Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

mackabee · October 2001

of the salesperson to say that to you. I would have said something to the effect of; "I'm sorry we didn't come to an agreeable price on your car. I do hope that you will have your car serviced here, and if you should have any question about your vehicle please don't hesitate to give me a call." However, since you dealt with a green pea he didn't know how to respond and lost potential referrals from you. I have lost deals over a couple of hundred dollars BUT the customers were impressed by the way I dealt with them that they have referred business to me. I haven't sold them all but at least I got a shot a them for which I'm grateful.
: )

Mackabee

zueslewis · October 2001

I know I picked up a car through Army and Air Force Exchange Service (AAFES) while on active duty - that's the only program I know other than going through the dealer.

As far as warranty repairs go, hold the phone! Sure your mechanic can perform repairs, but he will not be paid by the manufacturer. You could pay him first, then submit for reimbursement, but good luck. Cases like that are on an emergency only basis - like if your alternator shelled and you were 200 miles from the nearest dealer - the guys at the Mobil station could install a new one, you pay them, then 4 months later, you'd get your money back after you submit a letter and make threatening phone calls.

The manufacturer pays only dealers for a reason - they can control the training and certification of the technicians, thereby not opening themselves up for liability for someone else's mistakes.

Your plan, at least from a warranty perspective, won't work, unfortunately.

dtabaka · October 2001

I used several research sites to get my base invoice plus options.

However, when I got to the dealer and went over these and what I was willing to pay above invoice, they added advertising costs (around $424 for a Toyota 4runner).

I haven't made any deals, but is this legitimate? In the FAQ, it says never pay above 1% of MSRP for advertising. Any advice? Thanks, Dave.

im_brentwood · October 2001

Check in the topic you started...

I answered.

Bill

cupholder1 · October 2001

And dealers often like to act as if the customer's math is off, when it isn't. With all of the lease/loan calculators out there, it is pretty easy to find out what the payment should be, right down to the penny.

mrdirt · October 2001

My wife and I just bought a new white Windstar SE. I after getting it delivered and taking it home, I noticed a card still affixed to the corner of the windshield. On it is a preprinted stock number, and beneath it handwritten '2001 Windstar, white, and then the last 6 digits of VIN. What struck me as odd was the color and VIN had been whited out and then written over. I can make out 'green' from under the whiteout for color, but can't make out any of what may have been written under the VIN. I didn't give this much thought, until I looked at the set of keys the dealer had handed to my wife. There were some tags attached to the keys, again with the same matching preprinted stock number and hand written 2001 Windstar, green, and a partial vin, which does not match the vin on my vehicle. This made me inspect the car in detail. I'm no mechanic or car expert; so I don't know the difference between factory paint or an after market job....but it does look like a good paint job. But when I looked under the car, the last hinge that holds the tailpipe is covered with sprayed green paint. I'm wondering what could have happened here and just what kind've 'new' condition this car is. Anyone have any experience with cars being repainted and sold as new by the dealer? And even if the car had been repainted, how could the VIN number have also been altered?

millerro3 · October 2001

whoever checked the car in when it was delivered to the dealership mixed up the keys/stock numbers.

[Deleted User] · October 2001

But what about the green paint????? I'd say this needs further investigation. To the bat cave!

armtdm · October 2001

Try a Car FAX search of the VIN number and do some more searching. Something ain't kosher here. What did the dealer say?

tincup47 · October 2001

It's really easy to tell the original color on a Ford. On the drivers side door or door post, there is a VIN label. It will have the paint code on it near the LH Bottom. The code will be right above where it says Exterior Paint Color and will be 2 digits. Take that code and call any dealer or body shop and ask what color it is. I agree they probably just mixed up the tags.

landru2 · October 2001

white is WT
Deep emerald green is PA

mrdirt · November 2001

I want to thank all those who responded to my post. Tincup and Landru2, the code on the VIN label is WT. The closer I look at the car, and the more I think about this, I find it hard to believe that this is not factory white on the car. I'm going back to the dealer on Saturday. The car came with a factory VCP which no one knew how to extract from its locked into the console state when the car was delivered. Looks like there's some type of screw that needs to be removed at the base of the console, but I'll leave that to the experts.
At that time I'll ask about the paint.......

When I began my car search several months ago, I was absolutely clueless about purchasing a car and where to begin with the negotiations. Thanks to the NET and this board in particular, I feel like I made an informed purchase and got a good deal (under invoice + the extra 3500 rebate off). My thanks to you guys for contributing here, I appreciate it.

sonjaab · November 2001

I have seen some primer fillers that are
a light green...Could your van of had some
body work ?

cupholder1 · November 2001

secrets

zueslewis · November 2001

I was just involved in a suit where an old guy bought a sharp 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited from a dealer in NE PA. After the fact, he ran the VIN, contacted Michigan DMV and obtained (public record) info on the previous owner. He contacted the owner and asked if there were any maintenance records or problems with the vehicle as he'd just bought it - he complemented her on how well she took care of it.

She was in shock, and told him there was no way he was talking about her Jeep - her Jeep had run out of fuel on a set of RR tracks, and when the crossbars came down, she ran and abandoned it. It was hit by a train.

The investigation revealed that the dealer had an inside guy at the insurance adjuster service who made sure the title was branded "salvage" or "total", paid a guy $500 to steal a white 98 JGC Limited in the Bronx, NY, and switched VIN plates. The adjuster got $2500, the dealer sold the rig for $18,995, making $16,000, the rig was financed and an extended warranty was sold. The consumer, the bank and the warranty company got hit.

Interesting job I've got, since I got to testify (again) against the dealer that fired me for having ethics.

zueslewis · November 2001

The adjuster made sure the title WAS NOT branded, not "was branded" as in my last post. Read over it too late to edit.

[Deleted User] · November 2001

That Old guy that bought the jeep sounds like an "inconsiderate buyer" to me! ;-)

zueslewis · November 2001

that guy was a jerk - imagine making a fuss over having a stolen truck with a VIN swap and not being happy. Some people have a lot of nerve. I'll bet he beat up the F&I guy over the interest rate, too.

[Deleted User] · November 2001

What a mooch!

zueslewis · November 2001

CarMan@Edmunds · April 2002

The bait and switch is a time-honored staple of the car lot. If you want to get a good deal on your next car, you need to know how to protect yourself against this classic sales tactic. Here's what some industry insiders say: Bait and Switch: The Oldest Trick in the Book. Please feel free to use this discussion to talk about this article specifically or your experiences with the old bait and switch in general. Thank you.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards

abtseller · April 2002

You'd have to fall off a turnip truck to think that you're actually *not* going to get switched from an ad car. The dealership that I work at is actually pretty good about putting "real" cars in their ads that folks might be happy with. We also usually have about 4-5 of a particular model (Camry, for example) that we will sell at that price. We don't, however, run our ad cars hundreds below invoice. The Edmunds article also touts the benefits of "blast faxing" for the best deal. Luckily, that part was at the end of the article, or I would have quit reading sooner.

Ed

millerro3 · April 2002

"And if you do read those ads, check out the fine print. If it's $299 a month, it's probably a 60-month lease, with $5,000 down, doesn't include sales tax, security deposit and acquisition fees, and is with approved credit only!"

I like the exclamation point after this sentence, as if it's a huge surprise that you need credit approval to borrow money LOL

isellhondas · April 2002

That article sounds like something from 20 years ago...certainly nothing new there.

But I'm sure these practices continue...and why?

The continue because they work! The shoppers won't read the fine print because they want to believe they can buy that 25,000 car for 18,000.

As long as people respond to these screamer ads, the sleazy dealerships that run these will continue to do so!

And...fax-blast? This will accomplish very little since most dealerships are smart enough to not respond to them.

audia8q · April 2002

Not long ago we had a guy jump up and start yellin' "your not going to pull the ole bait and tackle trick on me"......everyone in the place, including customers, started laughing. The guy didn't think it was so funny...haha

Rich

raybear · April 2002

Well, did you reel him in?

audia8q · April 2002

well...I don't think we did...sometimes you just can't convince some people they arent getting cheated..haha

We were all laughing so hard it was hard to try and convince the guy about anything.

zueslewis · April 2002

a 96 nobth car loan to get $212 payments of a new 4X4 truck - read the fine print. I've written some of those ads -

KCRam · April 2002

Thursday is usually a good day for screamers in the papers. This one caught my eye - new Jeep Liberty Sport:

BUY FOR $17,985!

in the small print: "MSRP $21,255. Price includes $400 Coll Grad Rebate (if qual), $500 Military Rebate (if qual), $500 Realtor Rebate (if qual) & $1000 Lease Purchase Loyalty (if qual)"

Real selling price - $20,385. Actual discount - $870

kcram
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audia8q · April 2002

That's a gem...

Just last week I purchased real estate from a yale gradute who is a green baret on weekends and drives a jeep.

michaellno · April 2002

...the ad cars *do* exist. I bought one, once.

1992. Wife totals her Mazda Protege, need to replace it. She decides she wants a Honda Accord. LX trim level, Dark Blue, with auto transmission. Hard to find, our closest Honda dealer didn't have the combo we wanted.

One Friday afternoon we open the LA Times. A Honda dealer about 30 minutes from us (about the 4th or 5th closest dealer, IIRC) has "one" Accord LX advertised for some low price (I seem to remember something around $14,800, when MSRP was around $17K or so). We call, ask about color. Dark Blue, we're told. Is it still there? Yep, come on down.

Hop in our other car, head to the dealership. Exactly what the wife wanted. We had the financing pre-approved, so the deal took maybe 30 minutes, tops.

I guess everyone who saw that ad on Saturday and Sunday and called the dealership were complaining, however...

prophet2 · April 2002

They have to be "real" here, as stock #s are required to be in the ad. But, the ads often have the applicaton of discounts (college grad, owner loyalty, etc.) in almost unreadable fine print. Virtually no one qualifies for all of these "breaks.".

OTOH, nothing prevents the dealers from running the ad for two weeks after the unit has been "sold." They always state that all cars are subject to prior sale, so the "bait" can keep reeling the potential "buyers" (suckers) in.

andre1969 · April 2002

1) A specific "bait" car cannot be advertised once it is sold and,

2) All fine print under a certain font size is null and void.

I wonder if that'd do any good.

raybear · April 2002

I think it's hard to prove that the car wasn't sold prior to the ad going in place, but font sizes are the law in some States.

andre1969 · April 2002

...with lead times and stuff, I'm sure it's easy for a car to legitimately get sold before the ad even gets put in the paper. But I'm sure there could be a reasonable cutoff time. For instance, how much lead time does a newspaper usually need?

bretfraz · April 2002

A doc I know recently bought a Maxima SE that was one of those cars. Although it didn't have all the pricey options, it was an automatic car and was in silver on grey cloth. Very nice looking car.

He traded a Maxima GLE on it, got a decent allowance, and no hassles on the new car purchase. Of course he was the first customer at the store on a Saturday but a deal is a deal.

mvargo1 · April 2002

Jaguar runs a national ad campain offering a brand new X-Type for $349 a month. The only problem is that is on a base model car with manuel transmission in a non metallic color, and there are probably about 15 on the entire east coast. Now we have to try to do a switch into a car we actually have or offer the customer the option of ordering the car.

Oh, one more thing your order will take 3-4 months to get here. Have a nice day.

raybear · April 2002

That's nothing. BMW runs ads late in the season on cars that don't exist at all and aren't even available.

millerro3 · April 2002

we can order the cars in the ads, w/o any options--it'll be here in 6-8 weeks:-)

zueslewis · April 2002

they usually aren't the models you want to be stuck with at trade-in time, that's all.

ghulet · April 2002

I see all the time where people say 'I can get a BMW for $27k, why would I want a ..........?. Technically, yes, if you want one with base wheels (small and ugly), no sunroof (that's gonna sell well at resale), manual trans (actually, not such a deterrent on Bimmers), non-power vinyl or cloth seats. A $27k strippo is probably not so easy to find.

zueslewis · April 2002

tboner1965 · April 2002

Sport Pkg and Xenon lights.

Sliders cause more body flex.

I've never understood power seats. Of course, I'm usually the only one to drive my car, so a power seat is no big deal.

A 325i equipped like I'd like it is just under $30K sticker. European delivery would bring that to that high $27K figure quoted above. I've got a bunch of Frequent Flyer Miles from a previous career, so wifey and I could fly over first class and pick up the new toy in Munich.

Quick drive up to the Nuremburg Ring for a break-in drive 8^), the off to see Europe as we drive to a port.

Spend another week or so on the train going from place to place while our car begins it's journey.

Sounds like fun.

When?

Spring/Summer 2004.

TB

raybear · April 2002

Not so, they ran some ads in August at least one time that I recall, after the production had stopped on the 323.

millerro3 · April 2002

the factories in Germany are closed during the month of August, it doesn't mean that the pipeline has dried up though. Cars are still on their way, albeit already built. We don't order cars w/o options for stock, but it is possible that one of the ~375~ dealerships did.

raybear · April 2002

I ran a search on one as a lark. Not a single car in the whole country.

millerro3 · April 2002

If you didn't find one, there was the possibility that it could've been there...this is definitely beating a dead horse. We could get into priceline and how the price I have 'named' is not ever accepted, but that's a dead horse as well:-)

Rob

raybear · April 2002

So now we're resorting to insults!

Just because you didn't have any luck selling cars through Priceline, don't blame us.

;^)

millerro3 · April 2002

I am not insulting anyone, unless you choose to take it personally...I would never blame priceline for me not getting lucky selling cars through them, because it is pure luck, I prefer to use my brain to sell cars, not luck..ha!

8-}

tomcat630 · May 2002

Illinois finally banned ads with the "includes 400 collage grad" and other obscure rebates prices in huge font.

Now they have a real price and then "collage grads save 400 more"

Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

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Dealer's Tricks - bait &amp; switch, etc.

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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.