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What is your reasoning for getting your 2.7T vs the 3.0? I find it interesting that Audi comes with this choice.....
However, I am intrigued by Audi's premier purchase program which seems to have the benefits of both the lease and purchasing outright. Can anyone tell me how they evaluated this plan vs. a standard lease?
The A6 3.0 is the LEAST quick A6 in either Sedan or Avant configuration. (quattro assumed to keep things "equal").
Even the mighty A6 4.2, S6, S8 and 225HP TT coupe are not up to the A6 2.7T's accelerative powers.
Now, having said that -- the A6 4.2 feels as if it were carved from a single block of the strongest steel. The A6 4.2 feels more muscular, more solid and subjectively every bit as quick. It just doesn't accelerate like the A6 when equipped with the 2.7T engine -- in fact the 2.7T with the Tiptronic tranny even beats the A6 4.2 by a margin of .1 seconds.
The A6 2.7T is the same body as the 3.0, the 4.2 body is different (to allow for the size of the 4.2L V8, among other things).
Some prefer turbo, some non-turbo. The A6 3.0 is NOT a dog -- but the 2.7T 6M is quicker than the vast majority of cars on US highways -- yet it is still a comfortable and capable 4 door sedan with a sport suspension.
The 2.7T can be mildly chipped to take it to 300+ hp and around 350 lb/ft of torque -- no such option on the 3.0 or the 4.2 for that matter.
The 2.7T might be considered a bargain. If you are planning on getting an automatic, however, see if you can't negotiate a deal on an already on the lot A6 4.2 (for perhaps close to the same lease price as an ordered 2.7T). If you want the most performance bang for your USofA Audi buck, today, you have but one choice -- the 2.7T 6spd Manual.
I have had two A6 4.2's and currently have an '03 2.7T 6M allroad. Even with the extra weight of the allroad chassis -- this little engine, rockets the allroad forward in 6.8 seconds -- "a very fast & quick station wagon" indeed.
The 3.0 A6 quattro is a very fine car. It is comfortable, safe, well built and nearly luxurious -- it is just not as quick as many other cars brought to the US by AoA. If you care little about acceleration bragging rights and don't want a sport suspension or sport package -- the A6 3.0 quattro will not disappoint.
I would not be unhappy if I had to be "stuck" with an A6 3.0 -- well, maybe I would a little because I don't like Tiptronics -- and I have had four of them. Today, the 6M transmission is more fun and allows (and encourages) higher performance and control.
Enjoy!
Is it faster than the RS6 or S4??
I overheard the Germans discuss the difference between quick and fast. The Audi brochure that can be had in the US claims if you read the fine print, that "all Audis are equally fast" as they are limited to 130mph. So the question "how fast is it?" was answered by the Germans basically by them responding, "all Audis are close in this regard, because they all have some limiting." Of course, in the US market the limiting is much more severe than it is in Germany.
So, the Germans comments about our obsession with 0-60mph (or 0-100kph which is actually 62mph) stuck with me. The Germans wanted us to be precise -- we talk horsepower but are clearly more interested in torque at a certain RPM, because we are interested NOT in how fast the car is, but how quick the car is. Whew!
So, the statement that TODAY the A6 6M 2.7T is the quickest and is tied as the fastest (with all the other US Audis), as a current US available model, still stands.
Also, when the RS6 and the new S4 (US modles) become available -- they will beat the socks off the other Audis. The RS6, depending on who's doing the writing has 0-100kph times that begin with a 4, and the S4 has a time that begins with a 5. No US Audi TODAY is quicker than 6 seconds -- and that is the 2.7T 6M A6.
The Germans told us to be precise, I have perhaps over done it -- but this is how they explained it to us, so I dutifully report it for your edification, hopefully.
Indeed, this concern over perception is the reason that the US S6 is only available as an Avant -- becuase the M5 will "peel the doors off of an S6," but an RS6 will do that -- see Car and Driver -- to the M5.
In the future, there will be a US RS4 and hopefully an RS8 -- it is the conclusion of some car magazine author that we are near the end of the S Audi cars. The US A6 4.2 was/is "close" to the S6 Avant in performance -- too close for the marketing department. Note too, no US bound RS6 Avant, although it is clearly available elsewhere.
Marketing -- perception is reality, eh?
A woman bought a new A6 last fall from the authorized dealer in Warwick, RI . At Christmas she loaned it to her daughter who drove to Montreal for New Years'. The engine failed in Canada. Audi US said that it would not cover a warranty situation in Canada. If she wanted US warranty consideration, they said she had to get the car back across the US/ Canadian border. To get the car back into the US she had to be present in person, not the ramp truck driver, at the border crossing for customs forms etc. Audi said once it was back in the US they would have it transported to the nearest US dealer (who was in VT). She declined having it brought to a Vermont dealer, because she was living in Boston some 8 hours away in January weather. She had it transported instead to an Audi dealer in southern NH because of its proximity to Boston.
After lengthy discussions, Audi turned her down for warranty saying that the routine service and maintenance work since the car was new hadn't been done at an authorized Audi dealer.
Stuck with an unsaleable car, the woman paid the NH dealer to install a "new" (remanufactured?)engine so she could then dump the car.
Is the above story even plausible under present Audi warranty policy?
Let's say she bought the car new in September (Fall), that's only 3-4 months when the car broke down around Christmas time. How many miles on the engine? 4k, 10k or 20k? If the engine did fail, there's no way Audi, or any auto manufactuer refuse to take care of it. UNLESS, something really obvious and wrong was done to the car that Audi or any other car manufactuer deem its better to deny warranty.
This did happen to a guy that abused his Subaru WRX and the dealer and Subaru of America feel justified to deny warranty. In this case, the Subaru dealer and Subaru of America found evidence that the engine was tampered with and was used beyond what the manufactuer intended.
Thanks for your input.
Was it Sergeant Joe Friday that said, "facts changes cases"?
I would not purchase one from E-bay.
If you can find a 2002 A6 quattro of any flavor (3.0, 2.7T or 4.2) it will have some major improvements over the 2001. Speaking as a former 2001 owner (and a '99 and '00 and now '03 allroad), the '02's seemed to have been constructed with better brakes, transmissions and even better engine components. Save yourself some grief -- get a Certified Used model and get an '02. The '02 A6 3.0 quattros are quite nice too.
For sheer performance the A6 2.7T 6M (again 2002) will be a BLAST!
I have the opportunity to buy a 2003 A6 3.0 Quattro from my local dealer. This car has 8000 miles on it from the owner's mother who gets a dealer car every six months or so. The car is as clean as a whistle. It has the premium package and cold weather package and they are asking about $6,000 off MSRP (roughly $36k). This car also comes with the 4 yr/50k warranty plus the extended 2 year / 100k warranty. I'm very tempted to buy this car since it seems like a great opportunity to get a virtually new A6 for a deep discount. The dealer calls it a demo because it was never "titled".
Any words of wisdom as I ponder this decision???
Thanks
But maybe the best reason to buy it is the two year longer warranty. So, you pay a little less and get a lot longer warranty.
I guess my main concern, like most folks buying an Audi for the first time, is the reliability factor. I'll basically get a 6 year/100k warranty with this vehicle. If I keep the car longer than the warranty period it could get very expensive.
Are Auid's really as bad (reliability wise)as the folks on these boards claim? Or do these folks represent a significant minority of Audi owners?
Due to the warranty, I'm not concerned about repair costs. However, I am about concerned about the inconvenience of having to take the vehicle to the repair shop on a relatively frequent basis, or having to cancel a road trip at the last minute because of some strange noise or random malfunction .. that kind of stuff.
Anyway, thanks for your insight.
The brake rotors on both my 00 and 01 A6 4.2's were changed -- no kidding -- more frequently than the oil was changed. The brakes on my wife's 00, 01 and 03 TT never required replacment (the 03 only has 8K miles on it so far).
I have had several Audi turobs, chipped one of them and NEVER had any engine problems other than the time I didn't tighten the gas cap and the check engine light came on.
I believe my Audi is NOT in the shop very often. However, having said that Audis (and BMW's and Mercedes and Volvos and and and) are BREATHTAKINGLY expen$ive to repair. With the 100K warranty and the 50K Audi advantage you should be fine. Since you do not have the turbo to contend with, that too should ease your mind. Replacing the timing belt sometime shortly after 65K is prudent -- but that is not because it is an Audi.
I would not have one of these cars out of warranty -- personally. But, they are great driving, riding and performing cars, even though you are getting the least sporting model of the A6 line (don't take that wrong -- the car is still quite nimble and will perform better in non sport mode than many other brands in sport mode).
I would change the wheels and tires to a plus 1 configuration and use (based on where you live) an ultra high performance all season tire -- and live happily ever after.
This is a very good deal -- perhaps, just perhaps it will not look as good once the 04's come out, but the price and the warranty will be hard to beat.
I still say, if you like the car, go for it.
as it stands, we now wish we had bought an A6 avant, and my local dealer has a '01 avant that they just CANT seem to sell,that still has less than 5K miles and the sticker on the window. if i can get the new car warranty, i.e. , another 40K/ 4 years, on a trade in for that wagon, that may be a solution that makes sense.
Mark
mark
And by the way, GE sells about eight different combinations of mileage and coverage, for which the dealer charges substantially different prices. None of them are true bumper-to-bumper warranties, like the original manufacturer's warranty. The literature is also vague as to what is covered. For example: our dealer recently had to replace an A4's tranny. It cost $8K, GE's top warranty picked up the cost for the tranny, but stuck the owner with the $1500 control module. Ouch! But a lot better than nothing. My wife opted for base coverage plus, which is just engine and tranny, with some extras thrown in. It was about half what the most expensive GE warranty would have cost.
It seems that they WANT to provide this -- and my assumption is that that is a good thing because they really do want repeat buyers. More than one might conclude after reading some of the posts here and on Audiworld.
Seems like fairly reasonably priced insurance.
Make a B-Line to your dealer and ask for the exception!
I had (one time) an exteneded non-Audi warranty. The car, of course, didn't really have any major problems until about 98,000 miles, so I had them fixed and traded the car -- this, as I recall is the ONLY time I have ever kept any car out of the original factory warranty.
Probably, never again -- the cost is too high and besides I like having younger cars than that.
To each his/her own.
I recently got a flat and it was a pain in the butt to use the very weak jack that audi provides. It fell down on me three times, before I got frustrated and called roadside assistant. For a $42,000 car, that is the cheapest jack i've ever seen and used. I recently had to change my mother's Nissan Altima's tire and used it's jack. It is kind of sad that the jack that came with the $25,000 Altima was the easiest and best jack I've ever used. That was the only complaint I had with Audi.
I will be taking the car on a long road trip for the Fourth of July. I'll tell you how the car performed with the trunk full and driving for 13 hours when I get back.
As always, drive safely.
I specifically asked our dealer, in April, if the coils should be replaced as a preventative measure. I was told that Audi was not replacing them until and unless a problem arose. With 30,000 miles on the vehicle, I was content to leave well enough alone.
It would be insipid for any business to treat customer service as an afterthought; however, where safety is concerned, such conduct borders on the criminal. A major recall should have been conducted, long ago.
I continue to appreciate the cars and many aspects of their engineering. Further, I am not going to make a precipitous decision to not purchase an Audi product, again. I shall wait for calm to be restored. On the other hand, I feel that all of us, on this message board, have been far too tolerant of Audi/VW's corporate conduct, now and in the past.
Hopefully you will never need the warranty -- but that is the same reason we buy collision insurance -- just in case.
=====
On the issue of the coils -- I agree overall that VW/Audis handling of the coil problem was not exactly what we would expect in this line of cars (Audi especially). But, my 2 cents is that Audi and VW dealers need to be sent out for regrooving or something. So many folks here complain about dealer treatment and competence.
If anyone from Audi/VW of America lurks on these boards they must be mortified as to the treatment that some dealers give to some customers.
Raise the bar on the dealers, I say, the other issues will fade into distant memory then.
Kill the customers with kindness and superior service -- the cars without any quality improvements will magically become more highly rated by the customers. And, during the process of improving the dealers, keep working relentlessly on QC. The combination will be almost unbeatable in the marketplace.
However, in the "coil" case, I would suggest that corporate Audi, both German and domestic, bears the primary responsibility. Their late response, prodded by both customer complaints and the New York Times, has been a model of incompetence and lack of emphasis upon safety. Audi's image will suffer from this episode.
I am sure most of us remember the "Tylenol" debacle. Clearly, that was far more serious than this situation. The lesson to be learned was the value of a prompt, and public, response of the corporation. Such action not only saved lives, but brought the company much needed respect and trust.
Perhaps we need a change in Audi management, at least in the USA.
Because of all the bad press Audi is getting, I'm surprised they haven't gone to the aftermarket and had the Chinese make a gazillion of these things. Or, temporarily change back to one coil per engine (sure there would be a change in distributors and wires). Anything would be better than the hits they are taking over the present situation.
Mark?
And Mercedes. . . .
The "invisible hand" will take care of these problems, I am certain. The cost to Audi and VW will be far more than they could imagine and far more than fixing the problem (Tylenol example was great) -- shortages or no.
New management in the US -- perhaps. But, by all accounts, Len Hunt (VP) is already a fine manager.
The US is the DISTRIBUTOR of the products. Each dealership is an independent business.
This is a tough place to be for Audi and especially VW now. At least Audi keeps making cars that win praise and publicity (for the right reasons) with the automotive press (car and driver loverd both the RS6 and S4, in the same issue, no less).
VW, unfortunately has been pummled for the Phaeton and some other issues (the W8 Passat has fallen into a marketing black hole apparently) -- although the Toureg is being almost breathlessly awaited accroding to Car and Driver television.
Again, the market will vote with dollars (the invisible hand). Apparently it has already starting doing so.
The initial reaction might be to make the cars more attractive to acquire -- either by rebates or super financing and leasing deals. That will benefit you if you wish to acquire now. Of course that will neither cure the dealer issues or any quality (or availability of parts) issues.
With respect to the coils, announcing that there was a shortage and what was being done about it would have been the appropriate course of action, in 20 20 hindsight.
Perhaps the German corporate Audi needs a change in management. That is where the problem started. They are responsible for the design and manufacturing quality of the parts that go into their cars.
I suspect the best you can hope for now is to escalate the problem to someone who has the authority to make the correction/repair happen.
However, if there are no parts, well -- even that will be impossible.
This has been handled really poorly.
Hopefully they will rise to the situation. . . .
Please keep us informed.
It's just hard to believe that we've gotten the straight scoop on this whole coil issue. Their top corporate management should have been able to figure out RIGHT AWAY how many of these parts would have to be produced in order to replace ALL of them in affected models, and then put into place an action plan and do WHATEVER IT TOOK to produce enough of them. When owners are afraid to even take their cars out for a drive, for fear of getting stranded, it's a big problem! And when prospective owners get the feeling that the manufacturer doesn't care all that much about taking care of their customers - which is what they are saying when they tell people they need at least a second one to fail before they'll do anything about it - you can understand why their sales are down.
About a week and a half ago I sent an e-mail through the customer service contact page of my My Audi page on the Audi website asking when the "voluntary recall" would occur. Within at most two days there was a message on our answering machine asking that I call.
I called and got not a customer service representative but a "customer advocate." She looked my message up on her computer and I repeated it as well. She said there was no policy calling for replacement of the coil packs.
I said it was announced in the WSY and the NY Times. Although her accent made it difficult for me to understand her, I believe I was told, more or less, not to believe what you read in the newspapers.
For crying out loud, that was a VW/Audi news release. Further, at one point there was a set of FAQ's in a hard to find place on the My Audi page that addressed this issue. I believe it also said that the coil packs would be replaced on the relevant models.
It may be that my use of the term voluntary recall, rather than customer service action, led my "advocate" to the wrong place on her computer. But I would think everyone at Audi of America would know of this problem and proposed solution by any name.
Both service advisors at my dealership have expressed understanding of my concern about taking the car out of town. I think in my next call to them I will ask if I could have the coil packs replaced at my own expense.
Yuck!
The car was towed to the dealer @ 31500 miles when it would not start. They replaced the temperature sensor and fuel injectors, all under warranty. I am afraid to live with this thing without a warranty. What would you do?
They are, however, very expensive to repair out of warranty. Probably the majority of them with proper loving care will soldier on with regular maintenance expense (which also can be expensive) for probably 150,000 miles before major repairs are required.
Having said all of that, I personally will not go without a warranty. It only takes one major expense one time on one car out of a lifetime of cars to more than cost justify keeping a warranty -- either the factory 50K warranty or the Audi assured 100K warranty or probably a reputable non-Audi warranty would be fine too.
Most if not all of what I have presented would apply to many other car brands. This should not be seen as a statement that "Audis -- alone -- are expensive to repair." Ditto BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, etc.
And an 03 Audi is not likely to have coil problems, isn't that true?