I wouldnt sign the scribbled messy sheet with other numbers on it.
I expect a certain level of professionalism and commitment from the salesman and dealer as well. Spend a minute to handwrite out the deal on a clean sheet of paper, and I'll initial it that I will buy at this price. Or print out a clean sheet off the computer, thats how it was done when I was shopping last spring.
Think about this: if the salesguy wants to me to sign to "commit" and then it's turned down, why did I need to commit to it in the first place?..." ------------------------ It's all part of the negotiating process...once you agree to a price, even if its below cost, I know have an established floor price that you will buy the car. This is alot closer to a sale than a guy who is just sitting there while we toss numbers in his direction. I also know I have a real buyer. Many consumers would be amazed to see how many dreamers and non-real buyers want to haggle to the last penny when they arent really buying. When asking for a buying comitment with the offer the dreamers always start stuttering with excuses why they won't back up the offer....
of course, if you tell me to "write it up", I'll do a hand-written buyers order and get you in line with the finance person.
The "initial here" concept is really not part of negotiation as much as it is to see if you're wasting our time.
If you say "I'm serious", then who cares about a set of initials? Do the deal!
Sitting back and whining that you won't commit because "it's not a contract" is laughable at best considering the real reason you won't commit is because you want us to give you a price to shop all over the region. When we call you on it, you get defensive. Understandable, but unacceptable.
isell - I wouldn't fire anyone over initials if they're selling cars. I'd fire someone who was burning through customers like cordwood, not spending good time with them, and doing write-ups without any form of committment - if you sit someone down and start writing up a deal, as you know, without a real committment, all you're doing is loading someone up for a shopping trip.
I'm in the business of selling vehicles. I AM NOT in the business of handing out prices for shopping trips so people can take all my people's time and resources, then buy down the street for $20 less.
I really didn't make myself clear. I'm not asking all posters on the board to get along. I enjoy the stories and different ideas as well. My point was/is this: If the car buyer and salesperson get along, i.e, get to know and trust each other, it'll more than likely result in a pleasant, quick, straight forward sales process.
I like buying from someone I know and can trust. I assume that the salespros like selling to someone they know and can trust.
I have 2 questions for you. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to make sense of this thread.
1. Do people really take your price, go "down the street", and accept a unit at $20 less? I don't mean has it ever happened anywhere at any time, but does it routinely happen?
2. If someone would do that, do you want them for a customer?
1) Yes, happens more frequently than I'd like, usually because the "shopper mentality" wasn't diagnosed by the salesperson. It happens routinely over $20, or $50, and it's usually when the person sees a red car and compares it to another red car and doesn't look at option groups and separate options.
It's only a warm fuzzy, but it does feel good knowing that a customer beat our price by $50, BUT didn't get the $1100 sunroof!
2) Unless someone is a total jerk as is going to trash my salesperon's attitude AND the store's CSI, I want them as a customer - that means just about everybody.
what the general car-buying population is like. I insist that my salespeople bring a signature and a deposit with any offer before I will look at it. This policy has been put in place because virtually everyone that verbally agrees that they are serious and will buy if the offer is accepted end up making excuses and leaving when it is. If someone doesn't want to put their money where their mouth is and leaves I consider it merely a savings of time for me and my salesperson.
It would be all well and good to be able to accept someones word but frankly, most people's word means absolutely nothing.
Landru, if you don't mind, this bears repeating. You said it much better than I've been able to:
"This policy has been put in place because virtually everyone that verbally agrees that they are serious and will buy if the offer is accepted ends up making excuses and leaving when it is. If someone doesn't want to put their money where their mouth is and leaves I consider it merely a savings of time for me and my salesperson."
"If you say "I'm serious", then who cares about a set of initials? Do the deal!
Sitting back and whining that you won't commit because "it's not a contract" is laughable at best considering the real reason you won't commit is because you want us to give you a price to shop all over the region."
Bzzt. Wrong. You certainly have the experience to know that a lot of car "buyers" may do this--but you certainly don't know that's what I'm doing. And this may sound totally nitpicky, but to me, initials are different than a signature. Is that stupid? Maybe. But since YOU say it's not enforceable anyway, the best you'll get from me--on a clean, neat, clear offer sheet is my initials. My signature won't get anywhere near something that isn't a contract. Again, to me, my time is more valuable than running all over to shop the price for $50 or even $250. Give me a reasonable price, I'll pay it. I wouldn't be talking money unless I was ready to buy.
audia, I totally understand that in a salesperson's/SM's position, you need a way to sort the shoppers from the buyers and if the psychological offer sheet works to get people to commit to your number, I don't see any harm in it. Again, this is not a "all dealers and salespeople are the most horrible people" rant. I simply object to placing my signature on a scribble scratch piece of paper.
It doesn't matter if drift or anyone else thinks that is unrealistic or whatever. It is my money and I'll happily spend it at your store--but I don't like what I see as a game to judge my committment.
Do people actually give you a deposit with their offers without you committing to that offer? I would never give anything of value to a salesman until both sides are committed to the offer. If the dealer has a deposit, it gives them way too much leverage in negotiations. When the dealer asks for a credit card or a deposit before we have an agreement, it tells me that the dealer just wants to keep me in the store and work me over as long as they feel like it. My time is too valuable for that kind of nonsense. I am like Bobst, here is my offer, if we are not within a couple of hundred in ten minutes, I am out there. Granted, if I make an offer, it is something thet I know I can buy the car for from somebody else.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand why you are asking for the deposit, I am just amazed that it actually works.
CUSTOMER AGREES TO BUY AND DRIVE "TODAY" THE 2004 XXXX IF BOTH PARTIES AGREE ON PRICE AND PAYMENTS.
signX_________________________
depositX_________________________
You guys are all over the place with this after 30 some posts ...
Here's the reason: most folks that go shopping for vehicles are shopping for more than one vehicle and different brands .. most get confused (or don't tell the truth) on the options, most will pull themselves "off" the orginal "target" vehicle and move themselves into the Sport pack with the 18" wheels, the Nav system and the slider, most don't compare apples to apples -or- they have a false perceived value and/or most important, they don't have the decision maker with them ~ "Mrs. Buyer" ..
About a week ago, I had a customer pounding away on one of my sales guys for us to "meet" or beat the price of a new Kia Amanti vs a 03 pre-owned 5k silver Avalon XLS .. obviously we weren't comparing apples to apples, or in this case, Caviar to turnips .l.o.l. my car was priced at $28,9 and their new car thing was priced at a MSRP of $28,200 ..
I was "told" they can buy this new car thing for $26 even, plus the TTL .. I asked them, "would you buy and drive my vehicle away today, IF, I "was" to sell this Avalon for $26 even.? .. "No" I was told, they want me to beat the price by $500 (I owned it for $25,750) .. So I said, I'm going outside to smoke a cigarette, give me your Visa card and I will think about it for the next 7 minutes, we will either have a deal, or we won't .. his response was "well, I will think about it, I like the Kia a little better" -- in the meantime, I sold the Kia store to my ex-partner in 98 and we talk all the time and I knew he had to pay $28,200 for the vehicle, who's smoking who here ..! .l.o.l....
The point being, most of the folks that roll around here are pretty smart, they really do "good" homework, they read the stuff here, instead of just seeing the printed letters .. that's why it might be a little hard for most folks here to "understand", because you are a Small minority, that guy who lives up the street from you, the guy 2 offices down the hall, the cuties on the third floor or the guy you play cards with doesn't take the time to do proper homework, they will Shop til' they drop - and heaven forbid, let's not forget the guy who is shopping payments "only" and unfortunately, they are the large Majority, they just don't tell their neighbors .........
you said exactly what i was aiming for. a good sales professional...in ANY type of sales...will ask questions simply to see a reaction, so they can gauge their prospect.
for most of you on here with issues about signing an offer, you are the exceptions rather than the rule when it comes to car buyers. MOST have no sense of what it means to keep to your word. the unfortunate part of it is that as salespeople, we have to play the odds, since we cannot read minds.
if i lose 1 deal this way, but save time with 5 others by doing this, i can use that time to sell more cars. we must be VERY pragmatic about this, or we find ourselves taking up a 10 hour day with 2 non-buyers.
i hope this makes more sense.
also, about the "chicken scratch paper", i agree that the salesman should take his/her time and draw up a fresh worksheet for an offer. i do. what do the SM's think about this?
to chicken scratch paper, the back of your business card, a matchbook from 8-Ball's Pool Hall, or a kleenex -
If you're talking to a live human being about a vehicle, where the human is getting ready to discuss the possibility of a many-thousand dollar purchase, use a real write-up sheet (whatever your store uses).
I've seen and heard of salespeople writing numbers on a business card - what's that for? So they can have a convenient wallet size version to use when they shop the next 14 dealers?
driftracer: I would initial beside my offer figure. Yours was the first post that mentioned initials, not a signature.
landru2: I would not give a deposit in order to have my offer taken to the higher-up for approval. Demanding that would be a sure way to lose this serious shopper. But maybe it's what works for your store. I believe the horror stories of dealing with the car-buying public, I really do.
I just had the best car buying experience, thanks to the edmunds website and most importantly these message boards. I went to my local dealer asked for their lowest price on a new pacifica, I showed them the edmunds printout, they matched it. I then shopped around and found someone $1,000 less than invoice(before rebates) I called the local dealer and told them what I had found and we met in the middle. They also agreed to order the exact car I wanted. I was very honest with them but they treated me with full respect and they even threw in a free roof rack. I will continue to use this dealer and refer people to them. I also noticed they are the hardest working group of people I have met. IF anyone is buying a car in Maine I can send you to a good dealership.
Buying our last 2 vehicles over the phone. The deal on the Dodge was all done, got down there, truck was detailed and ready to go.....hubby test drove it, gave the nod, signed the papers in Finance and we were gone, no muss, no fuss.
Same sorta thing with the Explorer, except I couldn't make up my mind and talked myself right out of the rebates. However, when it was all said and done, we got to good ole Cal, the Explorer was sitting outside all detailed ready to go. Salesman asked me if I wanted to test drive, I said nope, signed the papers, took the new truck, went and ate dinner, came back and got the winter wheels/tires from my 97 and whatever else out of it and was gone.
Now the only time I have to go near a car lot is to pick up hubby after he drops the said Dodge off for warranty work. Or to go visit a friend of mine at the GMC dealer and charm him into buying lunch....hehehe.
a deposit accompanies an offer that a car deal happens 80% of the time. When a customer refuses to give a deposit and will only give a verbal, "I'm serious," I'd say a car deal happens 10% of the time.
To those of you that say you wouldn't give a deposit with an offer, I can only say that I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I'm just telling you what results in sales and what does not.
I am now concentrating more on the used car side of the business than new. An interesting phenomenon that never occured with new cars is people actually offering to put down a deposit to "hold" a vehicle, invariably while they shop to see if they can find a better one. This happens so often that we have had to produce a new stamp for deposit receipts that says "Non-refundable." If the customer doesn't like that then we refuse to accept a deposit.
Landru, If my local dealer (see #6877) would have asked me for a deposit I would have walked. Instead, we built a mutual respect and trust and did the deal the "human" way. I would have been immediately on the defense if they would have asked me for money. You may even become more successful if you tried this? You sound smart and hardworking by the way.
About 2 years ago a new General Manager came on board that really believed in "nicing" customers to death. He outlawed the practice of getting deposits as part of his changes. The result was that sales plummeted. The store developed the reputation as the place to go to get great customer service and a great price, which you could then take down the street to be beaten. That GM was gone in nine months after almost destroying the sales departments.
It's strictly a business decision. It results in more sales. And sales is the only reason that the store exists. These objections to the idea of deposits are, IMHO, more an internet chat board thing than what really happens.
Of not signing or initialing your offer. If you're serious, why not sign it. What are you afraid of? That the sales peron will take it, and once around the corner, add a zero?
The asking for a sig is a psychological game played by the salesman to solidify commitment in your mind. See it for what it is, and don't trip over it. If I'm making a good offer, and the sales person wants me to sign it before he takes it to his boss, Who cares? If you know it's a mind game he's trying to play with you, doesn't it loose it's hold on you if you see it for what it is? Every car I've purchased in the last 10 years from a dealer has involved initialling offers during negotiation. Didn't bother me one bit, because I was serious, and would buy at the price I offered.
"It's strictly a business decision. It results in more sales. And sales is the only reason that the store exists. These objections to the idea of deposits are, IMHO, more an internet chat board thing than what really happens." -landru2
Fine, new-car offer deposits result in more sales for your store.
But, no, objections to deposits are not just an internet chat board thing.
Fortunately, deposits are NOT the norm in my part of the world. So it is not an issue 'round here. Hopefully it never will be.
Just like you get jerked around by shoppers, I expect that some dealership personnel would jerk shoppers around when asked to return the deposit if the offer was not accepted - the modern-day equivalent of throwing the keys to the prospective trade-in onto the roof.
you said: "Fortunately, deposits are NOT the norm in my part of the world. So it is not an issue 'round here. Hopefully it never will be."
and you know this how? are you present at all negotiations in your "part of the world"?
i see this type of statement being made quite often. i understand that you...along with bobst...havent had to deal with these things in your particular car deals, but please be realistic and know that most other deals are done differently than yours. people negotiate the same, and have the same goals...so the sales approach will be the same. but i will emphasize this again...the buyers on here ARE NOT representative of the general buying public.
Your point to suvshopper4 that (s)he is not present at all negotiations is a fair one. By the same token though you cannot say
but please be realistic and know that most other deals are done differently than yours.
the most you can say is that SOME deals are done differently.
In my experience (albeit in Canada) I have only ever been asked to sign a handwritten purchase agreement once. As far as deposits with offers goes again only once (different dealership) and it was returned promptly once our negotiations reached an unsuccessful conclusion. They did call me 90 minutes later to say they would do the deal but I had already bought across the road. Actually as it turns out I'm glad things worked out that way because it started my association with Toyota vehicles.
i understand your point also, but i have been doing this for awhile, and in different geological locations. not only am i present for all of my deals, but i witness dozens of deals a day by other salespeople....over several years. i think i am qualified to make a statement like the one i made.
with you suvshopper. I stated that it was in my opinion. I really don't care what you do when you buy. I'm not here to gain your approval. I'm just offering my perspective after spending the last 15 years selling cars to people.
...after they came back on our initial offer, I countered. Salesperson asked me if I would sign the counteroffer and give a $200 deposit if they would do the deal. I said yes, gave them my credit card, and we closed the deal. If worst came to worst and they're crooks you can always dispute credit charges.
thats the key...people who dont/wont sign an offer are simply afraid of the situation they are in. many people dont realize how "REAL" it is until they are asked to sign an offer.
Some of us who are not willing to sign an offer are not afraid of the situation. We just don't feel like signing. Since we are spending our money, we are going to do whatever we feel like doing.
If the salesman said they would only consider my offer if I stood on one foot, do you think I would do it? Of course not. I am certainly not afraid to stand on one foot, but if I don't feel like standing on one foot, I'm not going to do it.
like i said...the people in this forum are the exceptions rather than the rule. an experienced salesperson will ask questions to purposefully put a buyer on the spot. the initial reaction tells us whether time is being wasted or not. now...
having said that, i will still take your offer...but i wont promise a yes, no, or counter from my manager.
"Of not signing or initialing your offer. If you're serious, why not sign it. What are you afraid of? That the sales peron will take it, and once around the corner, add a zero?"
What I'm "afraid" of is I am being asked to "commit" without any assurance from the salesperson that they are committed. That is, I have to "commit" simply to get the SM to LOOK at the offer, much less agree to it. I give you a number, the SM agrees, I sign a contract, done.
"The asking for a sig is a psychological game played by the salesman to solidify commitment in your mind. See it for what it is, and don't trip over it."
Exactly. If I wanted psychological games, I'd do Rorshach tests for an hour with a therapist. Instead, I'd prefer to buy a car, since I'm at a car dealership. I certainly understand that any kind of sales requires some degree of psychology to encourage the buyer to buy. I have to do the same in my job. But, in my job, if you're signing, both of us are committed.
"in different geological locations."
Bowke, I can't let that pass without a :-)
"having said that, i will still take your offer...but i wont promise a yes, no, or counter from my manager."
Perfect! I can assure you, if he says yes, I will sign a binding contract. If he says no, I will increase my offer, since I probably misjudged the going rate on the vehicle. If he counters and it appears reasonably acceptable, I will likely agree. The point is, it's likely the only way I won't drive away with a vehicle, is if we are dramatically far apart. If I'm offering, I'm serious. I realize not everyone is this way and you put up with all kinds of bull that makes your job harder. I empathize and my objection isn't because I think it's sleazy or anything else. It's just personal--I sign what I want.
"What I'm "afraid" of is I am being asked to "commit" without any assurance from the salesperson that they are committed."
the dealer personnel are ALWAYS committed to selling a car. the reason for a commitment is to initiate proper negotiations, in a good faith manner. if we negotiate, and you are not ready to pull the trigger, then you havent negotiated in good faith.
also, as the buyer, its your job to initiate negotiations. this goes in ANY sale...not just cars. the commitment is simply to provide the "line" that you are crossing.
lastly, why would a SM commit to YOUR initial offer. thats the point of making an offer. if his name were on it BEFORE your offer, then it would be like signing a blank check.
Bowke28: also, as the buyer, its your job to initiate negotiations. this goes in ANY sale...not just cars. the commitment is simply to provide the "line" that you are crossing.
Is "How much" a valid way to start this process with you?
"How much" is not an offer, it's a question. Wanna reduce negotiation time? Do some research, figure out what people are paying for the model you've chosen, and make an offer. Be a little reasonable, and you might buy a car without both sides having to have therapy sessions afterwards.
is just like "what's your best price" - neither show commitment to purchase and neither are a guarantee that you won't run with whatever number you're given.
If you run, there's a 99% chance they'll never see you again - if you make an offer, instead of just fishing for a number, the whole scenario is better.
Why play the game of "what if", when you can say "I'll give you xx dollars and my trade"? You may still have to negotiate a little, but you won't have to deal with a two-hour stare-down...
I hate to ask or imply, but it requires HONESTY on the part of the consumer.
In 1984 I asked a salesman howmuch it would cost for a Honda Accord. He gave me a price and I took it.
In 1993 I asked a salesman what it would cost for a Honda, and he just pointed to the sticker.
In 1993 we asked a salesman how much it would cost for a Mazda 626. He went back and forth to the sales manager, but never gave me a price. It was weird.
After that experience I stopped asking for a price. You never know what they will say.
because most people aren't particularly comfortable with their ability to figure out what a realistic price is (insert usual disclaimer here about town hall junkies not being "normal" buyers). So, two things often happen if the buyer makes the first move:
1) they offer a rediculous amount (invoice-holdback on an MDX or some such deal) that is a non starter, and leads more likely to frustration than a deal
2) they offer more than the going rate, thereby leaving the proverbial money on the table.
In option 1, the dealer ends up having to make the first "real" offer anyway, unless they just show the buyer the door or the buyer decides to bid against himself. In option 2, the dealer grabs the deal, after an appropriate amount of soul searching to make sure the buyer knows he's practically robbing them blind.
I think my point is, everyone "knows" that MSRP isn't a real number, and expect dealers to offer a discount right off the top.
Personally, every time I've asked "what can you do on one of these", the sales person came back with a number. Not always a good one, but a number. This at least sets the initial price range (my "hope for" number, aka the Bobst figure, and what they offered being the high end).
The real point is I need to get back to work I think.
Comments
I expect a certain level of professionalism and commitment from the salesman and dealer as well. Spend a minute to handwrite out the deal on a clean sheet of paper, and I'll initial it that I will buy at this price. Or print out a clean sheet off the computer, thats how it was done when I was shopping last spring.
------------------------
It's all part of the negotiating process...once you agree to a price, even if its below cost, I know have an established floor price that you will buy the car. This is alot closer to a sale than a guy who is just sitting there while we toss numbers in his direction. I also know I have a real buyer. Many consumers would be amazed to see how many dreamers and non-real buyers want to haggle to the last penny when they arent really buying. When asking for a buying comitment with the offer the dreamers always start stuttering with excuses why they won't back up the offer....
The "initial here" concept is really not part of negotiation as much as it is to see if you're wasting our time.
If you say "I'm serious", then who cares about a set of initials? Do the deal!
Sitting back and whining that you won't commit because "it's not a contract" is laughable at best considering the real reason you won't commit is because you want us to give you a price to shop all over the region. When we call you on it, you get defensive. Understandable, but unacceptable.
isell - I wouldn't fire anyone over initials if they're selling cars. I'd fire someone who was burning through customers like cordwood, not spending good time with them, and doing write-ups without any form of committment - if you sit someone down and start writing up a deal, as you know, without a real committment, all you're doing is loading someone up for a shopping trip.
I'm in the business of selling vehicles. I AM NOT in the business of handing out prices for shopping trips so people can take all my people's time and resources, then buy down the street for $20 less.
I like buying from someone I know and can trust. I assume that the salespros like selling to someone they know and can trust.
Everyone has a story and this is mine,
Jack
1. Do people really take your price, go "down the street", and accept a unit at $20 less? I don't mean has it ever happened anywhere at any time, but does it routinely happen?
2. If someone would do that, do you want them for a customer?
It's only a warm fuzzy, but it does feel good knowing that a customer beat our price by $50, BUT didn't get the $1100 sunroof!
2) Unless someone is a total jerk as is going to trash my salesperon's attitude AND the store's CSI, I want them as a customer - that means just about everybody.
It would be all well and good to be able to accept someones word but frankly, most people's word means absolutely nothing.
"This policy has been put in place because virtually everyone that verbally agrees that they are serious and will buy if the offer is accepted ends up making excuses and leaving when it is. If someone doesn't want to put their money where their mouth is and leaves I consider it merely a savings of time for me and my salesperson."
I have even had deals accepted over the phone. We just went in, took the car for a test drive, gave them a check, and drove the new car home.
They were very friendly, and we were very happy with the deal.
Sitting back and whining that you won't commit because "it's not a contract" is laughable at best considering the real reason you won't commit is because you want us to give you a price to shop all over the region."
Bzzt. Wrong. You certainly have the experience to know that a lot of car "buyers" may do this--but you certainly don't know that's what I'm doing. And this may sound totally nitpicky, but to me, initials are different than a signature. Is that stupid? Maybe. But since YOU say it's not enforceable anyway, the best you'll get from me--on a clean, neat, clear offer sheet is my initials. My signature won't get anywhere near something that isn't a contract. Again, to me, my time is more valuable than running all over to shop the price for $50 or even $250. Give me a reasonable price, I'll pay it. I wouldn't be talking money unless I was ready to buy.
audia, I totally understand that in a salesperson's/SM's position, you need a way to sort the shoppers from the buyers and if the psychological offer sheet works to get people to commit to your number, I don't see any harm in it. Again, this is not a "all dealers and salespeople are the most horrible people" rant. I simply object to placing my signature on a scribble scratch piece of paper.
It doesn't matter if drift or anyone else thinks that is unrealistic or whatever. It is my money and I'll happily spend it at your store--but I don't like what I see as a game to judge my committment.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand why you are asking for the deposit, I am just amazed that it actually works.
If you get "Oh, I'm not going to buy a car for 6 months", and it's a Saturday, you can cut your losses at that point.
IF BOTH PARTIES AGREE ON PRICE AND PAYMENTS.
signX_________________________
depositX_________________________
You guys are all over the place with this after 30 some posts ...
Here's the reason: most folks that go shopping for vehicles are shopping for more than one vehicle and different brands .. most get confused (or don't tell the truth) on the options, most will pull themselves "off" the orginal "target" vehicle and move themselves into the Sport pack with the 18" wheels, the Nav system and the slider, most don't compare apples to apples -or- they have a false perceived value and/or most important, they don't have the decision maker with them ~ "Mrs. Buyer" ..
About a week ago, I had a customer pounding away on one of my sales guys for us to "meet" or beat the price of a new Kia Amanti vs a 03 pre-owned 5k silver Avalon XLS .. obviously we weren't comparing apples to apples, or in this case, Caviar to turnips .l.o.l. my car was priced at $28,9 and their new car thing was priced at a MSRP of $28,200 ..
I was "told" they can buy this new car thing for $26 even, plus the TTL .. I asked them, "would you buy and drive my vehicle away today, IF, I "was" to sell this Avalon for $26 even.? .. "No" I was told, they want me to beat the price by $500 (I owned it for $25,750) .. So I said, I'm going outside to smoke a cigarette, give me your Visa card and I will think about it for the next 7 minutes, we will either have a deal, or we won't .. his response was "well, I will think about it, I like the Kia a little better" -- in the meantime, I sold the Kia store to my ex-partner in 98 and we talk all the time and I knew he had to pay $28,200 for the vehicle, who's smoking who here ..! .l.o.l....
The point being, most of the folks that roll around here are pretty smart, they really do "good" homework, they read the stuff here, instead of just seeing the printed letters .. that's why it might be a little hard for most folks here to "understand", because you are a Small minority, that guy who lives up the street from you, the guy 2 offices down the hall, the cuties on the third floor or the guy you play cards with doesn't take the time to do proper homework, they will Shop til' they drop - and heaven forbid, let's not forget the guy who is shopping payments "only" and unfortunately, they are the large Majority, they just don't tell their neighbors .........
Terry.
for most of you on here with issues about signing an offer, you are the exceptions rather than the rule when it comes to car buyers. MOST have no sense of what it means to keep to your word. the unfortunate part of it is that as salespeople, we have to play the odds, since we cannot read minds.
if i lose 1 deal this way, but save time with 5 others by doing this, i can use that time to sell more cars. we must be VERY pragmatic about this, or we find ourselves taking up a 10 hour day with 2 non-buyers.
i hope this makes more sense.
also, about the "chicken scratch paper", i agree that the salesman should take his/her time and draw up a fresh worksheet for an offer. i do. what do the SM's think about this?
If you're talking to a live human being about a vehicle, where the human is getting ready to discuss the possibility of a many-thousand dollar purchase, use a real write-up sheet (whatever your store uses).
I've seen and heard of salespeople writing numbers on a business card - what's that for? So they can have a convenient wallet size version to use when they shop the next 14 dealers?
landru2: I would not give a deposit in order to have my offer taken to the higher-up for approval. Demanding that would be a sure way to lose this serious shopper. But maybe it's what works for your store. I believe the horror stories of dealing with the car-buying public, I really do.
Same sorta thing with the Explorer, except I couldn't make up my mind and talked myself right out of the rebates. However, when it was all said and done, we got to good ole Cal, the Explorer was sitting outside all detailed ready to go. Salesman asked me if I wanted to test drive, I said nope, signed the papers, took the new truck, went and ate dinner, came back and got the winter wheels/tires from my 97 and whatever else out of it and was gone.
Now the only time I have to go near a car lot is to pick up hubby after he drops the said Dodge off for warranty work. Or to go visit a friend of mine at the GMC dealer and charm him into buying lunch....hehehe.
Yup, me likes it this way.
To those of you that say you wouldn't give a deposit with an offer, I can only say that I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I'm just telling you what results in sales and what does not.
It's strictly a business decision. It results in more sales. And sales is the only reason that the store exists. These objections to the idea of deposits are, IMHO, more an internet chat board thing than what really happens.
Too bad, but that's reality.
The asking for a sig is a psychological game played by the salesman to solidify commitment in your mind. See it for what it is, and don't trip over it. If I'm making a good offer, and the sales person wants me to sign it before he takes it to his boss, Who cares? If you know it's a mind game he's trying to play with you, doesn't it loose it's hold on you if you see it for what it is? Every car I've purchased in the last 10 years from a dealer has involved initialling offers during negotiation. Didn't bother me one bit, because I was serious, and would buy at the price I offered.
Fine, new-car offer deposits result in more sales for your store.
But, no, objections to deposits are not just an internet chat board thing.
Fortunately, deposits are NOT the norm in my part of the world. So it is not an issue 'round here.
Hopefully it never will be.
Just like you get jerked around by shoppers, I expect that some dealership personnel would jerk shoppers around when asked to return the deposit if the offer was not accepted - the modern-day equivalent of throwing the keys to the prospective trade-in onto the roof.
Hopefully it never will be."
and you know this how? are you present at all negotiations in your "part of the world"?
i see this type of statement being made quite often. i understand that you...along with bobst...havent had to deal with these things in your particular car deals, but please be realistic and know that most other deals are done differently than yours. people negotiate the same, and have the same goals...so the sales approach will be the same. but i will emphasize this again...the buyers on here ARE NOT representative of the general buying public.
but please be realistic and know that most other deals are done differently than yours.
the most you can say is that SOME deals are done differently.
In my experience (albeit in Canada) I have only ever been asked to sign a handwritten purchase agreement once. As far as deposits with offers goes again only once (different dealership) and it was returned promptly once our negotiations reached an unsuccessful conclusion. They did call me 90 minutes later to say they would do the deal but I had already bought across the road. Actually as it turns out I'm glad things worked out that way because it started my association with Toyota vehicles.
That is a strange request.
I mean, if they are going to do the deal they expect more than a deposit. They expect payment in full.
Our salesman said they would do the deal if we would pay for the car that day. I said, "Sure, that's why we came here."
You mentioned disputing credit charges. How can you dispute a dredit charge when your new Jazzmobile is sitting in your driveway?
If the salesman said they would only consider my offer if I stood on one foot, do you think I would do it? Of course not. I am certainly not afraid to stand on one foot, but if I don't feel like standing on one foot, I'm not going to do it.
having said that, i will still take your offer...but i wont promise a yes, no, or counter from my manager.
What I'm "afraid" of is I am being asked to "commit" without any assurance from the salesperson that they are committed. That is, I have to "commit" simply to get the SM to LOOK at the offer, much less agree to it. I give you a number, the SM agrees, I sign a contract, done.
"The asking for a sig is a psychological game played by the salesman to solidify commitment in your mind. See it for what it is, and don't trip over it."
Exactly. If I wanted psychological games, I'd do Rorshach tests for an hour with a therapist. Instead, I'd prefer to buy a car, since I'm at a car dealership. I certainly understand that any kind of sales requires some degree of psychology to encourage the buyer to buy. I have to do the same in my job. But, in my job, if you're signing, both of us are committed.
"in different geological locations."
Bowke, I can't let that pass without a :-)
"having said that, i will still take your offer...but i wont promise a yes, no, or counter from my manager."
Perfect! I can assure you, if he says yes, I will sign a binding contract. If he says no, I will increase my offer, since I probably misjudged the going rate on the vehicle. If he counters and it appears reasonably acceptable, I will likely agree. The point is, it's likely the only way I won't drive away with a vehicle, is if we are dramatically far apart. If I'm offering, I'm serious. I realize not everyone is this way and you put up with all kinds of bull that makes your job harder. I empathize and my objection isn't because I think it's sleazy or anything else. It's just personal--I sign what I want.
the dealer personnel are ALWAYS committed to selling a car. the reason for a commitment is to initiate proper negotiations, in a good faith manner. if we negotiate, and you are not ready to pull the trigger, then you havent negotiated in good faith.
also, as the buyer, its your job to initiate negotiations. this goes in ANY sale...not just cars. the commitment is simply to provide the "line" that you are crossing.
lastly, why would a SM commit to YOUR initial offer. thats the point of making an offer. if his name were on it BEFORE your offer, then it would be like signing a blank check.
Is "How much" a valid way to start this process with you?
If you run, there's a 99% chance they'll never see you again - if you make an offer, instead of just fishing for a number, the whole scenario is better.
Why play the game of "what if", when you can say "I'll give you xx dollars and my trade"? You may still have to negotiate a little, but you won't have to deal with a two-hour stare-down...
I hate to ask or imply, but it requires HONESTY on the part of the consumer.
In 1993 I asked a salesman what it would cost for a Honda, and he just pointed to the sticker.
In 1993 we asked a salesman how much it would cost for a Mazda 626. He went back and forth to the sales manager, but never gave me a price. It was weird.
After that experience I stopped asking for a price. You never know what they will say.
1) they offer a rediculous amount (invoice-holdback on an MDX or some such deal) that is a non starter, and leads more likely to frustration than a deal
2) they offer more than the going rate, thereby leaving the proverbial money on the table.
In option 1, the dealer ends up having to make the first "real" offer anyway, unless they just show the buyer the door or the buyer decides to bid against himself. In option 2, the dealer grabs the deal, after an appropriate amount of soul searching to make sure the buyer knows he's practically robbing them blind.
I think my point is, everyone "knows" that MSRP isn't a real number, and expect dealers to offer a discount right off the top.
Personally, every time I've asked "what can you do on one of these", the sales person came back with a number. Not always a good one, but a number. This at least sets the initial price range (my "hope for" number, aka the Bobst figure, and what they offered being the high end).
The real point is I need to get back to work I think.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.