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Advertising Fees
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The manufacturer puts it on the invoice.
You basically called the dealer a liar and protested because you either ignored the part on edmunds about add fees or you just chose not to read that part.
When I show a customer a invoice and they call me a liar,the car deal is off.
It is a Federal Offense to tamper with a invoice.It's not worth 280.00 to lose my franchise over that.
Check out Carsdirect.com they tend to have true invoice.
Art
It would be so simple for the manufacturer to do.
I would be happy and the consumer would be happy.
and the dealer will show it to you.
As I am a GM employee buyer I do not have
to pay it. Isellpotiac can explain why
better that I cuz he is a GM dealer.
Not sure about ford x plan or chrysler
employees having to pay adv fees.
Beware of some of those web site prices
SOME do not say anything about adv. fees
Good luck......Geo
now if you saw a 'copy' that was altered in anyway slanted or white out or or or then that's another storyyy, another topicccc.
Car_Man
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Really? How simple? It's a regional fee that varies by market region. So you want te invoice price of a car to be different from one region to another? That makes no sense.
Maybe you picture a region as an entity unto itself? There are boundaries between regions, where one region meets another, and inevitably there will be a dealership just down the street from another - right across the state line - where the ad fees are different. You want these dealers to show different invoice prices? Why?
Makes much simpler sense to me to have one national invoice price, and regional and dealer costs are added to that. Period.
You know, they DO have the right to sell the car at any price they choose. You did know that . . .right?
Car_man's right - offer an OTD price, and let them decide. It's much simpler. I wish this invoice baloney had never been exposed in the first place. Just talk buying price. Forget invoice.
Every expense that a business has is paid for by its customers one way or the other.
Actually even the $287 you offered does not even come close to covering the cost of bringing that car to market, but if that is what the dealer is willing to pay great for you.
Do you think, when you see all those slick ad's on TV and radio, about 0%, lease programs, special vehicles etc, ... and it's free ..? Oooooh No -- they slap it to the cost of the vehicle, which the dealer pays.. and by the way is not reflective on our holdback --- they charge us -- we charge you .... nothing personal here, it's just business ..
Terry.
almost as bad a real estate.....
I'd love it if the manufacturers had the cajones to put "advertising fee" on the window sticker.
...of course it depends on if I really want the Cabrio Bug, then I have to smile and say "thank you" at 5k over. :-)
what is on the Invoice, and the illustration
you offer regarding the Chevy Dealer sheds light
on the fact that Manufacturers do offer Dealers
Incentive Money in an effort to assist the Dealer
move older Inventory so that they can buy newer Inventory...And this benefits the Customer!!!
The real problem here is the fact that by using
this type of language in an Ad..."$500 Below Invoice"...they invite criticism such as yours.
Terry.
the dealer invoice is what the dealer paid for the car otherwise it won't be called the dealer invoice. what happens later on down the road is Accounting 404.
...that's why, when I want to buy a car, I go to edmunds and search dealer cash, etc. then work the deal accordingly.
Hey, hey, hey, VWGUILD, wazzzuuup?! Does anybody know what VW Guild stands for?
claywaterfill: You sound like someone I'd hate trying to sell a car too.
A) Why is it that in every other business the customer is expected to pay enough to cover the 'cost of doing business' and then some, whereas the car dealer is expected to eat the advertising fee and pass the savings to you. Paying employees is also a 'cost of doing business.' Should the dealer start doing that out of his own pocket and pass the cost to the customer? In fact ideally maybe they should cover all costs of doing business so they can sell you the car for a dollar and then pay all the overhead themselves. Oh wait, I forgot, they would probably go bankrupt in about 5 minutes doing this. A profitable business means customers cover your cost of doing business plus profit.
b) I am always amused when people act like car dealers don't deserve a healthy profit and want to cut into every source of profit on a deal rather than just gettin your ideal out the door price. But then they still think the dealer should be kissing their behind to win an unprofitable sale. I get the impression holdback is not a true source of profit but something to defray the cost of the dealer's financing on a vehicle. It's not free money for him, it's a way to keep him from loosing even more money.
Dealers, I know you get sick of explaining this but could someone define holdback one more time please?
Holdback is nothing more, or nothing less .. than a percentage of monies the manufacturer will release to the dealer to help cover "floorplan expense" ...
All dealers -- depending on inventories, stores, product lines..etc, receives 2/3% (sometimes a little more.. or less) to help "offset" some of cost of "floor planning" inbound..or.. vehicles already sitting on the ground --- I pay 1/4 point over prime, for my inventories.
This all starts the day I receive the invoices -- not the day they hit the ground. I receive invoices on vehicles sometimes that are 1/2/3 weeks away ... and I'm paying for them.
The whole basis for "holdback" is to at least try to "offset" some of the cost of a 2/4/$6 million dollar inventories .... and the Key word's here being -- try to offset -- ... It's not a profit center .. or even close, kinda remember that I spend my monies first .. then wait, til I'm reimbursed in part, for vehicles I didn't particulary want or need ... and sometimes, the dealers are Kinda "black mailed " so to speak, to get our holdback ...
I hope this makes some sense ...
Terry.
My grandfather told me a long time ago ... " A little information is very dangerous --- and, too much information is not enough --- sometimes it's the consumer (including my-self) ... that has a little information -- and whether you are buying a boat, a watch ..or a home, just make sure you have the right information ...
Terry.
isell didn't say that I did, and not because you don't like being screwed. I'm guessing you're the jaded, cynical type who walks into a showroom looking to go to war, whereas if I were a car salesman I would avoid such adversarial customers and probably tell you to take a hike after I got a taste of your attitude. Also, if you'd spoken to isell for any length of time you'd know he's not the type to 'screw' people.
"I have a degree in Finance, so I understand all too well that a business must make a profit to stay operational"
A degree in something doesn't mean you know every single thing there is to know about it. Your simplistic view of holdback as free money for dealers is proof of this.
"Now, you want me to pay you back for the ad because it worked? If it costs Chevrolet more to advertise in Atlanta, then it costs McDonald's and Best Buy more as well. When you order a #1 value meal for $2.99, they don't add an additional quarter to offset their advertising costs. When you buy a TV at Best Buy they don't tack on another $20 at the register to help offset their costs involved in printing the circular that was in your Sunday paper."
You can bet the quarter or the twenty dollars is added in there in whatever the manufacturer charges the store for the product, it's just not a line item. Also, best buy is not required to pay a separate fee to the manufacturer of that TV above and beyond just the basic cost of the unit just to cover Sony's cost for advertising it. They pay a certain amount for the TV itself, then sell it at a markup.
On the other hand, dealers get charged by the manufacturer seperately for advertising by region. To just include that fee in the price of the car would mean invoices would vary slightly by region. How long before someone complains about being charged more just because of where they live? Since it's goign to be there whether we like it or not, does it matter whether it's really seperate? Or maybe some customers want it rolled into the price of the car so they know there's more room for grinding. If you have a problem with it, it's probably something to complain to the manufacturer about.
"You need to make a profit, but you don't need to make it all on me."
Very interesting statement. I'd lovee to know where else the dealer makes profit other than from selling cars to the customer. The profit fairy?
Nope, car dealerships have to deal all day long with customers who want an additional mark-down on top of what's there, no matter how much it already is. This happens in Best Buy, but not as much. Also, best buy does not have to deal with people coming in claiming to know precisely how much they paid the manufacturer for the television, and demanding that they get it for that amount or slightly less because they must have some secret free money they get for selling the TV that gives them more than a sufficient profit.
"Don't make me have to pay you back for the successful ad that got me there. See how many cars you sell if you don't advertise."
Something to tell the manufacturer, not the dealer. If anything advertising fees are a case of a manufacturer screwing the dealer and the dealer refusing to simply swallow that extra cost and let it eat away at their profit margin. Maybe if the MANUFACTURER could figure out some way to average it out and come up with a standard fee for each car and then roll it into their invoice it might not be a bad idea. OF all the things I'd classify as unethical or unreasonable on the part of the dealer, that is not one.
Also, I'd think a finance major would know better than to make analogies between sellng TV's and selling cars. Two different businesses.
When was the last time you walked into mcdonalds or best buys and told the guy you would buy that sandwich or TV at $5.00 over invoice and you want to see the invoice?
Rich
Oh how I loved that game.
I play with my kids now ( their 3 and 8 years old)
man can I smoke that ball by them
to the continuing misunderstanding...Let me try
another tact...
The Ad Fees that appear on Dealer's Invoices have
absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with their
local advertising efforts. The Dollars that we spend on LOCAL print, LOCAL Radio, and LOCAL TV
do not appear on any Vehicle Invoice...We are not
passing along to our customers this aspect of our
marketing & merchandising efforts...
These Ad Fees are from the Manufacturer, and only
hold meaning for the Dealer...
If the customer would concentrate, as has been
rcommended by many, on the price of the car, and
not the Dealer's Internal Costs; this topic would
not exist...
If they were to simply increase the cost of each vehicle by a set amount the consumers would not even be aware of it. Therefore problem and questions goes away.
Is there some reason the automakers break this cost out?