Boring boring boring are the cars which you recommend. Corolla or Civic over an Alero, never!
mlm4, Grand Am GTs have four wheel discs and even SE models with the rear drums probably still have the same front discs. To me, rotors are not a major problem. Sure it's annoying, but as someone else mentioned, I'd get a good set of aftermarket rotors and be done with it. To me, major problems are things like engine, transmission, or suspension/chassis problems.
I've owned a 2000 Alero GL for a little over 2 years now and have no real complaints about it. No problems with warped rotors at all, had the common hand brake boot seam tear (only once), minor vibration of driver side mirror (doesn't bother me), and a metallic buzz from the underbody (my fault-apparently I hit something that bent a heat shield up against the exhaust pipe). Good car though-nice styling, comfortable interior, (albeit with typical poor quality GM leather upholstery), good power and a nice growl from the 2.4 twin cam engine, decent mileage, and a good balance between sharp handling and a compliant ride. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one, particularly at the low prices they now can be found at on the used market. As with any used car, get it fully inspected by a competent and objective mechanic, and try to find out as much about the car's history as possible. For me, it's about as close as I'll ever come to my desire for a BMW 3-series coupe!
Alero Owners, My grinding noise is finally fixed. The grinding noise is very common in all Alero's and Grand ams with the 16 inch Aluminum wheels and the Goodyear Eagle RSA and LS tires. Oldsmobile put these tires on to make the car more sporty and attractive, but apparently it was not designed for these tires in conjunction with the 16 inch rims. In order to stop the grinding noise you must inflate your tires to the MAX PSI which I believe is 44. Amazingly the grinding noise will go away. The following is a direct quote from an Oldsmobile maintenance announcement: "The {grinding}condition may be caused by raised ribs on the tire sidewall contacting the rim flange and creating an audible noise during vehicle cornering maneuvers. The rubbing action may cause minor cosmetic chafing on the rim flange, but will have no negative affect on the tire/wheel performance or durability" If anyone has any further questions please place a posting and I will be happy to elaborate. If you have the grinding noise try MAX inflating your tires and hopefully the noise will go away.
I have been told by credible mechanics, that the GM rotors are simply "of poor quality". They just can't handle the metalic brake pads. It is really just hit and miss it appears, depending on which rotors were put on your particular vehicle.
My mom has one of the first 99 Aleros and she has had no real problems aside from a sticky door and an intermediate shaft that needed lubricating. Just because you may have had a bad experience does not mean the car is bad. Please look at the big picture, not just an experience.
ryanroseberry : Interesting. I'm sure the OEM rotors are not the best on the market, but I'm not convinced they are as bad as your mechanic says.
The rotors on my '99 had to be replaced with the upgrades too. I've owned many cars, most to a 100k miles or more and most were GMs. This was the 1st car that I ever had to replace rotors on.
The cause of the rotor warping tells a lot. They were fine for many thousands of miles until I had to heavily brake from above 70 mph. Right after that I could tell the rotors were warped. It is obvious that the rotors couldn't take the heat input rate. Whether it was the material or the thickness or a combination, it doesn't matter. They weren't up to the task, period.
I'm afraid that raising the pressure from 30 to 44PSI will worsen the ride quality a lot and possibly shorten the shocks lives... This is what I guess would be the side-effects of such "fix". Is it really the way to go? :^/
obviously to replace the tires. But it doesn't sound like GM is going to pick to the tab.
Running tires that are good at 30 psi up at 44 psi is bad news. Your contact patch will be all hosed up with the attendant bad (scary) handling and they will ride like rocks. I would also advise caution about their wet road grip. Tell us if they don't slide around.
My advise is save yourself a lot of aggravation and replace the tires. They obviously aren't worth keeping and they sure sound like a safety problem.
I also had the 15s BFG touring TAs. They didn't save my rotors. Based on the circumstances I described when they warped (somone related a similar situation way back), it isn't the wheel size but a high rate of deceleration (heat input) that did it.
Did you see my earlier posts where I had to dump the BFGs at 32000 miles because they were making all sorts of road rumble? Some people think it was a bad set since they had good experiences with them. No other Alero owners have reported this. But they are history anyway.
As for the rotors, hopefully mine last. Who knows, I'm not going to stay up nights worrying about it. If they do go at some point I will have after market ones installed.
Thanks everyone for all your advice! Was wondering what type of after market roters would you suggest to replace the warped ones? Also anyone who had done this has it fixed the problem. About the window regulator my Grand Am did the same thing. It only hapened when the window was frozen shut and I tried to force it down. I bought it used at a salage yard. I still have one for the GrandAm that I never put on it before I wercked it. Wonder if it would fit on the Alero just in case.
This is a very interesting answer from Oldsmobile. Considering I took my '00 Alero to the mechanic and they told me the noise was coming from my transmission...unreal! Anyway, the same mechanic did an oil change and rotated my tires. Strangly enough, the noise went away for the most part. I believe that an increase in air pressure helped to almost eliminate the noise.
Surely new tires would probably eliminate the noise entirely, but the short term answer is to increase air pressure.
And on a third note, I do think they put less than adequate rotors on the vehicle. I think many users have a serious complaint with the warping rotors that GM should address.
Best of luck to all! I hope to sell my '00 Alero with 55K miles next year.
Written in the rest of the maintenance memorandum that Oldsmobile published about the grinding noise, it did say that it is commonly misdiagnosed as a transmission problem. The mechanics originally told me it was the transmission as well, after they fixed the brakes and realized that, that didn't stop the the grinding noise either. I was surprised that they told me to max inflate the tires to stop the noise. As someone wrote above that is a terrible answer. I'll have to play with the tire pressure to see what the medium is between UNSAFE and NO GRINDING NOISE. I agree that there are a lot of common problems with the ALERO that GM should address, but have not.
Thank you for your intelligent postings. The information you provided helped to ease my mind about the noise that was coming from my Alero. I wish you the best of luck with your '01 and future vehicles.
after at least 10 attempts, if not more, to fix my driver side vibrating mirror, i was told by the dealer that it doesn't seem that they can fix it. so they said to wait until the oldsmobile rep is in town so we can see what he says and we will go from there. does anyone have any suggestions on where I should go from here, on my own? it has all been documented with oldsmobile customer service and while they are polite and have offered some free oil changes for all the inconvenience, they won't send the coupons until it is fixed but the dealer says it can't be fixed??? meanwhile i have it "rigged" with a folded up napkin to keep the annoying vibration to a minimum. what great engineering...
Please feed me back on the manual transmission of the Alero.
I just had my 2002 Alero six weeks ago. I picked the manual transmission mostly for the fun of driving but also for the end of season deals. I have driven manual transmission for few years but my last car was automatic. At the beginning, shifting particularly to first or second gears was not fully smooth meaning I have to push the stick a little harder and the timing is not perfect for those two gears. I attributed that to a new car and that I have driven an automatic car for the past few years. Today after six weeks and about 1500 miles I still feel something is not right. Shifting to first or second gear is not as smooth as it is for the third gear from second gear, say, clutch is a little touchy meaning the power is not transmitted very smoothly while in the first gear, I have to be very careful and watch for the exact position of the clutch or the car will stop. Again, I used a manual transmission for few years and feel that is not right. Last week I tested a Camry and an Accord with manual transmission and they were both smother than the Alero, particularly for the first gear operations. I understand every manual transmission can be different from the others but any suggestions?
magdy : The 5-speed in the Alero is a Getrag, generally a very well regarded manual. I would get it checked as it should be smoother than you describe.
infinia : You have one incompetent garage working on your car. Have you ever tried bringing it somewhere else?
living in wyoming, i don't have many dealer choices unless i want to drive over 50 miles out of town. but...i did have the chevrolet dealer, white's chevrolet, try about 4 times....nothing worked. then i took it back to the oldsmobile dealer, big wyoming pontiac, buick, oldsmobile, gmc, cadillac, again another 6 times and they are the ones that say they have tried everything and can't fix it. that dealer is a sorry excuse for a gm dealer, that's for sure-especially cadillac. gm should be ashamed of them as a dealer. the place is a dump! you have to walk into the service area just to get to the service desk! the whole place is filthy and completely incompetent!
I too have the 5 speed and love it. The Getrag is generally known for being a little more notchy than some others. (somewhere there is a 5 speed forum in here that discusses it) Mine is not butter smooth (linkage)going into first, but I don't think it is supposed to since you only downshift into first when at a standstill. It is my experience that the Getrag offers more "feel" than the Camry or Accord, which are devoid of any feel whatsoever.
One thing to note about Alero...you need less accelerator pressure than on some cars due to the higher low-end torque. I also had this problem with my Pickup truck several years ago, when trying to shift smoothly into 1st.
Depending on how much difficulty you are having, I'd give it some more time to break in. Otherwise, Dindak is right. Good luck with your Alero. Question: What color and model did you get?
Sounds like an awful place. My dealer calls me before an appointment to confirm and after to make sure I'm 100% happy. They also offer free shuttle, coffee/donuts and papers on top of very good service.
It's amazing that it's not like this everywhere. Make all the difference in the world.
Let us know if you ever find resolution to your problem.
I have the 2002 ruby red GX with sport package. Have you noticed that the basic 2002 GX have more options than the 2003 GX models including ABS, traction control, rear disk brakes and child safety locks.
You are absolutely right. GM decontented the car a little for 03. I have a ruby red GX sedan and I'm glad I bought an 02. I know they reduced the price a bit, but when you add the ABS back, you are definitely paying more. The 4 wheel discs with ABS were a selling point for me as there isn't much in this price range that has those features.
Infinia1: I can understand your frustration with the shaky mirror. Mine did it too, and it could not be fixed. I also had an un-fixable shimmy in the steering wheel, so much that my car was repurchased by GM as a LEMON! Yes, the Olds customer service people are nice, and even the 3 dealers that tried to fix my car were nice - but all I got for 13 months was an exhausting run-around. It took 3 months to finally get them to allow me to meet with the GM rep to discuss my problems - the first rep stood me up on two appointments, then was transferred to another division. Get the picture?? The whole process was not efficient and was terribly mishandled as I was attempting to resolve an ongoing problem. I was lost in the chain-of-command between the dealers & manufacturer, and lots of precious time was wasted. Lots of confidence lost. My Alero experience was so miserable that I am not likely to stray from imports again. I took a chance - tried to be proud, buy a domestic brand car, and I was embarassed in front of my peers for it. Consumer Reports WAS definitely right this time - live & learn! Buyer beware!
<rant> Bob Lutz said that he was going to do that over a year ago... :^( And I'm not happy with it!
I bought my Alero BECAUSE of the richer standard equipment!
IMO, it's a misguided strategy. He's wondering why people don't buy GM, prefering in some cases imports, looks at the price and at the standard features lists and thinks that people prefer to personalize the cars they buy. Well, the fact is that most imports have neither ABS nor alloy wheels, so I believe that it's not why they buy them.
What I think will actually happen is that people will defect GM. He's not asking the right question: why are people buying GM cars? </rant>
I don't think you are being fair when you say that all "domestics" are not good because you had a bad experience with one car. Fact is on average, domestic makers stack up well these days and people do not need to "beware". While I sympathize with you or anyone who has a bad car, you were treated well and even had your car bought back. I'll bet Toyota would not do the same thing in a million years.
I agree, the rich standard equipment is why I have bought GM. ABS is a must in my opinion and having to pay extra now is wrong. I realize it's mostly the smaller cars that are getting hit with the decontenting, but I'm not sure it's a good move.
Just glad I bought an 02. I did notice the GLS Alero still has 4 wheel discs though.
dindak: Previous experience and research taught me to expect little things to fail on a GM product, but I tried to have faith. The little things that had to be repaired: fuel guage, seat track, door panels came apart, wobbly a/c knobs, inop cruise control, squeaks. Major issues like front suspension clunks / shudders and the unrepairable steering shimmy were the icing on the cake. True, every car maker has a few bad ones. But I now have even more faith in Consumer Reports' reliability ratings and the advice of my more experienced peers.
My neighbor has a bit of a lemon Accord. He had the transmission let go after about 10K. I see that and I should think, ack.. they sure don't make Honda's like they used to. I don't though because I know it's a lemon like your car was. Making a blanket statement based on your experience with one car (that was even bought back in good faith) is not fair.
It allows GM to build vehicles at a lower cost and, when the options are added back in (at a higher MSRP), they can squeeze a few more bucks out of it overall. I'm sure they ran the numbers to justify this practice, but I don't like it. I DO like having a choice when ordering a vehicle, a choice you don't get with the all-or-nothing packages some other manufacturers produce. But, I also expect certain things to be standard as well, especially things like ABS. The Bonneville SSEi, which is their "flagship" model (except Pontiac does not treat it with such reverence) lost some significant features that IMHO should be standard in the top-of-the-line sedan. HUD and the trunk accessory kit are two features that are now extra-cost options.
The vibrating mirror on the Alero is typical what I dislike most about GM. Overall, the engineering is fine, but there is always a weak point in the quality of the parts that ruins it all. For example, the motor for the power mirror will probably last the life of the car, but the plastic pieces that connect the motor to the mirror itself will fail prematurely, and guess what? You have to replace the WHOLE unit! The mirror vibrates because it is mounted on nylon posts that are too flimsy to hold it steady.
evandro : At least they are not major safety items though not desirable either. I hope ABS and 4-wheel discs are standard again on the next generation Grand Am which sounds like it will be a very nice car. To sell performance you really need to have the goods.
mlm4 : I have seen no such flaws on my car but it could be that the part you speak of was faulty from an outside supplier. Is it just people with power mirrors that have the vibration issue?
On the several GM vehicles I have owned with power mirrors, the design usually involves the mirror mounted to a gimbal that allows it to rotate up/down/right/left. The motor drives two set screws in and out for the up/down and left/right motions, or the motor drives a set of nylon gears. The set screws are attached to the mirror either with a somewhat flexible nylon fastener or simply by contact against spring-applied pressure. In other words, there is not much substance in the materials that hold the mirror in position, allowing it to vibrate more easily than the non-powered models, which are more rigidly mounted. (The non-powered mirror also uses a gimble mount, but it requires a fair amount of force to move the mirror. The power mirror is more loosely mounted so as not to put too much resistance on the motor. There, the gimble itself is not enough to hold the mirror in position, it only acts as a pivot point for the mirror.)
On my Bonneville, both side mirrors vibrate a little bit mostly as low frequency noise is transmitted from the car body (as opposed to being buffetted by the wind), but not enough to bother me. On my Tahoe (also with dual power mirrors), only the driver side mirror vibrates, and that is due to the wind and a very large surface area (and a no-so-aerodynamic housing design).
I would presume that the quality of the parts varies even from the same supplier, but my contention is that it is poor quality materials (and to some extent bad design) that cause these problems. If your mirrors don't vibrate, consider yourself fortunate.
I can't say for the Alero, but the mirrors on my Intrigue do not vibrate. According to an insert in the 2002 Alero brochure, models built after a certain date will have a non springaway mirror to reduce "operating noise."
Took my 2000 GL to the dealer today for the dreaded front end noise. They did not have the lubrication kit in stock today so it's back to the dealer tomorrow for IS lubrication. I only have 24,000 miles on the unit but the 36 months is about up. But will be done under warranty.
Reportedly the lubrication of the IS with the heavier grease has been successful to date with only a couple of cases where they had waited too long before the fix and the units had worn.
GM promotes the Dex cool for 100,000 miles use, but the service manager said that the PH goes acidic long before that and requires coolant flush and replacement. At $750.00 or so to replace the water pump on the 2.4 liter engine, I'll be checking the coolant Ph and changing out when it goes below 7.
2 Questions: What is the intermediate shaft? I am not familiar with that component.
Why is it so expensive to replace the water pump? Is it the labor, due to the many parts that need removed to get to it? It has been a long time since I had to work on a water pump, but it used to be a fairly simple, inexpensive repair.
The intermediate shaft is a short splined shaft with a universal joint on one or both ends connecting the steering column to the steering rack. It has a weakness with the Delphi magna steer power steering. My Alero is the GL with magna steer. I understand that the entry level GX does not have this wonderful speed sensing steering. How I wish I had the base steering. That is my opinion, and I could be wrong.
The water pump is down on the bottom of the engine and driven by the cam chain. Replacement requires removing things like engine mount, cam chain cover, cam chain, etc, etc. just a lot of bolt twisting. Of course we must keep the twin cam timing. I don't have a service manual yet. I was just wondering if the counter rotating shaft is driven by the cam chain also. But with luck and coolant change the mtbf should be around a 100,000 miles.
It has always been my understanding that the Alero doesn't have magnasteer, regardless of trim level. From what I have read, magnasteer is only on "full size" GM's (i.e.: Intrigue, Grand Prix, etc.). I believe the only difference in steering systems used on the Alero is that GL and GLS trims have speed-sensing variable assist, while GX has non-variable PS. Hope this helps.
You don't have to remove the timing chain when replacing the water pump on the Quad 4, but it's recommended to remove the cover and remove the tensioner so there's enough slack in the chain to release the pump drive gear. GM makes a special fixture to hold the chain to the cam gears so it doesn't move while slack. You can do the job without it if your careful. The front engine mount wishbone will need removal. The worst thing is the lack of access to all these parts. There's very little room, and it's a job that is better avoided if possible.
You are correct! I checked my 02 Alero brochure and it's just variable assist. I didn't pay much attention to it as we bought a GX which has your standard power assist steering set up.
The dealer lubricated the intermediate shaft this AM. The steering knock, (static with slight oscillations of the steering wheel) is still present. It did seem to stop the clunk over uneven road surface at low speed. The service manager said they all have the knock in the rack gears. An Impala sitting in the service area had the knock with slight steering wheel back and forth motion. Welcome to GM!
GM products have a long service life because you can't tell when they are worn out. They knock shake, vibrate, feel loose, and squeak from day one instead of being like a quality vehicle where these noises come on after 200,000 miles or so. The best of four GM products we own is my wife's 77 El Camino.
Coonhound: Yes, welcome to GM ownership - you get familiar with clunks, shudders, and rattles from the start. It's hard to determine when parts are actually worn out if they are sloppy and noisy right off the assembly line. Toyota engineers would be fired for allowing some of the things that GM accepts as "...well, they all do that...." But I can't just slam GM for things like this, since Ford & Chrysler have a way to go to match the solid feel of import brand rivals.
Like so many people with 2000 Aleros, I also had a problem with the rotors. I complained of really bad vibration on the steering wheel and was told the rotors would be machined at GM's expense and that I needed new front brakes. I had approximately 45,000 KMS on my car at that time.
My question is: Did the front brakes wear prematurely? If so, would the defective rotors have caused the premature wear of the front brakes? Should I go after GM to cover all or part of the cost of the front brakes (and labour)??
Continuing saga: I took my 2000 Alero to a GM dealer for a second opinion on the steering noise. The front end mechanic checked it out and said that both inner tie rod ends are loose and the gear is leaking oil. Further the gear assy. should have been replaced. This was not a Oldsmobile dealership.
I called my Oldsmobile dealer and am going back tomorrow, but probably not going to get any satisfaction. The service manager says that they are all like that.
When my old 87 LeBaron sounded like this does, I replaced the steering rack (gear) with a rebuilt unit from Pep Boys and the noise was completely gone after that.
GM installs worn out components at assembly??? Sadly, and apparently they do.
I raised up the car and inspected underneath, and I could feel slack in the right hand side inner tie rod end. Not good with only 24,000 miles on the vehicle.
I looked at 2000 and up Toyotas and the steering doesn't knock and clunk, but the price of one is about the price of two Aleros, so shake rattle and roll it is.
Comments
mlm4, Grand Am GTs have four wheel discs and even SE models with the rear drums probably still have the same front discs. To me, rotors are not a major problem. Sure it's annoying, but as someone else mentioned, I'd get a good set of aftermarket rotors and be done with it. To me, major problems are things like engine, transmission, or suspension/chassis problems.
Regards,
mcrrt
My grinding noise is finally fixed. The grinding noise is very common in all Alero's and Grand ams with the 16 inch Aluminum wheels and the Goodyear Eagle RSA and LS tires. Oldsmobile put these tires on to make the car more sporty and attractive, but apparently it was not designed for these tires in conjunction with the 16 inch rims. In order to stop the grinding noise you must inflate your tires to the MAX PSI which I believe is 44. Amazingly the grinding noise will go away. The following is a direct quote from an Oldsmobile maintenance announcement:
"The {grinding}condition may be caused by raised ribs on the tire sidewall contacting the rim flange and creating an audible noise during vehicle cornering maneuvers. The rubbing action may cause minor cosmetic chafing on the rim flange, but will have no negative affect on the tire/wheel performance or durability"
If anyone has any further questions please place a posting and I will be happy to elaborate. If you have the grinding noise try MAX inflating your tires and hopefully the noise will go away.
ryanroseberry : Interesting. I'm sure the OEM rotors are not the best on the market, but I'm not convinced they are as bad as your mechanic says.
The cause of the rotor warping tells a lot. They were fine for many thousands of miles until I had to heavily brake from above 70 mph. Right after that I could tell the rotors were warped. It is obvious that the rotors couldn't take the heat input rate. Whether it was the material or the thickness or a combination, it doesn't matter. They weren't up to the task, period.
:^/Running tires that are good at 30 psi up at 44 psi is bad news. Your contact patch will be all hosed up with the attendant bad (scary) handling and they will ride like rocks. I would also advise caution about their wet road grip. Tell us if they don't slide around.
My advise is save yourself a lot of aggravation and replace the tires. They obviously aren't worth keeping and they sure sound like a safety problem.
Did you see my earlier posts where I had to dump the BFGs at 32000 miles because they were making all sorts of road rumble? Some people think it was a bad set since they had good experiences with them. No other Alero owners have reported this. But they are history anyway.
As for the rotors, hopefully mine last. Who knows, I'm not going to stay up nights worrying about it. If they do go at some point I will have after market ones installed.
Still love our Alero. The Ecotec is just amazing.
Anyway, the same mechanic did an oil change and rotated my tires. Strangly enough, the noise went away for the most part. I believe that an increase in air pressure helped to almost eliminate the noise.
Surely new tires would probably eliminate the noise entirely, but the short term answer is to increase air pressure.
And on a third note, I do think they put less than adequate rotors on the vehicle. I think many users have a serious complaint with the warping rotors that GM should address.
Best of luck to all! I hope to sell my '00 Alero with 55K miles next year.
Please feed me back on the manual transmission of the Alero.
I just had my 2002 Alero six weeks ago. I picked the manual transmission mostly for the fun of driving but also for the end of season deals. I have driven manual transmission for few years but my last car was automatic. At the beginning, shifting particularly to first or second gears was not fully smooth meaning I have to push the stick a little harder and the timing is not perfect for those two gears. I attributed that to a new car and that I have driven an automatic car for the past few years. Today after six weeks and about 1500 miles I still feel something is not right. Shifting to first or second gear is not as smooth as it is for the third gear from second gear, say, clutch is a little touchy meaning the power is not transmitted very smoothly while in the first gear, I have to be very careful and watch for the exact position of the clutch or the car will stop. Again, I used a manual transmission for few years and feel that is not right. Last week I tested a Camry and an Accord with manual transmission and they were both smother than the Alero, particularly for the first gear operations. I understand every manual transmission can be different from the others but any suggestions?
Magdy
infinia : You have one incompetent garage working on your car. Have you ever tried bringing it somewhere else?
One thing to note about Alero...you need less accelerator pressure than on some cars due to the higher low-end torque. I also had this problem with my Pickup truck several years ago, when trying to shift smoothly into 1st.
Depending on how much difficulty you are having, I'd give it some more time to break in. Otherwise, Dindak is right. Good luck with your Alero. Question: What color and model did you get?
It's amazing that it's not like this everywhere. Make all the difference in the world.
Let us know if you ever find resolution to your problem.
Regards.
<rant>Bob Lutz said that he was going to do that over a year ago...
:^(And I'm not happy with it!I bought my Alero BECAUSE of the richer standard equipment!
IMO, it's a misguided strategy. He's wondering why people don't buy GM, prefering in some cases imports, looks at the price and at the standard features lists and thinks that people prefer to personalize the cars they buy. Well, the fact is that most imports have neither ABS nor alloy wheels, so I believe that it's not why they buy them.
What I think will actually happen is that people will defect GM. He's not asking the right question: why are people buying GM cars?
</rant>Just glad I bought an 02. I did notice the GLS Alero still has 4 wheel discs though.
8^O:^(The vibrating mirror on the Alero is typical what I dislike most about GM. Overall, the engineering is fine, but there is always a weak point in the quality of the parts that ruins it all. For example, the motor for the power mirror will probably last the life of the car, but the plastic pieces that connect the motor to the mirror itself will fail prematurely, and guess what? You have to replace the WHOLE unit! The mirror vibrates because it is mounted on nylon posts that are too flimsy to hold it steady.
mlm4 : I have seen no such flaws on my car but it could be that the part you speak of was faulty from an outside supplier. Is it just people with power mirrors that have the vibration issue?
On the several GM vehicles I have owned with power mirrors, the design usually involves the mirror mounted to a gimbal that allows it to rotate up/down/right/left. The motor drives two set screws in and out for the up/down and left/right motions, or the motor drives a set of nylon gears. The set screws are attached to the mirror either with a somewhat flexible nylon fastener or simply by contact against spring-applied pressure. In other words, there is not much substance in the materials that hold the mirror in position, allowing it to vibrate more easily than the non-powered models, which are more rigidly mounted. (The non-powered mirror also uses a gimble mount, but it requires a fair amount of force to move the mirror. The power mirror is more loosely mounted so as not to put too much resistance on the motor. There, the gimble itself is not enough to hold the mirror in position, it only acts as a pivot point for the mirror.)
On my Bonneville, both side mirrors vibrate a little bit mostly as low frequency noise is transmitted from the car body (as opposed to being buffetted by the wind), but not enough to bother me. On my Tahoe (also with dual power mirrors), only the driver side mirror vibrates, and that is due to the wind and a very large surface area (and a no-so-aerodynamic housing design).
I would presume that the quality of the parts varies even from the same supplier, but my contention is that it is poor quality materials (and to some extent bad design) that cause these problems. If your mirrors don't vibrate, consider yourself fortunate.
I have never heard of this issue anywhere but in the Alero forum.
Reportedly the lubrication of the IS with the heavier grease has been successful to date with only a couple of cases where they had waited too long before the fix and the units had worn.
GM promotes the Dex cool for 100,000 miles use, but the service manager said that the PH goes acidic long before that and requires coolant flush and replacement. At $750.00 or so to replace the water pump on the 2.4 liter engine, I'll be checking the coolant Ph and changing out when it goes below 7.
What is the intermediate shaft? I am not familiar with that component.
Why is it so expensive to replace the water pump? Is it the labor, due to the many parts that need removed to get to it? It has been a long time since I had to work on a water pump, but it used to be a fairly simple, inexpensive repair.
The water pump is down on the bottom of the engine and driven by the cam chain. Replacement requires removing things like engine mount, cam chain cover, cam chain, etc, etc. just a lot of bolt twisting. Of course we must keep the twin cam timing. I don't have a service manual yet. I was just wondering if the counter rotating shaft is driven by the cam chain also. But with luck and coolant change the mtbf should be around a 100,000 miles.
Regards,
mcrrt
GM products have a long service life because you can't tell when they are worn out. They knock shake, vibrate, feel loose, and squeak from day one instead of being like a quality vehicle where these noises come on after 200,000 miles or so. The best of four GM products we own is my wife's 77 El Camino.
Burdawg: Thanks for the water pump input.
My question is: Did the front brakes wear prematurely? If so, would the defective rotors have caused the premature wear of the front brakes? Should I go after GM to cover all or part of the cost of the front brakes (and labour)??
Ya, Toyota engineers just better with sludge problems in their engines.
rebrab : If you do a lot of city driving, 45K is not really premature for brake pads. Is this the case?
I called my Oldsmobile dealer and am going back tomorrow, but probably not going to get any satisfaction. The service manager says that they are all like that.
When my old 87 LeBaron sounded like this does, I replaced the steering rack (gear) with a rebuilt unit from Pep Boys and the noise was completely gone after that.
GM installs worn out components at assembly???
Sadly, and apparently they do.
I raised up the car and inspected underneath, and I could feel slack in the right hand side inner tie rod end. Not good with only 24,000 miles on the vehicle.
I looked at 2000 and up Toyotas and the steering doesn't knock and clunk, but the price of one is about the price of two Aleros, so shake rattle and roll it is.