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Saturn S-Series

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Comments

  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    joe3891: That's just about what the MSRP should be in the first place LOL !! $2000 cash back and now 0% financing for up to 60 months and they STILL can't move the things off the lots.

    Floridian
  • joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    In my area you can't find one on the used car lot,very rare.They are on the roads everywhere.Way more popular than Ford or DC.
    That says it all.
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    joe3891: Well Joe, If folks want to pay too much for a inferior quality vehicle then I guess that's their business. As for me, I'll pass, thank you ery much !!

    Just a little side item. I have two close realitives that work for GM. One in Ohio and one in Flint Mi. They have NO GM vehicles in their families. I wonder why LOL !!

    Floridian
  • joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    I guess i'll check out the Ford,DC & Ricer sections i like to read how they rip them up,maybe you could help them out.
  • 93saturnsl193saturnsl1 Member Posts: 27
    Does anyone know if there's a way to adjust the clutch pedal in a '93 SL1? I had a repair shop put a new clutch in it, and it always released real low to the floor, just keeps getting a little lower as time goes on. Someone told me there should be a way to adjust the pedal, either on the pedal itself, or on the tranny somewhere. Thanks for any info.
  • majorthomechomajorthomecho Member Posts: 1,331
    Automotive News is reporting that the rumors are true. The name S Series is dead and the new car will be called the Ion.
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    As some may or may not know, Saturn is offering 0.0% interest, free interest for 60 months on 2001 Saturn's and 2002 models are 0.0% for 36 months. Hopefully this will roll some Saturn's off the lots...
  • ken1776ken1776 Member Posts: 41
    Sorry Major but the Saturn S series was dead a long time ago. It just took the Saturn faithful a little longer then most to realize it.
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    Some people may feel that while the S Series is with out a doubt, in need of a full redesign, which is coming next year, some may feel the S Series is simply a dependable if not exciting car to own and operate.

    As I know, and others as well, you were unhappy with your Saturn and expressed it here. I for one will miss the S Series name badge, but the small line of Saturn cars will go on with the name "ION"

    The name "ION" is said to represent innovation, cutting edge, etc, and can be further reviewed at www.saturnfans.com
  • taxman10taxman10 Member Posts: 59
    New to this board so excuse me if this is a tired old question.
    Got my daughter a 2002 SL2 in August. I hated the standard Firestone Affinities and researched replacements. I noted that the optional SL2 wheels/tires and those on the SC2 are 195/60/15. I asked the local service manager if there would be any problem swapping and was told "no". The Saturn customer Tech folks said "maybe but not likely". I know that the slightly different size will put the odo and speedo off some but my main concern was the traction control/ABS - I know fit is not an issue even with the standard steel wheels.
    I have a hard time believing that Saturn does anything to the SL2 when folks order the alloy wheels and get the larger tires - could they possibly adjust some computer chip to modify the odo/speedo or is this an analog connection - my guess is analog/mechanical? I think the ABS/Traction control should be fine as well.
    Anyone know or have an opinion ? The new rubber makes quit a difference so I hope I did not make a mistake.
    Thanks for any help
    Mike
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    You have absolutely nothing to worry about. Switching from 185/65R15 to 195/60R15 will not change your speedo, odo, or your ABS operation. As long as you follow a certain rule with upsizing tires, you will have no problems. If you stay within a certain rim size, 15" in your case, than increasing the width of the tire by 10 mm will not change anything as long as you lower the sidewall height by 5 mm. So, by upsizing from 185 to 195 mm and lowering the sidewall height from 65 to 60mm, you have stayed within the specs of the speedo. People can order those size tires because Saturn doesn't have to worry about recalibrating the speedo. Well, I hope this helps ease your mind.
  • jreasejrease Member Posts: 14
    I replaced the wheels on my '91 SL2. They no longer looked as good, try as I might to clean them up. Like my new wheels much better. Anyone have any ideas on where I can sell my originals for whatever I can get for them? I'll start with my Saturn dealer to see if they can point me somewhere. Can't imagine they'd want to pay me for them.
  • taxman10taxman10 Member Posts: 59
    Thanks, I didn't think there was a problem either. needed reassurance.

    tojrease, re your 10 year old rims - recycle/toss those puppies. They have served their useful life.
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    As some of you may or may not know, there is quite an interesting article in regards to General Motors new reliability ratings, which were pulled up by ( you guessed it) S A T U R N !

    General Motors is now in the top three (according to reports) behind Toyota and Honda in inital quality passing Nissan while VW and BMW fell miserably. The article link can be found below...


    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2001-10-17-gm-quality.htm


    Also, I recently took my car to my local Saturn retailer for a routine 6,000 mile service. Upon receiving my car back, I found a considerable amount of lubrication on the right front fender and a small spot of oil on the hood. I have never had anything like this happen before so of course I was not happy. I immediately made my disappointment about what happened clear to the sales manager - who then contacted the service manager. In a nutshell, Saturn came through for me with an 1. Extensive apology, 2. A wash, wax, and full detail of my car for what happened, 3. A free loaner car, 4. my choice of loaner car, a L 300 midsize sedan- thats what I call the Saturn difference, making things right with the customer.

  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    I'm currently driving a 2000 Passat GLS and it's definately a hoot to drive. The interior materials have definately spoiled me now and the hard reassuring "thunk" of the door gives one a feeling of safety. However, I find myself looking for a small car now for two reasons.... to lower my monthly payment and to rid myself of VW's HORRIBLE dealer service departments... while my car has be quite reliable, the interior rattles and noises are TERRIBLE and 3 dealers now can't seem to fix a rough VERY rough... idle in Drive that causes the whole car to shake BADLY. They don't care about their customers. So, I figured with all of the 0.0% - 4.9% floating around right now, I'd take a look at the current crop of compacts out there and this is what I've found: First, I WANT to buy a saturn, truely. I've been to 3 dealers now and they ALL are wonderfull.... not pushy, REALLY showed off the cars, took me through their service dept., let me talk to folks waiting for their cars to be repaired to ask about thier experiences. It's the closest thing to Lexus I've ever com across, honestly. HOWEVER.... I took a look at an SL2... many of them actually.... today and I was completely blown away.... the interiors are boring, true, but the quality of the materials and the BUILD QUALITY was the worst I've ever seen. In every car... SL, SL1 and SL2 gently pulling the door release inside caused the whole PANEL and handle trim to move....the bezel was loose on every car. The center console in all of the SL2's was so loose that you could move the whole unit with your pinky. Carefully pressing the driver's power window switch caused the whole power button unit to rock in it's housing. The tilt wheel in every car was to hard to move when released and the fore-aft movement of the drivers seat NEVER felt locked in place.

    As for the exterior, the most shocking thing to me was that the lines and lines of SL-cars all next to each other had their driver's doors aligned differently... up top where they met the roof panel.... every one was different. On some, the door stripping overlapped the roof panel, on others it was 1/2" recessed... all different.

    The drive was not bad actually... it was noisey (most small cars are) but the wind noise at the a-pillars was pretty bad at only 40mph. Worse yet was that on the SL2 and SL1 I drove, no matter how high I set the heat, there was a cold blast of air hitting my left foot and arm.... the arm air from the door release area and the let from the area where the door meets the front Fender.

    Now, my experience in an L200 was FAR better, let me tell you... THAT car has improved since the 2000 models for sure.... but I had a kia sephia for a rental once last year and it was light years ahead of the current SL models and I'm very disappointed because I wanted to go american and get that good saturn service and the low interest.

    The Civic? have to get EX to get antilock brakes and while the build quality seems good, it was louder than the Saturn and the seats just as uncomfortable. The protege ES was a great car to drive honestly. But here's the shocker.... the overall BEST vehicle I've tested so far was the 2002 Hyundai elantra (GT in particular). I couldn't believe it... EVERY panel lined up PERFECTLY.... the engine was QUITE powerfull, the AT flawless, the interior looked FAR more expensive than anything else I sat in, it was a hatchback (great for lugging the bikes around) and was the most fun (after the Mazda) to drive. The warrantly is unbeatable... but the only thing holding me back is the lack of low financing and resale down the road. I mean, for 16G REATAL in the hyundai, you get 4-wheel discs, quiet tight interior, yadda yadda yadda

    I'm just so upset because I REALLY wanted a saturn..... the service, the resale, the low interest, the low insurance rates.... seems unbeatable until you actually drive the S-series and that just made me say "I just CANT live with this car for two years!"
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    From what most VW owners seem to think, VW's own s**t doesn't stink. Nice to finally see someone who feels as others do. VW's can't do it all, and the dealers are about as useless as looking for bin laden.

    As to your comments as to the build quality on the S Series- it is nothing we don't already know, and its nothing Saturn doesn't already know... This is the last year of production for the S Series, it's brand new replacement from the ground up is said to hit showrooms by this time next year...

    The S Series does have build quality issues such as loose fitting interior pieces, and door panels with gaps that may seem un even. However, the general reliability of the S Series is still rated average, and in many cases, above average by www.jdpower.com or www.consumerreports.com

    The L Series is definitly worth a look, no matter what you choose, your going to have to give up something.. As far as hyundai goes- while they offer good value- resale is horrible, and many people would still view you as "cheap" if you bought one... Good luck in your search for the "perfect" fit, but I don't think their is one...
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    jmatero: Everything you said about the Saturns you looked at is all true true. I had a 1998 SC2 (leased)and it has been ALL downhill for build quality fit/finish ever since. Ditto for all you said about your impression. Dependable, yes. Fun to drive, definately NOOOOOOO. And regardless of what saturn SAYS, these cars are not all that great @ resale either. The lease SC2 I had, had a MSRP (which as you know IS what you pay)of almost 20K !! After 37K andthe car in MINT condition it only fetched $7000 @ the local auction !!

    Run as fast as you can to that Hyundai dealer and get that Elantra GT. Those cars are the best kept secret in the industry, a raging bargain and value for what they cost. As to resale, well so what if you plan to keep the car for a long time resale is not of much concern anyway. I bought a 2001 Tiburon and everything you said about the Elantra goes double for the "Tibby", especially the "fun to drive factor" and I say this with a Porsche Boxster sitting out in the garage !! For $15/16K these cars CANNOT be beat. My Tiburon now has almost 10K on it (I drive 1K a week)not a single complaint,tight as a drum (love that thud those doors make when you shut'em)and the ONLY car I have puchased recently that was delivered in PERFECT condition (that includes the Porsche too, but that's another costly story)so go for it . you won't be sorry.

    Floridian
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    As everyone has no doubt seen, Hyundai and Kia have had tremendous success with their 100,000 mile warranty program, and I believe it is the only reason why those cars are selling (in most cases).

    Now, Ford is in the game by offering the Focus with a 100,000 mile warranty, and Chrysler announced a 100,000 mile warranty on all its vehicles. A recent news article stated that GM is now considering instituting a 100,000 mile warranty for all vehicles in its Saturn division. I will attempt to post the link soon... This sounds very promising...
  • joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    What good is it if you have to rent an apartment at the dealership.
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    joe3891:fwiw, I,ve personally had over sixty (yes,60) new cars over the past 30 years or so and literally hundreds, yes hundreds,of business vehicles as well. The amount of time ANY of them ,almost every nameplate you can think of,spent in the dealer's shop for warranty work would not allow you to see "Gone With The Wind" all the way thru. LOL. True, little nigglng things did happen to some of them but the chances of getting a "true garage queen" is so slim that the 100K warranties are strictly for marketing hoopla! Buy what you want but don't do it because of some hyped warranty BS !!

    By the way, even as crappy as the build quality of the SC2 was it never spent one second in the shop for anything warranty related plus we do all our own routine maintenance.

    Floridian

    Floridian
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Nothing personal but I don't understand why you take such delight in talking about how crappy that SC2 was.


    Korean cars are not something I would personally drive at this time.


    I don't know how well the Tiberon holds up but..


    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0103.htm

  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    afk x: I take NO delight in the fact that they are so shoddy,just amazement that people that have them are so in love with the things. As I said the car was totally dependable but beyond that GM should be ashamed to market such a shoddy, indifferently assembled car and have the utter gall to charge full MSRP for it to boot. I take no joy in others misfourtune at all.

    Floridian
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    Well, after the posts I have seen there is clearly a double standard here. Obviously, Saturn can only do wrong in the eyes of floridian, and also joe 3891.
    I find it apalling that supposed anti saturn bashers (who claim they don't hate the car/company) can poo-poo anything that most of the normal buying public would consider a plus.
    Also, Since floridian seems to side with Hyundai because of America's supposed "best warranty plan" (not true, IZUZU has 120,000 miles) there is obviously a double standard. I don't see how someone can believe in a warranty offered by a car company who employs underage minors who make peanuts to throw together a korean car, and on the same token dislike a warranty backed by GM, the number one automaker.
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    babywolf: Unless you are running around NAKED and SHOELESS I guess that you'll just have to bear the burden of wearing clothes and shoes made by "underage minors" or worse, children from third world countries that are virtually in slavery. As to this condition being a fact @ Hyundai I challenge you to back this up with verifiable facts. Do you really think that all the parts/subassemblies that GM and others put together down in Mexico and Brazil are by workers making UAW wages and perks and only employ "mature" workers. Get real, I've been in those plants across the Texas and Arizona borders. The living conditions the folks endure just to be close to their jobs is appalling. You will discover that the Korean mfgs have mostly employes in their twenties, highly paid by Korean standards and the working conditions are on a par with most of the Domestic plants here in the USA. GM for instance only has one air conditioned assy plant! Guess which one ? SATURN !! How bout that !

    Yes, IZUZU does have a 120,000K powertrain warranty but as far as I know no roadside assist for 5 years, unlimited mileage like Hyundai. Plus IZUZU I don't believe is making any passenger vehicles for sale here in the US, only trucks and one ? SUV so their sales count is minimal @ best.

    Comments ?? Bring 'em on

    Floridian
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    wolf: In your post #765 you made mention that GM was #3 in quality. They are also in the top three of a somewhat dubious honor of having the three most deadly cars of all. Corvette, Camero and Firebird have the highest death/injury of all cars being made. They only aced out poor old Ford which was fourth with the Mustang !!

    How-about-that !!!

    Floridian
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    You have got to be kidding! Stating minors make Hyundais is a new low. Pretty sad you would have to make up that preposterous notion to make Hyundai sound bad. Pulling at straws are we because Hyundai is finally getting up there in respect and quality? This isn't China we are talking about. South Korea operates in much the same way as the US. They have labor laws and labor unions just like us. You need to be more educated before stating such a blatant lie.
    As for Isuzu, yes, they have 10 year/120K powertrain warranty, but their bumper/bumper coverage is only 3 years/36K and they offer no roadside assistance. In other words, their warranty plan is far below Hyundai's.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Sure Floridan -

    Take on babywolf and his weak arguments. Ignor the offset crash test results....
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    afk x: Since I don't have a Elantra the crash tests for that model is of no interest to me. Now IF they have some data on the Tiburon I'll listen to that but I don't think they crash tested one yet. If they do and it does poorly, well too bad for me I guess. :)

    Floridian
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    I had a saturn... I have other things now, because i have differerent wants & needs, but i think it was a mixed bag, some good some bad:

    1) car only left me stranded once in 85K miles ( bad battery ).
    2) Only needed brake pads once, but warped rotors twice.
    3) Did go through 1 quart of oil every 1,500 miles or so despite my always using mobil 1.
    4) Needed no significant repairs out of warranty.
    5) Reccommended service was relatively cheap, even at the dealer.
    6) Car loosened up, and was pretty noisy on the highway, and interior bits rattled more than they should have.

    All in all, it was great as a point A to point B low cost vehicle, and it has good safety, although gladly i never had to use it. I think it handles pretty well for it's price point. In '96 i think it was at the head of its class. It's not been improved since then, so if i were getting a car in that category now, i'd probably get a golf, but that's not saying the saturn sucks by any means.

    dave
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    I decline to comment further except that you dodged the "real" point I made earlier, a double standard clearly exists here. You love Hyundai(your choice, your right) and seem to hate Saturn, even thou Saturn may have the same warranty plan soon. You praise hyundai, and on the same card, attempt to discredit Saturn for doing the same thing. Should be obvious to anyone.
  • 93saturnsl193saturnsl1 Member Posts: 27
    Who in their right mind would buy a Hyundai? Just watch the cars on the road... how many of the 1st and 2nd generation Hyundais do you see on the road, like Excels and Elantras... next to none (I haven't seen an Excel in years). On the other hand, there are tons of the 1st generation Saturns running around, like mine that's pushing 176,000 miles with zero major repairs.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Lots of people would buy Hyundais. I did and I love it. I would buy another with no concerns over quality and reliability. Check out the Elantra forum and you will see just how happy people are with their new Hyundais. Check out Edmunds own long-term Elantra and see how much they are praising the car. The Hyundai XG350 just beat the Buick Regal, Ford Taurus, Chevy Impala, and Dodge Intrepid in a Car and Driver comparison test, where it was praised for its build quality. How can you argue with those facts? Comparing their current cars with the 1st gen $5k Excel that came out in 1986 is stupid. I wouldn't expect many of those cars to still be around as they were dirt cheap and would be 15 years old. I don't see many Honda's of that vintage around anymore either, and the ones I do see are spewing black or white smoke. Does that make Honda a crappy car? Hardly! Saturns weren't even around 15 years ago, so what's your point? I think someone is stuck in the past, and it's not me. Continue to enjoy your loud and unrefined Saturn. Bashing better built and more refined cars may make you feel better but certainly doesn't make you look too smart.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    You make an excellent point. Comparing a first gen Satty to a first gen Excel is a poor comparison.


    When the Saturn first came out it was top of the class in various areas. When the Excell first came out it was an acknowledge pile of crap. A disposable car to be sure.


    The rest of your post was not as compelling...


    Lets cover the basics - you said..."Check out the Elantra forum and you will see just how happy people are with their new Hyundais"


    How happy are the people with their new Saturns? How happy are any people with any new car they just bought? Totally irrelevant to the statement "who in their right mind would buy a Hynudi". How happy they are is not an indication of making a wise buying decision.


    Your point that Edmunds "praises" their Elantra and that the GX350 was ranked fourth by car and driver does not make the Korean car a wise buy either.


    Long term reliablity is certainly up for debate - and it will be many years before we can determine how reliable the current crop of Korean cars will ultimately be. Personally there are two major reasons why I personally agree that no one in their right mind would purchase an Elantra at this time.


    First - resale value. Unless you plan on keeping this car for a long long time you must consider how horrible the resale value is.


    Second -


    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0103.htm

  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    I couldn't have said it better myself afkx, and just one question, this is the Saturn room right? For a second I thought we were in hyundai land (god forbid)

    In other news, Saturn is hiring 200 more workers in an effort to build more Saturn SUV's, due out in a month or so... Starting under 17k. It has received very positive reveiws, but I didn't expect anything less.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Good try, but you obviously didn't get my point and your philosophy is flawed. I had a problem with 93Saturnsl1 making a blanket statement about all Hyundais based on the Excel, so I pointed to the Elantra forum to show the lack of complaints, even for those who have lived with the car up to 20k. No matter how new a car is or how happy an owner is to have a new car, if its poorly assembled and plagued with problems, owners will complain about them. The fact that Hyundai's have been holding up quite well for the past few years is a good sign that they are built well. Other good signs of the improved build quality are favorable reviews by multiple magazines, including even Consumer Reports. How on earth do you surmise that the Elantra is not a wise buy based on Edmund's long term test? Have you actually read the monthly reports? They are so impressed with the car that they see little need to turn people to Civics anymore. If that high praise does not justify it to be a wise buy, than I don't know what does. Granted, these opinions should not be used solely to make a decision, but they do mean something. The XG350 beating every midsize domestic car at their own game surely speaks highly of its quality and shows that it is a good buy in that class.

    As for your try at safety, why don't we bring the whole picture into view? NHTSA frontal test: Elantra 4 stars driver/ 5 stars passenger; Saturn SL 5 stars/ 5 stars, Saturn L 4 stars/ 5 stars. NHTSA side impact: Elantra 5 stars front/ 4 stars rear; Saturn SL 3 stars/ 2 stars, Saturn L 2 stars/ 4 stars. Clearly, the Elantra holds its own in the NHTSA tests, showing superior side-impact protection. IIHS offset: Elantra's structure rated good, both Saturns are rated acceptable here. The Elantra did well in the offset impact (especially the structural performance and survival space) and would be rated acceptable or good overall if it wasn't for the late deploying airbag. Hyundai isn't the first with airbag sensor problems. Volvo has had this problem as has Infiniti; does that mean these cars should be labeled "no one in their right mind would purchase them"? And what about the fact that the 2nd gen Elantra had the exact same performance in the offset test as the Saturn? I'm sorry but I see some clearly biased opinions here that don't know how to look at all the facts.

    I also take issue with your statement that Saturn was tops in multiple areas when they first came out. Wrong! Saturn was average in all aspects, except service and dent resistance. They were known to be loud, unrefined, sloppily put together cars that had decent acceleration in twin cam trim only, good fuel economy, uncomfortable seats, and a cheap looking interior. Since than, they have become more refined and their engines are finally acceptable noise-wise, but they still have issues with build quality and cheap interior plastics and their refinement levels simply can't keep up with the rest of the class. With these facts in mind, I see no legitimate reason for people thinking Saturn is so much better then Hyundai unless they are just blinded by brand loyalty.

    Oh, and as for resale value, it's not as much of a problem as you think. Sure, Hyundai has lower resale value, but you pay a heck of a lot less upfront so it all evens out. Funny thing is someone tried to prove how much better Toyota was in resale and it ended up backfiring. In a comparison between the Accent, Rio, and Echo, the Accent ended up showing the least amount of money lost after 5 years of ownership, even though it had the lowest resale factor. The Echo's higher price offset its advantage in resale. The same would be true in a comparison between Saturn and the Elantra.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Showing a little bit of bias am I? I do try to be impartial as emotion can get people carried away.

    Since I don't have the time to post a long reply I have only one question to ask you Igntounge.

    If one of the Edmunds editors was killed in a severe frontal impact due to a late deploying airbag how do you think they would feel about the car?

    Or to put it a different way ...

    Do you think it is a wise decision to purchase a car with a known and potential life threatening problem?
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    afk x: Come on, ONE late deploying air bag does NOT damn the whole lot to unacceptable status. As ingtonge18 said, Volvo had a little problem too (glossed over pretty quickly too as I remember)

    If this is the criteria for labeling a particular series vehicle unacceptable then I guess ALL of the mfgs. are in trouble. Just ask my niece who was badly injured in a head-on collision (she was stopped @ a traffic light and not moving)in her brand new Dodge Ram. Air bag did not deploy & she was bounced around pretty badly. The guy that hit her was driving a new Camry and it too failed to deploy the airbag. He lived two days and died from serious head injuries. Just the luck of the draw I guess.

    Floridian
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    The institute tested the Elantra 3 times. 2 time the air bag deployed late.

    Look don't get me wrong. I am glad to see Hundy doing much better than before. Why? It increases competition which in the long run will mean I will be able to purchase a better safer small car for less!

    Would I personally buy an Elantra at this time? No. I would tell any friends and family to avoid them as well. In a year that opinion may change.

    BTW at this point I'm not a big fan of purchasing a new S series car either, but they make a GREAT used car buy.
  • joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    I'm surprised they let you back on.
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    joe3891: You must have me confused with some other "frothing at the mouth Saturn hater" LOL. :)

    Have a nice Thanksgiving, Y'all !!

    Floridian
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Just a simple question for you as well. How do you think anyone felt about their pre-airbag era car when their heads hit the steering wheel? This is not a new problem and it didn't stop people from buying and enjoying those cars. They certainly didn't call them unsafe. Airbags certainly aren't guaranteed to go off in every type of accident or to keep you injury free, as so many people like to think. Lastly, it is not a known problem with all Elantras. NHTSA reported no problems with late airbag deployment, and their tests are designed specifically to rate the restraint system performance of a car. The near perfect scores for the Elantra proves it was designed well there. The IIHS is meant to test the structural performance of a car, again the Elantra did very well in that respect. The airbag issue shows that Hyundai needs to either redesign the sensor parameters for offset impacts or choose a better quality sensor producer. At least give them the chance to fix the problem before claiming they are unsafe based on one test.
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    For anyone that has viewed, or chat in, any hyundai chat room here, how many of you have seen those unfortunate once Hyundai Excel owners keep coming back again and again to complain and dis credit Hyundai for knowingly producing garbadge? I haven't seen any, those people must have faded away.

    So why the heck do we now keep seeing NON Saturn owners coming back to complain in some cases over a car they haven't owned in years? Why is it that in the eyes of Hyundai lovers here that just because Hyundai produced garbadge years ago, doesn't mean they do now, and hyundai produces great cars. But by those same people, Saturn will never improve...

    Again, double standards exist here. Also, our lovely host pat, would very quickly kick someone out in the hyundai room, who was bashing hyundai repeatedly, but allows this type of slander to continue day, after day.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    If you think I have something against Hundi then you are mistaken.


    I simply would not buy one myself nor would I advise people to purchase one at this time.


    They are not proven to be reliable over time. They obviouly have made tremendous strides since day one. In a couple years we will know how well the current generation does. Too early to tell and based upon the past track reccord I wouldn't take the risk nor would I advise others too.


    They are not a safe vehicle at this time. Late airbag deployment is not such a simple matter as hitting your head on the steering wheel! Thats why the insurance institutes off set test is a much better measure of real world crashes. I agree that the structure of the Korean car is good. The tests prove that. That doesn't make them safe - because if the passengers movements are not controlled you can and often will have a serious injury due to the backlash. Your head hitting the steering wheel isn't going to be a big problem. Its designed to absorb energy. Its when your head snaps back and smacks the B pillar that you have a problem. The seat also came loose in one of the offset tests. This is NOT accpetable and one reason why the Hundi gets the worst (poor) rating.


    Look if you want to tell your friends to go buy a Hundi than great! I'm just not going to tell MY friends and family that.


    By the way - before you go and reccomend people to buy a Hundi go and check this out.


    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm


    Notice how poorly the Hundi does across the board. In a couple of years - this could all change. I hope it does.

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Host Pat is indeed wondering why this discussion has gotten so focused on Hyundais - and it does seem like it's time to remember what the subject of this topic is.

    A couple other options exist for those wanting to continue in this vein - we have a discussion focused on the Hyundai Elantra (as well as other Hyundai models), and anyone who would like to do so is welcome to start up a comparison topic between any vehicles over on our Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans Board.

    So let's get back to the S-Series Saturns, okay?

    Thanks.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    I will say this: My point in being here is not to debate the safety of one particular car. I'm here because certain people continue to post false facts and I feel I should correct them so the uninformed can be rightfully informed. Once these certain people realize they did not read the info correctly, I will be satisfied. I would be just as quick to protect Saturn or any other make from false accusations. And I'm not some Hyundai lover either. I currently own a Hyundai, Nissan, VW, and Mitsubishi. I have also owned a Honda and a Mazda. As you can see, I'm not one that is blinded by brand loyalty. I choose what car I like, no matter who makes it. I don't despise Saturn either as I was considering the L200 sedan not too long ago.

    Folks, unlike what afk_x would have you believe, hitting your head on the steering wheel can cause some serious injuries. Forces on the head from hitting the steering wheel hard through the late deploying airbag is the main reason why the IIHS gave the Elantra a poor rating. Not because of whiplash. This same injury would have occured on any car without an airbag, as shown by european crash tests of cars in which airbags are still optional. And yet, none of these cars are considered a deathtrap on wheels and people certainly weren't told not to buy them. I have to ask you, afk_x, what was the last car you owned without airbags? Did you feel you were driving a deathtrap? Probably not, since you bought the car. So, I find it odd you would claim people who buy cars with these safety issues are basically stupid, because wouldn't that have made you stupid for buying a car back than with the same issues? But wait, maybe safety wasn't your only consideration for buying the car! Safety should be an important consideration but it should not be used as the only reason to buy a car. Lastly, the fact that 3 different tests produced 3 different results should prove how relatively unreliable these tests are as far as measurements are concerned. Every accident is different, and as such, the IIHS's tests should not be used as a one-all decision to deem any car unsafe. Again, this has nothing to do with Hyundai. I'm only using it as an example since it was brought into this. I could use many other examples if need be.
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    Im not sure, but you may have thought that my post was directed at you, it wasn't because I know you have owned a Saturn, and offer valuable input consistently. I myself am on my second Saturn, and will probably buy a third.

    I was just pointing out the obvious again, and would like to get back to talking about Saturn's, preferably Saturn strenths, not hyundai. After all, this isn't a hyundai chat room. As pat pointed out, there is a room for those to discuss hyundai, it should be used.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    My wife just bought a 93 SL 1 with 98k miles from a friend at work for our son who is learning to drive. She had saved all the reciepts and the car seems to have held up pretty well over its life. It had the battery and alternator replaced twice (at the same time) Which leads me to think the previous owner was taken advantage of. Recently, according to the records, the check engine light came on and on the first visit to Saturn, two solenoids were replaced (whatever they are) and when it came on again a week later the EGR valve was replaced. This was a month ago...no problem since then. I looked the car over pretty carefully before buying it. I like the axle boots...they are a hard plastic unlike the soft rubber found on previous FWD cars Ive owned...which had to be replaced at like 70k miles for $400. The ones on the Saturn were in great shape! I cant find any mention of a coolant change anywhere in the receipts, but it looks good and was tested a year ago. Did the Saturn come with extended life coolant? Any comments, TIA!
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    For a while I thought you were a intelligent helpful poster here.

    Which makes me wonder why you would say this..

    "Lastly, the fact that 3 different tests produced 3 different results should prove how relatively unreliable these tests are as far as measurements are concerned"

    Just go away if you are going to say such things...
  • babywolfbabywolf Member Posts: 20
    Don't qoute me, but I believe the first generation Saturn's (91-95) used conventional antifreeze/coolant. Im not sure when Saturn started using dexcool, but contacting a Saturn retailer, or calling 1 800 554 6000 (Saturn Customer Assistance Center) would be a good start.
    How much did you get the SL1 for> ? I am thinking of buying a first generation Saturn as an "around town" car in addition to my 2001 SL1. I have my eye on a 1994 SW2 Wagon for 1000.00 with 150k, may go for it...
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