Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Maybe the dealer is being honest. If they aren't, how would you ever prove it?
There is no reason to get upset about this. One time a dealer and I agreed on an exact price, but when I went to pay for the car they would not honor the deal. Rather then arguing about it, I just left and bought a car somewhere else.
Instead of fighting with the dealer, spend your time doing something worthwhile - like practicing your short game.
Bob
I've done that when a customer would order a vehicle - knowing 8-10 weeks would go by, I would agree to a number on the trade that I knew would be good in two months. I also signed an agreement with the customer that if they wreck the car, flood it, etc, I could back out; and if the ordered unit isn't what they want, they can back out.
Your deal is different - they agreed on a number for your trade with a 1-2 week delivery period. It's not your fault that 1-2 weeks turned into 6-8 weeks. I say either they stick to the original deal or you find another dealer. They can't expect you to take less for your trade simply because they can't produce a car when they said they could.
Usually if I do a factory order for someone I can guarantee the trade-in value for a window of about 2 months, providing it shows up in the expected condition with the expected miles. Usually. There are exceptions, however. For instance if the trade is a Mustang convertible, the trade value will be much different in August than it is in October. Sometimes what happens is that the person with the Mustang will get some trade-in numbers in August and expect them to be the same for trading in October.
I'm concerned that the dealer is saying that market conditions "may" change. It doesn't sound like they have told you what they think the trade will be worth in November. Unless your trade is somewhat unusual (like the Mustang above) they should be able to reasonably predict its value 6 weeks from now.
Obviously they thought they could scrounge one from another dealership, but failed. I'd let them know that there is no deal until they find a vehicle, and then be looking around elsewhere at the same time. If they find one, or order one, you should have approval rights on it before it's committed.
As far as your trade goes, I think the dealership will have the final say. You said the value of your Tahoe should not lose value once winter hits. Maybe, maybe not. That is speculation on your part.
What could happen to your Tahoe between now and the new vehicle's arrival? Well, let's see........ it could be wrecked, stolen, driven cross-country adding thousands of miles, keyed, damaged by a hailstorm, broken into, or many other things. Expecting the dealer to offer the same valuation after damage has occured in unreasonable, IMO.
Hey, what if Tahoe's are involved in some fiasco like Explorers and Firestone tires? Another value killer.
Do whatever you want to regarding the new vehicle. Just don't expect time to stand still.
However, an honest and reputable dealer, with customer service and satisfaction in mind, would honor their quote and do the deal at the agreed upon price.
Bring your written quote with you to other dealers. Maybe you'll find one.
As for the value of your truck, barring extereme circumstances, your truck will not depreciate to any noticable extent between now and then.
you could test them "take my car right now, I don't need it, re-write the deal, all of it." you'll know right then and there whether they put you out on a hummer....
of course, having that piece of paper makes it easier or harder to shop, depending how you look at it, so you have that....
is there another dealer in town, have you been shopping around all the local dealers, guess what? most of them are on good terms with each other for dealer trades and swaps, but if there's one car....
car dealer's (of course there's none here) isn't there a piece of paper that needs to be signed "customer agrees to reappraise the car" or something like that....
dellwell, do you have a write-up on a piece of paper? Did you get a copy of it? did you go through the F&I dept?
I think this may have been a skinny deal in the first place and the dealer *may* have set the value on your trade in too high.
They may now be hoping you'll simply cancel the deal.
But...who knows?
And the market on used cars can change. Audi Unintended Acceleration, Ford Explorers, etc...
Bill
You have a couple of options. I'd suggest is that you sympathize with the dealer's (alleged) concern about your your trade-in devaluating and offer him a solution that's hard for him to wiggle an excuse out of. Here it is:
1. Offer that he accept your trade-in, *TODAY*.
2. But he has to provide you a free loaner car to span you over until your new vehicle arrives.
If he balks, you know why. Personally, I'd tell him you want your deposit back, plus 100% in damages because he is the one defaulting on the contract (I hope you put down a big deposit). IMO, a decent lawyer should be able to pretty easily show that the penalty for defaulting on the contract should be symmetrical...what you put up at risk in your deposit is also what the dealer should now have on the line.
-hh
If I was the customer, I'd start running my used-car ad now.
p.s. Bill: "VERY much not unheard of" ?
That can't not be wrong.
yes, landru2, the movie.
does the whole ten step process have to be started over?
No sale, No deal is the same as the next, you approach each one as it is needed to be approached. If a customer walks into the showroom should I ask him if he put his hand on the car he wanted yet? How ridiculous would I sound?
OTOH, if you walk in a Ferrari dealership and slap your hand down on a 550 Maranello, you'll probably be told "that's your car!", or "please don't touch the cars" LOL
I think then you have to do the hokey-pokey and shake it all about.
Sure! People want a circus atmosphere when they're making the second biggest purchase of their life?!
Man, I've been doing it ALL wrong! LOL
It seems like the disagreement about the many uses of deposits is cleared up, but I'm personally surprised at myself, because I can sympathize totally with Landru2's argument that a deposit can help the buyer by communicating commitment and immediacy to the sales manager. If you're a salesman, and providing the customer a quote is the prelude to his departure (in order to shop your price), then you have a delicate problem. Certainly dealers are trying--let's just say a variety of methods to solve this problem.
When I was buying a new car in the SF bay area in California, I had occasion to talk to nine salespeople: 2 at Allison, 1 in San Jose, 3 (salesperson, finance lady, sales manager) in Fremont, 1 in San Mateo, 1 in Berkeley, and 1 broker in Palo Alto. This list included Dave Parker at Allison, Lenny Witana (who now also works at Allison), and Navi Jax at Berkeley. Not one of the salespeople had the bedside manner and attitude that I prefer and that Landru2 and Zues project, but the broker and the three I named were close. The rest were either hapless or just plain frightening. Oh. I also talked to two other salespeople over the phone: one, a pathological liar; the other, literally unintelligible.
The three salesmen I named I spent the least time with; either the salesman or I made an offer, the offer was refused, and (in some cases after a short chat or in Lenny's case a quick tour of the lot) the conversation was over. But with these three it was pleasant, easy, and for the most part, weirdness-free.
It's not my point that salespeople are bad; but this is getting a bit long so I'll continue in my next post.
Getting the deposit back was the usual, where they throw out hurdles and you have to jump over them ("I don't have the authority"/ "We do lots of work on these"/ "I'd have to check with the salesperson first"). It took 30 minutes. Three things I want to say about this: I had a friend along, as a witness/helper/recorder-of-facts; and two, I never accused them of wrongdoing, nor did I put them in the position such that to give the deposit back would be an admission in any way that they did something wrong. I just said that I strongly felt that we should agree on a specific car and price first, before a deposit is made. Lastly, the deposit was by credit card, and technically I didn't have to go back at all; I just wanted to be aboveboard, rather than contest the payment.
Oh well, that was just one dealer; what will the next one be like? (next post)
I dictate a reasonable price on a special order, pay by cash. Deposit OK? Sure. Contract is written up and I'm TO'd to some lady.
I look at the numbers in the contract, all OK except for a $45 doc fee. I look at the rest of the contract. Manual 5-speed has been changed to Automatic. Interior color has changed. "Deposit" has changed to down payment on a loan. I remind them of the deal. Sales manager comes in; this guy is really good, really nasty ("well if you can't make a decision..."). He fixes the stuff, TOs me back to woman. I say, oh, BTW, you can't raise the price $45, we already agreed on a price. "It's a fee we charge everybody". I don't care, it's all just money and we agreed on a price. She walks out again without a word, sales manager comes in. "You have to leave, you've made too many adjustments." I pick up all my things, and leave without a word. I don't see the salesman around as I walk out.
A few weeks later, I get referred to a broker by a colleague. I give the broker a call, he calls back claiming he has located the car I want, and offers a price. I accept, and when the car arrives (from Oregon), his wife offers keys to let me drive it, I spend an hour driving & then inspecting the car, and then the broker is free, and I go in and sign the paperwork. No deposit was involved; the broker was willing to trust me, since I was referred to him.
I later checked the paperwork that came with the car. The car had been sitting on a lot in Oregon; the broker bought the car through a dealer in LA. Three middlemen involved in this transaction!
One fact of note is that the price I accepted was $1300 higher than the *very* *first* price I had been quoted, by Dave Parker at Allison. And yet I never once considered going back to him, partly because he had been a bit testy over the phone (I only spoke to him for 3 minutes), but mostly because by this time I didn't trust anyone in the car business anymore. Whatever opinions I may have had ("reasonable people who will nevertheless try to get as much money as possible"), were replaced by, let's just say, an extremely negative viewpoint. I really believed this Fremont sales manager had every intention of taking my downpayment and never selling me a car at all. These Fremont people behaved in every way like shameless, brazen criminals.
So before hearing Landru2's argument, I didn't have a very positive outlook concerning deposits.
Seriously - if you only had followed the 10 steps of the salesprocess....
Boloney!!! the "my manager needs to see a little skin in the game from you before he quotes a price...." That works with uneducated people. You try that downtown and you'll be laughed out onto the street.
It's not just the money. It's having to deal with a bunch of sleazy bastiges when buying a car.
My personal experiences have led me to believe that for every honest,low-key, intelligent, well-mannered salesperson, there are at least two low-life, slicked back hair, gaudy dressing, fast talking, full of crap sleazebags.
Even in dealerships where the initial salesperson is all of the good things, chances are you'll be TO'd to a sales manager with all the latter qualities.
The automakers go to great lengths to make and market these cars using normal business standards used by most other Western businesses. The automotive press covers these cars in a way befitting this Western style of doing business. Yet, when it comes to purchasing these vehicles, quite often it's like buying a rug at a Moroccan Bazaar.
Why can't the purchase process be commensurate with the rest of the automotive industry?
sadly, 'most' people will never know about the steps of the sale because the 15 people that monitor smart shopper a fairly split down the middle, car guys and gals on one side and surfers on the other.
How many unique visitors does Edmunds have to smart shopper?
CWJ
Where do you shop?
CWJ
(I missed the last one - I'd already left work.)
Umm, A) Most all shoppers want them.
98 GS300? No Roof? $2,000 deduct in the real-world.
Bill
Sure you wanna order one that way?
I admit it sure was hard in my case to get a car w/o a sunroof, but (assuming a reputable dealer who cares about customer satisfaction) all it really requires is a special order.
If dealers do have a beef with nonsunroof cars, I guess it's possible to give some feedback to the manufacturer. Acura makes them standard on some of its models; Lexus restricts the configurations you can get by region. But I don't really think it's a problem.