Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

akasrp · November 2003

Asked the huge volume Toyota dealer in SoCal about ordering a Camry V6 SE (I want Side/Curtain Airbags and VSC - so will have to special order as no V6 SEs come so equipped).
Was quoted 4 months for expected delivery.
When is an option not an option?
Get with it Toyota!

fsmmcsi · November 2003

Akasrp - Why not order the car? However, you really should call around, especially here in SoCal, as there are many dealers. Some of the big volume dealers really only want to sell what is on the lot. The fleet / internet sales people I have talked to are more than happy to order cars. Toyota should not take four months to build a Camry, especially since it is built in the USA.

I have ordered most of the cars I have purchased, and five or six weeks seems to be the maximum time between order and delivery.

The salespeople who do not know their product are both annoying and amusing, but Edmunds, car magazines, and other web sites priovide all of the facts you need before seeing and driving a car.

alpha01 · November 2003

Dont look to CR as a source for performance figures- its really not what they do best. (As a side note, the current Camry XLE V6 has 18hp and 12lb.ft. and an extra gear ratio than the one CR tested. Car and Driver tested the old 192 hp Camry V6 at 8.2 and 7.9 seconds to 60, both clearly better than CRs 8.7 seconds.)

The Accord and Camry 4s are regarded as some of the most refined (and efficient) 4s in the industry. I am surprised you found the Camry's buzzy, although I have heard that the Accord is a bit of a shaker at idle.

I find the Camry in general, and especially SEs, much more aethestically pleasing than the Accord, but I understand your comments, especially about the Camry's uninspired but high quality interior. For the reasons you state, I would tell you not to get the Camry, I dont think you will enjoy it.

One comment: you stated "The car just doesn't grab me." You're considering Accord and Camry, with combined sales of 800,000 units in one year. How much do you really expect out vehicles so clearly designed for the masses?

~alpha

canoe2 · November 2003

Why the Accord was specified 1000 lb towing capacity ? (big car small tow)
The Camry: 2000
The Corolla: 1500
The Civic: NR
Is there anything to do with transmission for towing capacity ?

anonymousposts · November 2003

The Accord reached out and grabbed me. I didn't like the look from the first pictures that were released but after seeing one in person I was hooked. Now 2 Accords later (03 EX-L coupe and 04 EX-L sedan) there is still no better car FOR ME in this price range.

My engine is as smooth as glass whether at idle or full-throttle. The transmission is great, especially compared to previous Honda transmissions which had a rough 1-2 shift.

vroomman · November 2003

My sister just purchased the Accord Coupe EX ... fully loaded ...

I had a chance to take a few fun-filled spins w/ it. Great performance for the price ... smooth acceleration ... quality sound system ... sharp interior. We looked at the Camry/Altima 3.5/Toyota Solara ... we took the Accord without a thought ...certainly the best bang for the buck.

The free XM Radio (3 months) is a good deal as well.

nw1997 · November 2003

Does anyone know what it would cost to purchase an 04 EX V6 Accord with navigation?

Thanks

pat · November 2003

Hi nw1997 - since the purpose of this discussion is specifically to compare the Accord to the Camry, it's probably not the best place for your question.

You might want to read through several pages of messages in our Honda Accord: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion. Also check out any other dedicated Accord discussions by using the search features on the left side of the page.

Good luck!

stantoyota · November 2003

Opinion: I tested drive the 2004 Camry and 2004 Accord last week. Camry ride is the best compare to Accord. I rather buy Corolla than Accord. Accord is so bumpy. However, Accord has pretty neat gadgets which I like. Overall, I like Camry better. Will buy Camry this weekend.

nw1997 · November 2003

stantoyota,

We ordered and test drove an 04 CAMRY SE V6 and liked the ride, roominess and the exterior among other things. We did test drive the Accord and also noticed the difference in the ride alothough our suspension was said to be firmer or choppier. The new 3.3L engine made a difference. Which model, features did you get and how much did you pay before TTL?

stantoyota · November 2003

I just test drove the 04 Camry LE 4 Cyl. It comes with ABS, Package "A", tinted windows for $19,354.50 + TTL + Sales Tax.

laker64 · December 2003

I have always been an Accord fan, however, the new exterior styling makes it look like a bloated Buick! Even though the previous generations of the Accord had innocuous styling, at least they were leaner looking and didn't look like a bloatmobile. Is it just me, or did the Accord stylists really blow it??? The Camry, while not exciting design-wise, is much better looking IMHO.

lelandhendrix · December 2003

IMO, I feel completely opposite.

The new camry styling is vey nice, but not interesting to me around the grill and headlights.

It's interesting how the new Accord styling brings mixed reactions, and maybe that's part of why I love it more. It's more inventive. Additionally, Honda styling of the past 20 years have been known to look fresh years longer than other makes.

jcihak · December 2003

I recently bought an Accord EX V6. IMO Accord, Camry, and M6 styling is all pretty boring. But that's not why I bought the car. If I wanted just looks I would have gotten a Mini.

atlantabenny · December 2003

While we all agree that style is subjective, we might all regard BMW cars - at least before the new 5 and 7 series - as extremely well designed, proportioned and styled.

One big reason is that each BMW car has about 27,000 styling elements (curves, angles, changing surfaces, etc.), while a regular domestic car would have 13,000 average (source: Strategic Mgt of Tech. & Innovation by Burgelman, etc., 2001).

Collectively, these elements have the effect of telling our mind's eye that a car has "quality" or is run of the mill.

Viewed closer, the current Accord - like a BMW - has much more surface subtleties than does the Camry. IMO it's the reason why it takes time to appreciate the Accord's style, and why it tends to grow on someone. The Camry's more simple personality, OTOH, doesn't require much deciphering.

As to a carmaker's "design language," a broader concept of how cars should look ("cheetah," "eagle," "Buicky," etc.), that's a different matter. This has a lot to do, I believe, with a carmaker's traditions, culture, national stature, vision, etc. Any wonder why European car mfrs. have leadership in this area ?

billyperks · December 2003

Initally I did not like the Accord's styling, but it eventually grew on me. I was leaning towards the Mazda 6 but my wife was dead set on getting her Accord.The TSX was another option but for value, I think we hit the nail on the head by purchasing the Accord.

Sometimes when I look at the Accord it shows similarities with the TSX.

If Honda had put the TSX tail lights on the Accord it would have been a winner across the board in terms of styling- IMHO.

nw1997 · December 2003

billyperks,

Your last statement, Now that I can agree upon!

motownusa · December 2003

AND You cannot compare long time reliability based on just a single comparison between two cars. Data shows that the big threes reliability over long term is not as great as Toyota and Honda. That is simply a fact not something concocted by the Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, or Motor Trend. Even JD Powers survey, which gives some domestic manufacturer high initial quality, shows long term reliability problem for those same exact cars.

nw1997 · December 2003

motownusa,

You said it 100% correct. NO WAY is the domestics able to compete with the Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans. I must say though, they are improving, but not quite a fair or equal comparison. dsuupr, I understand where your coming from, but look around in the east and west coast most of the cars now adays are foreign and most are either Toyota, Honda or Nissan brands. Also, for the first time ever has a foreign company sold more vehicles than a domestic vehicle in the same country. I am refering to Camrys being sold more than Fords (trucks, SUV,s, etc.) The Camry is now topping sales of both Hondas and Nissans. Why, simply great quality, reliability and dependability. These cars are simple to work on and parts are not an arm and a leg. I would still choose brand X over any other, anyday. Reason being, no car is perfect, but brand X comes close.

alpha01 · December 2003

Camrys do NOT outsell Ford trucks. Camry and Accord sales to indiviual consumers are actually very similar, as 12%, I believe, of Camry sales are to fleets (rental car companies, corporation provided vehicles, etc), whereas only 2-3% of Accord sales are. This is the primary reason while, although Camry resale values are strong-above the class average according to Dec. 2003 Kiplingers magazine- they are still about 3-4% lower than similar Accords after 2 and 4 years of ownership.

To answer one of your questions from another thread, I have not driven the Accord EX V6, though I have ridden in one. Excellent vehicle overall, and it would be a tough call between similarly equipped Accord EX V6 and Camry SE V6. I'd end up going with the Camry if for no other reason than more available safety features- the Camrys seat mounted side airbags are now much larger than the Accord's, and VSC is a good thing to have on slick roads, or if you simply misjudge speed... say on an off-ramp. I prefer the looks of the Camry SE as well, but certainly, this is subjective, and the newest generation of both cars has its huge opponents and proponents.

~alpha

nw1997 · December 2003

Alpha01,

There was somewhere I read about for the first time a foreign vehicle has beat a domestic vehicle in sales volume. I have to do some research to find out where I read this. It was recently in the ending portion of Novemaber. I will get back to you on this because I know you are interested on knowing facts like this :-)

bronzemaxell · December 2003

i think ford f150 still has the highest number of per model vehicles sold in U.S

atlantabenny · December 2003

You might have read about Toyota's combined vehicle - and not only Camry - sales in the US as topping Ford's.

The F-150 is still the single-model sales topnotcher by virtue of the fact that outside the metro areas, small and mid-size businesses (literally millions) need a heavy-duty work vehicle like the F-150.

Other than the F-150 and the SUV models, Ford has essentially their spotty rental fleet/premium brand (Volvo, Jag)/small-volume sporty models. While Toyota and Honda have excelled in the car category (and sales thereof), Ford and GM have admitted neglecting it and have thus vowed to refocus there.

Unless Ford or GM buys Honda or Toyota (which they can't), the domestics will have to bite the bullet in R & D, engineering and manufacturing to produce a Camry or an Accord equivalent.

dsuupr · December 2003

Buick has shown long term reliability by all these publications to be higher than Toyota and Honda for years. To add to that, we have had Buicks with well over 200,000 miles on the same engine, transmission and such. At this point we have a GM product that is all original that is about to hit 400,000 miles. It started out as a police car, became a cab car and now is ours.

Show me a Toyota or Honda that can take that kind of abuse on original equipment.

motownusa · December 2003

Ford F150 is the most popular selling vehicle(car or truck) in the world. But Toyota as a company is outselling Ford in 2003 by couple of hundred thousand vehicle. In fact, by the end of this year Toyota will replace Ford as the second largest automobile company.

talon95 · December 2003

"Buick has shown long term reliability by all these publications to be higher than Toyota and Honda for years."

Beg to differ... I just rechecked Consumer Reports, and for the model years 95-02, here's how the Century and Regal scored vs. Accord and Camry in overall reliability:

Century:

Below average - 1 year
Average - 4 years
Above average - 3 years

Regal:

Below average - none
Average - 5 years
Above average - 3 years

Accord:

Below average - none
Average - none
Above average - 8 years

Camry:

Below average - none
Average - 1 year
Above average - 7 years

And reliability tends to go down for the Buicks as they age, unlike the Accord and Camry.

In addition, Buick has several cars on CR's "Used Cars to avoid" list, including the 2002 Rendezvous and the '01 and '02 Park Avenue.

Honda has one vehicle on the list... the Isuzu-built Honda Passport. And Toyota has NO vehicles on the list.

So at least this publication doesn't support your statement about Buick's "superior" long term reliability. Camry and Accord soundly outscore their Buick competition when you look over several model years.

As for anecdotal evidence, a friend of mine runs his cars "into the ground", and has taken 2 Toyotas (a Tercel and a Corolla) to over 250,000 miles, with original engine and transmission.

pat · December 2003

We are getting way too far from the subject. Let's remember we are comparing the Accord to the Camry and find more appropriate discussions (probably on our News & Views board) for these recent comments.

Thanks.

bobr14 · December 2003

Hi,

Like so many others, I am debating between an Accord and a Camry.
Would be new, 2004.

Like the Camry, perhaps a bit more, but am concerned that in the 2003 Consumers Union ranking, Accord is Excellent for reliability, while Camry dropped significantly to an Average rating.

Imagine the 2004 rankings would be similar, as cars are essentially unchanged.

True ? Has Camry relaibility really dropped down ?

Why ?

Might I also solicit opinions on 4 vs 6 cyl.
on Accords and Camrys:

A good idea for the price differential ?

Thanks,
Bob

alpha01 · December 2003

from Consumer Reports can be found on newsstands everywhere in CR publication called 2004 New Car Preview (or something similar). In it, the the Camry's Predicted Reliability rating, based on the most recent CR survey of owners, is back up to the "Much Better than Average" mark. The redesigned Accord slipped only slightly to "Better than Average".

In both cases, the ratings reflect the consequence of purchasing a first year redesign, and shows that no automaker is immune to quality gaffes. In the Camry's case, it was mostly interior trim issues, which apparently have been resolved. Since 2004 marks the third year of the Camry design and the second of the Accord's, I'd say either is a very safe reliability bet, and the question returns to the traditional Accord v. Camry argument: Do you prefer precision and driver involment (Accord) or do you prefer the extreme in refinement, ride, and isolation (Camry).

With respect to 4 vs. 6. Both the Camry and Accord 4 cylinder provide plenty of power and account for 70- 75% of sales. The Accord 4 with auto hits 60 in the mid 8s, and the Camry 4 auto, low 9s. Fuel economy of both is impressive, with Accord returning about 1 MPG more, due to its 5th gear. The Camry 3.0 V6 gives up acceleration to the Accord 3.0 V6 (with the Accord hitting 60 in 7 seconds flat, and the LE/XLE V6 Camry hitting 60 in the high 7s.). The Camry 3.3L V6 offers much more torque than the Accord, offering similar 0-60 but likely better passing times.

If I had the money to spend, my choice would be a Camry SE V6 with Premium Pkg and VSC/Side Airbags. It offers, IMO, the best engine, best ride/handling tradeoff, and of course subjective- best styling. The Camry also offers a longer warranty, for what its worth, and you cant get stability control on ANY Accord. (The Camry seat mounted side airbags are larger than those on Accord as well).

Now, if you're looking overall for the best portfolio of features, efficiency, reliability, safety and value, you can't beat the Accord EX 4 cylinder with side airbags.

Its all a matter of preference.

Best of luck!
~alpha

danielj6 · December 2003

"Do you prefer precision and driver involvement (Accord) or do you prefer the extreme in refinement, ride, and isolation (Camry)."

I'd prefer all of the above or even one set of choices. I'm getting quite worried and even annoyed at the different problems my Mercury Sable is giving me. Next time I get a Honda or Toyota and nothing else. My last reliable car was a 1991 Camry, and after I traded it everything went down from there.

sarakay · December 2003

I'm in the market for an Accord or Camry to replace my old '87 Accord. The new car will spend part of its life in western Pennsylvania (USA) where snow, ice and hills are a factor.

Which car does better in the snow, assuming a good set of snow tires are installed?

I'm also wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to V6 to get traction control. My understanding is that traction control is used to accelerate in slippery conditions - is this correct? I'm usually a conservative driver, especially in poor weather conditions. My old Accord 4 cylinder with Arctic Alpines has done well in snow. Apparently traction control is only available on the V6 models and I'd have to buy a bunch of features I don't need or want to get it. But if it's a real safety issue that would be a consideration.

I'm also wondering about the low-hanging exhaust pipe I see on the new Camrys. Does that cause a problem in snow? Do they bottom out a lot?

Any comments appreciated ...
Sara

barryss · December 2003

I coming up on the one month mark with my Accord EX V6 and have been through a stretch of bad weather with two snowstorms, sleet, and freezing rain. I have to say that I've been surprised at how well the Accord has handled in bad weather. The Accord is extremely poised under icy and slippery driving conditions and gives me a solid feeling of confidence and control. I've only had the traction control kick in a couple of times when hitting icy patches, but it definitely helped maintain full control of the vehicle.

Is the traction control worth the upgrade to the V6? If I was driving in a hilly, icy conditions, I'd sure want it.

Not sure I can comment on the Camry except to say that the Accord has superior road feel--which may translate into better control under slippery conditions. However, I'm sure the Camry would be excellent as well.

Barry S.

yanker · December 2003

I owned a 96 Camry for seven years and put on 90000 miles. It was fine in snow. I now have an 03 Accord 4 with auto and I am impressed with how well it handles in snow. It is even better than the Camry. The catch is we have not had a 36 inch snow dump or any ice. That will tell the difference. Tires are Michelin ____ plus. Based on our Avalon they are expensive and there plenty of tires for less than $136. Tires don't seem to be a factor.

chucko3 · December 2003

Drove the 03EXV6 in snow storm a couple times.
The car did not have any problem going up the hill on a badly plowed road. The TCS kicked in a few times.
The car still has the OEM Michelin tires.

The low hanging exhaust pipe on the Camry. I am sure it will hit the packed snow path in the middle of an unplowed road.

alpha01 · December 2003

with low hanging exhaust pipe (leased 97, leased 00, purchased 02), 110,000 miles later... never posed a problem..

Tires make a big difference. Traction control is probably worth the extra dough, if only for added peace of mind, and Toyota's V6 offers stability control as well.

~alpha

sarakay · December 2003

Thanks so much for your responses. You guys have convinced me that traction control is a good thing. Gotta go take some test drives ...
Sara

cmore38w · December 2003

I had a 2000 Camry XLE V6 with traction control and Michelin Artic Alpins. Nothing would stop it. The traction and control in snow were great. I now have a 2003 Camry XLE with 4cyl and NO traction control. We have had a lot of snow lately and with 4 Michelin Artic Alpins, I'm convinced nothing will stop it. It is as good, if not better than my 2000 with traction control. Frankly I don't think it is necessary to have traction control IF you have snow tires. Just my opinion........

a50 · December 2003

Although I've frequented Edmunds for several months, just today I discovered these helpful discussions!

I am trying to decide between an Accord and a Camry. A disadvantage of the 2004 Camry seems to be that it requires premium fuel. However, I read in some earlier posts that the 2003 Camry also "required" premium fuel but that the owner's manual said that an octane rating of 87 (regular unleaded) was sufficient.

Does anyone know if the 2004 Camry definitely requires premium fuel? Thanks!

drmp · December 2003

A salesman at Honda told me that the accord can run on regullar but provides best performance and longivity with premuim gas. That makes it pretty even with camry.

alpha01 · December 2003

From my understanding, both the Camcord 2.4L 4s are fine with regular gasoline. The recommendation for the Camry's 2 V6s and the Accords 3.0 is that regular is fine, but premium will maximize fuel economy and performance. (As in, I dont think premium makes a difference on the 4s, and its NOT required on the V6s, though filling with it will yield the "best" results).

~alpha

a50 · December 2003

I forgot to include the fact that I was referring to the V6 Camry LE specifically, but you addressed it anyway. Thanks.

hansienna · February 2004

The last new Camry replaced an Accord. Here are the results of trade-ins for Camrys: 2 Ford Taurus, 1 Chevy Lumina, 1 Buick Century, 1 older Camry, 1 Accord.
The last new Accord in our neighborhood was a 2002 Accord to replace a 2001 Accord that got totalled.

carguy58 · February 2004

In my neighborhood I live in(the street) the whole entire neighborhood I see 1 02+ Camry where a Camry owner lives. Come to think about it no 03 Accord's on my street(I never thought about that before.) Come to think about we have tons of Civic owners on my street(about 8 them) ranging from 92-03 model years.

anonymousposts · February 2004

In my neck of the woods you can't go 10 miles without seeing a 2003+ Accord. But then again, you can't go 10 miles without seeing a Civic either.

pat · February 2004

Some off-topic posts have been removed. Let's talk about the Accord vs. the Camry and not each other, okay folks?

2002dx · February 2004

beside being the proud owner of a 2002dx accord manual (someday i'll have enough cash to upgrade to an ex on my next one) i also have the rare privilege of being able to drive my parents' 97 or '00 camry xle v6 when i come up during the winter to visit. i have yet to try my accord in the snow, however i can tell you that the 97 and 00 camry are pretty shabby in the snow - tend to slip a lot. granted no snow tires. accords in my humble opinion tend to handle better than camry -you can feel the road and corner better. The '03 and up base models now come with vtec and i believe 160 hp - which is plenty of hp for the weight of the car. my only gripe is the paint is thinner than it was on my 86 accord. i think toyotas have a more durable paintjob than today's hondas. they just have gotten cheap in the past years. but i still dont think it's worth sacrificing the handling, cornering, and neat-o honda gadgets that come with every honda. it just means a little extra waxing.

lelandhendrix · February 2004

I have to agree with you on this one. My accord seems very sure-footed. I just posted the same in the main accord forum.

hansienna · February 2004

Try comparing a Camry 4 cylinder with the lower powered Accord 4 cylinder OR compare a Accord V6 with a Camry V6.
The Camry V6 has too much power compared to an Accord 4 cylinder if you aren't used to it.

lelandhendrix · February 2004

Interesting comment, and may very well be true.

Of course, the initial reviews for the 2003 Accord considered the 4-cyl Accord to feel more like the V6 Camry than the 4-cyl.

What makes more difference in the snow is communicative steering and a chassis that lets you feel more of the road. While it may not absorb every bump, it's (Accord) supple while letting you feel the nuances of the road tell you if you have traction or not, before you ever lose it.

hansienna · February 2004

It seems that the Accord was #1 years ago and was surpassed by the Ford Taurus for a few years until the infamous "Oval" Taurus design and unreliable transmissions killed Taurus sales.
The Toyota Camry has been #1 for many years. What are the actual facts?

Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

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