Audi A6

markcincinnati · February 2003

Here is the good news, if this is a 2003 A6 4.2, I believe it has the "sport suspension" equivalent of a couple years ago. The differences are real and I think you would have enjoyed the sport suspension, but unless you plan to "carve" up and down the twisties -- the bigger wheels and tires will get you part of the way there.

I enjoyed my first 4.2 (2000) and did not feel that it was "my father's" caddy -- besides, if you feel you need more control, you can replace the springs and anti-sway bars for not too much money.

I did this in an A8 and it made a nice diff to the handling and didn't kill the ride. I'll bet Joe Hoppen could get you an S6 suspension for your new A6 4.2 if you really wanted it.

Enjoy!

timcar · February 2003

Mark, I thought only the '03 2.7T had the sport suspension standard, and that it was still an option on 4.2. No?

markcincinnati · February 2003

There is a sport package option for the 2003 A6 4.2, but "supposedly" the 2003 A6 4.2 has a "sportier" suspension -- but not as sporty as the "full blown" sport package has (springs, sway-bars, struts(?), seats, wheels/tires comprise the Audi factory sport option for a 4.2 A6).

An Audi aftermarket spring set and sway bar set is available from several vendors, some, like Joe Hoppen claim to sell the S6 suspension -- which can be applied to the 4.2 (and apparently ONLY the 4.2 due to it's different bits from the firewall forward).

An A6 4.2 is, then, already a "semi-sport" -- but, Tim, you are technically correct.

timcar · February 2003

Thanks for the clarification, Mark. I wasn't aware that the base suspension had also been upgraded, but I'm not surprised. Even though I'm very fond of my non-sport '01 2.7T, I've always had 4.2 envy. Particularly of those with the sport suspension. On looks alone, it's a sure winner. There was a fellow in my area with a Ming Blue, sport suspension, 4.2 with a vanilla/royal interior. What a gorgeous looking car! IMHO, the lower ride height makes a good-looking car look fabulous, especially on the 4.2 with larger flares and slightly longer nose.

Saw a silver 2.7T with pipes out the back last night. Obviously and '02 or '03. It had significantly lowered ride height. Didn't see the wheels, and wondered if it was an '02 or '03. Even the 2.7T looks much better with lowered ride height. Also wondered if it was an after-market mod, because it was pretty low. Looked great though.

And that's just about looks. The handling improvement is easily worth it also. If I weren't so cheap, I'd think about an after-market sport suspension for my lease also. But being that I am, I'll content myself with a tire upgrade when it comes time to replace them.

markcincinnati · February 2003

You are far enough along in the "aging" of this car that it might just be worth your while to wait until you are in the market for a replacement for your 2.7T -- heard on the street, the 2.7T has perhaps only one more model year left in it.

I love my 2.7T engine -- and now that I've applied the 402 mod to my allroad and have the 245 wide tires, I'm a happy camper.

I've got 6K miles on the thing now -- and frankly, I am less tempted now to chip it -- it seems every bit as quick as my "old" 4.2 and it is a lot more fun with 6spds!

And the allroad -- mine has the full paint treatment -- in burgundy pearl with the brushed aluminum bulges (like the A6 4.2 and flared fenders) looks very agressive too.

The 2.7T engine is so quick -- it kinda makes my old 4.2 seem almost lazy. But, nothing sounds like that 4.2 -- now THAT I do miss.

Don't take me wrong, a 4.2 with the 6spd tip or manual would probably be THE combo to have.

Love the one your with (the car that is). . .

cowgyrl13 · February 2003

I contacted Audi AG a few months back about the possibilities of getting a TDI A6 here in the states. They said there were no such plans, but VW told me the same thing about the Passat, and I hear that a Passat TDI is coming. I'm ok getting a Passat TDI, but an A6 TDI... well... that'd would be too sweet.

markcincinnati · February 2003

It had more torque than the 3.0 engine (stump pulling comes to mind). And, at 180HP it seemed plenty willing to go fast.

I also got to ride in it with Walter Rohlr on a closed ice-covered track in the mountains of Austria. You would never have known the thing was a TDI -- it was quiet, quick and -- well -- "normal."

I'm sure it would be a hit -- especially with its miserly ways, compared to the gas version -- here in the US!

I've also heard that there is a V10 TDI engine too avail in an A8 and a VW Toureg (in Europe, of course).

timcar · February 2003

Motoring press has rumored Mark's V10 TDI MIGHT be an option for the new A8. Nothing on TDI in A6. Unless gas goes up to $5 a gallon, my guess is you won't see the 2.5 TDI in the A6.

kirby2010 · February 2003

I believe the 2.5 TDI is the standard A6 engine in Germany's domestic market. Of course the price of fuel is very high there. I think the diesel sold there is a different grade than the diesel that sold here.

markcincinnati · February 2003

I saw and actually rented several Audi's in Germany.

They put such tiny engines in them -- even in A6's it is amazing. The 2.5TDI is, in some of the Audi's the TOP of the line engine. In the A4 in Germany the top of the range is the 3.0 and the 2.5TDI, arguably, is only a half step below. I rented an A4 with either a 1.4 or 1.6 non turbo engine (gas) and drove it up and down the autobahn at over 160kph for hours -- with relative ease (but with not much quickness).

The A6's I saw in Germany were often 1.8T equipped and I also saw a 2.8 engined A8 (that must have been a real bowser).

I saw several A6 avants with 2.5TDI on their backsides, too. Also saw some very "high zoot" Audis (mainly avants) that were certainly high performance (RS4 for example).

So, I think the 2.5TDI engine is a option that is generally on the higher range versions of Audis.

Oh yea, my rental A4, had power FRONT windows and crank rears.

What gets imported here into USA-land appear to be, at whatever engine output, much higher content cars -- pretty close to the top of the range.

Funny, too -- most of the Audis I saw in Germany did NOT have sunroofs -- try finding one in the US without one. They charge a lot more for a sunroof in Germany (in Euros) than we pay here as part of the "premium" package, for example.

kawasaki2 · February 2003

I've been looking for some time for a used A6 and currently have my eyes on a 2000 Silver 2.8 w/ 35,000 miles. This is a "Certified" vehicle from an Audi dealer in Torrance, CA.

Looking at various online forums, it appears as though people either love the cars or want to burn them and collect the insurance money to ease the pain of ownership. I worked at Audi dealerships in the early 80s and remember the days of the 5000 and the never-ending cycle of replacing window regulators and brake master cylinders...

However, I hear things are largely much better these days. None-the-less, I would love to hear from owners of similar cars as far as their ownership experiences:

If it's been great, I would like to know. Other questions:
1. Common failures you have had or heard about
2. Can it run on regular fuel without problem
3. Typical oil consumption: I'm from the oil/filter every 3,000 miles school (and have a Honda with 256,000 miles to prove it) and am a little alarmed at Audi's recommended 7,500 change interval. My Honda still does not use oil in 3,000 miles before I change it. What should I expect?
4. Does anyone know why some used cars make the Audi "Certified" program and some do not? What is the rejection criteria?

Those are the major question areas. I love the style and comfort of this car but want to learn more before I plunge in.

Please educate me before I do something that I may regret!

markcincinnati · March 2003

If you go by the metric of term and monthly payments, according to my dealer Norhtland Audi, in Cincinnati, it is less money per month (36 - 39 month term) to lease a brand new audi a6 3.0 than it is to buy or lease a used one.

My dealer is "so distressed" that his used car sales have plummeted, that he is not acquiring any new used cars unless they are being traded in. He no longer takes the off lease cars and keeps them, that is.

My personal salesperson says, "unless you are paying 100% cash, acquiring a used one -- in today's market -- is both a false economy and an invitation for maintenance and repair bills that you just won't have with a brand new one.

At 35,000 miles on a 2000 -- how are the tires, or better, when and at what cost will they need to be replaced. The Audi advantage expires at 50K and even though you will be protected from catastrophic expense with the Audi assured deal (which IS a good thing) over a 30 - 39 month "ownership" you will be paying less out of pocket.

Furthermore: 3.0 engine vs 2.8, ESP and ABS +brake assist vs ABS alone, side curtain airbags, vs no side curtains; many "new and improved" features and functions -- much better and responsive engine, better economy and on and on and on. Even the tiptronic is better in the 03.

I cannot afford a 2000 audi when faced with a 2003 for arguably less money.

JBaumgart · March 2003

Mark, I have no doubt that the dealer told you that new is cheaper than used, but on the face of it this makes no sense. If that were the case then there would be no market whatsoever for late model, used Audi's - no one would EVER buy a used one when they could save and buy new. It would also mean that Audi's do not depreciate which we all know is not the case.

The price for used models is purely driven by supply and demand, and I would have no doubt that kawasaki2 could save quite a bit by buying a 2000 2.8 with 35,000 miles. That doesn't necessarily mean that this is the better buy, factoring in the improvements made to the car, some of which you list, since the 2000 model year. But if the price difference is wide enough, it might make sense to buy the certified used model, as the looks are pretty much the same. In fact I bet most casual observers would never notice the difference. He could drive it for a year or two with full warranty protection, and not take the big depreciation hit that the original owner undoubtedly took.

Just another opinion...

markcincinnati · March 2003

A used Audi -- say a 2001 -- is less money than a new one. I did not claim otherwise.

My Porsche/Audi dealer leases over 80% of the cars he sells, the remaining ones are purchase in cash or financed.

Using the metric of "cost per month" -- the deal is on the 2003 NOT on the 2001.

Your points are all valid and I cannot contradict them.

Today, March 2003 -- a used is more money that's all.

markcincinnati · March 2003

If a used MY 2000 is 50% of a new one which would be MSRP'd @ $42,000, or $21,000 and it is possible to find 0% financing for a used car for 36 months, the payments to own this car would be $583/mo.

The current "deals" on A6's "nicely equipped" (MSRP as noted above) w/$0.00 down is (in Ohio where the tax is part of the total monthly payment) $619/mo.

At the end of the 36 months if you buy, you theoretically have the car and no more payments and the car may be worth $8 or $9K.

At the end of the 36 months if you lease, you have no car, no asset, nothing.

During the lease, I submit -- (and this is where the dealer is finding his customers are opting NOT for used cars that are 50% off the price of a new car, but for the new cars) the costs due to wear and tear, the 100% Audi Advantage (which is NOT the same as Audi Certified) and the fact that EVERYTHING in the new car, was NEW -- that the new car cost less to "use" for the 36 months than the used car.

Many people, from the dealer's perspective again, do not keep cars more than "about" 3 years.

Many people like the "advantages of the new car."

Many people have found that a 6 year old car has lost so much value and the expense of maintenance so high beyond a certain point (warranty or no) makes them unattractive.

My agreement with these notions ebbs and flows. The monthly number argument, today, basically says "unless you are paying cash or can get a (late model) used car for 0% interest, the new car will have a lower payment."

This today situation is almost unique in our economic and financial history. New cars are flying off the lots due to "rate" deals that are not offered on used cars.

For the forseeable future (a few more months?) unless you are in a cash situation, the new lease makes monthly payment sense.

JBaumgart · March 2003

Mark, I see your point about the benefits of leasing a new Audi, particularly if the dealers are offering subsidized deals to get them off of their lots. Right now we very well may be in a temporary period where leasing a new model makes a lot of sense, assuming of course that you can afford the monthly payments.

I don't know how accurate your numbers are, but assuming that they are indeed reflective of what the "real world" deals and values are today, it's still cheaper - if cost alone is being considered - to buy the used one. As you note, you own the used one outright after making the 36 payments, and at that point it's worth $8,000 - $9,000. Factoring in the difference (savings) in the monthly payments, you are more than $10,000 ahead after the three years are up. Again, the numbers could well be different, but assuming your figures are "real world" values, you are essentially paying $22,284 ($619 x 36) to drive the new one for 3 years vs about $12,000 to drive the used one for 3 years ($21,000 less the $9,000 remaining value). This is almost a 50% savings, not an insignificant amount for a "person on a budget" who still wants to drive a nice, late model German sedan.

I guess the most important thing to do if you are in this situation (deciding whether to lease a new one or buy used) is to do your homework and run the exact numbers carefully each time. You may find that all things considered, including the likely benefits of a new car warranty, added safety features, new car smell, etc leasing the new one is worth the extra cost. But temporary great leasing deals notwithstanding, at the end of the day the market will always guarantee an appropriate discount for buying used, because the market is the sum of hundreds of buying/leasing decisions that are made each week. And the more Audi and its dealers "flood" the market with subsidized new car lease deals, the more downward pressure is exerted on the prices of used models - creating "bargains" that many people on a budget can't resist.

markcincinnati · March 2003

You will not be able to finance a used car at 0% interest, so the out of pocket cost will actually be higher. Cash 100% up front, somewhat different, but I guess one could argue alternate uses for the cash.

$8 or 9K -- according to my dealer is "possible" but only if the car after 36 months is "very clean," does not need work or tires, etc -- possible but generally not seen that way. So real "trade in value" probably 4 figures less.

All your points are true, however.

I just cannot make the USED CAR buy thing work with NEW CAR incentives (plus the other already stated advantages) that are out there today and likely to be there for months to come.

On a cash out of pocket basis, however, the used car will require more money out of pocket than the used one. Now it is true that there should be some residual value in 2006 on the 2000 or 2001 car, but every day that passes it decriments and it is NOT the same as cash.

Lease or rent depreciating assests and buy appreciating assets -- that is what my money guys (not my car guys) tell me.

Cars are tools of the trade for me and I like having late model ones. The compelling reasons to lease NOW and during the Carter years the compelling reasons THEN to "buy in today's dollars and pay back in tomorrow's dollars" -- underscore this upsidedown situation.

I still advocate doing what YOU feel comfortable doing.

Thus far -- for me -- its lease a new one every 24 to 36 months and live with increased peace of mind.

To each his own.

cdnpinhead · March 2003

write car expenses off against a business look at vehicles differently than mere mortals.

The issue becomes cash flow -- what has to be paid out each month to drive X? Hey, it's a business expense, so comes off the bottom line -- for car fans, this is money very well spent.

In the other world (I'd hate to say real, because there are so many in that situation), your vehicle costs you what you pay for it, minus what you are able to get when you sell it, minus maintainence (I'm stunned that Mark didn't hold forth on this, this time), minus opportunity cost of the money tied up, etc.

We plebeians who work for salary (or worse yet, wages) need not apply.

px260 · March 2003

To me, the forever debt of leasing cars one after another does not make economical sense. Just buy a car, maintain it, and keep it forever is the way to go. I envy those who drive a 80's Toyota with 250k miles on the motor. The word "VALUE" just screams out at you. Think of the opportunity cost they have saved over the years.

markcincinnati · March 2003

Your convictions, too, have much merit. In my case, I have NOT desired a 250K auto, which does not make either one of us "correct."

The costs, the RATIONALIZED costs, I admit, have made such a practice (keeping the car beyond 50,000 miles) both emotionally and financially unaffordable in my circumstances.

As I age, I do find myself becoming somewhat more attached to cars than I ever thought possible.

And, most of us who drive Audis, truth be told, put value pretty far down on their lists (despite our protestations to the contrary).

My Honda driving friends think we European and American car drivers are nuts. We're still friends though.

My BMW driving friends think Audis are "weenies cars" (I am in IT) and show them little respect and much disdain. We're still friends, too.

Cars are -- even for us left brained folk -- not rational.

Our attempts to rationalize and legitimize what we do with them (including funding them) are neither rational nor legitimate if attempted to be broadly applied.

This is an Audi lovers board (mostly) and it seems to be a new Audi lovers board. But, if you have an Audi with 250,000 miles on it -- as far as I'm concerned -- you're still welcome here anytime.

px260 · March 2003

I don't really care if one drives a certain make vs. another. If one prefers a FORD, so be it, who cares? If one can afford a Royce, fine. It is your choice. I don't quite understand why people stereotype cars and their drivers. I do believe a lot of these value minded persons are the ones with a bigger bank account.

mariobgoode · March 2003

I'm beginning to see the wisdom of Mark's practice. I can also deduct my lease payments from my gross income, so a lease is something that looks attractive to me. My accountant agrees with me on this point. I have had the sad experience of keeping an old Audi for 10 years, and the uncertainties of repair and high cost of maintenance after the Audi Advantage freebies eventually got to me. I'm therefore leaning strongly towards leasing my next Audi. I've seen the light (T-I-C).

markcincinnati · March 2003

I tried to talk him into an Audi quattro. He got a Passat 4motion "wagon" (I don't think they call them avants).

He did the 0 money down, 36 months thing and says a predicable cost is "better" than taking the chance on the viscissitudes of running without a warranty.

No one, apparently, likes uncertainty. And, I keep tellin' y'all "Audis are breathtakingly expensive to repair when the money is yours" (as opposed to being baked in to the monthly lease payment as it is with new fully Audi Advantaged cars every 24 to 48 months or 50,000 miles whichever comes first.)

My receptionist "bought" a used car -- an oldsmobile something or other. She put $1000 down and makes payments that exceed the cost of leasing a new Jetta which could have been $0 down (the payment statement assumes the payment differential due to the cap cost reduction on the used car -- that is the payments on the Jetta would have been $249 and for the Olds they were factored to be about $255 a month -- but for a different term, see below.)

The first thing to go was the Power Steering -- she got that fixed (15% discount). Next the passenger side power window. She had the window raised and just keeps it up, didn't fix it. Next to go was the A/C. Since the driver's side window works she keeps it open to try to stay cool.

Then she needed a tire, which really required 2.

She was, financially speaking, paying [more than] the price of driving a very nice Jetta GL (or Honda or deal du jour) -- uh, except she had no A/C two old tires and god knows what next that would need fixing.

Plus, because she was buying the used Olds, her payments were virtually the same per month as the new Jetta would have been. Except the Jetta would have been 39 months and the Olds was 60 months.

She hates that car and really has no recourse.

If this anecdote was 1 of a total of 1, it would not bear repeating. The fact that this story is more of the rule rather than the exception makes the entire prospect of keeping my car out of warranty a rather scary thing to contemplate.

But this is ONLY one story, mine, in the naked city.

jdbtensai · March 2003

there is a nice a6 2.7t at the beverly hills audi. you might want to look at that too.

sacojimd · March 2003

Is there a 98 A6 in my future?

I drove one yesterday... it drove great... But I have some questions....

I'll be having a mechanic look it over, but(1) the cruise control didn't seem to work, and (2) when I put the headlights on there was a "popping" sound near the light switch. Common/easily remedied? Or a deal killer?

Also it needs 4 new tires which is no biggie in the grand scheme... but if the answers to the above are favorable, I'd be interested in what the preferred tires are. (It has ContiSport (?) on it now.)

It's the A6 or a 96 Mercedes C220.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

marleybarr · March 2003

Anyone know why Audi doesn't install daytime driving lights on any of their US spec cars?

Maybe Audi doesn't feel it is a necessary safety idea?

markcincinnati · March 2003

I love Audis, love my Audis, found each one an improvment over the last.

I have no reason to believe that a 98 A6 is an invitation for trouble.

But -- Audis (and this applies to the Mercedes too, and indeed every European car) are very expensive to maintain and repair when the money comes out of your own pocket.

Audi Assured would be more than nice -- it would be prudent.

timcar · March 2003

I have no specific information concerning the issue of the popping sound when you turn on the lights. '98 was the first year of production for the current C5 platform and possibly the most problematic. Since the electronics on this car are complex, I'd probably pass unless I knew for certain that this popping sound couldn't possibly indicate a serious problem. As Mark suggested, I'd preferably want a decent warranty before buying this car. My first car was a beat-up '67 Volvo 144. I must have spent 8 times more getting the car fixed during the three years I owned it than I had buying it.

Even given all this, I think the '98 A6 is a MUCH nicer car than a '96 C220. Had a '98 A6 as a dealer loaner recently and it was still tight and drove very well without any apparent problems. So there are evidently some decent examples in the marketplace.

markcincinnati · March 2003

Tim said, "My first car was a beat-up '67 Volvo 144. I must have spent 8 times more getting the car fixed during the three years I owned it than I had buying it."

So many of the people that "buy" used cars [Audis and others] will rail on and on about how much money they spent on their used cars.

Now I don't know how much 8 times as much is -- but suffice it to say, that it is stories like these coupled with the "uncertain" opportunity cost of a used vehicle that keeps bringing me back to the "logic" of a permanent lease and always having a young car.

If our friend buys this used '98 A6 and it costs 8 times what he buys it for to keep it running, he will probably not be an Audi owner for long, let alone forever.

Again, go for the new or the Audi assured -- after all we buy "insrance" not because we plan to have a claim, but IN CASE we have a claim.

px260 · March 2003

Audi's are nice, I love the looks of them, but will never have the nerve to own one. I think these cars are for leasing, as Mark rightfully suggested. To own an used Audi is like asking for troubles (unless you are a mechanic and have all the right tools). If you have the means to lease, go for it, if not, go for something that you know will start every time you turn that key and will never keep you stranded on the side of the road - not a very good feeling and situation for most folks.

markcincinnati · March 2003

I have the means to lease a new one, I cannot afford a used one, however. So if you have the means to buy a used one, it must be for "love" because, broadly speaking (which is not the same as literally speaking) if you can make the payments + repairs and maint on a used one, you will have exceeded the cost of leasing a new one!

ctorrey2 · March 2003

It takes a rich man to buy one and a richer man to maintain it.

robca1 · March 2003

1999 A6 Quattro 2.8, 52,000 miles, with a 7 yr/100K miles transferrable warranty for $18K. Thanks for the advice.

northhou · March 2003

I drive 20K to 24K miles per year so leasing is not an option for me. By the time you add the extra mileage cost to the lease...might as well buy it. I purchased a 2000 2.7T Certified with 38.9K miles on it. Got an incredible deal, 3.9% financing through Audi and still have original factory warranty left for a couple of months..then the Audi Assured kicks in. I have no worries about this car, it is in impeccable shape, has been properly maintained, and looks and drives new. The only type of used car I'd buy, especially German, is a certified car. Have the dealership pull the service records, that will easily show if the proper maintainence has been perfomed and give the service history of the car. My 2 cents worth.

dpedersen1 · March 2003

Quick question I have been wondering about. Any quick rules of thumb about how much the lease typically goes up if you go from 10K to 12K to 15K miles on the lease? On mine it is 10K and I pay $0.25/mile over. I considered moving to 12K but never did it. Now I am trying to figure out where the break even might be when the $/mile exceeds the increase in the lease payment.

dtwleungnyc · March 2003

When I was working on the lease for my current A6, I asked the price for both 12k/yr and 15k/year. The monthly difference was roughly $30. Which works out to roughly 16 cents per mile? Couple factors will determine whether its cheaper to get the extra miles put into the lease or pay the extra miles in the end. The money factor and the residual value.

mulligan2 · March 2003

Which would be better as a daily driver?

kwarnold · March 2003

I just started following this discussion since I took delivery of my 2003 A6Q 3.0 two weeks ago. I thought I would jump in with my 2 cents on the leasing-vs-buying discussion.

I have owned several Audis (4000, Cabriolet and now the A6) as well as several Mercedes-Benz cars and other European cars. I wholeheartedly agree with the comments on getting a warranty with your used car - or just buy a new one.

Speaking from personal experience, I will NEVER buy a used European car without some sort of factory warranty. My 96 E320 I just sold had 4-years of MBZ "Starmark" warranty that really paid off for me. If I had not had that warranty I would have shelled out several thousand dollars for repairs. When I had my Audi 4000 back in 1987 (it was a 1985 model - 2 years old at the time) I was paying on average of $200 additional per month for repairs. (Yes, I am sure quality and reliability are MUCH better today than they were back then.)

One last thing on the leasing aspect: I was able to get a new-off-the-truck A6Q loaded (17" wheel option, zenons, all the extras you would expect) on this $399/month lease deal Audi is running. (At least my dealer is running it.) Yes, it required some money down, but I got a new-no-miles A6 on a 4-year lease that beats most other deals I have seen.

And I get the assurance of Audi standing behind it for 4 years while I have it.

So like Mark mentioned in his earlier posts, it probably is cheaper to buy new than used. In my case I am convinced of it!

I am enjoying the discussion and look forward to being a part of it!

Keith

kwarnold · March 2003

Mulligan:

I just went through this exact same exercise when I leased my A6 2 weeks ago. I test drove the FX35 several times and really liked it. As a daily driver it would have met my expectations and needs most likely.

OK, so why didn't I go with the FX then? My reasons:
* Concern over dealer service quality. I had purchased a couple of Infinitis from this same dealer in the past and I had declining-quality experiences with them. They assured me that things are "much better now."

* Financial: (This was the real deal-killer for me.) I was able to lease a fully loaded A6Q 3.0 for $399/mo. With relatively the same money down the FX was coming in at something like $525 - $575 (I can't remember the exact amount) per month. At one point they were well into the $650 range on a lease. They were not willing to deal even though their lot was overflowing with FX inventory. (They had about 35 or more in stock.) Not exactly the kind of inventory that qualified for "hard to get, command a premium" financing. If you are paying cash or financing, these points are moot.

* Aesthetics / Functionality: Love the interior looks, but I have 2 kids and one on the way. My wife and I were concerned about fitting 3 kid/booster seats in, although I am sure it would have worked. Also, after trying to get in and out of the back seat a few times, I thought that the door configuration caused an awkward ingress/egress situation. (At least for me.)

* Looks: Its a love-it-or-hate-it proposition. I like the looks a lot, but still think it would still be a little too in-your-face for my line of work (sales).

The FX is an incredible machine and I am sure I would have been happy with it. I just think the Audi is a classy car, great looks and exudes the quiet sense of class and elegance that fits me. (I hope that didn't sound too fruity...) Plus 4 years of paid maintenance was a nice bonus.

OK, I will back off of the long disertations unless someone has a question!

Good luck on your decision!
Keith

JBaumgart · March 2003

Given your situation and the deal you got, there is little doubt that you made the right decision. Hope you enjoy your new car.

markcincinnati · March 2003

If you "significantly" drive more than the Magic 16,666 miles per year -- leasing probably doesn't make much sense. However, my buddy prepaid milage on a new leased Caddy to allow him to drive 20K per year -- got a 24 month lease with 23 payments (owner loyalty, bla bla bla).

Any more than this, the leasing equation is pretty expensive and the argument, IMHO works in favor of buying -- hopefully this many miels have a hefty component of biz use and can either be charged to the company or to the IRS.

Moreover, very very old cars can be much less money, too. The issues, in my opinion are the 2 to 4 year old cars -- NEVER get one without an aftermarket PROTECTION plan of some kind -- lease or buy.

We are in a temporary situation where often the deals on new cars discounts plus interest rates (or money factors) makes it hard to justify a used car which has neither.

dtox · March 2003

I was shopping at my local Audi dealer this weekend for a new A4, and quickly realized that the back seat could not accommodate two baby/child seats. The dealer recommended their certified loaner program to me-- specifically pointing out a couple of beautiful 2001 A6's with 2.8 and quattro, in the $30,000 range, as well as offering an extended 7 yr, 100k warranty.

Buying preowned is new to me, specifically how much room i have to negotiate down from that 30k price.

So, my question(s) to the board: 1)does anyone have some real strong feelings toward/against the 2001 a6? (please share any wonder success stories and/or nightmares) and 2) what would be a fair $$ offer on the following: 2001 A6, 2.8, Quattro, 17,000 miles?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

markcincinnati · March 2003

The 2001 A6 is/was a good year. The 2.8 engine is a bit underwhelming, but it is a good performer and is fine for high speed cruising. Just don't expect to accelerate quickly, though.

With the warranty and extended service, you should be fine, too.

Price is anyone's guess. My dealer swears he can't "give used Audis away" because the lease deals on 2003's make them more attractive than used ones.

However, if you are paying cash, you can't beat it. Or if the interest rate you can get is "stimulative" (equal to or less than inflation) -- well that might be something to consider too.

We have just had a long and lively discussion of leasing versus buying over on the A4 board, so I'll just reiterate that the 01 A6, all things being equal, was a good year for Audis. If you could find a used 02, you would LOVE the engine, though.

dtox · March 2003

Thanks for the input Mark. Test drove an '02 A6 3.0 this afternoon. You were right-- I loved it. 7,500 miles, CVT, Certified for $32,500-- also offering financing @ 3.9%.

I am new to the Pre-Owned buying experience, does $32.5 k seem reasonable for this car? It is in perfect condition. Any feedback would be appreciated, as i am thinking about pulling the trigger on this as early as tomorrow...

timcar · March 2003

Edmunds says -

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/audi/a6/100003616/prices.html?ti- d=edmunds.u.mipmake.mippricetable..1.Audi*

No quattro?

dtox · March 2003

Nope, no quattro. I love the ride with the quattro, but I live in NC, so i don't realy "need it". Or, at least, that's how i am justifying it in my mind.

With all the options, Edmunds TMV has it at about 34,500-- so I guess that $32.5 price is fair.

Any idea how much "wiggle" room there may be in a typical dealer's preowned price?

markcincinnati · March 2003

Car sales have slumped since the Iraq thing started and actually had slumped somewhat over the past weeks. You should have, therefore some wiggle room.

Offer a price to start with that you would pay if they say yes and work up from there. It sounds like a pretty nice deal and with the 3.0 anc CVT, which I have driven, you will enjoy the ride.

I won't give you too much grief for not getting a quattro -- I have had a couple non quattro Audi's myself, and although I like the quattros better, I certainly think you will enjoy your new/used ride.

The 3.0 engine is a horse(power) of a different color, eh?

cdnpinhead · March 2003

that we're coming up on the end of a quarter. I've had the opportunity to do some pretty good deals as April Fools Day approached.

There are monthly, quarterly and annual quotas that most dealers are trying to meet. They try much harder toward the end.

sjoet · March 2003

I own an Audi A6, 2,5 Ltr Turbo diesel. I have the navigation plus system in it, including television tuner.
Unfortunately, the television switches off while driving at aspeed higher then approx. 3 Mph.
1) Does anybody know how to disable this feature?
2) I want to connect a DVD player to it. Does anybody know if this switches off as well while driving?

Thanks for your feedback. Preferably to Sjoet80@hotmail.com

timcar · March 2003

Henk, it seems most posters here are in the U.S., and none of the options you describe are available here. I'm sorry not to have any answer to your question, but wanted you to be aware that none of the options in question are offered via AoA.

Audi A6

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