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Comments
Will it be yet another "reskin" of the J body?
~alpha
1) It was co-develped with Toyota rather than re-badging a Corolla. GM did all styling and interior. Toyota supplied the engine and platform.
2) Toyota is actually exporting and selling the Vibe version in Japan, not the Matrix.
Cavalier is WAY overdue to be replaced. Lutz better put it at the top of the priority list.
This is one of the best things to be done to the J car line since the V6 of '88.
I was really concerned the Cavalier would become another Chevette or Pontiac [Daewoo] LeMans.
It had better be knock you on your keister good, since GM will go ANOTHER 20 years before they update the 2004...or 05....or 06.
Its time to move on.
No one is denying that the current Cavalier design [ extensively updated in 94 ],is behind the times. Personally I don't find the benefit of chasing technology for technology's sake or newness for newness sake so you can be "up to date" is worth the cost in complexity and aggravation when the time comes to make repairs or replacement." Much like "kitchen needs updating" on the home shows.The cupboards still hold things the same way, the appliances still cook the same way, or cool the same way. After awhile you have to wonder: "Who will be the beneficiary of the "update"[me or the neighbors?] and at what cost for that benefit over what works right now?" In other words:who is the gourmet kitchen for if you never bother to cook?
People don't much have the opportunity to be like the people in the ads with wide open spaces and wind in the hair good weather.Most driving is the daily shuttle to and from work, the supermarket, the mall, stuck in commuter traffic or surface street battles, or sitting in drive through.Then the "refinement" and "sophistication" really are just water cooler bragging points in an office pissing contest.:-}The Cavalier while not an "icon" certainly is as simple as you will find these days.
Just an aside, the current Cavalier owes itself more to the last generation Grand Am/Achieva/Skylark than it does the original; itself having spawned the 85 and on Somerset[Skylark], Grand Am,and Calais and later 88 and up Corsica/Beretta "N" cars. The 95 and up Cavaliers were then based on the more up to date "N" platform though still called "J". The only thing left from the original are some stampings for the cowl and a few other pieces.
Best to buy two J cars, so there is a spare when one of those "cheap" parts goes out.
I guess "most" small car buyers aren't taking advantage of the 2500 dollar rebates, are uninterested in the standard air conditioning,CD player,ABS,superior rust proofing [galvanized on both sides to the roof],and other features. So many consider the Cavalier a 'joke' that Chevrolet STILL sells 200-300,000 of them a year.
Oh yeah.....and all 4 million of them that have been sold were all junk.
The assumption that because the next design may [or may not according to an earlier post re: Rob Lutz] come from GM/Germany will be "superior" is questionable.Not only does "new" not necessarily equal 'better', Opel does not have that hot a rep. for 'reliabilty' in Europe or [as witness the Catera and Saturn "L'] in the US. And unless they've driven the Catera [and in which case you would be comparing apples to oranges], most of the posters making this claim of "superiority" [simply because everyone assumes anything European is 'better'],have never driven an Opel of ANY kind unless it was a CHEVETTE,PONTIAC LEMANS or an ISUZU I-MARK from the early 80s.Not exactly sterling examples of fine European design.
And I have still not read a plausible explanation of how "new" equals "better".
Cavaliers have to sell with $2500 rebates to high risk buyers, how long can they do this? With the low resale, I am sure most of the buyers will be upside-down in their 60-72 month loans. Also, most of the "4 million sold" are recycled steel now.
A friend has a 1999 that he can't wait to get rid of and it drives like a 1982 Chevette.
People looking for "simple, reliable transportation" are turning to imports such as Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, and Kia faster then water over Niagra Falls. And, they are breaking sales records without $2500 rebates!
BTW.. Have had a 99 Cavalier on lease and it's been fine. Only problem was a bad shock fixed under warranty.
One good change is the EcoTec engine!
The Eco-Tech is already available in the current Alero and Grand Am as well as the Saturn L Series and will be soon in the Cavalier.
I do not disagree that the design is long in the tooth, and GM should be brought up on charges for only adding content instead of constantly improving the design. It is after all, according to the car rags I've read,GMs biggest passenger car seller and for many of them the first GM vehicle they've owned. Not a good idea to spend ridiculous amounts of development money on overlapping and duplicated truck product, while letting a popular first time buyer choice languish, especially when they might even be convinced to MOVE UP to one of those vehicles.
And what in H*** is wrong with getting a discount off the selling price??? Only in re: to the Cavalier could someone see that as a "fault"!!! Outrageous. Sort of like the high school kids making fun of the kid with the K-mart sweater.As if paying too much for an item gave you taste and sophistication! Really screwed up priorities. Paying MORE is NOT good.Why else would a book like "Paying Retail Is Stupid" be so popular?
For the rest of us, we are looking forward to the 2004 Chevrolet Astra that should help GM re-ignite the samll car segment that they abandoned long ago...around 1981.
Roger Smith, the GM CEO known as the bean counter of the first degree, is responsible for much of the maladies that still affect GM to this day. This individual is the craftsman behind the embarrasing J-Body cars and all its brilliant derivatives such as the Cadillac Cimarron, which was the LOWEST point GM and Cadillac could ever get to in the industry.
I don't want a 20 year old unsafe and dubious piece of junk. I want a WORLD CLASS safe, reliable, modern, high quality and reliability and enjoyable to drive Opel Astra in my driveway.
Some of you seem not to have been to Europe in recent years. I have seen/driven the current Euro Astra and it is 1 million light years away and then some from the Crapalier.
Enjoy your Crapaliers because GM is shelving this antique relic very, very, very soon.
Following is an article I read describing GM's small car plans for the next few years, based upon a GM presentation to financial analysts on 1/10/2002:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/autoreport/message/10
There is nothing posted here that has not been untrue in most cases. It also does not make the idea that simply because it comes from Europe, it's automatically a world beater, and the examples I have given prove that. And itr also doesn't change the truth of what I have said.
I am sure it is true that the Next Gen. Cavalier will be be vastly "improved". My point is that the current example does what it is supposed to do inexpensively and efficiently.There are those out there though, who cannot have an objective discussion about this car without making unsubstantiated claims such as:"it's a 20 year old design which it is NOT [and which was explained in some detail several posts back, do these things not get absorbed?] or "my friend has one and it's a POS".Perhaps I'll go onto the VW Jetta or New Beetle forums and post the same statement about my friend's Rabbit.There's no credibility in that.
There is a definite element of snobbery in reference to the Cavalier [or any inexpensive car]and that seems to hold true for any item made available to the masses. The socio- anthropologists have been sneering at the suburbs for years. People made fun of the Model T, the Beetle as well [which was out of date the minute it started production]and any other item so called "commoners" embraced.Regardless of the fact that IT WORKS!!!!
I have gone onto the maintenance forum and read the posts for the New Beetle and Jetta. Fine German engineering, but I've never seen the kind of problems referenced THERE, or the arrogance of the dealerships shown to those with problems. Haven't heard of any 2.2s burning oil and needing rings at 15,000 miles and on and on.I thought if you paid more you got better quality???? I thought Eurodesign was superior.......I guess all those "cheap parts" on Cavaliers are less worthy than the expensive ones that so many seem to be replacing on the VW sites.
I am matching absurdity for absurdity. Homerkc has summed up the reasons for a new and "improved " Cavalier very well.
BTW: The Cimarron may have been a really lousy Cadillac.....but it was a GREAT Cavalier! :-}
The LeMans was based on the 80's Kadette, which in Europe was considered a good car, but Deawoo made the LaMans cheaply and we know the rest of the story.
The Chevette was a RWD Kadette and wasn't so bad until it was outclassed by competitors by 1980.
My opinion is that the Cavalier needs up dating, if they keep the J platform, then it should have new chassis components and other parts to make it more solid.
If quality is "Job. #1" at Ford, I cringe at the thought of what Jobs #2 and #3 are.
~alpha
Back to topic..
There is a market for cars that simply get the job done. I hope the next generation Astra/Cavalier is a good one, but I have my suspicions that no matter HOW good the next one is; it STILL will not satisfy many of the posters who have an irrational hatred for them.