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This is like falling off a log, really. If I can do it, anymore reading this thread can do it.
I guess you are back with the negative responses. I can understand why people are reluctant to take a car into the dealer, most of them are trying to cheat the customer anyway. You should try a diplomacy course sometime, you always seem to chide the people on this board needing help.
I have been on Edmunds for about a year now and have read many forums, including Honda, Toyota, Lexus, etc. What upsets me is when someone whose responses I have read many times have something go wrong with their vehicle. Please keep us informed with any updates. I was wondering, why if so many of these Accord have Tranny problems, does it make sense to replace it with same design, why not redesign them and then replace them. Honda by now must know what is going wrong with there Tranny's.
Reading these posts over time, Isell is one of the more pleasant. Thin skin doesn't help one get good info. sometimes. Maybe a more robust sense of humor is what is needed. Anyway, he is right.
I just got back from the Corolla problem board where someone, in good faith but with a lot of naivete, wants to know why their car, with over 100k miles on the clock, suddenly became "noisy" at speed. Huh? How in the world do you begin to help there, except to advise them to get a professional opinion?
In other words, since removing the mud guards, it's as if they were never there in the first place? I know this sounds silly -- but with cars you only get to buy one! No one would allow me to return or exchange my car after discovering minor defects as a result of removing mud guards! Thanks.
So I think it's normal.
http://hondanews.com/CatID2003?mid=2004062848444&mime=asc
A poster comes to this forum asking for help and suggestions because their 14 year old Accord "sometimes" won't start. They went on to say they are uncomfortable taking it too far from home.
Although I'm no mechanic/technican, my experience in things auto related is considerable.
I have learned that problems like this do not go away usually. They usually are warning signs, and the problems usually worsen.
That Accord is waving yellow flags and one of these days or nights, at the worst possible time, it could fail to start totally.
None of us, even a trained technician could do anything from our keyboards but guess as to what "might" be causing the problem.
It could be something very minor or maybe something more involved. None of us know.
That is why I suggested taking it to a dealer or other (I'll add now) QUALIFIED shop to find out what's up.
If I still need a "diplomacy course" so be it!
I would agree with the statement in your question that my mud flap removal experience left my car looking "as if they were never there in the first place." No issues of noise, screws not going back in tightly, etc. I don't recall the metal fasteners "snakehair" (interesting handle) mentions, but they may have been there. I don't recall having leftover screws, and the ones I put back in hold the wheel well liner in place just as it was it done at the factory, I assume. Yes, there was dirt and grim under the flaps, which I cleaned with a damp paper towel.
Of course (not to give you any further concern), I have no idea if every dealer installs these things the same way. You might just ask the dealer the same questions you're asking me.
I like the car's appearance better without them, but that's just my take on it.
Well, my Honda service department today checked out the whirring noise I've described previously that seems to be similar to yours, and the result is....inconclusive.
The service manager hears the noise. He didn't have a solution, but said he believes it's coming from the transmission. He's going to do some research on it and drive some other cars, and get back to me on it.
While we were discussing it in his office, he pulled up a list of issues on his computer, and one of them was titled "AT Whine," or Automatic Transmission Whine. The short writeup says, before installing a "reman" (Honda shorthand for remanufactured) transmission, to be sure it's not wind noise, tire noise, and a few other things. So, the implication is that if it's a transmission whine, the solution is to install another transmission. Of course, this leaves me in the dark as to what's actually causing the problem --is it a design defect or was mine just built poorly, etc. I'm just naturally curious about this, not to mention that I have my money invested here.
I obviously don't know exactly where all this is heading, but it's not a road I imagined I would be traveling down with a brand new Accord, renowned for bullet-proof reliability and a reputation for extremely high build quality. This is my first Honda, by the way.
Wish I could be more conclusive, but I will post further developments.
BTW -- If you wind up having this checked out as I did, you may have to be persistent to get anywhere. When the service advisor first called me at work, the message was that the noise was judged to be normal by the service manager and the shop foreman, and that they had been in touch with Honda that day via some kind of tech helpline and Honda corporate concurred that it was normal. So that sounded like the game was over -- just get used to the noise.
To get past this, when I went to pick up the car after work, the service manager and I went for a ride while I demonstrated the noise to him. (The service advisor had actually offered this option earlier on the phone, so give them credit for that.) He immediately said he heard the noise. During this ride with me, he said he had not heard the noise on his earlier ride. So I was getting contradictory information from the advisor and the manager.
So, again, it may require some persistence on your part.
One more thing -- he asked me to drive in third gear at 45 mph to see if this made a difference. He thought the noise went away, I wasn't sure. But back in drive, which would be 5th at 45 mph, the noise persisted. Have you tried 3rd gear at that speed?
As does mine, at just over 17k miles (as always, knock on wood!).
I would suggest that we not overreact to this news, since Honda is being proactive about nipping this in the bud, and it sounds like the most common solution is an inspection and minor modification.
This is dramatically different from the gen 6 transmission problem, when transmissions were exhibiting symptoms considerably before the time that Honda actually admitted that there was a problem. And there were no steps that one could take to prevent the issue from happening... if it were to happen, you wouldn't know about it until the first symptoms appeared, which meant you needed a transmission replacement.
With this recall, Honda is attempting to eliminate the cause of the condition and prevent problems and failures, rather than simply reacting if symptoms of a problem appear.
Stop and go in a traffic jam for a prolonged period of time?
I haven't done that with my 03EXV6 yet.
The car still performs flawlessly after a year and 8 months.
Yeah, knock on wood.
Will let you all know if I receive any mail regarding about the recall.
I believed you, talon95, until reading the very recent recall on the V6 transmissions, on, sadly, generation 7 Accords. I was and perhaps am still planning on buying one this week (six cylinder, auto). I am not sure if all recent six cylinder models are affected, and even if, whether or not the recall will be effective in completely resolving whatever issue might have come up.
So, sadly it seems, the six cylinders are still less reliable than the 4's, at least as far as transmission quality is concerned. However, things might change, and this recall might be more than we're making it out to be. At least I hope so. The best case is that Honda did over-react in an attempt not to cause fear so much, but instead hoping to "nip this in the bud" before it really does or could become a problem.
Does this make me re-think my purchase decision as far as whether I buy a 6 vs. a 4? It sure does. But will it be enough to sway me? Probably not. Until I hear otherwise, I am taking the optimistic view that this is probably more than we're making it out to be, and that with the recall, Honda will have prevented whatever problem could have been. Besides, I am going to purchase the Honda Care extended warranty!
these days, no car mfgr is better than the next. they all use Hyundai robots to assemble the cars. all product planning and design is rushed, and all parts are outsourced to the same group of mfgrs.
you are left with getting a car that "moves" you. just be ready to use the warranty.
you know VW is LOVING that press release about Honda. i see Passat sales moving up, up, up!
I ask again...If you don't like the way Honda does things, what other car builder builds the perfect $18,000 - $25,000 sedan. Good luck.
Well, when I said it, it was true, at far as the knowledge of the general public was concerned. General public includes me. That statement was accurate to the best of my knowledge... I certainly wasn't trying to mislead anyone. I was as surprised as everyone else when I saw the press release today.
"So, sadly it seems, the six cylinders are still less reliable than the 4's, at least as far as transmission quality is concerned."
Given than an Edmund's member who owns a 2003 Accord 4-cyl automatic recently revealed that he has been told that the transmission in his car must be replaced, it's difficult to say this with certainty. We don't yet know what prompted the decision to replace the transmission, so it could be an isolated incident or it could be a transmission issue with 4-cyl models coming to light. Hopefully the latter isn't the case. But at this point, at least the V6 transmission recall reflects a recognized potential issue that can be remedied before it becomes a real issue in most cases.
Either way, it appears that Honda is providing the necessary support.
Sorry, I don't know... I haven't seen anything more than you have... just the press release.
http://www.distantcreations.com/accordipod/
messy, you have to come in at the back of the head unit with a $100 cable assembly.
but, i think a large amount of Honda buyers buy Hondas for one reason only. reliability. sure, lots of buyers LOVE Hondas, period. but a lot of people LOVE VW's, but shy away because the Accord is more reliable, and they don't want to feel dumb while their VW is in the shop. now those VW's drivers don't have to feel so bad
i still think that the line that seperates reliable cars from unreliable is VERY thin.
There of course is no easy way of proving whether the problem is the equipment itself or the location of the manufacturing process (Japan vs. USA). However, I do recall that some people have posted previously that JD Power studies have found that even 4 cylinders made in Japan are higher quality cars than the same 4 cylinder models made here (comparing apples to apples).
I guess since Honda is in some ways an American car, we may not be able to count on the reliability Japanese cars are known for. Do you think there is anything to this? Should we only buy those made in Japan?
Reply:
First of all, I am not sure how many of us know what "FWIW" means. I initially thought you were insulting me, but this shouldn't be the case, since you're the host and must maintain political correctness. I looked it up- for those of us not so web-savvy, FWIW means "for what it's worth". BTW, IMO, LOL
Secondly, please see the following press release from JD Powers: http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028
This study refers to a significant difference in initial quality between Japanese-built Accords compared with North American Accords, a difference of nearly 25 problems per 100 vehicles.
I am not familiar with a recent study that refutes this. If you are, please share with us. However, it definitely makes one wonder: what's the difference between the plants?
I am curious if they can inspect the gear w/out removing and disassembling the tranny.
Does anyone know?
The article you quote contains its own equivocation:
"It is important to note that often these manufacturers build different models in North America, and that some of these designs may be more difficult to build," said Ivers.
There are always two sides to every coin. It is not my intention to get into this debate on one side or the other. I guess I wanted to make the point - and I didn't really - that this question has come up over and over and it is never resolved in a manner that satisfies anyone, in my experience.
Hope this is clearer.
i have read that american built civics do better than their japanese counter parts however.
"It is important to note that often these manufacturers build different models in North America, and that some of these designs may be more difficult to build," said Ivers.
I was referring to the Accord and the Accord only, and differences in quality between those built here and those built in Japan. Not between apples built here and oranges built in Japan.
What I was referring to, and only referring to, was: "Honda Accords built in Japan have a nearly 25 PP100 advantage over those built in North American plants..."
I know, it also goes on to mention that Civics built here had better initial quality than those built there, but I am not talking about Civics. And I am not even saying I believe this data. I am just wondering if there's something to it. Why should there be any difference between an apple built here and an apple built there? Parts, labor?
I know it's a discussion that comes up time from to time. Heck, anyone remember the movie, "Gung Ho"? I didn't intend to repeat history (same discussion over and over), but was simply wondering if the recent recall had anything to do with it, since only American-built Accords were recalled (six cylinders). I brought up the possibility, and I stress, possibility, that some of the blame could be on American plants.
If anyone has any light to shed on what exactly the problem was that caused the recall, let us know. What's even more interesting is that only those built in the early 2004 model year and before are affected (per my dealer). Does anyone know what changed since then? Did they know something six months ago? Or was it chance that the parts or process changed for the better six months ago? My dealer didn't know the details, or at least wasn't willing to share.
Just looking for some truth. The recall press release doesn't have much detail. I didn't expect it to, but if any place is going to have the truth, it should be this board, right?
Good morning. That sounds like if the dealership is trying to blow people off. This is also our first Honda product, and after reading the remarks that your dealership told you, (get used to the noise) it totally turned me off. Well as a few posts after yours, I read a post that was quoted from Honda California, which stated that they are voluntarily recalling approx. 499,000 Accords, TL, etc. due to transmission defects. Well, I emailed the post to the service manager last night, same place where we purchased our Accord. I am also contacting Honda Corp. this morning and will be providing my VIN# to them to confirm that my Tranny is on the recall list, because that whining/whistling noise is NOT normal and I CANNOT live with it. Our vehicle was manuf. in November 2003 for the 2004 model year. Please keep in touch and I will also keep you updated. If the vehicle is driven in d3 and the noise goes away, then that tells me that the other/5th gear is not working properly or the noise is coming from somewhere else, but if the noise does not go away, then it may be what???
I talked to my friend last night. He told me that's what they did to his Odyssey's tranny a while back, installed an Oil Jet Kit into the tranny. He had it done before the recall mail was sent to him.
My 03EXV6 was built in 02 (bought in Nov'02). I am not sure it's affected.
Will give Honda a call.
Thanks for your informative posts. I will be sure to continue to post what happens with my car. It will be a few days, at least, before I know anything further.
Since you say you are part of the new recall, you must have a 6-cylinder? I have a 4-cylinder, and the recall announced on Tuesday is only for 6-cylinder models. Please confirm that you have a 6-cylinder.
This is intriguing, and confusing. If the five-speed automatic transmission in the 6-cylinder Accord is the same as those in the 4-cylinder models, then there must be something about the effect of a 6 cylinder engine on the tranny that's causing a problem. However, it may be that my 4-cylinder is having the same problem, it just hasn't been identified yet and added to the recall situation. My service department so far is only saying it seems likely the noise is coming from my transmission, and that they have no idea as to what in the transmission is causing the noise. But he is investigating, so maybe he'll come up with an answer. When I was there on Tuesday, he said nothing about the latest recall, so he's not relating my problem to the recall.
A point of clarification -- in my earlier post, when I wrote "The game is over -- get used to the noise," that was just my way of summarizing the upshot of what I was first told. Those are my words, not my dealership's. That's just me talking to myself, reflecting what I would have to do if I accepted their first answer. They have never been flippant about the situation at all -- they are taking it seriously. Whether they can fix it or not remains to be seen.
I hope all of you going through the recall get a quick, satisfactory fix. Would be good to hear of some good outcomes, if this is the case. Would boost my morale.
it isn't on the 4 cylinders because of torque - at least that was the reason with the Gen 6 failures....
i also called my dealer. he said that once i get my notice, he gets the parts about a week later, assigned to me by VIN. i am getting ready to take long summer trips (over 4 hours a pop on some flat high speed highways). he said "drive like you stole it" - at under 60k miles it won't matter.
hope he knows what he is talking about. i hear 15k is the magic number...but they haven't had any "issues" in a car with under 60k.
control throttle). I4 does not. That's one difference.
Yes, we do have an 04 V6 Automatic Accord. I was also told that the 4 cyl and V6 Trannys are different, but from my understanding only the programming of the Trannys are different, not the internal design, they are the same. Which would mean that your tranny would be affected, but Honda has yet to come forward. When I spoke to the dealership this morning they were unaware of the press release, well it was only one day posted. So I had the press release emailed to him, in which he printed it out and confirmed that indeed there was a recall. He also mentioned if I got any notice in the mail. I told him that Honda corp. will be sending out the notice in the mail in late July, but I am not going to wait for that notice, and I also said to him, that if he wants he could contact Honda customer service to have them tell him to have my vehicle repaired under bulletin#04-037. After he heard that there were no more questions, I have the appointment set-up for mid July, this late so that a loaner will be provided to me at no charge. Could have been done earlier, but they would not have a loner for me. Lucky, we only have about 3K miles on the vehicle and I have been very easy on it. Honda confirmed that as long as the vehicle didn't have 15K miles or over, there are NO damages on the tranny. I also already told the dealership that when they make the alterations that I want the Tranny fluid flushed and replaced, just to be safe. Contact Honda corp. give them your VIN# and listen to what they have to say.
Have you read 03accordman's post? He had 30K and had to have his tranny replaced. If I was in that situation, I would rent a vehicle for the trip, especially if you are planning to keep the Accord for a long time. We had plans this weekend, but after hearing this the long trips are canceled, but we will still do the short ones, but being extremely careful, not to cause any further damages.