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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

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Comments

  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Read Jspry's two posts, #1 & #4. There are 3 possibilities:
    1) Jspry's fudging in his account.
    2) The dealer's 'persistently mistaken' about his own inventory.
    3) The dealer's lying.

    Somebody taking bets? LOL, I bet on the last. It's a no brainer.

    Proving it? Not Jspry's problem. It'll be simple enough for the AG or Lexus to prove - if they take ownership of the task and if Jspry complains.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That the salesperson honestly thought the advertised car had actually been sold.

    This happened to me awhile back. We had a Volvo 850 advertised. I knew a deal had been put together and I honestly thought the customer had taken delivery.

    Another person came to look at it and I told them it had been sold.

    Later on, when I discovered the first deal had fallen apart I called my customer back.

    They came to look at it, stuck their nose up at the color and left.

    I hate it when it's assumed every car salesperson is a [non-permissible content removed] liar!
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Yes, there's the possibility the salesguy thought it was sold, i.e. was persistently mistaken about his inventory.

    It would be really cool if one ran into [non-permissible content removed] lying so rarely when buying a car that one could realistically put that explanation low on the list of probable explanations when a car deal goes kerfluky. Life for customers and especially honest salespersons would be sooo much better.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    What you so-called car experts don't realize is that most sales people will see over 100 people in a month, write 40-50 deals, only get 20 approved and deliver 15.

    That certainly allows for car deals to go backwards, which the salesman has no control over.

    But of course, the salesman's lying, yada, yada, yada....they're all scumbags, yada, yada,...customers NEVER lie, yada, yada....
  • jspryjspry Member Posts: 16
    I'm not entirely blaming the dealership, I should've known better and left.

    Thanks for the advice, I should've posted earlier. I realize now that I should've just walked. I had my own financing but the sales guy told me he KNEW he could get me a better interest rate, so Friday night (yes, now I realize I shouldn't have looked at a vehicle at NIGHT) I signed the papers and took it home. Come Monday morning I received a phone call stating that I'd have to go with my own financing because they just couldn't get the deal done, even though he guaranteed me and reassured me that they would be able to get a better rate. When I called him on it Monday morning he denied any such claim.

    As for the scratches...I called in and asked the manager what they could do about it and was told to come in and they would take care of it because "we would never sell you a bad car." When I got to the dealership and asked to speak to the manager I was told he was out and that I should speak to my sales guy. He said "I assumed you knew they were there" and was then told there's nothing they could do and it was my problem.

    I then went to speak with another manager who kept calling me "honey" and said "well that's up to your salesman, and if he says there's nothing that can be done, that's just the way it is, HONEY."

    As for the them using the bait and switch technique:

    I'm not saying all car salesmen are scum, but I certainly think the ones at this dealership may be. I tend to think it's a "phantom" vehicle that's advertised, because my buddy was told the car was available and when he went in to look at it he was told "we have over 500 cars on this lot, why don't you take a look at this one over here instead..." When he stated that he only wanted to look at that particular vehicle he was told "oh, I'm sorry, I'm afraid it was just sold this afternoon."

    I've always had really good experiences purchasing vehicles in the past, but from the treatment I received this time around (especially from the last sales manager I spoke with) it makes me wonder if it was because I always had a guy with me before? (Just a thought...)
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    Was this a Lexus dealership? I find it hard to believe you got this kind of treatment at a Lexus dealer. I have had dealings with a few Lexus dealers in my area and they did not treat me in this manner. I would hope you were not treated any worse because you are a woman.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Bait 'n switch cars . . .
    Bait 'n switch managers . . .
    (Good thing it wasn't a bait 'n tackle shop. Sorry. ;~}. )

    I can't tell what you're wanting to do about that car, but I hope you report the lying scumbags to the AG's office.

    FWIW, I don't think they ran this on you because you're female. They ran, still run, the game on guys and gals alike - because it works, because the risks are low, and because the industry tolerates it.
  • tk865tk865 Member Posts: 52
    I honestly think you'll get more results from Lexus than from the AG..... Much quicker, too. I know the Lexus store we're partnered with is VEEERRRYYY concerned with CSI and Lexus's opinion of the store. I wouldn't EVER expect a LExus dealer to say "Well, I thought you KNEW the scratches were there....." I mean...*speechless*.... We're a TOYOTA dealer, and we go over the car with the customer in a high-intensity light area to look for scratches and defects prior to delivery so we can fix them. Sounds like your salesman has already admitted he saw the scratches - I bet LExus would come down on that like a ton of bricks. HAve you tried the GM of the store or the owner? Sounds like your salesguy may be trying to cover his hiney with some "buddy" lower-level management. I assure you, Lexus would NOT be happy to hear about a situation like that at one of their dealers.
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    Wasn't that in one of our salesmen's stories about inconsiderate buyers a few years ago?

    TB
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    yeah, it was us. We had a guy jump up an shout out that we were pulling the "bait and tackle" on him......everyone in the showroom started to laugh, salespeople and customers.
  • landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    Do you think Lexus will do anything about it even though it was on a used car? I have no experience with Lexus, but most manufacturers couldn't care less about what their dealers do with used cars.

    Bait and switch is considered an illegal tactic in many jurisdictions when the "bait" does not exist. Sounds like this place may need a little heat to staighten them out, Lexus dealer or not.
  • jspryjspry Member Posts: 16
    The dealership I went to is a Bentley dealership. Now I wish I had gone to a Lexus dealership, I've never heard of someone selling a car with scratches on it when they know about it, at least not without actually pointing that out in the first place.

    When I said "well what am I supposed to do about it if it can't be buffed out?" I was told that "well, you're going to have to get that entire section stripped and repainted." Um, EXCUSE ME??? I just bought this car and now I have to get it repainted?? I'm a bit disgusted by this whole ordeal, I may try to contact the owner, but how do I ensure I don't get the run around when trying to get ahold of him?
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Send the owner a letter, addressed to him specifically and marked 'personal', cc'ed to Bentley, the AG, the BBB, the local dealer's association, and anybody else you can think of. Maybe add a para to the effect that you'd like nothing more than to report a satisfactory resolution to Bentley, et al.

    P.S. Since 'paintwork' will hurt resale, it would be legit to get some bucks, too.
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    Well, I bought my last used car at a Lexus dealership. They pulled my credit without permission, and it turned out later (yes, I know, I should've Carfaxed it) that the car had a washed Salvage title from Washington St. Also, the salesman told me that the documentation fee included the fees for the license and title change. When I got to the F&I office the story had changed, and I had to fork over another $100 or so.

    Bottom line: don't assume that a Lexus dealer is less likely to pull a fast one just because they sell Lexus.

    -Jason
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    I'm with you on that.

    Yeah, never look over a car when its dark. I dont know if you'll have much recourse regarding the scratches. I have bought a few used vehicles and not once has the salesman/dealer pointed out scratches/chips etc. Thats why all used cars have those 'Sold AS IS' papers on the window. Now I have found that if you catch something like scratches and state you want them taken care of as part of the deal, more often than not the selling dealer will oblige.

    Good luck.
  • tk865tk865 Member Posts: 52
    I missed a few things there. My bad. I assumed the car was new. Some of the same stuff might have applied on a Certified Lexus (available only at a Lexus dealer). I know absolute beans about Bentley. For all I know their idea of conflict resolution may be to throw rocks at you until you leave.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Duck, Jspry!
  • prodigalsunprodigalsun Member Posts: 213
    If you understand the concept that you can't get something for nothing. Screamer adds are for chumps that believe the WWF is real, that Infomercials are on par with documentaries, and that MacNuggets only contain chicken.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    it's best to ignore those
    "NEW CAR FOR FREE"
    ads.

    It's sometimes a little more difficult to tell the 'good deal' ads from the 'impossibly good deal' ads.
  • landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    The bait and switch business: baaaad dealer.

    The paint scratches: You didn't look at the car before you paid for it? Yes, I know it was night, but that doesn't relieve you of your responsibility to check what you are buying.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    baaad dealer both
    baits 'n swtiches and
    sells car in dark

    Sounds like a line from a Charley Chan movie, LOL.
  • jspryjspry Member Posts: 16
    I know I'm partly to blame for all of this, but for the sales guy to tell me he assumed I knew they were there ...I would think that's something he should've pointed out.

    As for the pricing, it wasn't an unreasonably unbelievably good deal, it was just a couple thousand under what other dealers in the area are advertising, which seemed like a good price. However, in the end I could've gone with anyone considering I had to use my own financing anyways.

    What I failed to remember once I stepped into the dealership was that they were trying to sell me something that I was under no obligation to buy. My first "on my own" car buying experience ...now I know.
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    Whatever happened to the manager that told you they would take care of it and then wasn't there when you went in? Have you spoken to them again? Thats what i would try. And remember you can get more flys with honey than vinegar.

    jaser---I agree with you. Not underhanded, but same sales tactics. I was looking at a CPO 99 Rx300. The asking price was $27,000. I got them down to $25,325 and I was on my way home to get a check for a deposit. I decided I was looking at more than i could afford so i called the salesman and told him that and that I was no longer interested. he said fine. A few days later I get a voice mail from him saying he had great news. I called him back and he gave me the, "we really want to see you in this car so i am going to sacrifice my commision (yeah right) and we can sell it to you for $25,000." I told him what I meant by looking at more car than I could afford was like by a few thousand. I would not throw away a deal over $300. In the end I was glad I avoided it. Edmunds says the price should be $25,000 for a 99 cpo in that condition, so it was not really that good of a deal.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    you say...."As for the pricing, it wasn't an unreasonably unbelievably good deal, it was just a couple thousand under what other dealers in the area are advertising"....

    If everyone is selling something at $XXXXX and one person/dealer is a couple thousand less it should be a big red flag saying buyer beware. Nobody I know of would sell something for a couple thousand less if the free market values something at couple thousand more. I've never met anyone who was giving away thousands of dollars when they didnt have to!!
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    A Lexus dealer and they're calling you "Honey"? What is this, "Joe-Bob's Lexus Dealership and Check-cashing"?
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    'Tweren't a Lexus dealer; 'twas a Bentley dealer.

    'Tweren't a newspaper ad, screaming or otherwise; 'twas a website.

    'Tweren't a greedy, gullible, anything-else-bad customer; 'twas a lying, [non-permissible content removed] dealer.
  • landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    Let's see what we can do to help this person.

    Anyone have any constructive advice?
  • colie74colie74 Member Posts: 42
    why did you make a hasty decision and opt for the more expensive one? That sounds sooo much like a dealer trying to get someone into the dealer only to push the more expensive car. I would have said, no that is not the EXACT car I want with the EXACT options and color I want, I'll just keep waiting and checking other dealers until one gets one in and walk out.

    Nicole
  • jspryjspry Member Posts: 16
    I was nervous about the whole ordeal in the first place. The stupid thing is that I researched so many cars online and finally boiled it down to the kind I wanted, checked out 2 or 3 dealerships and by the time I went in there I was pretty confused about the whole thing. In retrospect, I should've walked the second I started feeling uncomfortable about the deal. I had a few second thoughts as I was signing the papers and I was about to leave and they just bombarded me with reasons why I just HAD to buy the car. I was so nervous and I just felt trapped.

    I'm really not happy with the purchase, due to some cosmetic blemishes I've found ..and the fact that my engine light went on the other day and stayed on for about 30 miles and then spontaneously shut off ..I need to call them about that as well, though I'm sure they'll probably just say "well that's your problem" to that as well **anyone have any ideas on how to handle that one???** I'm just really disgusted with the overall experience, but again, I do realize that I was 50% of the problem because I should have trusted my gut instinct that it wasn't the right thing to do.

    I am so frustrated at this point...
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    Was it a check engine light or a service engine soon light? The service engine soon light will go on at intervals for routine service times, like every 5000 miles for an oil change. Check the manual if you have one, or call a lexus dealer and ask them.

    if you don't mind me asking, what year, mileage and price was this rx300?
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    What a bummer!

    The classic advice on buying any used car is to have a mechanic check it out prior to the sale. I know 'prior to the sale' is out of the barn, and I'm not doing a spilt milk thing; but I'd have the car checked out, so you'll know what you're actually dealing with and be able to make the best decision for you. The right steps in the wrong order, perhaps; but helpful anyhow.
    Whatever the actual condition of the car, I doubt you'll have any recourse with the Bentley dealer; but you can always try. And, you'll have real info if you decide to file complaints anywhere.

    Me, I'd be so totally yucked out by now that I'd want out of the car, in spite of the $ hit of trading. Perhaps a mechanic's careful evaluation would change that feeling; or having that info could validate an expensive decision to trade. You might have a diamond in the rough, which would be cool; put some bucks into the car and have what you wanted in the first place. Or you might have a lemon and be able to cut your losses early.
    Someone better informed than I should be able to say for sure; but a Lexus dealer should be able to get the service history on the car.

    It's a good thing you bought used. A good friend bought new, wanted out, and had a BIG bullet to bite.

    Know the story of Br'ier Rabbit and the Tarbaby? I'm suggesting that you find out if you're tied into a Tarbaby first and take it from there.
  • robertc6robertc6 Member Posts: 3
    Wropte yesterday about buying a new buick and having the finance manager say i also had to pay $159 for etching although the salesman never said that. I was in a bind and needed a car so I accepted that.The salesman called me today and said the finance manager should not have made me do that.I am now on my way to the dealership to see the dealership manager and get a refund of $159 and plan to write GM about this.Glad I had a good salesman.

    Bob
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    What a cool salesguy!
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    For that $159 you could rent a car for a week in most area and take your time.

    And that's what I would have told the F&I guy, sir, if this $159 manditory charge is truly manditory, then maybe I should invest that money in a rental for the week and make sure I am getting the best deal. Or you could drop the window etch right now and I continue to buy this car at the price I've already agreed on.

    I understand that it is their job to sell you something. However, you should not feel manipulated or forced into buying what is being offered.

    Use the power of no.

    TB
  • jspryjspry Member Posts: 16
    2000 RX300 - 42k miles, $24,995 ..however when I was going over the contract, they gave me less for my trade in (99 Audi A6 2.8 Quattro which I now wish I still had ..) than they had originally promised. I asked 5 times if they were going to completely pay it off and each time I was told YES ..then it turns out they only gave me 16k for it ..BIG RED FLAG and I almost walked then too but I just felt TRAPPED sitting there in this office with 2 sales guys and 2 finance guys all telling me why I just couldn't leave because I just HAD to buy this car ...incredibly stupid maybe, but I just felt like I couldn't leave... I've thought about trading it, but I don't know that I can take the financial hit.

    The price seemed pretty good for this area ...anyone know? (I'm in Chicago.)
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    I am in SE and I looked at a 99 rx300 with 21K miles and I got them to $25K price, so not sure if yours was better deal or not. Yours may have more options, the one I was looking at I think only had the premium pkg.

    Sorry you had such a bad experience. You should not have gone alone, and it sounds like you broke every rule in the book. You have to be strong enough to walk. Read some of the other threads here and try to learn. Better luck next time.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ..... $24,9 is not a bad price if it's a 4x4 and all loaded up, probably paid $22 for it and by the time they are done (certified.?) service, pack, detail, might have $23 in it .. so $24,9 seems about fair.

           Not to sound smart, but I think you might have had a communication problem .. they Will payoff your vehicle, but if every dealer calculated a deal based on pay-offs they could hardly sell anything - see, a pay-off is a pay-off, and it's worth what it is worth ~ "2 separate entities" .. about 85% of the buying market owes more on their vehicles than what it is worth ..

                Terry.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... $25,0 that's a little on the high side, $23/$24 would be more inline .. not knowing the color, options, etc, they probably have what they have in Jspry's 00 RX. Perhaps it's better that you did pass on it or go back and re-negotiate a better deal.

            Kinda keep in mind, the lower the miles, the greater the value .. and a 99 21k RX300 4x4 in a light color in the SE is worth some jingle, could easily see $20/$21 at the auctions ..

             
                   Terry.
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    It was a 99 RX300 4x2 in woodland green (dark) with tan leather interior. It only had the premium pkg which I think for that model adds the leather, sunroof and cd changer. It was also CPO so it came with the CPO warranty. This was a lexus dealer.

    I jumped at it because of the miles. Most I had looked at that were 99 had like 35-40K. They were asking 27K, so i thought 25K was not too bad. But when i researched a little more, it looks like 25K is middle of the road price for that vehicle. So you are right, 23-24K would have been a much better deal. Oh well, I was looking at more car than I could afford anyway and it was used. I have decided on something different that I will order next week and it will be brand new and within my budget.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... Ooooh, shouldn't have told me it was a 2WD and it's no-sale green .. let's roll that puppy back to $23, and that would be the ETW (End of the World) ..

           But you are right, it's hard to find those miles. Yuk, green .. it's gonna take a "real" salesman to sell that puppy for $25 .. it's about a $500 deduct at any auction, including the yankee auctions .l.o.l..

                  Terry.
  • jspryjspry Member Posts: 16
    Actually, I asked if they were going to give me the full payoff ..I said "you're not going to add anything on top of the price of the vehicle, right?" "That's correct." "So you're going to FULLY pay off my loan?" "yes."

    As for the light ...it's the service engine light that came on. I don't have a manual for it though, so I had to order one from Lexus.
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    I actually like the dark green. Around here you see too many white, silver and black. Looks like I made a good choice. Thanks for your confirmation.
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Member Posts: 593
    ...and I've been off for a few days, so I'm just seeing a lot of these posts.

    Like "tk", somehow or other I also was under the impression that this was a new car, and voiced my opinion based on that. Since it was a used car, IMHO, you're on your own. It had scratches, you didn't see them, you bought it, it's your own fault...
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Your 'engine light' sounds like my 'malfunction indicator lamp', which comes on when the emissions system malfunctions and goes off if/when the malfunction is (self) corrected. The other indicator lamp (that Mass referred to, called 'maintenance required' on my car) comes on and stays on when an oil change is required. It goes out when the maintenance is performed AND the mechanic resets the indicator.

    Another good reason to have the car looked at.

    In some states, persistent emissions probs are grounds to rescind a used car sale or for a warranty claim against the seller.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Have we established yet that this was a Certified Pre-owned Lexus bought at a Lexus dealer?
                                  : )
                                Mackabee
  • jasmith52jasmith52 Member Posts: 462
    In your post (# 43) you referred to barns, milk, diamonds, lemons and TARBABIES. You then described the horse being out of the BARN and spilled MILK.

    What do diamonds, lemons, and tarbabies refer to ?? I would guess that diamonds and lemons refer to really great and really poor (used) cars. Who knows about tarbabies ???
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Br'ier Rabbit and the Tarbaby is an Uncle Remus story, where Br'ier Rabbit gets stuck up with a Tarbaby and then needs to 'clever' his way out.

    My point to Jspry was that if she made the dealer trip she might find out whether or not she should dump the car before she put more into it.

    LOL, too many analogies in that post!
  • prodigalsunprodigalsun Member Posts: 213
    Interesting isn't it, that disney hasn't released Song of the South on DVD?
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Sheesh!
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
This discussion has been closed.