Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I dont ask my sales people to ask the customer to ante up a check for on offer. I would tell all consumers to avoid such a dealership. If the customer says they will buy the car NOW for $xx,xxx I assume their word has some value. Many of the volume oriented, poor reputation dealerships use this method as part of the selling system the're using.
Now if the customer isnt leaving with his or her new purchase immediately (we spot delivery most of our sales) then we request a deposit...This is essentially the last thing we do before the customer leaves and this is done after the numbers are agreed to and the paperwork signed.
Rich
Here are three ways you can ask for money (commitment), without saying deposit, financial commitment, or partial payment. Remember that a deposit is only given when we have agreed on a number. This is the correct time to ask for the deposit. But until then you only need to say and use one of the following.
So how do you ask for money without saying deposit, financial commitment or partial payment?
Sincerity money:
Mr. Customer, to show the dealership that you are sincere about getting the vehicle I will need a Master Card, American Express or VISA card or do you have any money with you?
Leverage money:
Mr. Customer, I will need some leverage to show the dealership that you are serious about getting this vehicle. I will need a VISA MC, AMEX card, or some money?
Something money:
Mr. Customer I will need something to show the dealership that you want this vehicle. Do you have an VISA, MC, AMEX card or do you have any money on you?
I can get X plan pricing with Ford. That plus 0% would be very tempting.
Unfortunately, they don't currently make anything I think I would like.
I toyed with the idea of a Cobra Mustang for a few days, but it is missing two doors.
Now if they would only make a 4 door Cobra Mustang, or just bring the Mondeo ST cars over, in a hatchback please.
TB
Whatever they call what happened to you sounds fishy though. I think an old rule of thumb is to figure $100 a month for every $5000 you borrow, on a 60 month term. Did they change the length of the loan on you, or the interest rate?
Advertised prices will be exclusively based on using the rebate because that will be the lowest total price. Advertised payments will be based on the low rates because they give the lowest payments.
With Ford anyway, I have never seen a rebate that saved more than the interest rate. And I wouldn't expect to either. Ford knows the chances of someone buying another Ford will be much higher if they have had a relationship with the customer for years vs. giving somebody a big rebate so they can finance through their own bank.
But now you've really baffled me. You appear to be saying that you would rather pay cash than finance at 0% and forego the dollar savings for the convenience of not making payments. Do I have that right?
So let me get this straight. You are at this site to save money when buying a car but you are unwilling to do what you can to save money yourself?
Chalk it up to how I was raised. Specifically, if you can't pay cash for it, you don't need it. The exception being a home of course
Rich - I think that is perfectly reasonable, thank you!
Jackie
However, when it comes to owing money, that I don't like (see previous message).
I make payments to myself until I have enough to pay for the car. The car is mine. I don't owe anything on it. I like that feeling.
Could I make money by taking the 0% percent? Sure. I could also keep my car another 3 years and make even more.
I know you think I am incredibly stupid for this and I allow you your opinion. But, it makes me happy and that is worth more to me
Jackie
If less than $100/year makes you happy and sleep better at night, then yes it is worth it to buy the car.
Of course 20K sunk in a car when you could have made 20%/year in the market. (1995-2000 that was definately possible.) Then it's not such a smart since you could have better than doubled the 20k. Of course hind sight is 20/20, but there are situations where you can have your cake and eat it too. I think the money market is one, especially with the automatic payment from that account.
But, whatever gives you piece of mind.
TB
I cannot imagine a loan difference like you describe. I've certainly run into the ol' "oh, it's $10 a month higher" (which ads up in a hurry - $600 on a 5 year loan) but an extra $200 a month? Something is beyond wrong here....
The only time I've ever offered a deposit was on my Saturn L300 (ok ok, I know there's no negotiating...), because I had it factory ordered. They asked for $500 in "sincerity money" (which, kkollwitz, anyone intelligent enough to want to purchase a car is going to *know* is asking for a "deposit", no matter how nicely you euphemize it), which I felt was entirely appropriate, as I was asking them to commit to a car that they normally didn't stock in inventory (I asked for ABS, and they didn't stock cars with ABS in their main inventory.)
elfie: You and I are so similar with buying habits. I can't *stand* owing money to people (I do have a credit card, but I pay it off online asap, even before the bill comes at the end of the month - unless a particular purchase amount is just too high.) On my Saturn purchase, it was my first brand new car (I had negotiated for used ones before), and I sold enough of my stocks (Thankfully I had a lot, and with the price per share, the timing was perfect.)
When the car was delivered to the dealer, I went in, looked it over, and said "Take me to your F&I guy." hehe...so I went in, and he was very professional - didn't even try selling me any warranties, mop n' glow, etc. I did take the car care package for $500, which is a bargain (3 years' worth of oil changes, fluid checks/changes, all standard recommended maintenance.) When he asked how I'd be paying for the car, I said "Oh...cash. That's not a problem, is it?" (in a very friendly tone.)
His mouth just *dropped* open...hehe...I wrote out a check for $23,500, they checked it with my bank, and I was off in 30 minutes. I'm now good friends with most of the people who work there, as they know I'm a regular customer.
-Bryan
Yes, I agree with you, although the sales expert I was quoting seems to think it's worth it to a salesman to be able to use those 'euphemisms.'
I do things for my own peace of mind that you probably think are crazy. Like walking the customer that won't leave a deposit.
Just kidding everyone.
There can be 1000 innocent explanations of why the other car isn't available to you and perhaps this second car did in fact cost them more. Still, it doesn't sound like they're being open with you and that's not a good start for one of the biggest transactions you might ever make.
I had a friend who was looking at '00 Impalas recently. He had his eye on one and the price was attractive. He dickered and they came down - well below market. Well, he hemmed and hawed and, while he was making up his mind, the car was sold to somebody else. He saw another (identical, same mileage) '00 Impala on the lot but it was a couple of grand more expensive. He assumed they'd sell it for the same price that they had bargained on the previous one. No way. Reason? the 1st car had been accidented and restored, the 2nd was straight. I found this out from the salesman (a friend).
Not suggesting this is the case with your situation.
BTW, this thread probably belongs in "Smart Shopper"
Part of the perceived problem with today's car-buying experience is that too many volume hungry dealers have listened to "experts" in how to close sales, and not listened to enough experts in how to build trade.
Go negotiate a new deal with another dealer. If at all possible be sure to let the owner of the dealership you went to that the reason you will not buy a car from them is that they tried to use the attack of September 11 as a bargaining chip.
Suggestions - go over to carsdirect.com and configure your Impala the way you want it and see what they are selling it for. Most dealers should be able to come close to that figure. I know they are trying to actually sell cars but so far my use of them has been to get an idea of the market.
For example, a few years back, I needed a newer car, and wanted an ex police cruiser. There's a dealership about an hour away from me that specializes in them. I went out there, found one I liked, but had no way to get it back home by myself. So I put down a deposit, and came back that Saturday with my uncle to pick it up and give them a cashier's check for the rest of the amount.
If a dealership wanted me to put up a deposit check just to get them to consider an offer, I'd probably walk. It may be common practice, but it just seems to fishy, too "alien" to me! It's just not something I'm used to.
fortunetly the dinosaurs that still use the "i need a check to show good faith" are on their way out.
the few that defend these tactics are the ones that make it so hard for the sales people with ethics.
ok of the manager "
I like that one!......LOL!!!!.........
ARE MY KEYS ON THE ROOF ?
a sales person with the slightest bit of dignity would find a place where he is treated with respect from his boss.
how well do you think a customer is treated if the sales people are treated so badly?
and you sales professionals wonder why the public doesn't trust you
Do they run screamer ads there, isellpotiac?
If the salesperson gets a deposit on the vehicle, he's pretty much certain (as certain as he can be) that you won't run around and shop his deal.
It's a known fact that if you SAY you'll "be back", you won't and he's just wasted all his time if there isn't some level of commitment from you. I operated differently and I'm not defending the pressure cooker "system houses" that slam-dunk customers, but maybe consumers can understand why they are asked for a deposit and make their own judgments.
Of course, nobody here will set foot in a place like that but somebody sure as heck is.
However, I still advocate using a deposit WITH your firm offer as a leveraging tool against a dealer. If we could set up two identical situations, one with me making an offer with a deposit and you asking to be taken at your word, 9 times out of 10 I will end up paying less and 10 times out of 10 I will have my deal completed much faster.
you're all arguing with someone with blinders on
I am talking about using a deposit as a BUYING tactic that can help YOU get a better price in less time IF you are willing to to do what it takes to be able to present an intelligent offer in the first place.
You could try to use a method of jumping out in front of a bus to stop it too.
you can defend your way of doing business, but i'm sure you must have gotten the hint that you are in the minority
Talk about having blinders on!
Risk vs. reward? So far the biggest risk I heard anybody here suffer is a $15 fee to put a stop payment on a cheque. If you don't believe that you can save $15 by doing what I described in post #384 then just continue doing things the way you've been doing them. I'm sure the results will magically change for you someday.
We get paid the same, either way.
If we are offering low interest financing for, say 3.9 percent and the customer wants to write me a check, that's fine.
I may remind my customer of the low rate but I'll never try to become their financial advisor and lecture them on better usage of their cash.
Lots of people (including myself) detest owing unnecessary mone and having to write monthly checks. For a zero percentage rate, however, I would take the financing!
Potiac...as a new salesperson, I would have been screamed at by a manager in your dealership...ONCE!
And my career would have taken a different direction!
Also, how about used cars? An opening offer is much tougher there, because things like TMV, invoice, what the coworker paid, etc are much tougher to come by.
Just being paced through the steps of unethical but legal behavior is annoying. I can see how canceling a check may not be that annoying, but I think I would much better enjoy a good lunch at a restaurant for my $15. And I wouldn't be worried if I caught the check in time.
A few actually have the gall to ask!
the check first routine may work for you. it just doesn't work for the rest of us.
goes to show that price is king and most consuemrs will sell anyone/anything down, including their own ethics, the river to save the percieved 2 cents.....
Rich
I peel mine off on day 1, regardless of where I got it, by the way.
I ended up talking a couple days later to a very friendly and informative sales manager who informed me that:
a. He agreed with my opinion of the ads - they were awful!;
b. The station made a lot of money on them, and so were disinclined to not carry them;
c. Every time the campaign ran, Mitusubishi's sales went up 20%!
The point, of course is, that like you said, there are many people out there who respond to high pressure tactics. Price is king.
It's too bad - they accept that kind of sales tactic and respond to it. It keeps the screamer ads running, the method sales shops in operation, the telemarketers on our phone every night at dinner time, and we all complain about it!
Yes, it really is disheartening sometimes. The local high pressure store I mentioned constantly runs obnoxious screamer ads on TV and newspaper. Everyone in the area has heard of them. If you mention the name of the store in conversation you get looks of disgust mixed in with words like "crooks" "liars" etc. Yet they are at the top of the sales chart every month. In September they doubled the 2nd place store's output.
I have never (and I mean NEVER) had a previous customer of theirs tell me they had anything but trouble with them yet they still sell the most cars month after month.
I know so many good salesman and managers (myself included) that drool at the thought of having their traffic and results but that could never handle working in that type of environment.
One week later, the same ad was run with the same sticker number as was in the ad that caught my eye.
So much for unique sticker numbers.
If it's reasonably busy and a salesman brings me an offer without a deposit I will send him back with a counter-offer automatically (and it'll be more than $15 higher
If he comes to the desk with an offer and a deposit and there is some profit in the deal I would take the deal so the salesman can quickly move on to another customer.
If it's slow and I have the time, then in the first scenario I may come out and meet the customer and try and judge for myself how good his word seems to be. If I feel he is trustworthy I will probably still try a counter-offer (probably lower than the one above) but accept his original offer if he tries to walk. At this point, if he still walks because of a perceived slight on his character I say "whew," and think about the crummy survey I just avoided.