Saturn S-Series

babywolf · June 2001

Hello, I just leased a 2001 SL1 about five weeks ago as a replacement for an older Saturn model. I must say that in some ways it is much improved over Saturn's before the 1998 model year.

My 2001 is quieter, smoother, and has a few more features, plus, the SL1 now has painted bumpers- improving its looks greatly I believe. It already has around 1700 miles on it- been good so far (knock on wood)

sergeis · June 2001

I have '96 Saturn SC1 (38Kmiles), which I got just recently. It seems to drive very nicely, but yesterday the power brakes failed to respond for ~5-10 minutes after turning from a highway to a city (AC running) - you could still brake but with no assistance from hydraulics. After parking for a while and restarting the engine it was OK again. The can with power brake fluid was full, and everything seems to be very clean under the hood. Any idea?

sergeis · June 2001

It seems to happen when it is hot and AC is running. Is power brake system electrical or it runs by the same belt which runs AC?

norbert444 · June 2001

Yesterday, our dealership had a free 27-point car checkup. Although I had bad experience with their mechanics during the first year of my 95 SL2, I went to see if they have changed.

The people have changed, but the methods have not. The mechanics left the air connection at the mixing head loose ("Oh, it is easy to tighten, just do this"), stripped the mounting washers on my brake drums ("Oh, they only put them on in the factory, we don't do that here") and they were power-tightening my wheel lugs ("Hey, Jose, he wants them hand-torqued"). I do not know what else they did incorrectly, but expect to find out later, I suppose. I checked and was told they are all factory-trained.

The message of what they found follows...

babywolf · June 2001

I take it that it is safe to say you won't be attending any more "extra help" clinics which are often not needed for a car with no mechanical probelems.

Funny thing about those work shops, when you go looking for problems, you find them, or should I say, they find you

norbert444 · June 2001

yeah, they cured me of the longing I had for them.

So, this is what they found (their $$ estimate) [with my comments]:

Worn wiper blades ($10) [no way I want them new yet].

Wrong coolant ($99) [I inquired how they found that. The man said the color is red and it should be green.]

Oil change ($29) [I just replaced the oil about 500 miles ago, but the dipstick showed it at a low level. I need to simply add a quart soon at for about $1.]

Camcover gasket leaking oil ($135). [I replaced the original head gasket about a year ago, since all the oil wells on my SL-2 engine were full of oil. The gasket holds but the mechanic found some residual oil with a flashlight in one of the spark plug wells. I am sure I did not wipe all the oil out completely, starting with cupfulls in each well.]

Upper TA (engine) mount worn out, causing excessive engine vibration. ($99). [This one worries me to the point that I will start watching it.]

-----
What is your folks opinion?? Appreciate any comments/advice.

tazereli · June 2001

ONE THING ABOUT THAT COOLANT, GM'S DEXTRON COOLANT IS EITHER RED OR ORANGE (OR SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN). nOW IM NOT SURE IF ALL GM'S USE THIS OR NOT BUT I WOULDN'T BE SUPRISED IF SATURN DID TOO. SO ITS NOT THE WRONG COLOR. HAVE THE MECHANIC DO A HYDROMETER TEST ON THE COOLANT TO SEE IF ITS STILL GOOD. THAT SHOULD SAVE YOU ABOUT 99 DOLLARS.

93saturnsl1 · June 2001

Some Saturns have the red Dex-Cool in them, and some the regular green. If it has red, you HAVE to use red in it again (something about it not having phosphates in it or something). If it has green, you should be able to use both... I switched to the Dex Cool in our other cars since it's good for 5 years. I find it odd that my '93 SL1 came with the red Dex Cool in it, and the '95 SL2 that we had came with the green stuff in it.

southern_gal · June 2001

I have a '98 SL2. It's dark green with 36,500 miles, and almost fully loaded, with power windows/locks, spoiler, ac, alarm, automatic, sunroof and an aftermarket CD player. I was wondering if anyone else had a '98 SL2 and if they'd had any problems with theirs, how many miles, etc. The only real problem I've ever had with mine is that the trunk broke. It'd open, but it wouldn't close. I finally got it fixed and it's been fine. Other than a few people hitting me in the parking lot, I've never been in any accidents with it and I've had it for almost a year and a half. My only real complaint is the Firestone tires. Ick. It's been a good car, albeit not always a thrill to drive. But I appreciate it for what it is, and I know I'm very lucky that my parents bought me this car.

danili16 · July 2001

Hey, I'm back again! This time with a more serious problem. I hate Saturns. (well that's not the problem). I bought my '96 SL2 6 weeks ago, and since then, it's been nothing but problems. Took it to Brandy's (mistake) and they replaced the ignition coils and kit, and the crankcase positioning sensor. What for? I have no idea. It made no difference starting or running the car. The Oxygen sensors need to be replaced...there's another 400 bucks. The brakes still shudder, the steering is still way too loose, the speakers rattle and blow too easily, my sunroof is loose again, my headlights keep going out of alignment, the car interior feels like it's held together with sticky-tack, my wheels are already out of alignment, and NOW, it's making this bad "Crunching" sound again from inside the engine itself. It happened before only when the engine vibrated excessively, now it happens all the time. It sounds like the cylinders are loose and are banging against something. It's almost like an intermittent, faint "diesel" sound, and frankly, it makes me nervous. Anyone know what it is?? Thanks! -Dan

afk_x · July 2001

I am very sorry to hear about your problems. You mention that you hate Saturns. I assume its because the Saturn you now own is nothing but trouble. Your problem isn't with Saturns in general - in fact you have a very different problem.

You bought a major P.O.S. - a car that probably has been abused.

Where did you buy it from? If you got it from a dealer I would go back and try to find out why they sold you such a pile and try to get them to fix it or take it back. If they are a reputable dealer they will probably be willing to work with you.

WARNING TO ANY USED CAR BUYERS OF ANY MAKE AND MODEL

Have an inspection done before you buy the car by a third party - or make them give you in writing a 3 day money back guarentee so you can have the car checked out.

In any case the vibration is probably a worn out motor mount.

garrettwade · July 2001

I have had my second Saturn for two months; it has almost 4000 miles now. The second day I had my car I took it on the highway and noticed the steering wheel shook intermittently (but violently) when at speeds above 55, I took it in to the service department that day and they said the wheels were out of balance and the toe was off center and that should fix my problem. But, right when I got on the highway to take it home I noticed nothing had changed. Unfortunately I was not able to take the car in again till a month latter. At that time I was able to leave it for a few days, I left the same instructions about the steering wheel shaking, intermittently, at speeds above 55. This time the service department took it in on a 30-minuet drive and said they experienced shaking but that was caused from the highway, hence they changed nothing. Since I have yet to get on the highway for more than a 30 minuets and not experience the searing wheel shake I find this strange. This is my second new Saturn, I remember tiring to solve all the problems with the first one, it took about six months, but after all the kinks were fixed it ran for 100,000 no problems, hence the reason I bought a second. Is there anyone out there who has experienced a similar problem and if so what did they do to fix it?

300silverbulit · July 2001

I don't have this problem but there was a interesting segment on the motorweek tv show. The tech for the show was explaining that after wheel alignments ect. are done and a car still shakes at high speed. There is a machine that the wheel/tire is put on and spun, a computer reads the surface of the tire and gives the tech a mark on the wheel. The tire then has to be taken off the wheel and match up exactly with that mark. it has something to do with the tire matching up at just the right spot on the wheel. I forget what the machine was called but it was made just to determine this mark on the wheel where the tire needs to match up to. You may want to call around to dealers or tire shops that have this machine. The tech on the show really seemed to say that this was the thing to do after all else has failed to get rid of wheel vibration. motorweek is on the speedvision network so thier website may have a way to get more info about that program and the tech help segment on the program.

rdeschene · July 2001

The wheel test equipment is from Hunter, and here's a couple of Motorweek links that refer to it. If these don't seem to work, go to www.pbs.org, the Motorweek site, click on Search and sear ch for tires.

I thought it was neat that Motorweek's on Speedvision, as I've been a PBS fan for about 10 years now (since I moved to within broadcast distance of the States) and just love Motorweek. It's no Wall Street Week with Louis Rukeyser, but then again, what is? ;-)

http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweekold/goss/goss1938.html

http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweek/goss.shtml

babywolf · July 2001

At almost three months old, and 3300 miles, my 2001 SL1 hasn't had any mechanical problems so far... (knock on wood).

Compared to my 1998 Saturn SL which I had previously, my 2001 doesn't score as high in the build quality area, but only has minor groans at times.

I believe/hope it will be as economical and dependable as my last Saturn, and I must say this one looks much better.

umba11 · August 2001

I have a 2001 SL2 with 20000 miles on it. I get a slight vibration in the steering wheel between 65-70 mph. Its seems to be worse when I am going uphill. At speeds of about 70 or higher the vibration goes away. Tires have been balanced and still have problem. Has anyone else had this problem?

93saturnsl1 · August 2001

Take your car back to where you got the tires done at. I had mine done a while back, and my SL1 started shaking like it was strung out on crack. I took it back in, and only 1 tire had been balanced, and the other 3 had no balancing weights on them at all.

300silverbulit · August 2001

Have any info about the upcoming (finally) all new Saturn 03 GM delta platform S-series?

All I know so far is the ecotec engine 4-cyl found in the L-series and making it's way into other GM models now will be poweering it. I have seen one heavily disguised spy photo in AMI Auto World magazine (July issue) but it diddn't give away much at all. It's only a year away yet Saturn is being really tight about it.

rmoore080 · August 2001

I'm a first-time Saturn owner, having purchased a 2001 Saturn SL last November (20,543 miles as of 30 minutes ago), just to tide me over for awhile. I narrowed down my choices between the Saturn SL and the Toyota Corolla and finally went with the Saturn because I didn't like the way the Toyota place handled its business. Sloppy. The Saturn dealership's operation seemed to flow a lot better.

Of course, the Saturn delaership's primary goal is out to take my money (if it isn't they don't deserve to be in business) but they do it with so much more STYLE than other dealers. They know who I am, they are always VERY efficient, and ALWAYS wash my car (sounds trivial, but it's just . . .STYLE).

I religiously change my oil every 4000 miles, and I have been getting 35 mpg IN THE CITY WITH THE AC ON. Yeeha. About twice a year I make an 1800 mile trip and I have gotten 40-41 mpg on some stretches. Inside it's cheap, and pretty crowded, and boy do I miss power door locks.

Note to those people complaining about imperceptible steering wheel shaking at 75 mph: if you're that obsessive, get a REAL car, like a BMW or Mercedes. If, like me, you can't afford one, then quit bothering the dealerships with complaints like this.

I like my Saturn and am so far very happy with it.

afk_x · August 2001

I am very optimistic about this car. Thus far Saturn has been VERY VERY tight lipped about the car. I have never seen such secrecy. My hope is that the car is THAT GOOD so they need to keep it a secret from competitors and customers considering a current S series car.

umba11 · August 2001

Just wanted to let Mr. Moore know that the steering wheel vibration has now become a shake. I have driven 3 other SL2s with no shake at all.

ochssk · August 2001

We are approaching 70K on our '95 saturn sl2 and are considering a new vehicle. I'm curious how many miles others have on their saturns. So far ours does not burn oil (YET!).

regfootball · August 2001

probably because they still havent finalized the design yet or something.

Here's hoping they at least keep the dent resistant panels for the WHOLE car, unlike the L, which has steel rear quarters.

blackgtp · August 2001

I'll try to make a long story short. I had a 97 neon that, when new, had a steering wheel shake that was still there after a wheel balance. I rotated the tires one at a time and narrowed it down to a certain tire. The tire was bad and replaced by Goodyear under warranty.
I now have a 01 SC2 with 33,500 miles and my steering wheel is smooth and has been since new. I have been up to 95 MPH with no shake. The rotors are starting to warp. Hopefully they won't get too bad. The brake pads still look new since all my miles are highway. Overall a good car for the money.

norbert444 · August 2001

I have close to 60K on my 95 SL2. It also burns (almost) no oil.

300silverbulit · August 2001

I have 108k on my 94' SL2 auto. I use a little oil between changes, but not more than half a quart. I have had to replace the altenator (under warranty) the top engine mount. Both of which are common repairs to S-series cars. When I hit 106k miles the water pump needed replacemant as did the engine belt and belt tensioner. and muffler and strap. I would say it's good to 100k miles then you may have nickel and dime repairs like I am dealing with. However it is running very well with good performance and gas mileage.

The 03' S-series will be built on GM's "delta" platform and have the polymer panels and use a version of GM's ecotec engine in 1.8 or 2.0 liter sizes. There is a article about a Saturn supercharged roadster based on the new delta platform on the Saturn.com site. It has a instrument cluster like the Toyota Echo in the middle of the dash. I hope this design doesn't make it to production though, I think it could turn off alot of drivers to the car.

wwhite2 · August 2001

I have a blackberry 99 SC2 with 70K miles and need hub bearings ( both sides ) the car is driven on the highway 95% of the time at 65-70 mph it seems like wheel bearings should last more than 70 K miles this is 2001 not the early 80's P.S. The car uses a quart of oil every 1K miles it started doing this at about 45-50 K and it likes to burn out driving lamp bulbs .

lvbearam · September 2001

In May, I bought a 2000 SL1 from my local Saturn dealer. It's now September, and so far things have been great. The car gets about 25-30 miles per gallon in regular driving (auto/AC); it's reasonably peppy and very stable at high speeds. (So smooth in fact, I've caught myself going 80 miles an hour plus!)
Only a few minor problems, including a broken sun visor fitting (which was fixed under warranty). I'm keeping to the regular Saturn maintenance schedule.
I've seen stories by the so-called "car nuts" who want passion in their driving machines, and think Saturns don't have any passion. Maybe so. But I need good transportation, not a flash-in-the-pan. Maybe if these self-described "car experts" had to drive to work every day like most of us, they'd realize reliability and competence will win out over horsepower or whether you can take the curves at 90. I'm sticking with my Saturn.

gasman1 · September 2001

My '00 Saturn SL (5-speed and AC) has 68,000 miles and is running great. No oil usage (Mobil 1) and getting 39-41mpg every week. I put at least 1K miles on it every week (mostly highway).

Changed the spark plugs today (didn't need it - the originals looked great). Went with "Bosch PLUS 4" and noticed a slight pick-up in acceleration.

paesano · September 2001

I have recently purchased a 2001 SL1 (3 weeks ago) and immediately noticed a vibration at speeds above 80 km. I have had the car back twice. The tires were balanced-no change- and then replaced - all 4- better but still doing it. Has anyone else had this problem and actually had it resolved? I am taking the car in for a third time and if it still doesn't get fixed I may ask for an exchange or refund, I have 7 more days to decide.I like the car otherwise, gutless but great gas mileage.

P.S. the stock tires are Firestone FR680, any feedback would be Greatly appreciated

300silverbulit · September 2001

Go back in this thread a bit and there are some ideas on what to do about vibration.

If you return it you may wan't to look at used SL2's. Power is much better as well as handling with the twin cam engine and 15" wheels and a rear anti-sway bar. The car is basically the same since the first year it came out so a 99 or 2000 model will still have the improvements over the early years and you won't really be getting a older car. Gas mileage is still decent with the twin cam but I have noticed a huge difference depending on how I drive heavy or feather foot. 94 SL2 auto.

afk_x · September 2001

Drop the car off and tell them you will pick it up when it doesn't vibrate. Be nice - but firm.

I wouldn't risk it

If they can't fix it - return it.

ochssk · September 2001

We recently took our 95 saturn in for yet another alternator and also had the front brakes done. After getting the car back we noticed a clicking sound when backing with the wheel turned to the right. When going forward with the wheel to the right we heard a grinding noise. Could this be related to the brake job? or worse is it the CV joint? Shouldn't a mechanic notice a torn CV boot when doing the brakes?

ochssk · September 2001

It's not the CV joint thank goodness. Apparently our new front tires are slightly bigger than the old and contacting the wheel well when the steering is cranked. Also the exhaust was loose and rattling. Back to discount tires to complain.

paesano · September 2001

After having my NEW 2001 SL1 in the shop three times in under 4 weeks I was told that Saturn is aware of the problem but did not have a fix at this time, just a lot of ideas, which my dealer tried. They also told me it seemed to be predominately on 5 speed models. I had an automatic for a loaner and took a demo out for an extended test and decided to exchange for the auto. They gave me no hassles. They were great about the whole thing. I woud definitely recommend the Saturn "experience" to anyone looking for a new or used car - they have a 30 day exchange on used as well.

afk_x · September 2001

I haven't experienced any vibration problems myself in the S, but its nice to know that you are still a satisfied Saturn owner.

chasmala1 · September 2001

Does anyone know of any web sites that have spy pictures of the new SL models that will be coming out in 2003? Also, is the thinking to introduce the new '03 well before the end of the model year, more in the spring of 2002?

300silverbulit · September 2001

The only spy pic I have seen was in AMI auto world magazine July issue. It had alot of camo cover on it but it had the overall shape of the current S-series sedans. It was picked cold weather testing in sweden. Kind of like the shape of the Ford Focus. There was no way to see any details of the body just the overall shape from the back of the car. They are being very secretive of this new car and platform for GM's new line of compacts. I don't think it is on the net though. GM is really being tight about it. I really wan't to replace my 94' SL2. It is in excellent shape but I wan't something with more equipment and overall better performance. from what I have heard in the rumor mill the delta platform S car will be it.

babywolf · September 2001

As many of you already know, I leased my second Saturn S Series in may of this year. My SL1 5 speed now has close to 6,000 miles and I have no mechanical problems to report (knock on wood).

It has been a great car so far, and as far as wheel vibration goes, at speeds of well over 75mph I haven't experienced any wheel vibration, I too cannot wait till the 2003 S Series arrives- assuming it is what Saturn and GM claim it will be- I will be trading my 2001 SL1 in for one.

93saturnsl1 · September 2001

What exactly is causing all this wheel vibration I've been seeing on here? Shouldn't it just be a tire out of round or balance, and not the car itself? Mine only did that once, and the tire shop forgot to put the balancing weights on one of the tires. It has always run smoothly, even with the 173K on the odo and at speeds up around 90mph even.

floridian · September 2001

If you hurry to the Florida Auto Auction in Orlando you may be able to pick up my leased 1998 SC2. It's the one with the peeling paint,oil burning engine (at 36K yet) and ratty interior. All the squeeks and rattles will not be noticed tho unless you can drive it, if you can actually get it to run "one more time" LOL !! Gone and kindly forgotten. GM you should be ashamed !!

Floridian

rdeschene · September 2001

"What's the cause of these good vibrations ?

What's the cause of this excitation ?

Could it be Affinity perturbations ?

Firestone giving me bad vibrations...
...soon I'll be needing de-fibrillation

(singing falseto now) Bad, bad, bad, bad vibrations

(Tenor) YEAH!

(singing falseto now) Bad, bad, bad, bad vibrations....(fade out)"

With apologies to The Beach Boys, and no apologies to Firestone for not understanding the term: Quality Control. It's not "the lab" guys - it's the people on the floor and the manufacturing process you approved. These are only ones who can ever control the quality of the product coming off the line.

But they wont make marginal product if they can't sell it. Write GM TODAY !!! "Dear Sir or Madam, why do you continue to use substandard parts as OEM equipment? ..."

joe3891 · September 2001

If you dislike GM cars why do you keep buying them,by last count you have owned every model they make.

floridian · September 2001

jo3891: Wrong, Joe I have not personally "owned" a GM product since my 1967 Camaro. The 1998 Saturn was a company owned lease car that we got stuck with because the sales rep it was assigned to finally refuse to drive it any more and decided to provide his own vehicle on a cost per mile re-embursement plan. Ths Sonoma PU was taken in partial payment from a customer that went BK and owed us a pile of money. It too will be gone shortly along with the last of the Chevy "Cadavers" and Pontiac Sun flops.My personal cars consist of a Mitsu (wifes)A Boxter (mine) and a Tiburon, household "toy"

Regards loridian

afk_x · September 2001

Sounds like you had a poor car. The weird thing is the paint. I have never seen a Saturn where the paint didnt hold up extremely well. Even the 9 and 10 year old cars I see the paint is in great shape.

floridian · September 2001

afkx: The paint still had a nice gloss to it but VERY brittle. Would chip and scratch very easily compared to other vehicles we have in the fleet.I agree, most Sats you see running around that are five or six years old DO look pretty good.

Ours had a lot of "orange peel" tho. For some reason Saturn did not feel the need to clearcoat the inside of the deck lid and hood. One dealer I shopped the thing to swore to me that the car had been wrecked and a poor repaint done and what did I think I was trying to pull on him LOL.

Oh well, it's all history now. Onward and upward to better things. Don't look back.

Floridian

babywolf · September 2001

Im sorry you had such a horrible Saturn, luckily most of them are not in the condition you claim yours was- and it is a good thing that it was a fleet vehicle and not truly yours- because I suspect you would be very bitter had it been yours.

I on the other hand, love my Saturn, my second one to be exact. The paint and finish is excellent, as it was on my last Saturn. Good luck to you

joe3891 · September 2001

Does that also include the S-10 that was so called given to you.

floridian · September 2001

joe3891: Not a S-10 but a 2000 Sonoma Extra Cab 4 cyl(groan)automatic.

It was not "given" to me (or the business) we took it in lieu of a debt owed to the company from a customer that was about to go belly up.

I just think for a vehicle that had a MSRP of over 20K you sure did not get much for your money. Sure am glad we didn't buy the thing. Twenty grand and not even power windows or locks or mirrors !! Door and hood gaps you could throw a dead cat thru (come to think of it, it kinda smells like a dead cat inside too LOL), shut the door and the tailgate rattles as well as that third door , ah yes, great QC out of that plant in Shreveport,LA.

Floridian

joe3891 · September 2001

A dealer in my area just adv a new 2001 Sonoma 4cyl,auto,ac,ext cab for $12999.

Saturn S-Series

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