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Comments
Although only Honda knows for sure, based on past 5 year model cycles, the Accord won't get its styling "refresh" until the 4th year of this generation, which would be 2006.
In contrast, I shopped a Chrysler 300M before buying my 04 Accord LX and was told the man in charge of the list of future cars was new on the job and wasn't sure what they would be receiving. It was such a fabricated story I almost laughed out loud. I don't think car dealerships have any idea of how astonishingly ridiculous they look to any halfway discerning customer when they come up with such evasions. They (and the Honda dealers I shopped were not immune from this) fish around to see if you really are stupid, then if you're not, they reluctantly, step by step, work their way up to an intelligent deal. That's a generalization, of course, but it fits quite a few of the sales situations I've been in during more than 40 years of buying cars, including a range of American and Japanese dealerships.
One really sad ploy occurred with my Honda dealer as we were about to close the deal. She tried to confuse me by putting down the figures in a different way, coming out with a cash difference on the trade of $1,000 more than we had just agreed to. I simply restated what we had agreed was the price on their car and on my trade, and the cash difference. She said, "Hmmmm," looked at her figures again, and finally got it right. One key, to me, is having my own tablet and pen to keep track of the figures so that they make sense to me. If you try to do this in your head, you will probably get confused.
I don't any have problem with car salespeople pushing for the best deal for them -- they're in business to make money, as am I, and I'm basically on their side, and I tell them that. However, the evasions and attempts to be deceptive are what taint the process. I treasure the few sales reps I've dealt with who avoid that as much as possible.
Regarding the mileage....this is really the least of my concerns. It had 150 miles on it, and I understand where they came from. No, bolivar, I didn't think it was going to fly to me. The sarcasm isn't really necessary. They already had the car. They had traded for it before I even came into the picture....please, make sure you have your facts in order before you go on the offensive!
The bumper...again, not a real worry to me. I know it'll be fixed, because I have it in writing. All I was saying is that 1. I want a new from the factory bumper, and 2. I refuse to have that dealership repair it. It'll be repaired at a place of my choice. There's no way I'd let that dealership touch this car again.
FYI there was no "dealer add-on window sticker". This is another complaint I had. I believe it's law that it must be on the vehicle. I don't believe the door edge guards are a Honda product. If they were, it'd take about 2 seconds to pop them off the doors. No, these are some aftermarket things that appear to be applied with an adhesive. That makes it a little less easy to just pop off. I would like paint to remain on the edges of my doors!
I'm not going to verbally assult the elderly lady that struck my vehicle as your sarcastically sugessted. I'm happy that she came to me and admitted to me what happened. In today's society, many people would've just drove off. I know her insurance will take care of it completely...now the question is when they're going to come look at it. It's been nearly a week and nobody yet!
I've relaxed now, knowing that this is a great vehicle and that all my problems WILL be fixed eventually. I do take offense at those who imply that I was not prepared before purchasing this vehicle. Quite the contrary. I did research for months before making this purchase, reading customer reviews, message boards such as this one, taking multiple test drives, etc. I just hope that none of you are ever involved in situation(s) like these. If you are, the BBB is your best bet. It seems to me like Honda won't do squat to resolve this situation except send an email to the dealership saying that they had received a complaint. They said there was nothing they could do when I told them I refused to let this dealership repair my vehicle that they damaged. Whatever, the owner of the dealership is a franchisee. Last I checked, the franchisor could tell them to do whatever. Anyway, it'll be resolved sometime.
Thanks for responding to my posts and for your support (well, most of you).
That is how long it would take to get one from the factory isn't it? According to our experts here. Why is that a lie?
"In fact, he had one less than 6 days later. "
How do you know that he knew this fact at the very moment you and he were having this conversation? He could have checked sure, but you didn't ask hime to do that. Is this still a lie?
Also, ISell said that dealerships can't "order" vehicles from the factory as the salesman informed me.
The technical wording is a matter or semantics. He may have assumed you as the lay person would not understand the difference between a custom factory order and placing a request for a specfic allocation or trading an allocated vehicle with another dealership. A third lie?
"Regarding the mileage....this is really the least of my concerns."
You didn't sound that way several posts ago...
"The bumper...again, not a real worry to me. "
Check your posts back from the beginning. Not the same story you are telling now. Is this a lie?
"FYI there was no "dealer add-on window sticker". This is another complaint I had. I believe it's law that it must be on the vehicle."
How much extra did you pay for these add-ons? You should have gotten that in writing prior to purchase or removed if you didn't like it.
".... the BBB is your best bet. It seems to me like Honda won't do squat to resolve this situation except send an email to the dealership saying that they had received a complaint."
The BBB is paid for by the very businesses that they track complaints on. So they are a resource for you to use but they have a vested interest in keeping the records of their paying business partners clean.
What exactly do you expect Honda North America to do? And Why? You signed the dotted line to get the car that you didn't want. The old lady has nothing to do with Honda. The dealership employee that banged up your bumper also is not a Honda problem.
2. The mileage doesn't bother me as much now because I know the facts. They traded with another dealer who happens to be 125 miles away. Explainable. Is this OK? Thanks for your approval.
3. The bumper WILL be fixed to my approval. This means that a new one will be ordered, and painted by another dealership.
4. Replying to bolivar's assertment that there was a sticker on the vehicle listing the dealer added options and their prices. There wasn't. The price I paid was all inclusive. There wasn't anything on the paperwork like "$60 for door edge guards, $150 for pin stripes".
5. Honda should care. The owner of the dealership and the kid who damaged my vehicle are representatives of Honda. It reflects poorly on them because their franchisees are arrogant (this one anyway). I think Honda can make this or any other dealership do what they say. They tell them how many cars their getting each year, and in what colors, so why can't they tell them that they're going to pay for my vehicle to be repaired elsewhere? I would assume that's part of the franchise agreement: that Honda can shut you down at any time, and you'll do what they tell you. Sort of like McDonalds. They tell you you're going to use cups with McDonalds logo on them, not some generic Solo cup.
6. The BBB: You're right. It's in their best interest to keep organizations records clean. That's why most things get resolved in a satisfactory manner: To make the consumer happy, and to have a good comment in the organizations record.
Again, I appreciate your input, even if you disagree with me. It sometimes helps to see both sides of the story.
My dealer didn't try any hijinks, but obviously some do, so it's best to know exactly what you're getting yourself into before you sign.
I just hope that a month from now you'll forget about the rocky start!
hji: Understand, as I stated above, that I am not a lawyer, but you might want to check out small claims court. In some states a corporation (such as the dealer undoubtedly is) would be required to be represented by an attorney in any small claims court action. That will certainly cost them much more than the $150 you seek for justice. If you are mad enough, don't mind the hassle of finding out what it takes, and pursue a small claims court filing; you might find the dealer only too eager to give you your money back after they receive the summons! ;-) (They also might surprise you with their amiable response; many such business people consider pushing hard as just being part of the game and do not take it personally. Shucks, they might even admire you for it!) Good luck.
Barry S.
If I was in your situation, I would feel exactly the same way you do.
You seem to be handling the situation as well as can be expected, and I wish you the best on your repair. I hope your ownership experience improves dramatically from this point.
Honda cannot just tell them what to do or just shut them down. Both sides have to follow the conditions set out in their contract.
I had no intention to pick on anyone. My only point is that looking to Honda corporate to do much in the way of policing their dealers is pretty much another exercise in frustration. It seems there is enough frustration already being experienced without "tilting at windmills."
The auto dealer maintains a much greater level of autonomy than a franchisee. Yes the manufacturer exerts some level of pressure regarding minimum inventory and allocation but the relationship is much more independent.
As you said: "My only point is that looking to Honda corporate to do much in the way of policing their dealers is pretty much another exercise in frustration." which is my point - the manufacturer can do little to punish a dealer unless the dealer is in gross violation of its contract.
Not very long ago, buying a car for me was an event almost in the magnitude of buying a house (actually it may still be, because buying a car is a lot more enjoyable).
Case in point: as early as July 1997 (and not as internet-active then), the Businessweek article on the 6th gen Accord was the first thing I read on that mag. My sons and wife were often the unwilling audience for my thoughts and opinions of the car.
Finally, Sep 97 came and we were at the car dealership (Gwinnett Place Honda in metro Atlanta, biggest in SE), waiting eagerly after the pre-delivery prep to drive home the best and the newest.
But wait, they had drilled holes in the front bumper for a license plate holder, something you don't need in rear-plate-only Georgia, to secure of course the dealer's label plate.
I complained, because the car didn't have the holes when I picked it off the lot, and the dealer complied by replacing my bumper with one that came from a same-color car in the lot.
What I learned: if possible, buy from a volume dealer - because their prices are often better to start with, and they have more flexibility to deal with customer issues.
Let me guess, "if we order a car, or designate destination on a particular model, it'll be 60-90 days"....but then after doing a dealer locate, they had one in a week.
What's the problem here?
TEAM Honda in Lithia Springs is kinda soso. I don't trust the service center there at all.
Don't you just love attorneys who think of these loopholes to screw the consumer?
I felt if they didn't pay me to advertise their dealership, I don't drive a rolling billboard.
BTW: saw a trailer with four sides of lighted, revolving billboards being towed around town during rushhouse last Friday. It rotated messages just like the changing billboards along a highway. What a distraction because of the lighting and the changing messages...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It worked out well for me though, as my dealer had not affixed any other advertising on my recently-purchases Yukon XL and then had to remove the non-complying license plate frame as well. Result is a pristine paint job and no unwelcome advertising as I drive (Even so, I'm not ashamed to say that the dealer is Ewing GMC/Buick/Pontiac in Plano, TX. They have treated me very well so far.)
Sometines when I see a new car somebody bought at work you see the dealers little paper advertisement in the middle of the liscence plate and the next day you don't see it. I guess the owners just take the little card board paper out of the middle of the liscence plate.
There is a recall, but Honda won't cover me because only half the VINs for 1999 are covered! Talk about poor customer service!
Honda only started the re call because of complaints to the NHTSA.
Why can't Honda Corporate do the right thing and fix this manufacturing defect? It could be dangerous.
If your VIN is not covered it isn't because Honda is being cheap, the part in your car is not in need of repair.
Sox, I am guessing you are a Honda Corporate employee?
If your dealer is telling you that your ignition is bad, yet your VIN is not in the range, then your either your ignition problem either has nothing to do with the recall or he/she is trying to trick you into paying for some maintenance you do not need.
Have you tried pulling your key out with the car in drive?
I do own an Accord, in fact my '99 had the recall you are referring to. And while I cannot state this as fact without knowing your VIN and looking up the recall notice, my point is that the reason only certain VINs are covered for a given recall is because they are the only cars that the "faulty" part in question was installed. While all Accords will have an igntion switch, not all of these were made by the same vendor and/or were from the same lot # shown to have the problem.
If your VIN is not covered, yet the same part is defective, either the problem with your switch is different than that covered by the recall, or Honda has a problem with more switches than they are acknowledging. If the problem with your switch is the same cause/effect as the recall, contact Honda and scream bloody murder. I am on your side in this regard. However, if the defect in your switch is not the same as that of the recall, then I think it just has to be considered bad luck unless you can show this is cropping up consistently in other vehicles.
I've been driving for almost 35 years now and not once in all that time have I snagged anything on the keys in the ignition, hit it with any part of my body in such a way as might potentially dislodge the key from the ignition, nor in any other way had anything whatever happen that could in my wildest imaginings dislodge the key from the ignition.
Are attorneys having so much trouble earning income that they are now actively attempting stupid things to sue about? Or is it just that we have, as a society, lost so much of our sense of personal responsibility that anything and everything idiotic that might cross our thoughtless "minds" to do must be something that "they" are required to protect us from?!?
Soon to be seen on kitchen knives: "WARNING! poking this utensil into your eye might cause blindness or death!" Sheesh....
My congratulations to you. You sound like a perfect human being.
Us mortals do make mistakes and leave the car in Neutral when it should be in Park. A bad accident can result if the car rolls downhill.
I have a bad opinion of Honda Corporate. They are being shortminded in not covering the entire VIN run. I have put in a official complaint with the NHTSA regarding this. If enough people do likewise, Honda will have to expand the recall.
This could cause serious damage if you have a 99 or 98 Accord.
It sounds silly to say it maybe, but it's like sailing. You know that, if you fall off the boat, you will very likely die. So, what do you do? Live in terror of falling off the boat? Never move unless safety-wired to the boat? Maybe. But the best solution is to use that knowledge and fear to learn never to fall off the boat! Hang on and think at all times. The alternative could be death, so it's worth the effort.
The same can be said for learning not to fall asleep at the wheel and, yes, to put the car into Park and engage the parking brake each and every time you plan on leaving the vehicle.
I honestly don't mean to sound condescending, but listen, those who find this too difficult to manage are likely not to have to worry about such things any more....
(relax, mitch, I'm not attacking you).
This society has become too sue happy. I'm not sure I think this Honda recall is completely frivolous, but we have all seen our share of ridiculous warnings.
plastic bag: Do not place over head?!
anti-moisture, granular, packing material: do not eat?! (gee it looks so tasty!)
another snowy day, 03 EX V6 Accord sailed right through.
Please help me try to understand your position.
How can I presume that my vehicle should be included in a recall if the manufacturer of the vehicle maintains incredibly detailed computerized database records that indicate that my particular vehicle was NOT manufactured with a recallable component?
The Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) is just the means of tracking the build history of a specific vehicle. If the VIN indicates that the vehicle was painted red at the factory, why would I suspect that it might be blue? That just doesn't make sense. Same thing with the part that you SUSPECT may be faulty. It's not a defect just because one of us laymen THINK that it MAY be a defect.
And no, before you ask, I have no affiliation with any manufacturer or dealer.
If enough people complain to the NHTSA, Honda will be forced to expand the recall .
The people on this board have been quite insensitive regarding this serious safety issue. Perhaps one of your children will be run over by a car that is rolling downhill because of a ignition interlock defect. Maybe then you will show some concern?
1. There is a recall for the ignition.
2. I will make a point to watch out for stray Accords rolling downhill when my son is born in a couple of months.
3. The recall was voluntary, not something Honda was forced into.
http://www.s2ki.com/user/content/view/full/368
Notice that out of 800,000 Accords sold between 98-99 there have been only 3 incidents.
I did it a couple times because the engine was so quiet and I forgot I already started the car before I got out of the car and came back in.
The same reason could apply to someone who tried to pull the key out of the ignition while the engine was on.
One I would like to add is this: Are people with manual transmissions endangering lives? They can also leave the car in neutral and remove the key. The KEY is to pay attention.
However, I think it is necessary to make a recall on all items that were improperly designed and could have an effect on safety.
Mitch, what exactly has the dealership said is wrong with your ignition switch? Have you tried to remove your key without returning to park? How did the dealership discover you had a problem (what led you to have them evaluate your car)? Are their technicians the ones who told you that you have the same problem but it isn't covered under the recall?
My Trailblazer's recall was because the parking pawl would not engage fully in park, so you could roll in park... =oP
A responsible company would want to do that. But I suspect a mandatory recall was on the way. Some TV publicity would help that along.
"Notice that out of 800,000 Accords sold between 98-99 there have been only 3 incidents."
That was at the date of the report you linked to.
This is wear problem due to poor design; how many more will and already have happened. But then if it's not my car, do I really care what happens to others? Yes...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Honda Corporate shirt said he would throw in the lock parts for free, but would charge me $150 for labor, "because I hadn't done my oil changes at the dealer" and wasn't entitled to any more than that.
I am pretty confident that the recall will expand as soon as more people are aware of the problem and complain to the NHTSA. If someone gets injured in the meantime and sues Honda, so be it . .