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Personally I perfer my vintage Lord Elgins and Hamiltons though.
Uh oh...you don't pull a Bobst, do you?
Car_man
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I won't ask for a discount. I think that's tacky but that's just me.
And, Happy Holidays to all of you out there. Just because we don't always agree doesn't mean we don't have a lot in common.
If you want, I can make a far fetched connection between fine watches and cars (but, don't get me started with that....it'll get ugly)!
; )
Mackabee
Did I go to far?
Terry.
And my '02 5-spd Mustang GT Convertible is really a 1960 Ford Falcon because they both have manual shifts
Actually, I had a '60 Falcon and my Mustang IS built about as well. But that's a different story.
They have no other car like it, in fact they don't even have another LXi convertible, only Limiteds and Tourings (former LXi model renamed and increased in price). So they are advertising a car they no longer have for a price they would have never sold at (I had offered $23000 before extra rebates came in to take the final price to $22,900).
I was/am satisfied that I got a good (probably great) price. I was just wondering if what they are doing is legal.
David
Its been nearly 3 years since I last posted on this board. You guys were very helpful in the past, need your insight again....
Currently leasing a car - 2 payments left. Now looking to purchase (moving from a wagon to minivan...don't ask...). At a Honda dealer the other day, the sale representative offered "buying out" the lease if I was interested in purchasing before lease end. He didn't get into specifics but made it seem as if they'd inspect my current car, buy it from the leasing company, then get into a new car.
I'm sure he didn't mean another tactic that a local Ford dealer tried on me - "we'll write a check to you for last 2 payments", then incorporate that amount in your new car payment.
Question is: Do dealers buy out existing leases? How do they do this? Pitfills to be aware of?
Thx and have a happy holiday.
Rick
As for the price, I'd bet that the price is with a $2000 downpayment/$2000 trade. That's a pretty common advertising tactic.
Either that or you just overpaid by $2000. :^)
Now, you have to determine which way is better: rolling in two payments to the price of the new car or building in any negative equity by having the dealer buy it out.
The first dealer intended to send the car back after you paid the last two payments.
The second dealer intends to keep the car so they would have to pay the current lease buyout price to do so.
So, lets say your payments are $500 x 2 = $1000.
And let's say the lease buyout amount is $15,000 but the car is only worth $13,000 to the dealership. In this case it wouldn't make sense for the dealership to keep your car because they would have to roll $2000 into the new deal compared with only $1000 by paying the last two payments.
On the other hand, if the car was was worth $15,500 to the dealership you would have $500 in equity that you could use as money down on the new car.
Some domestic manufacturers are now offering to get leasees out of their remaining payments - in effect, "forgiving" the last 3-6-? monthly lease payments on lease contracts they wrote years ago in order to move new vehicles more quickly. It's a like for like deal - i.e., a GM lease gets shortened... but you roll into another GM lease, etc.
About the same as a cash incentive - just applied with different language to a lease-prone buyer.
Mark i agree. We used to have a Sam's membership, but use Cotco now. I hardly ever buy anything at a walmart and try not to shop there.
Audi--excellent point. The information that I have seen is that walmart prices are so low just because of what you said, that they squeeze their suppliers. With no supplier to squeeze, they were like a duck out of water.
Happy Holidays to all, and may everyone have a prosperous 2004.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
What they did was lease out space, part of their parking lot, to another corporation which actually did the car sales.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html
My company deals with a large brand name manufacturer who works with WalMart. WM basically tells them what they are going to buy, how much they will buy, and how much they will pay for it. It is the manufacturer's worry how to do it. And they come back every year asking for a price decrease. Sounds like that guy that ran VW purchasing Juan...(required automotive content).
But keep in mind that Home Depot, Lowes, Target all do the same thing but since WalMart is the real 800# gorilla, they get the most press.
MAny times the hapless vendor has invested a lot of money in plant expansion in order to be able to fill the orders.
Then the rug gets pulled out from them.
This is why a lot of manufacturers don't want their business. They refuse to be dictated to by a "customer". Good for them!
But on the other side of that coin, there is some great benefits for the customer .. at Home Depot, if they start having more than a 2.5/3.0% failure and/or return rate they shut the vendor off, and thats a good thing .. bad floor tiles, hand tools, Barbecue grills, lighting, etc ..
All we need to do now, is to get the suppliers for the auto manufacturers to get that attitude going for them .l.o.l..
Terry ;-)
All the appliance manufacturers (read that as GE and Whirlpool) sign contracts that require a 3% PRICE REDUCTION every year for its components manufacturers. The manufacturers realize that they either cut the cost or their margins or they lose the business.
I have seen GM come storming into a NON-UNION low cost supplier and demand an overnight 25% price reduction or they'll move the business.
Ever hear of DELL?? They require that their components manufacturers reduce prices a minimum of 10% EVERY year or they'll move the business. That is why you have seen the components plants moving from SoCal to Mexico in the 80's, to urban China in the '90s and now to more remote Chinese plants in rural areas in the '00s. In other words, you can't produce PCB in Mexico or Hong Kong, as it is too expensive to do so.
Now, the INEFFICIENT big 3 grocery chains (Albertsons, Krogers, and Safeway) who are losing market share - they will generally pay the manufacturer's price. However, they demand SLOTTING FEES up the yin-yang. Therefore, you see the large consumer companies like Unilever, P&G, etc. buying out the smaller manufacturers and taking greater control of the shelf space.
Home Depot takes a completely different approach. They don't squeeze all that hard for the lowest price. However, they want to transfer as much of the SG&A costs to the. They want rebates for advertising, volume rebates, freight between stores. They also want the manufacturer to take back ANYTHING that is returned. Buy a power tool at HD, use it for a project, put it back in the box, and HD will take it back and send it back the the manufacturer. Been at the receiving end of truckloads of once-used stuff. It ain't pretty.
Do realize that most of the Anti-WalMart websites are funded by ... SURPRISE ... the UFCW. By the way, the SoCal UFCW turned down a proposed $4.25 per hour contribution to the union's health fund. Most non-automotive US manufacturers contribute about $3-3.25 per hour for hourly health plans. I know as I cut some huge checks for health plans. (KFI-640 Los Angeles posted the original offer around 10-18-03.)
If you want a balanced and honest critique of WM and the large grocery chains, see www.morningnewsbeat.com where they call it down the middle.
Where do they go from there? The next stop after $0.05/hour is slave labor. And even that has some cost involved. I am all for globalisation and free trade, but it needs to be used to bring those third world countries up to US and European standards, not drag us down to those kinds of wages, as is what is happening today.
"People ask, 'How can it be bad for things to come into the U.S. cheaply? How can it be bad to have a bargain at Wal-Mart?' Sure, it's held inflation down, and it's great to have bargains," says Dobbins. "But you can't buy anything if you're not employed. We are shopping ourselves out of jobs."
"Wal-Mart has also lulled shoppers into ignoring the difference between the price of something and the cost. Its unending focus on price underscores something that Americans are only starting to realize about globalization: Ever-cheaper prices have consequences. Says Steve Dobbins, president of thread maker Carolina Mills: "We want clean air, clear water, good living conditions, the best health care in the world--yet we aren't willing to pay for anything manufactured under those restrictions."
"It's Wal-Mart in the role of Adam Smith's invisible hand. And the Milwaukee employees of Master Lock who shopped at Wal-Mart to save money helped that hand shove their own jobs right to Nogales. Not consciously, not directly, but inevitably."
I look at their success and what they represent (the lowest price) as our own fault. We're willing to look past the fact that things can only be so inexpensive - WalMart represents over 10% of our country's imports from China but we love those cheap prices.
And do they buy them at Costco?
A few years back, I had a friend who took a year off after law school to work with the IGWLU to organize the South Carolina textile plants of JP Stevens who produced a lot of the sheets, pillow cases, etc. for the major retailers. All she talked about was 1) how bad the working conditions were, 2) how the employers did not pay living wages (<$5 an hour in the mid-'80s) and 3)the lack of any real benefits.
What she described almost matched the experiences of my friends' mothers who worked in some of the sewing (business suits) plants in Cleveland, OH. Low pay, piecemeal work. The plants only hired recent immigrants (mostly Italian)and worked their fingers to the bone. Few benefits. People only worked there until they could learn English and find something better (or in the case of most women, until they got married and quit working.
Now, everyone is bemoaning the loss of those jobs?
I don't think so. If those jobs would come back to the US tomorrow, I think that you would have one heck of a time finding people to fill those positions.
Personally, I have a couple of people nearby who have spend MONTHS trying to recruit 50 MIG welders with any experience who can pass the drug test and who have the proper documentation to work in the US.
I know of at least two other manufacturers in the area who are off-shoring products because they can't get find people to work (and yes, they have called the state employment agencies and gone through all of the usual channels.) And they pay a LOT more ($12-16) than the local WalMart with medical benefits (80/20).
This has been a real frustrating point for me personally. Everyone tells me that there are no *GOOD* jobs available yet, from the period 1997-2003 (except during 4Q 2001-Q2 2003)it has been hard to find good people.
Unless the US encourages MORE immigration (which I don't see happening), I don't see how we will have the skilled machine trades in this country to support the level of manufacturing that we currently have.
BTW, other than medication, I don't buy that much at WalMart. I shop at the smaller ethnic markets for groceries because the price and quality are better. I don't buy clothes or softlines at WalMart because I can usually beat their prices by 10-15% and get a better quality at the same time. And the stores are a mess.
Everybody, have a good Christmas holiday.
I must respectfully disagree with your and/or your friends comments. I was an employed by JP Stevens in SC in 1982 and 1983. Of their 60 some plants at the time, the only one in SC that produced bedding sheets, etc. was in Clemson, SC. This was a clean, well maintained plant with many long term workers who were happily employed. Their working conditions were very good, their pay was competitive for the area, and their benefits during this period rivaled any of the top manufacturers.
I detest this type of drival on the internet.
Round up your lawyer friend, get a 12 pack of Bud, watch Norma Rae and enjoy.
Transplanted Southerner,
Jack
Let's not get into Retail 101... Wal-mart, Costco, or anyone else. Keep it automotive and no one puts coal in your stockings
Season's Greetings!
kcram
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Smart Shopper and FWI Message Boards
Do enjoy the holiday!
Season's Greetings!
kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and FWI Message Boards
Duncan
I am considering a Volvo XC90 and my friends here say that it is in X-plan. So, Let us say I negotiate down to $2k off the MSRP and let us assume that, this is the best offer this dealer will make. Can I then pull out my X Plan number and say give me this additional discount too? Assuming the whole Xplan rebate amount is paid to the dealer by Ford/Volvo, there should not be any problem because the dealer is not losing anything. But I want to make sure that indeed is the case. Or is it that you cannot negotiate and then get the x-plan too?
There's no additional discount, the price is the price, and it's a good one.
You simply explain, at the beginning of shopping, that you're an x-plan buyer and they calculate the deal.