So, Tvnam, what is it that you want to arrive at? A fair price, or the lowest price available within some geographic region? From your posts of this morning, it seemed that you want the lowest price, which is not the same thing as a fair price. If it's a fair price that you want, then using Edmunds TMV won't take you far wrong. If you want the lowest price within a given area, then you're going to have to do a lot more homework.
If what you want is the lowest price within an area, for starters, you’re going to have to define what that area is, how you’re going to get the vehicle from wherever it is to you, and how much it will cost to do that. Next, you’re going to have to compare the e-mail quotes on an apples-to-apples basis. You will need to know whether the dealers have the vehicles that they are quoting on, whether they are quoting on vehicles with exactly the same equipment, and whether or not they are quoting you out-the-door prices. If they are quoting you out-the-door prices, you will need to know whether they are using the same definition of “out-the-door”, including what state they are assuming the titling will take place in, if you are serious about shopping across states. If they are not quoting out-the-door prices, you will need to know what, exactly, fees each proposes to add to their quote.
Unlike some here, I’m bringing no judgment of whether going after the lowest price is the right thing to do. Only you can decide that for you. There is no one resource that you can go to find out what the lowest price is. It will take effort and attention to detail, on your part, to get to that. And you’ll have to start by getting over the attitude that you are at the mercy of the dealers. That won’t get you there, bud!
>>>Carmax sell at a fixed price. I would feel much better this way. <<<
The last three times that I have purchased a vehicle, I have walked down to my local Carmax dealer looking for similar cars. And in all three cases, their prices for very similar cars were $1,500 MORE than I paid.
As far as I am concerned, dealers can post WHATEVER price they want on the car. I will not pay any more for a car than I think that it is worth. On more occasions than I care to remember, I have paid $6500-7000 for a car with a $9999 sticker. But if YOU want to pay that $9999, go right ahead. I am sure that the dealer won't quarrel with you.
I don't doubt that there are some dealers, who, particularly at busy times, give priority to customers who bought there, but I can say that I haven't found this to be as much of a problem as some here suggest. People move all the time, more frequently than ever before. Unless you turn over your cars a lot more frequently than the average, it's likely that you're not going to have the option of taking it to the buying dealer for service throughout its lifetime anyway.
Lots of cars get serviced at dealerships other than where they were bought. A Lexus is a reliable make, so warranty work should be minimal. In my experience, maintenance work that the customer is paying for gets the same priority regardless of whether the vehicle was bought at the servicing dealership. Unless I were buying a trouble-prone model, I don't see this as a big factor in the decision.
that's easy enough to figure out. I'm talking about people who take up a local dealer's time, then buy elsewhere to save $100, then demand front of the line treatment at their local place - forget it.
>>I don't doubt that there are some dealers, who, particularly at busy times, give priority to customers who bought there, but I can say that I haven't found this to be as much of a problem as some here suggest. <<
Made the mistake of leasing a couple of Volvos in '01 and '02 as part of my fleet. Leasing company contracts with a dealer 30 miles away for delivery. Driver takes it for a WARRANTY repair to the dealer ten miles away and is told to go pound sand. Made a couple of calls to my Corporate Fleet person who called the Ford HQ who called the dealer who called me to apologize saying that "that *NEVER* happens at his dealership". I told him that generally, I am NOT delusional.
Personally, I have had a half dozen times with different makes which indicates to me that it is not uncommon.
I just read your post #7462, and I disagree with everything you say.
However, you and I have one thing in common - we both live on the same planet.
If you want to learn how to deal with the real world and have an enjoyable experience buying a car, then stick around this DG. Some of us love car-buying and we have learned how to get a decent price. We could teach you something.
However, if you only want to whine and complain about life being so unjust, you will get more sympathy somewhere else.
so, basically, that dealer said "I don't want your hundreds, maybe thousands, of dollars of service business because you didn't let me make $200 on the sale of the car."
I'll never understand that attitude.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well, I would say that the response that I got went from a "get lost" to a "we'll fit you in at our next available appointment which is two months from now" (on tranny work).
Don't have that problem any more as teh "big guy" says "NO MORE VOLVOS!!"
bobst...really...april fools day was 2 weeks ago, man.
tvnam...dealers have tried the "one-price" way many times before. saturn is slowly going away from it, and carmax will eventually. the problem isnt the process. its really a good idea. the problem is a human one. one of 2 things will happen:
1) another dealer will "throw in" an oil change or mud flaps or undercoating just to close a deal, and then you've opened pandora's box.
2) a customer will INSIST that the above items be "thrown in", and will not buy until someone does it.
the problem for you is an internal one. how can you honestly say "i dont like it, so EVERYONE ELSE should change"?
with all the research you've done, im surprised you havent researched negotiating. arm yourself with knowledge of effective negotiating, and you will have alot more confidence in yourself when it comes to confrontation.
like bobst said: "If you want to learn how to deal with the real world and have an enjoyable experience buying a car, then stick around this DG. Some of us love car-buying and we have learned how to get a decent price. We could teach you something. However, if you only want to whine and complain about life being so unjust, you will get more sympathy somewhere else."
Let's see, contacting a bunch of California dealers long-distance, arranging to buy one, buying a plane ticket and flying out, dealing with the sudden $500-$1000 bump in the agreed upon price because the CA dealer knows you're not going to fly back empty-handed (oh, didn't know you wanted one with doors, well...), dealing with byzantine sales tax rules between CA and NC, having to arrange to ship the puppy back OR take a week off to drive it back yourself...
Not worth $1500. Just go back and buy the thing. $2000 off a RX330 sounds pretty good to me.
mirth is right on target....if some guy is going to fly across the country to buy an everyday car, (specialty cars like a ferrari, aston martin, etc are a different story) then they are going to take the bump at delivery just to save face.....imagine the heckling you would face if you went home empty handed...the "i told you so's" would be unbearable.
I go back to my original dealer for maintenance and service (except oil changes) on my 95 850. I usually wait two weeks to get in - customers who "turn" their cars more frequently get in ahead of me. I can get service any time at a dealer 2 miles away from my office, but they charge labor at 2x warranty rate and $85.
Had a lot more pull when we had a GTI and a 944 getting serviced there - basically I would go in with one car when picking up one of the others.
that had a Saturn store, the trade was always the problem. There were so many of a similarly-equipped model at each of the Saturn stores in the area, finding you car wasn't the problem.
They had lots of folks shop their trades between Saturn stores, so you can throw the one price idea out the window, where it belongs.
I ended up discussing the situation with the manager of the local Lexus dealer and got much better treatment going back. With the negotiation techniques learn from you all, I ended up having $4000 off. Thanks to all of you.
Thank you for reading this. I am trying to buy a new vehicle (serious buyer). I have a very good offer from the dealer I bought my last vehicle from. I have "shopped" that offer to just a few local dealers in hopes of obtaining a better price. I'm not out for a cut-throat deal; just want to indeed get the "best" price. Anyway, some dealers have come back and said that if I can produce the original offer on paper (a PO), they will beat it, and some have offered to do so by many hundreds of dollars!! Here is where I think this is a screwy proposition. While I certainly understand their need to want to verify the originally quoted price, do they REALLY think another dealer will take the time to write up a PO so I can run out of there and show it to another dealer? I mean, we all know pretty much what the costs are, where the wiggle room is and isn't, so it just seems to me that getting a PO is just a silly exercise. Seems to me they either can or can’t beat the price, with or without the PO. I think I'm being pretty honest and reasonable with the other dealers. I'm not telling them to beat the original offer by any kind of unreasonable amount or anything. I simply told them the price I got (it's their business, they know if the price is real!) and asked them if they could compete. I didn't even ask for x amount. I let them make the offer, and they all have (contingent upon some written proof, or course). So, my question to the sales people out there, isn't the written proof of the "original" deal a little silly? Thank you.
no. you may be an exception, but at least a third of my customers say something to the effect of "i can get it for $x".
most of the time, its horse pucky. and neither i, nor my management team will be lied to to get a certain price. there are only a couple possible outcomes in this scenario.
first, the rare outcome...everything is on the up-and-up. you go get the P.O. the problem there is that the second and third dealers have low-balled you. they just want to keep you from pulling the trigger. they dont actually have to beat your deal. once you come back, they have a captive audience. chances are, you will pay the same or even a little more.
second, your original dealer wont give you a P.O. we wont, and i know of no other dealer thats stupid enough to do so. in 5 years of selling cars, ive seen a total of 2 competitors documents...and they were only worksheets. not P.O's.
could everything happen the way you want it to? sure...theoretically. but according to theory, an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. common sense says otherwise.
my advice is the same as to all buyers:
if you are happy with the car, have a comfortable price/payment, and are comfortable with the people you are doing business with, there is no other reason to delay.
jhs70 - these dealers know full well that nobody is going to give you a PO to shop around. If they won't give you hundreds off as it stands then they're not going to give you hundreds off period. If they won't beat the price, just smile, thank them for their time, and tell them you'll go buy from the original dealer. If they are bluffing then at this point they'd give in. If not, then go buy from the original dealer with the peace of mind of knowing you got the "best" deal.
Personally, I think its no more silly than someone shopping around an offer they have from a dealer they have a relationship with and, by their own admission, is a "very good offer."
But, hey, that's just me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Some dealers put their "bottom line" price on their web site, which makes it pretty easy to shop prices. Just have dealer B look at dealer A's Web site. Of course, there aren't that many dealers that work this way (the big one in NH comes to mind).
The only way I have ever had a true PO in hand has been if I had to pick the car up at a later date, but the deal was all written up. Of course, then you have to deal with getting a deposit back and cancelling a deal, as opposed to just getting a "what if" price.
I have gotten plenty of firm prices in the past, but they were always written on some kind of work sheet.
What the heck, everyone should just adopt the Bobst method, and save lots of time. In this case, just go to dealer B and offer dealer A price - whatever you need to make you jump ship to dealer B, and see if he will do it. If not, buy from dealer A. Why should dealer B care if the price you are shopping is real? He should only be deciding if he can sell you a car for the price you want to pay. If not, take the shoe leather express OTD.
...that's not the bobst method. In the bobst method, you figure out ahead of time what you want to pay for the car and make the offer - you don't let them tell you their "best" price. While I don't agree with the rest of the bobst method, I agree with that much of it.
I'm not a car pro but I'm with bowke 100% on this. You are not giving the other dealers any incentive to beat your price( since in their minds you may be playing them). Another thing to consider is that if they give you a firm written offer that's lower what's to stop you from going back to the first dealer to see if they will beat that.
The bobst method ( as I recall)is you have a firm price on the vehicle with the options you want. You go to the dealers in your area and the first one to hit that OTD price wins ( but not a penny more:-). If no one will sell at the price you want( and think is fair to both parties) you regroup increase your offer and repeat until you have a dealership that will sell to you at that price.
Duncan-who now has a Masters in bobst and a PHD in hooey. :-)
"Thank you for reading this. I am trying to buy a new vehicle (serious buyer). I have a very good offer from the dealer I bought my last vehicle from. I have "shopped" that offer to just a few local dealers in hopes of obtaining a better price. I'm not out for a cut-throat deal; just want to indeed get the "best" price."
All I can say is I wish I had the time and the willingness to waste it that you do. You've admitted the offer given by a dealer that you've already done business with is "very good", yet you wanted even better than "very good". How can any dealer satisfy that demand? And what incentive is in it for them to do so, since when it comes time for your next new car, you may or may not buy from the dealer that gave you the "best price" on this vehicle you are shopping for now?
Personally, I think you might very well get this so-called best price, but at what cost? Think about that. Not, is "x" the best price, but rather is "y" from a dealer that knows me and I trust already, a fair price that I am willing to pay?
P.S., you do know that 3 months from now, when you get the "best price", someone buying the same exact vehicle is going to get a lower price, don't you?
from your original dealer, and compare it to Edmunds TMV, and go into the discussion for that particular vehicle and ask around. That should take all of 5 minutes.
Then go buy your car and spend your time and energy on something much more productive.
I'm looking for a Scion xA (I love Toyota and the look).
Dealership stated the price is "no haggle" but my sales rep said that the xA isn't selling well in the SE region and they are only keeping the Demos on the lot.
The MSRP is listed at 13045 (includes the destination charge). Closing cost 295, Tax 300 (capped in my state), and tags 40. This should put the total to about 13685.
Edmunds Invoice is 11855 + 485 (destination) = 12340.
--
For the dealers out there, would it be fair to offer 3% over invoice for this vehicle vs the 5.4% over invoice they are selling at MSRP?
And about options, how do dealers that post here feel about selling parts options at 10% over invoice vs what the list price is?
Options I'm interested in are Fog Lights and Remote Locks.
Fog Lights: Invoice 245, List 350 Remote Entry: Invoice 359, List 499
I want to give the dealership (and the sales rep) a fair sell, but I also want to get a fair deal myself.
Thanks
PS, if anyone has heard anything about Scion deals, please let me know.
Well, I should have guessed I would be skewered by the industry insiders for trying to conserve my precious bucks. You all would be surprised at how LITTLE time I've put into this effort – initially an hour or two, and 10 or 15 minutes here or there whenever I receive communication from the dealers. I’m not dumb, I’m not going to spend 100s of hours trying to save $200. And I won’t travel cross-country either no matter what the potential saving might be. But I see no harm in trying to maximize my value wherever and however I see fit. I expect the dealer to do that too. I've actually only visited one dealership to date! You guys seem to readily discount that it's possible that where I live, the market is extremely competitive. These sales people have my phone ringing and my email occupied. They are friendly, and I am cordial. They want to deal. I’m trying to be respectful here, but this is a business deal, not a familial one. I do not owe my original dealer blind “loyalty”. He sold me a car at a great price – it’s true – but we don’t go out to dinner or send Christmas cards. If he doesn’t give me the best deal, I move on. What’s wrong with that? I don’t even go to his dealership for servicing because it’s not worth fighting the traffic. And guess what I get great service from the local guys. Ford "gets it" from my perspective. It’s funny, I originally asked if it was “silly” to have to produce a PO (I really meant just any kind of written documentation) and I get nailed from every angle for wasting my time trying to hammer out a few extra bucks. I appreciate your insights.
first of all, if you were being "skewered", you would know it.
second, if you arent receiving christmas cards, then you arent dealing with a professional...at least you didnt last time.
third, noone said anything about "blind loyalty".
youve done your research, you know what people pay, you know the incentives. you seem to be an intelligent person. you also already knew it was a "very good" price. i think from experience (and some who share my POV are NOT in the industry), you are outsmarting yourself.
when your time was brought into question, it wasnt the time spent researching that was the issue. its the overall time.
look at it this way...you could have been done with it already, enjoying the new car, and getting rid of the issue for another few years.
Mr. Bowke, I am in absolutely no hurry to get into my new vehicle and rather enjoy the time it's taking to make a deal. There are some really nice folks out there, very much counter to the stereotypical sales people you hear so much about. But for some reason, you guys seem to want me to get the deal over with as quickly as possible .. it doesn't matter to me. I'm not ignoring my family or job with what I'm doing. I'll reach a point where I'm satisfied and then make the deal. And I'll be happy. Thanks for your insight ... now on to my taxes!
Does Duncan also get keys to the secret backroom where they high-five each other too? No industry insider would be complete without access to the secret backroom
"I don't think you were "skewered" by anyone. You asked a question and you didn't like the answers you were given.
Most people like to get a deal done and then move on. You seem to enjoy prolonging the process.
To each his own."
I asked what I thought was a fairly simple question about the need for a PO, and you all responded. I appreciated the responses to that, and I learned something, so how can you say I didn't like the answers? However, it was you guys who then began to question my motivations for not taking the first price I got, even if it was a good one. The bulk of the responses were about why I'm dragging this out, and then I was characterized as trying to save a couple of hundred bucks. Believe me, a tad more is on the table than a couple of hundred bucks. Anyway, I wouldn't characterize what I'm doing from a consumer's point of view as dragging it out. I now when I'll stop and I'm comfortable with it. I guess that's where we differ.
The real problem that I see is that there is a general lack of knowlege as to what a fair price is *in the current market*. Edmunds TMV is based on data that is basd on recent sales -- not current sales.
So, when I buy a car, I want to get a good price...in fact, I want the lowest price I can get (without dedicating my life to obtaining the lowest price). In the same manner that the salespeople want the highest price they can get. It is my money that I am turning over to you.
There would be no problem if all dealers and all customers where completely honest. However, some dealers are less than forthcoming (as are some consumers).
Case in point, a few years ago, I was shopping for a minivan. Hondas were very hot; MSPR +. Sienna's had been really hot a bit earlier. Toyotas were in stock, Hondas where not. We needed the car right away. Toyota salesman was telling me how hot these vans are...how we needed to move fast (which we were) and how they were bringing full MSRP + .... Edmunds said they were going for about 1K below MSRP. However, there was a 1K rebate on them...The ting was I counted over 100 Siennas on the lot. I asked the salesman if the vans are selling so fast, how come there was so many on the lot? I ended up with invoice - 800 ( factoring in the rebate). About 1 month later, that was the TMV for the van. Oh...the van runs nice.
The trick is to observe the dealers inventory. Walk the lot with the salesman. Observe. And do your homework.
You're getting at the root of my motivation. Supply is very high in my area on the vehicle I'm interested in. And I also have verified that regionally supply is quite high as well. I "play the game" because the dealers keep playing the game. When they stop, I stop. (I won't pursue that extra $50; some things in life just aren't worth it!). So when someone questions what's in it for the dealers to meet my price, all I can say is that right here in my area, they're finding a reason amongst themselves to do what they need to do to get my business. Not a difficult concept.
I'm another one of the non-insiders here. So I think maybe it should make you wonder why both sides of the fence criticized you a bit for your practices.
The key to the whole thing for me is that you already admitted you were offered a very good price. So why the continued shopping? If its a very good price, it can't be more than a couple hundred bucks. If its more than a couple hundred bucks, than you wouldn't think it was a very good price. If you had left that part out of it, I think the responses here would have been very different.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Comments
If what you want is the lowest price within an area, for starters, you’re going to have to define what that area is, how you’re going to get the vehicle from wherever it is to you, and how much it will cost to do that. Next, you’re going to have to compare the e-mail quotes on an apples-to-apples basis. You will need to know whether the dealers have the vehicles that they are quoting on, whether they are quoting on vehicles with exactly the same equipment, and whether or not they are quoting you out-the-door prices. If they are quoting you out-the-door prices, you will need to know whether they are using the same definition of “out-the-door”, including what state they are assuming the titling will take place in, if you are serious about shopping across states. If they are not quoting out-the-door prices, you will need to know what, exactly, fees each proposes to add to their quote.
Unlike some here, I’m bringing no judgment of whether going after the lowest price is the right thing to do. Only you can decide that for you. There is no one resource that you can go to find out what the lowest price is. It will take effort and attention to detail, on your part, to get to that. And you’ll have to start by getting over the attitude that you are at the mercy of the dealers. That won’t get you there, bud!
The last three times that I have purchased a vehicle, I have walked down to my local Carmax dealer looking for similar cars. And in all three cases, their prices for very similar cars were $1,500 MORE than I paid.
As far as I am concerned, dealers can post WHATEVER price they want on the car. I will not pay any more for a car than I think that it is worth. On more occasions than I care to remember, I have paid $6500-7000 for a car with a $9999 sticker. But if YOU want to pay that $9999, go right ahead. I am sure that the dealer won't quarrel with you.
Your kidding, right.? this is one of those Easter Egg stories ...
Happy Easter everyone ...
Terry.
It's a fact of life that people who buy locally get priority. It's just good business.
Lots of cars get serviced at dealerships other than where they were bought. A Lexus is a reliable make, so warranty work should be minimal. In my experience, maintenance work that the customer is paying for gets the same priority regardless of whether the vehicle was bought at the servicing dealership. Unless I were buying a trouble-prone model, I don't see this as a big factor in the decision.
forget it.
Made the mistake of leasing a couple of Volvos in '01 and '02 as part of my fleet. Leasing company contracts with a dealer 30 miles away for delivery. Driver takes it for a WARRANTY repair to the dealer ten miles away and is told to go pound sand. Made a couple of calls to my Corporate Fleet person who called the Ford HQ who called the dealer who called me to apologize saying that "that *NEVER* happens at his dealership". I told him that generally, I am NOT delusional.
Personally, I have had a half dozen times with different makes which indicates to me that it is not uncommon.
However, you and I have one thing in common - we both live on the same planet.
If you want to learn how to deal with the real world and have an enjoyable experience buying a car, then stick around this DG. Some of us love car-buying and we have learned how to get a decent price. We could teach you something.
However, if you only want to whine and complain about life being so unjust, you will get more sympathy somewhere else.
I'll never understand that attitude.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Don't have that problem any more as teh "big guy" says "NO MORE VOLVOS!!"
bobst...really...april fools day was 2 weeks ago, man.
tvnam...dealers have tried the "one-price" way many times before. saturn is slowly going away from it, and carmax will eventually. the problem isnt the process. its really a good idea. the problem is a human one. one of 2 things will happen:
1) another dealer will "throw in" an oil change or mud flaps or undercoating just to close a deal, and then you've opened pandora's box.
2) a customer will INSIST that the above items be "thrown in", and will not buy until someone does it.
the problem for you is an internal one. how can you honestly say "i dont like it, so EVERYONE ELSE should change"?
with all the research you've done, im surprised you havent researched negotiating. arm yourself with knowledge of effective negotiating, and you will have alot more confidence in yourself when it comes to confrontation.
like bobst said: "If you want to learn how to deal with the real world and have an enjoyable experience buying a car, then stick around this DG. Some of us love car-buying and we have learned how to get a decent price. We could teach you something.
However, if you only want to whine and complain about life being so unjust, you will get more sympathy somewhere else."
Not worth $1500. Just go back and buy the thing. $2000 off a RX330 sounds pretty good to me.
Had a lot more pull when we had a GTI and a 944 getting serviced there - basically I would go in with one car when picking up one of the others.
They had lots of folks shop their trades between Saturn stores, so you can throw the one price idea out the window, where it belongs.
enjoy your new car.
most of the time, its horse pucky. and neither i, nor my management team will be lied to to get a certain price. there are only a couple possible outcomes in this scenario.
first, the rare outcome...everything is on the up-and-up. you go get the P.O. the problem there is that the second and third dealers have low-balled you. they just want to keep you from pulling the trigger. they dont actually have to beat your deal. once you come back, they have a captive audience. chances are, you will pay the same or even a little more.
second, your original dealer wont give you a P.O. we wont, and i know of no other dealer thats stupid enough to do so. in 5 years of selling cars, ive seen a total of 2 competitors documents...and they were only worksheets. not P.O's.
could everything happen the way you want it to? sure...theoretically. but according to theory, an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. common sense says otherwise.
my advice is the same as to all buyers:
if you are happy with the car, have a comfortable price/payment, and are comfortable with the people you are doing business with, there is no other reason to delay.
go get your new car, dude.
jhs70 - these dealers know full well that nobody is going to give you a PO to shop around. If they won't give you hundreds off as it stands then they're not going to give you hundreds off period. If they won't beat the price, just smile, thank them for their time, and tell them you'll go buy from the original dealer. If they are bluffing then at this point they'd give in. If not, then go buy from the original dealer with the peace of mind of knowing you got the "best" deal.
But, hey, that's just me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The only way I have ever had a true PO in hand has been if I had to pick the car up at a later date, but the deal was all written up. Of course, then you have to deal with getting a deposit back and cancelling a deal, as opposed to just getting a "what if" price.
I have gotten plenty of firm prices in the past, but they were always written on some kind of work sheet.
What the heck, everyone should just adopt the Bobst method, and save lots of time. In this case, just go to dealer B and offer dealer A price - whatever you need to make you jump ship to dealer B, and see if he will do it. If not, buy from dealer A. Why should dealer B care if the price you are shopping is real? He should only be deciding if he can sell you a car for the price you want to pay. If not, take the shoe leather express OTD.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The bobst method ( as I recall)is you have a firm price on the vehicle with the options you want. You go to the dealers in your area and the first one to hit that OTD price wins ( but not a penny more:-). If no one will sell at the price you want( and think is fair to both parties) you regroup increase your offer and repeat until you have a dealership that will sell to you at that price.
Duncan-who now has a Masters in bobst and a PHD in hooey. :-)
All I can say is I wish I had the time and the willingness to waste it that you do. You've admitted the offer given by a dealer that you've already done business with is "very good", yet you wanted even better than "very good". How can any dealer satisfy that demand? And what incentive is in it for them to do so, since when it comes time for your next new car, you may or may not buy from the dealer that gave you the "best price" on this vehicle you are shopping for now?
Personally, I think you might very well get this so-called best price, but at what cost? Think about that. Not, is "x" the best price, but rather is "y" from a dealer that knows me and I trust already, a fair price that I am willing to pay?
P.S., you do know that 3 months from now, when you get the "best price", someone buying the same exact vehicle is going to get a lower price, don't you?
Then go buy your car and spend your time and energy on something much more productive.
It's amazing what some people will put themselves through in their frantic zeal to get the "best price"!
Life is short...why beat yourself to death over a couple of hundred dollars?
Regards... Vikd
Dealership stated the price is "no haggle" but my sales rep said that the xA isn't selling well in the SE region and they are only keeping the Demos on the lot.
The MSRP is listed at 13045 (includes the destination charge). Closing cost 295, Tax 300 (capped in my state), and tags 40. This should put the total to about 13685.
Edmunds Invoice is 11855 + 485 (destination) = 12340.
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For the dealers out there, would it be fair to offer 3% over invoice for this vehicle vs the 5.4% over invoice they are selling at MSRP?
And about options, how do dealers that post here feel about selling parts options at 10% over invoice vs what the list price is?
Options I'm interested in are Fog Lights and Remote Locks.
Fog Lights: Invoice 245, List 350
Remote Entry: Invoice 359, List 499
I want to give the dealership (and the sales rep) a fair sell, but I also want to get a fair deal myself.
Thanks
PS, if anyone has heard anything about Scion deals, please let me know.
second, if you arent receiving christmas cards, then you arent dealing with a professional...at least you didnt last time.
third, noone said anything about "blind loyalty".
youve done your research, you know what people pay, you know the incentives. you seem to be an intelligent person. you also already knew it was a "very good" price. i think from experience (and some who share my POV are NOT in the industry), you are outsmarting yourself.
when your time was brought into question, it wasnt the time spent researching that was the issue. its the overall time.
look at it this way...you could have been done with it already, enjoying the new car, and getting rid of the issue for another few years.
...all over a hundred bucks or two.
Thanks for your insight ... now on to my taxes!
Most people like to get a deal done and then move on. You seem to enjoy prolonging the process.
To each his own.
And I'm not much of an insider....
-Mathias
Duncan
We have you now!
Most people like to get a deal done and then move on. You seem to enjoy prolonging the process.
To each his own."
I asked what I thought was a fairly simple question about the need for a PO, and you all responded. I appreciated the responses to that, and I learned something, so how can you say I didn't like the answers? However, it was you guys who then began to question my motivations for not taking the first price I got, even if it was a good one. The bulk of the responses were about why I'm dragging this out, and then I was characterized as trying to save a couple of hundred bucks. Believe me, a tad more is on the table than a couple of hundred bucks. Anyway, I wouldn't characterize what I'm doing from a consumer's point of view as dragging it out. I now when I'll stop and I'm comfortable with it. I guess that's where we differ.
So, when I buy a car, I want to get a good price...in fact, I want the lowest price I can get (without dedicating my life to obtaining the lowest price). In the same manner that the salespeople want the highest price they can get. It is my money that I am turning over to you.
There would be no problem if all dealers and all customers where completely honest. However, some dealers are less than forthcoming (as are some consumers).
Case in point, a few years ago, I was shopping for a minivan. Hondas were very hot; MSPR +. Sienna's had been really hot a bit earlier. Toyotas were in stock, Hondas where not. We needed the car right away. Toyota salesman was telling me how hot these vans are...how we needed to move fast (which we were) and how they were bringing full MSRP + .... Edmunds said they were going for about 1K below MSRP. However, there was a 1K rebate on them...The ting was I counted over 100 Siennas on the lot. I asked the salesman if the vans are selling so fast, how come there was so many on the lot? I ended up with invoice - 800 ( factoring in the rebate). About 1 month later, that was the TMV for the van. Oh...the van runs nice.
The trick is to observe the dealers inventory. Walk the lot with the salesman. Observe. And do your homework.
The key to the whole thing for me is that you already admitted you were offered a very good price. So why the continued shopping? If its a very good price, it can't be more than a couple hundred bucks. If its more than a couple hundred bucks, than you wouldn't think it was a very good price. If you had left that part out of it, I think the responses here would have been very different.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S