Real-World Trade-In Values

qbrozen · February 2011

With a moonroof, you'd be looking at $15,500-$16k trade-in.

So, depending on how fast you want to sell it, you could start it out at $18,495 and take $17,500.

Then again, depending on how tax works in your state, you might be better off trading in. If you were in NJ, for example, you'd be looking at about $1100 tax credit on your new vehicle, giving you $17,100 on your $16k trade. So for the $400 extra selling it yourself, I, for one, wouldn't bother.

Without moonroof, knock off about $600 from all above prices.

Kirstie_H · February 2011

Experience and observation have told me that nothing depreciates faster than a spouse - trading in on those things will almost certainly result in you taking a total bath on your original investment.

jayrider · February 2011

Been married to the same lady since 1969 --- the key is finding someone who can stand you.

ateixeira · February 2011

DC area suburbs
2004 Subaru Legacy L
sedan
2.5l manual, AWD
126,000 miles (yikes)
silver
no options
condition about Average, had been in one prior frontal collision, hood and bumper replaced
assume the rest is roughly average

Car was totalled, looking for a fair insurance value for my brother.

qbrozen · February 2011

As a trade-in, it would probably bring around $2500.

As an insurance car ... well, the prior damage no longer matters, and we are looking for replacement value. So $5500 would be pretty good. Even at $4500, he did OK. But I'd probably argue with anything less than $5k.

ateixeira · February 2011

I will share that with him. He'll be pleased, as I predicted, because they gave him $6500.

qbrozen · February 2011

Yup. Seems to be the habit is to give more. Explains our rates.

ateixeira · February 2011

I think it's because they hit him pretty hard, and he's being cool about it, no lawsuits or anything. He had some minor scrapes and bruises, but overall the car protected him as designed. I'm sure the insurance company is more than happy to pay a little extra to settle the case.

Also, it's been a major inconvenience for him. They supplied a rental car for a few days, but he has to find a good replacement car now, and that takes a while.

Kirstie_H · February 2011

Exactly - same experience here. I got a lot more than any trade-in offer for my vehicle, but I also got hit extremely hard and didn't make a fuss about it. Plus, I think some of it is meant to cover tax and license/registration fees.

qbrozen · February 2011

good point about the extra expenses. Makes sense if true. I mean, I would be pissed if I had to pay those expenses out of pocket for somebody busting up my car. I hadn't thought about that before.

Sandman6472 · February 2011

Was always very fond of the TSX & see a silver one almost everyday...which I lust for. I heard that one has to use 93 octane which is something which made me not even look at it when I went through my Volvo S40 stage a few years ago. A bit nicer than my Civic though close in size...with better creature comforts for an inflated $. But would still love one especially for the power seats,

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

ateixeira · February 2011

What makes it hard for his search is that he wants AWD + manual transmission, a rare combination.

There is no 2004 Legacy under $8k on cars.com within 30 miles of here.

Saw an 03 with fewer miles, roughly equivalent, for $6990. MD 6% tax and he's over what he got from them, unless they deal down a lot.

Also a 2000 with 82k miles, that's a lot older, though. And still $6955.

The amount he got seems to be in the right ballpark.

I'm actually helping him shop for a new replacement. Problem is, AWD+manual are rare as hen's teeth, for a $20k or so budget. Subaru, Suzuki, and a few crossovers (Escape, Tucson, Sportage, Forester, CX7), but they tend to be the stripped base models and he wants something more than just basic.

Plus, dealers simply do not stock manuals! 35 Tucsons locally and not one is manual, did they stop making those? 48 Santa Fes and not one manual. Only one Grand Vitara, only 1 CX7 and I'm not even sure about that. One single SX4 manual AWD.

I'm finding dozens of Subarus...not much else at all.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

What's his budget? I have gotten the impression he is trying to replace it [non-permissible content removed] for tat. So it sounds a bit compounded by trying to replace a known car with relatively high miles, with an unknown with fewer miles but for similar cash outlay.

Maybe he would like my CRV? But I am doubtful he wants to spend that much.
It has a lot of equipment, but no leather or sunroof. Extra clean, 51k miles.

I've been told I need to take a financial hit because it is a stick, but I'm not buying it. The trick also is, that when you find a stick, you want to make sure it is the right one that hasn't been abused. I maintain that you don't need a bunch of buyers. All you need is one and if you're patient, sticks hold their value just fine and are sought after...but just by a small group of buyers. Your brother and myself and various others around here are in that group.

ateixeira · February 2011

I have only had a couple of quick conversations with him, but I think he's willing to add some funds and get a nicer used car, or even a new car for around $20-22k.

At first he said he wanted an AWD convertible, so I sent him links to a few Audi S4 drop-tops, but I doubt he'll go for those - he drives TONS of miles so he needs something fuel efficient, preferably on regular gas.

I think if he goes with a small crossover he'd buy new, since it fits his budget. Honda dropped the 5 speed, sadly. In theory a lot of folks make them, but I've only been able to find Foresters and Grand Vitaras. To be fair I haven't searched too hard.

He did first say he wanted a sedan, though. Audi, Subaru, Mitsubishi offer them. Kizashi AWD is auto only. He doesn't trust Audi reliability and it would have to be used, plus they use premium fuel. EVO is nice but I doubt he'd go that extreme. A Ralliart or WRX might work, but stretch the budget new.

So back to another Legacy, or an Impreza, or a Suzuki SX4 maybe.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

Why has he ruled out CRV sized SUV's? Fuel economy on mine is probably very similar to a boxer 2.5. Maybe 1 or 1.5 less cuz it sits higher? The Honda is known for better FE than the Sube 2.5 tho. Torque is 162 ft-lb at only 3600 rpm which is lower than many measurements. Usually they are at 4000 or even 4500. I know the Sube has nice torque, but at the cost of some fuel. CRV is a roomier too I think. Weighs 3366.
More info in 40403 and 40351.

ateixeira · February 2011

He hasn't - but the new one doesn't come with a manual any more. I can ask him, but I doubt he'd want the old body style.

Our other brother has the newer CR-V so he's familiar with it. Ironically his wife drive a Forester, also in Brazil, and we took both on a road trip along the coast and the Subaru was more fuel efficient, FWIW.

Cars.com and Motorweek compared them and preferred the new Forester. Mileage was withing 0.6 mpg plus it had the AWD handicap - I bet it would have beat an AWD CR-V.

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGuides/Story.jsp?section=SUV&subject=stories&st- ory=crossoverMileage&referer=&year=New&aff=national

The 2011 Forester got a new FB25 engine that has a timing chain (no belt to replace, ever) and 174 lb-ft of torque, plus a 1mpg improvement city/highway. It was the 3rd most fuel efficient in that test despite the full-time AWD, the only AWD model in the test.

We have a bunch of both brands in the family, his mom has a Civic in Brazil and an Outback here in the USA. Our sister drives a Forester. All have been good cars, to be honest. That's why he's looking at another Subaru, great past experiences.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

That new Sube engine has some issues I thought I read somewhere? Stuff I'm sure they will work out of course.
The new CRV is a bigger heavier vehicle than the 05, 06's.

The Sube mpg shown also due to the CVT no doubt. I am getting so i take a lot of these 'tests' with a grain of salt. I only trust what I get or someone I can talk to and determine for myself whether they are credible or not. I have had ridiculous conversations with people, who, later i figured out they didn't really know how to calculate and was guesstimating by the gauge when they filled back up. And most gauges linger at full a while before they start to come down. Not that that means anything anyway, but i'm sure u get my point.

I believe only real world, and i prefer 4-season-at-the-end-of-a-year-real-world. I can tell you my average mpg over the entire term of ownership of most of my cars, trucks and bikes. I even go straight to the gas stn to 'refill' the tank that supposedly the dealership filled when I buy new. Often it takes 2 or 3 more gallons. I can even tell you how much gas I have put in my chainsaws, lawnmowers, ATV etc etc. Yes, I am a bit anal about my fuel usage records. It stems from having my own heavy truck, and fuel bills are your largest bills, so in effect the largest portion of potential profit if less fuel is used. I also am very diligent about records because if you have a sensor go off, often mpg will be your first tell-tale sign. But I know most don't care about stuff like that.

I have found that if you read enough posts here in Edmunds under real world threads, you can get a pretty good idea also.

ateixeira · February 2011

Head gaskets, but that was 2003 and prior, so it won't affect the cars he's considering.

Just got an e-mail from him, he's now looking for a used MazdaSpeed6. Could be a good value, since they didn't hold their values as well as EVO/WRX/Legacy GT.

I suggested the 6 speed manual Legacy GT spec.B. Here's a comparo:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/all-wheel-drive-sport-sedans/cone-c- runching_mayhem-21_page_11

I'd be looking for that gorgeous blue/black two-tone interior they had the 2nd year, IIRC.

FWIW that Forester still had the 4EAT, no CVT yet, though it's coming. Consumer Reports said the 5MT got 2mpg better, too, their best mpg ever from a crossover this side of the Ford Escape hybrid.

I follow all the Subaru threads (and the 2001-2006 CR-V thread as well) and both are exemplary in fuel efficiency for their class. We also own a 2009 Forester Limited.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

No I am talking about the brand new engine. I just read it about 3 weeks ago, somewhere. I forget what it was. I'll see if i made a draft of it in my Sube folder and let you know. Here in Cda they are all CVT (not sure about Forester as they didn't have one when i was in). Well not in the Impreza, but the Legacy and Outback. Legacy offers the 6 sp stick but only in the lower output turbo. (which is fine by me) I have heard reliability issues with the WRX..not sure if true or not though. Seems to me it too was engine or turbo related, can't remember.

qbrozen · February 2011

Look for a 2.0T VW sedan/wagon with quattro.

Or a Volvo S60R.

ateixeira · February 2011

Forester and Impreza get the 4EAT or a 5 speed manual for now. CVT should come soon.

WRX has trans issues in 2002, but they were short-lived. It's been consistently reliable. There was a crankshaft bearing issue but those were fixed and covered under extended warranty.

Do you have something against Subaru? :confuse:

I am on my 3rd, the shopper survived a crash in his with 126k miles on it, his sister, his sister-in-law, his mother, our cousin...nothing beats personal experience and our family has had nothing but good experiences in various Subarus over the years. Not a single exception, probably over a million miles.

Every model has its issues (PTTR may ring a bell for you), so we don't expect perfection.

ateixeira · February 2011

Are manuals common with 4Motion/Quattro?

Audi's already on his list.

Doubt he'd get a Volvo since his roommate got buried in repair costs in one.

isellhondas · February 2011

I think there is something like a 500-700 deduct in the books for a stick so it's not that big of a deal considering they were bout 800.00 less than an AT when new.

As you said, there is certainly nothng "wrong" with them it's just a matter of finding a person like yourself who really wants one and those people certainly are out there. Just not that many of them.

isellhondas · February 2011

His roommate could have become buried in repair costs had they owned an Audi too. Maybe even worse!

And, no, manuals aren't "common" in Quattros but they do make them and we used to actually see a fair amount of them.

ateixeira · February 2011

The difference is he doesn't know any Audi owners.

I actually suggested the 05+ Acura RL, but then I remembered it was automatic only.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

"Do you have something against Subaru?"

No! Absolutely not. In fact it is on my list, and is why I have kept my ears and eyes open to weaknesses. I can't find where I read that, but am pretty sure I am not imagining it. It might have been something about cracking pistons, but don't hold me to that as I simply can't remember what it was. Whatever it was, it is something that has surfaced with the new engine. I'm sure you/we will read more about it or there must be some chat on forums somewhere about it.

I am particularly sensitive to being the guinea pig though on first new model years. I have been lucky and i have been unlucky.

Perhaps you will remember I had an 89 XT6? And had basically nothing bad to say about it. I bought it used when I was about to buy a new Loyale wagon. I decided against the Loyale as it was pre FI days, and it had a very annoying carburation glitch that ultimately I decided it was a deal-breaker. It was most noticeable with a stick. Can't remember what it did exactly and where, but it was a flat spot that was at a rev range that you use 90% of the time. I asked about it, they seemed to not acknowledge they felt what i was feeling, but of course the autos masked it. To this day I liked the boxy simplistic shape of the Loyale wagon. it had great room, visibility and I know I am in the minority, but i really liked its look. As it turns out, they did not resist rust well as I went looking for another years later when they became FI, but then shortly they were replaced with the Impreza I guess.

Sorry if i sounded like i was getting down on Subes. Not so. I am critical and complimentary of all cars. ALL. I feel I am extremely fair in my assessments of all cars be it pointing out their strengths or weaknesses. Cuz to the best of my recollection I hold no biases or grudges, other than I did swear I would boycott Ford due to a horrendous injustice with my 88 F150 when the paint came off in 1990. Long story..I have told it before, won't go into it again now, here especially. Its a shame too cuz i am drawn to more than one Ford product in the past year. I doubt i will renege on my boycott tho. Principles and morals are all we have when u get right down to it. If more people stood rigid and if the mfgrs were smart enough to not call their bluff, we would not have as much crap go on when people have legitimate beefs with their cars. But I blame the consumer/voter, cuz they are usually the ones who 'forget' past BS, so the mfrgs and politicians get to screw you all over again. Boycotts baby..it's the way it should be...especially if it was practiced more widely by consumers who stand firm.

FWIW, if Ford, even to this day, made right their wrong 20 years ago, (with interest) I would give them another chance...but i won't be holding my breath, however, as it seems they will survive without me. But they have lost out on selling me 5 new vehicles since 1990, so i hope it hurt them a little at least).

ateixeira · February 2011

Cool, it just seemed like you were looking for a reason to avoid those cars...

The piston issue was on the STI IIRC, and fairly rare. You hear about it because those are the owners who are on-line all the time and often high profile moderators.

The FB25 engine is brand new, only the Forester has had it and even then only about a month or so.

I hear you about the v1.0 thing, but Subaru tends to fix and put a 7/100 warranty on issues like we've mentioned. I guess I simply have faith that Subaru would fix whatever issue came up. It doesn't hurt that I have a few friends who work there.

I don't recall the XT6 but I believe you, no reason not to.

Back to my brother...obviously he drives long distances, lives in Frederick MD and has a long commute, so reliability is key. Fuel economy and range are also important, lots of long drives.

I also pointed to the Acura TL Type S SH-AWD with a manual, but didn't that only come out last year? Price it too high new, and they haven't depreciated enough yet to get down in his price range.

Audi guys told me to suggest the S4, perhaps because the V8 is more reliable than the 2.0FSI and V6 models? Not sure. But those guzzle gas, though they are NICE as all get out. I took a road trip in one to Philly and back, it's arguably worth the fuel bill.

He just e-mailed me - he really wants to go sample a MazdaSpeed6, I told him go ahead. I found them nose heavy, and just heavy overall. I believe those have the Haldex AWD a-la-Volvo, but I didn't like them as much as I expected to (we've owned 3 Mazdas, so disappointed).

I suggested the Legacy GT and GT spec.B. The latter had summer tires and Bilstein shocks as well as the 6 speed manual gearbox from the STI. Heck of a car, but rare as heck. I doubt he'll find a clean one.

Watch - he'll end up in another base Legacy sedan, like the one that was just totalled. In the end he's a practical, no-nonsense guy, so I predict he'll make a safe pick like that.

houdini1 · February 2011

Years ago our wood shingle roof was severely damaged in a hail storm. I think our insurance company paid out about $12,000.

The roof was about 12 years old at the time, so it turned out to be a good deal for us. When the adjuster was going over the numbers with me I noticed that he had made a $500. mistake in our favor. I couldn't sign the agreement fast enough.

Later I wondered if he had made the obvious mistake on purpose so I wouldn't quibble with him. You don't suppose a car salesman would use a little trick like that?

explorerx4 · February 2011

I don't know if I would want to base my decision on that test. They only covered 145 miles, less than 1/2 a tank, and didn't even use any test equipment, just the built in dash read out.
I would agree that they were all pretty close.

ateixeira · February 2011

Indeed, they mentioned how close they all were. Still, impressive that the Subaru was right up there despite the AWD handicap.

Wonder if Ford shoulda sent an Edge instead?

For me that test doesn't carry a lot of weight - I would want a crossover because of the AWD, not without it.

May as well call it a tall station wagon test.

igozoomzoom · February 2011

My brother has decided to get rid of his 2007 Lexus IS 250. It's in PERFECT condition inside and out and has always been serviced by the Lexus dealership. It has 57,000 miles, Silver (Tungsten Pearl, to be specific) with Black leather and the only option other the 6-speed automatic transmission is the accessory rear spoiler. Edmunds is showing the lowest trade-in value at $16,670, KBB is at $17,550 and NADA is a joke with 'Clean' Trade-in value of $19,050.

He lives in Birmingham, Alabama and hopes to sell it to a local used car superstore that buys used vehicles (a local version of Carmax). Thoughts???

isellhondas · February 2011

My only thought is why doesn't he just try to sell it himself instead of wholesaling it to a store that will probably make a couple of grand on it?

Is he buying something else?

If so, depending on the state, if he trades it in he may qualify for a credit on the sales tax which can amount to a lot of money!

igozoomzoom · February 2011

"My only thought is why doesn't he just try to sell it himself instead of wholesaling it to a store that will probably make a couple of grand on it?

Is he buying something else?

If so, depending on the state, if he trades it in he may qualify for a credit on the sales tax which can amount to a lot of money!"

I said the same exact thing to him just last night- to put it in the AutoTrader for $17,900 and see if anyone bites! But he is actually closing on a new house here in Atlanta next Friday and wants to unload the car before then. He doesn't want to deal with bringing the car over from Birmingham, registering it in Georgia and all that hassle just to turn around and sell it.

He is lucky enough to have a company-provided vehicle for both personal and professional use...so he doesn't really need a personal vehicle. He even gets to choose what vehicle he wants, the color combo and he can choose options/upgrades if he wants to pay for them out of his pocket. Right now he has a 2009 Ford Escape that kinda sucks (4cyl, but it does have leather, SYNC & moonroof)...but he has a 2011 Fusion SEL ordered, which isn't so bad.

So no, he isn't buying another vehicle- just selling one.

qbrozen · February 2011

Audi's already on his list.

The reason I say VW and not Audi is because VW's do have better resale value and typically have less electronics to cause problems. It seems to me that a majority of the Audi problems are electrical.

qbrozen · February 2011

Without working it as a trade-in, they will probably be at $15k.

ateixeira · February 2011

He would buy something like that used, so high resale could be a disadvantage.

qbrozen · February 2011

But HOW used. Even a 3-year-old Audi has a long way to drop.

And, don't get me wrong, VWs don't have HIGH resale (GTI is as good as it gets... the sedans are much worse), but they have better resale than Audi.

But, for example, an '08 A4 2.0T quattro manual with 40k has a trade value of $17k. So... what was that? $35k new? So about 50% of new. A comparable '06 is worth $11k, or about 65% of what you paid used 2 years earlier.

I was going to give another comparison using VW .... but I can't seem to configure an '08 VW sedan with 2.0T and AWD. Hmmmmmm.... maybe they didn't make any??

ateixeira · February 2011

I see what you mean, get past the steep part of the depreciation curve.

I did that with an 93 Miata. Drove it for more miles than the original owner did, yet my cost was next to nothing.

28firefighter · February 2011

I see what you're saying about the depreciation curve Q, but don't you think that maybe the 06 would be cheaper than the 07/08 because you have a german car without warranty at that point (likely most won't be certified)?

Kirstie_H · February 2011

2002 Ford Escape XLT - 4WD, 3.0 6 cyl
91K miles
Leather, power stuff, moonroof, tires look really good
Kicker - it's bright yellow, gray interior

Kansas City area. Whatcha think?

isellhondas · February 2011

kirstie,

Don't you drive a lot? If so, 91K is getting up there a bit.

But, if the price is right and you get a good shop to check it out, it could be a good car for you.

The yellow is a love it or hate it color. No middle ground on that one!

Kirstie_H · February 2011

I used to, but I have been averaging fewer than 800 miles per month for the last year or more. That's why I'm willing to take something with higher mileage, for the benefit of having NO payment, and a stash in the bank to pay for any maintenance or repair.

isellhondas · February 2011

I used to steer my customers toward higher mile cars if they didn't drive much. They can be a great value and often, they are in much better shape than cars with a lot less miles.

If you are only driving 10,000 miles a year that Excape could last for many years. Just get it checked out by a quality shop.

stickguy · February 2011

I have been boom or bust. Last couple of years, I put about 20K on my accord (each year)/ Before that, maybe 6-7K.

I just got my oil changed yesterday. Last time I did it was 4/1/2010, and I just broke 4K since then (10.5 months). Poor thing needs more exercise.

5 years and 2 months old, just about to crack 60K.

Kirstie_H · February 2011

That's the task for this afternoon, getting it checked out.

I can't wait to see if these people are as good & honest as they state they are. Their website has a bunch of language about how they don't sell crappy used cars, all are as advertised, they don't play price games, blah blah... and when i emailed to make sure the vehicle was available, the guy wrote back and said yes, and it will be exactly as pictured - no surprises. I'll be spreading their name far & wide if they mean it.

isellhondas · February 2011

Be careful. I've learned that the more a store pats themselves on the back the more they need to be watched.

I would make a BIG deal out of it being yellow even if you happen to like it.

Kirstie_H · February 2011

Yeah, I kind of plan to be iffy on the yellow. I posted a link in sales stories to the actual vehicle - the bonus is that it looks super-clean, interior seems almost new. I'm not financing or anything, so hopefully if the vehicle is right, the whole transaction will be straightforward.

Edit:
The other vehicle I'm looking at is a 2004 BMW 325xi - white/tan leather, 121K miles, all of the toys - heated seats, back-up sensor, navigation, power moonroof - for $9900.

My concern with that is the high mileage and that I might be asking for a world of maintenance & repair pain.

isellhondas · February 2011

You should be concerned about that BMW.

Repair costs can be staggering.

cdnpinhead · February 2011

on the BMW is that it all comes down to who owned and maintained it for those 121K miles. If it was one owner and you could quiz them on how the maintenance was handled, that'd be huge. If it's a pig in a poke, I'd run away. If it was owned by a real car person and maintained per the schedule in effect before the "free maintenance" was instituted, it could be great.

ateixeira · February 2011

I dunno, that Bimmer is 2 years newer, and still has AWD to get you around.

That escape had better be a lot cheaper. What's the asking price again?

Real-World Trade-In Values

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles