
    Speakers: MSX486 (2-pair), MS10, and MSX487

    The list price was something like $2500, if his (or her) analysis was correct.

    Mike
  • pswannpswann Member Posts: 10
    Has anyone seen last week's episode of MotorWeek, the PBS car show? It was advertised as featuring a long-term road test of the 2001 OB H6-3.0 (don't know if they were driving a Bean or a VDC) and I was curious to hear what they had to say.
  • brownwjbrownwj Member Posts: 19
    to pswann - The Motor Week show did a brief segment on the DC (they ran it for 6-months and reviewed it). They said that they have has no problems and said that it runs fine and is stable in wet weather. I think they said that they got 21.9 mpg overall. I was surprised at that because in the bean I have 5,000 miles and I run around 25. I have not had it on a highway trip. I have had no problems and am glad I paid the extra money for the 6. It does burn premium, but I only drive around 12,000 miles per year and at $0.20 extra for premium that is only $80 extra a year.
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    On a another discussion, there was various recommendations concerning leather care. It seemed to make a difference whether the manufacturer had used a clear coat on the leather. Does anyone know whether the VDC seats were clear coated?

    thanks
    Mike
  • bsddsbsdds Member Posts: 6
    I currently have a gmc yukon and want to down size. I have a motorcycle trailer of about 400#'s and normally will only use it for one bike but on rare occasions two. That brings the weight up to the 2000 pound limit. Has any on towed with this fascinating automobile/sub/station wagon/whatever?
    bob
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Ouch - it doesn't sound like the dealer put their best foot forward. We do track and monitor the performance of our dealers, so please make sure you note your concerns either with one of our C. S. Representatives or on a future survey.

    The dealers also want this feedback. The old expression "you can't fix what you don't know is broken" seems to fit here.

    Thanks for giving them a chance to make it right.

    Patti
  • evilizardevilizard Member Posts: 195
    Lexol or Conally Hide Food works fine for the VDC.
    The leather has been chemically treated and dyed but I don't know about a clear coat.

    Saw your posting on the Zaino site. I've Z'd my VDC (white). Email me if you have any questions.
  • gmcmkingmcmkin Member Posts: 17
    Was up in Maine at the weekend. $1.43 for premium. You can bet I filled up before leaving Kittery.

    Incidently, I see mileage quoted here a lot. In my most recent 520 mile round trip I averaged around 27mpg in my VDC. This trip was nearly all highway, avg 68mph with cruise control on most of the time.
  • danielldaniell Member Posts: 128
    Has anybody bought an LLBean in the Cincinnati area? I went yesterday to Beechmont Subaru, test drove it and liked it. But the salesman offered me only $13,500 for my trade in, a 5 speed Nissan Maxima GXE with 3,300 miles (weekend car, and wife can't drive it). Both Edmunds and Kelly's Blue Book calculators appraised my car at $16,400-$16,600. Finally, the salesman said that he would give me $15,500 for my car, but only if I bought the LLBean at MSRP, $29,900. I walked.
    Does anybody know a better dealership arround? I wouldn't mind driving 150-200 miles. I already emailed Autobytel and Fitzgerald, I'll see if anything comes out...
  • 2001vdcdriver2001vdcdriver Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the information.

    Does anyone know if you're able to adjust/tweek the McIntosh system other than turning the control knobs ie. Can you adjust the amp?, etc.

    In addition, does anyone know if there is a 6 disk cd changer available for the 2001 or 2002 VDC? I know a standard 6 disk cd changer is available but it's not up to McIntosh standards for frequency response, etc.

    VDC Driver
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Check out the Smart Shopper Real World Trade in Values and see what the fellows there say. Kelley's and Edmunds miss the mark sometimes.
  • danielldaniell Member Posts: 128
    EOM
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    and choose Smart Shopper from the dropdown box.
  • vdchawkvdchawk Member Posts: 40
    Gary and Patti,

    I too have been told of the 10 % variance, both by the sealer and SOA. If you look you will most likely be off the same 3-4 miles per hour at 30. My VDC is off 3 MPH across the board, that means when it shows 10 MPH it's actually 7 MPH (more than 10 %) and at 70 MPH it's 67 MPH. My GPS reads dead on with the computer via ODBII scan tool. The computer reads correctly, the analog dial is off. This issue was never resolved for me!

    Patti, I had left a message for you on my open cold start issue, still waiting. I guess the person I talked too didn't forward the message.
  • gmcmkingmcmkin Member Posts: 17
    Well things have gone from bad to worse.

    I checked the car into Subara in Natick, Massachusetts yesterday at 8:30am. I also mentioned steering wheel vibration at 70mph (indicate clock speed, really 66mph). The guy at the dealership told me new cars should have the wheels balanced.

    I called in a 3.30pm and spoke to Don there. He told me they had found a variance in the speedo and had called SOA for advice. (Also, told me he found no vibration even though my passenger confirmed it in the morning). I asked him to put the wheels on a balancer. He said he would. He said he would call back shortly.

    At 6pm I decided to leave when my lift arrived. I had no call as yet, but the service hours were to 8pm so I figure I'd to go over and wait.

    I arrived at the dealership and it looked very quiet. The service area was locked and closed. I went inside and the cashier asked my name. Could not find my keys and went into the service area. Came out and said matter of factly, sorry your car's not ready. Why didn't Don call me? I don't know, came the reply. But there is nothing wrong with my car, it is only a diagnostic. A shrug was all I got. (I had the impression this happens a lot by her nonchalance). I asked if there service manager was here: No. I told her to give me my keys. I got in my car and got out of there fast.

    So I guess I have my answer on how much the dealer cares. Even disgruntled customers get the shaft. I mean what if my lift had dropped me and gone home????? I live 25 miles from there!!!!!!

    To Patti: I am sorry, but I cannot take the "give us feedback line". I want this resolved. All of my issues, including the bank charges. Please tell me who (I mean who, not an 800 number) to call who will resolve it. I also want to register a strong complaint to a person who also will take direct action.

    I also want someone to tell me where in the Massachussets laws it states that a state trooper or local cop will give me the allowed variance you seem to be claiming. If I can be ticketed for a posted speed then my speedo better be damn close to it and not 4.5mph off. I have a friend who is a state trooper and I WILL be going through his speed detail soon to get the exact variance.

    I am damned annoyed that such a piddly problem is being handled in a pathetic and unsympathtic way by Subara Natick in Massachusetts.

    What a bad poster boy for a great car.

    Oh yeah, on the way home I noticed the wheels still vibrate.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Towing - I've pulled about 1500 pounds in a trailer I borrowed. The trailer itself weighs 700 lbs or so, and I put 3 yards of wood chips in it. Photos are here.


    That's with a 5 speed Forester L. The VDC has a lot more torque, more weight (for stability), bigger brakes, longer wheelbase, plus it's an automatic.


    -juice

  • bsddsbsdds Member Posts: 6
    thanks juice. Nothing beats personal experience.
    bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Another Bob... Hide the women and children!

    Bob
  • tryittryit Member Posts: 3
    1. if the speedometerss are off by say 6% (as mine seems to be) does that mean that someone who thinks they are getting 23 mpg is actually only getting 94% of 23 mpg? I thought my drive was just getting longer. :-)

    2. bought a VDC in late Nov '00. currently less than 8M miles (I also drive other vehicles). has been to local dealer (Capitol Imports, Columbia SC) twice for an illuminated check engine light. first indication was cylinders 3 and 5 misfired. second indication was cylinders 1, 3 and 5. dealer service rep indicates that SOA does NOT have a fix and does NOT know what is causing the problem although there are other H6's with same problem. Will SOA affirm or deny his statement. his suggestion was to recycle the warning light and ignore it. really need an answer on this.

    3. suggestions for 2002+ .... it's a small thing but you can't see to insert the ignition key in the dark. even inexpensive cars have lights around the ignition switch. maybe I've just missed something?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the ignition light is part of the '02 Outback upgrades.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They heard you - and quick.

    A misfire could be caused by bad gas, so it's not necessarily a problem with your engine.

    Besides, I'd be happy to get 8 million miles out of mine! ;-)

    -juice
  • scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    To Juice,
    If I can be of some help--In the 8M Miles the M stands for MILLI. In Italian MILLI means thousand.
    Bobby
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    As recommended by the dealer, I took my car in this morning to change out the transmission oil to synthetics; I am waiting until 15K for the switching the oil.

    While there, I asked them to check the vdc system since my "VDC off" light had come on while climbing my first mountain at 1500 miles; I also complained about the sluggish transmission. They and the computer could not duplicate the VDC problem (Only happened once). They called some VDC guru somewhere; his only explanation was that the computer had gotten confused but has since reset itself. I wonder if Microsoft was involved in the design.

    The lead mechanic drove the car to evaluate the transmission; his comments were interesting. He said the shift delay I had noticed was normal to VDC's; it was caused by the concern by Subaru that the VDC system would overreact to any sudden changes and take control. He said never to let off the gas when accelerating because that would magnify the issue. Realistically, I have bought into his logic since lately none of these issues are bothering me; I think I have learned the VDC's characteristics and it has learned mine.

    That's actually pretty good; after 30 plus years my wife and I are still working on it.

    Great car,
    Mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh, OK. Ravioli, spaghetti, tutti frutti! :-)

    -juice
  • tryittryit Member Posts: 3
    My assumption with the first CEL was bad gas, so i've been using brand name premium (although i had no problem with off brand plus for first 6500 miles). Also: (1) dealer says they checked for any signs of an actual misfire and could find none, (2) i was driving it both times and there was no sign of a misfire (just nice smooth H6 AWD purring) and (3) aren't 1,3, and 5 all on the same side of engine with 2, 4 and 6 on the other? (i really don't know for sure) Wouldn't bad gas be equally likely to cause the other cylinders to misfire? Although 2 instances are not a large enough sample yet to be conclusive, my hypothesis is that there is something wrong with a sensor of some sort on that side of the engine. Since i have experienced NO problems with hesitation or cold starts i really really wouldn't want to swap out the ECM unless i have to, since it appears that others have had some problems along those lines with the later ECMs. Has anyone else experienced anything similar with the CEL?
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Good Morning. I'd like to take a look at your case file so I can see what is going on. While I work in the Customer Service area, my job is QC for our Reps. and training. I can't promise you that I'll handle your case personally (it would never get the level of attention it needs), I will promise to review it with the Rep. and try to get it to the right conclusion. When you call in, please tell the Rep. you are speaking with that you are an active member of Edmunds and that I asked to be made aware of the case. I'll take a look today to see what is going on and I hope I can help you get some resolution.

    I am sorry about the problems. Our Reps. are empowered to get results so they won't just be "noting" your feedback. With the sales issue you had, they can contact the dealer and help them do the right thing, but in all candor, they cannot directly interfere with a sales transaction. I'm not telling you this to discourage you, only to be honest.

    I'm sure we can get this turned around. I'll look forward to hearing from you. I have back to back meetings today, so I may be hard to reach, but if you are dissatisfied with the way the Rep. handles your contact, please ask for me. You may get my voicemail, but I will call you back.
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Same as with Gary's post. Let your Rep. know that I want to see your case. I'll try to help.

    Patti
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Have you called in? I can't find a case for you. If you have, please call and let the Rep. know that I would like to see your case? (from last weeks chat)

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • bsddsbsdds Member Posts: 6
    Boy, this is kewl!!!!! The fact you would post this tells me miles about SOA. Thanks
    another bob
    bobspelledbackwardswouldstillbe??????????????????
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I found your file. I'm checking into some things and I'll be in touch soon!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I found your file. It appears that your original contact with us was more a generalized concern about the speedo variance. Your message did not outline the concern you had with the dealer or the vibration. I am asking a Rep. to contact you today to review the concerns you have and to see what information the dealer has. I'm sorry you had the problem, but we will get on it right away.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's see....BOB! :-)

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    !tnemmoc ecin eht rof s'knahT

    ittaP
This discussion has been closed.