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I owned a GT-S for 10 and a half years. Fast fun car.
Kill the stupid Matrix and Echo, give us a real Corolla HB with an sporty version like the FX16, give us a GT-S coupe, an XLE sedan with available NAV, Head Curtains, bigger engine and tires, and switch the S model to an SE, along the lines of the Camry's SE trim level.
Toyota has its head in the sand, and if it doesnt start producing solid performing, interesting, APPEALING products, instead of just solid performing products, its going to end up like Nissan, circa 1996.
~alpha
~alpha
I think who bashes other cars just has a different taste when it comes to cars.
An labelling a car stupid is not the brightest idea either. Any more of those intelligent comments you want to share?
~alpha
PS- just as people are allowed to make any vehicle purchase their hearts desire, so am i allowed to call a vehicle stupid.
Oh, and by the way, I DO recognize that celica is overpriced in this market, and in its position relative to the "performance" available from regular corollas. They should either option it up for base models or lower the price across the board by 10-15%.
I still like this corolla XLE idea though - a fully loaded model, only option is NAV, and it has to have a little more power than the other corollas. Then it could pull a premium price, like as much as bare-bones camry.
They should make the 'S' into an 'SE' anyway - more than just an appearance package, it should have fatter anti-roll bars and bigger tires, also tighter suspension.
BTW instruments in the center of the dash make things easier for the manufacturer in exporting to countries where the steering wheel is on the other side, because the instruments do not have to be moved.
And I would lay dollars to donuts Scion will ultimately fail, although I think the cars are kind of unique and funky, and I wish they would stick around. If they were serious about differentiating Scion from the rest of the Toyotas, they would have invested in separate dealerships.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Car and Driver June 2000 on the ECHO
Verdict: "Something new from Toyota- a big mistake."
Nippononly- I agree with nearly everything you say, except that "the FX-16/GT-S coupe model is already available" I'll concede that a GTS Corolla would be redundant, but the FX would not be a competitor for the Celica, and it wasnt in the eighties either. I would like it as hatchback in the genre of the Focus ZX3/Civic Si, not a FASTBACK like the Celica, Tiburon, Eclipse, etc.
canc- explain just a little big how the ECHO is more practical (or roomy??) than the Corolla?
~alpha
However, for real comfort one needs to get the Sienna.
But here is a comparison of a moderately equipped ECHO to a Corolla with the same features:
Toyota ECHO 4door Sedan + Upgrade pkg 2, ABS, Auto, All Weather Guard, Floormats, 15 inch. wheels : $15,032.
Toyota Corolla CE Sedan + Auto, ABS, All Weather Guard, Floormats: $15,412.
Add in the Corolla's newer design, better crash test ratings, better mix of power and economy, better materials, and similar interior room- why does Toyota have the ECHO, especially if the median age of this so-called "youth" car is indeed in the mid 40s (as has been rumored)?
~alpha
Obviously if you get the appearance packages plus the CD, cruise, power accoutrements, etc the price balloons out of control, and considering the price of a corolla CE, which has many of these things standard, I don't know why anyone would buy a loaded echo...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now that Civic SI has come back as a hatchback, it has been the most ripping sales failure of any Honda model in a long time.
So it might be a long time before Toyota brings back a hatchback...although the Scion xA is going to be kind of like that, with the echo powertrain, right? Maybe they could bring out a more powerful version if it makes it in sales.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
your point is well taken, and I agree - Toyota doesn't control driving conditions. That said, I feel that this is excessive wear (i.e. poor paint) for routine use on routine roads.
A hatchback and a coupe would be wonderful. I don't think either necessarily has to be super sporty, I just think they need something to compete head-to-head with the Civic coupe (which seems enormously popular, particularly with young women, here in Chicago). Of course, the option of an upgraded sport model (a la Civic Si) and a fully loaded model (like the EX) would be wise. The hatchback should be a basic, stripped down price leader, with a full array of options (power stuff, engine upgrades) available.
Please see MSG 380 in Corolla/Matrix problems/solutions area. Thanks for all your help - hopefully you won't have to have both your front and rear windshields replaced like I've had to!!
Although our Corolla wagon is nice and reliable, it is not as comfortable for long road trips as was the 1999 Tracker and now the 2001 Blazer or 1993 Ford F-150 Extended Cab LWB pickup.
~alpha
Regarding the sedan vs. coupe, I just basically said Toyota doesn't need another sedan trim level, but they should offer an upgraded engine and wider availability of things like ABS, sunroof and leather on the LE and S models. Since they already have three trim levels (base CE, 'luxury' LE and 'sporty' S), I think offering another one just to have a bigger engine is a bit wasteful and redundant. As for the coupe, Toyota is losing a lot of sales to Honda because they don't have anything remotely competitive to the Civic coupe. A two-door basic hatch would be nice, too, but I'm not holding my breath, especially since an Echo hatch is supposedly coming out (though I don't know if it will be offered in the U.S.).
The wagon corolla I think would be a nice addition. Not as freaky as the matrix, but appears to have the same amount of useful space.
for me, gimme the wagon with a stick, and I'll put on the TRD supercharger. Now i've got a 175hp supercharged Corolla wagon that is a Jetta killer.
My number one complaint - the driver's seat. The seat bottom cushion is too short, with woefully inadequate thigh support. When you raise the seat height, you lose what little thigh support there was before. Bad seats - I am surprised that others have not found this to be a problem. Maybe you get used to it.
I also would like for the side mirrors to fold.
If Toyota would fix these things, they would probably have found a buyer here. And no, it does not handle as well as a Protege, but it is good enough for most of the driving I do.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If I get a new Corolla, I would have to initially drive it for a long distance on highway. Would this be a big concern? Thanks for your information.
for first 1000 miles: do not drive over 55mph; run engine betw. 2000 and 4000 revs. ; avoid full throttle starts; avoid hard stops first 200 miles; do not drive slowly in high gear (manual trans.); do not drive "for a long time in a single speed, either fast or slow"; do not tow trailer first 500 miles.
Personally, I am really curious to see if the Corolla will get side curtains as an option with this model run- I dont see the point of adding side airbags to a car if those airbags dont offer head protection. Hell, though it isnt a curtain setup, even the Hyundai Accent now even offers side airbags with head protection for the front passengers- standard!
~alpha
I don't drive it daily like my wife, but use it for running errands on the weekends. I agree with others with the comments about the seats and driving position, but I'm getting used to it. I would also like to mention that the steering is too light - I wonder if there is anything that can be done about this? Otherwise, what a lot of car for the money.
Can anyone shed some advice about the quality of these cars?
Thanks!
I finally convinced her to take it in and get it checked before the powertrain warranty expired. After checking it once, adjusting the drive belts, and checking it again, the dealer said one or two of the pistons are bad, and the engine needs rebuilt. It will take a week, but Toyota does give a free loaner car for powertrain repairs. The problem there is it is a 2003 Camry LE, and now she wants to buy one of those.
Her 1990 Corolla went 140,000 miles before being totaled, so she paid the extra money to get a Corolla again over other vehicles. However, I'm not convinced Toyotas are built like they used to be 10 years ago. I do not have any complaints about the dealer, and the free loaner car is a nice touch.
akangl- Congratulations!!
~alpha
My parents bought an 03 Corolla (Lunar Mist, very nice color) in January and they are very happy with it.