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As for V6 only problems, well, as I posted earlier, I have a 4 cyl Auto, so maybe I am an isolated case, or maybe there will soon be others with the same issue with the 4 Cyl. The comforting thing is that Honda is standing by its product and doing this pro-actively.
I will keep you posted as soon as I get more info.
besides, i don't plan on keeping the car long, so i am not too concerned. i know i could be causing damage to the car, but as long as it doesn't FAIL and leave me stranded, what the heck!
the dealer promised that i wouldn't have a failure at such low miles. not that dealer statements are worth much....
Yes, I thought you had a 6-cylinder, but wasn't sure. I will be very interested to hear if whatever they do to your tranny takes the noise away, since we seem to have the same symptoms.
But as a 4-cylinder owner, I am officially on the sidelines as far as the recall goes. Hmmm.
Well, all I can do at this point is to continue working with my service manager for a fix. Like you, I want this noise eliminated and to have some degree of assurance that the transmission is operating properly and safely. As of the moment, I have neither.
03accordman,
I forgot -- you are the one who had a complete transmission failure -- correct? -- with a 4-cylinder Accord. Well, that just makes you wonder if the recall notice is not inching closer and closer to the 4-cylinder models. It definitely is spreading.
so i guess that theory is flawed.
we will probably figure it out here before Honda does...haha.
Well, at least Honda is trying to resolve the transmission issue, my Altima has some transmission shifting problems, and according to Altimas.net, my car isn't alone, but Nissan is doing NOTHING about it.
At least Honda is taking a stand. Next car will be an Accord EXV6 coupe.
04-021
Applies To: See VEHICLES AFFECTED
Safety Recall: Automatic Transmission Second Gear Inspection
BACKGROUND
Certain operating conditions can result in heat buildup between the countershaft and secondary shaft second gears in the automatic transmission. Without enough oil flow to dissipate heat, prolonged operation under these conditions can eventually result in decreased material strength. In higher mileage vehicles, this can result in gear tooth chipping or, in very rare cases, gear breakage. In most cases, transmission noise will indicate a problem, however it is possible for the transmission to become locked without warning. A locked transmission could result in a crash.
CORRECTIVE ACTION
Vehicles with 15,000 miles or less:
Install an A/T oil jet kit.
Vehicles with more than 15,000 miles:
Do a photographic, not visual, inspection of the A/T second gear:
• Using the digital camera and camera mount in the A/T Gear Inspection Kit, take five clear photos of the second gear through the countershaft speed sensor hole.
• Load the photos onto an iN workstation, then display them on the monitor.
• Compare the gear color in the photos with the gear colors in the A/T Gear Inspection Guide that came with the camera.
• If you determine that the color of the gear in your photos matches gear level number 1 on the inspection guide, install an A/T Oil Jet Kit.
• If you determine that the color of the gear in your photos matches any gear level other than number 1 on the inspection guide, submit a completed A/T order form, with your digital photographs, to RPO Tech Line.
Since the Odyssey/Pilot/V-6 Accord recall has to do with second gear, why the dire warning (see post 15076, above) about a possible transmission lockup and crash? At 70 mph, what would be happening with the second gear mechanism to lock up the transmission?
Or are we talking about a transmission lockup while in second gear at 15 mph, which, of course, is a whole lot less risky.
I'm guessing that with the multi-passenger Odyssey and Pilot, the higher risk & consequence level has warranted a recall this time.
Thankfully they're including the passenger cars. It's encouraging to know that Honda seems to have finally determined the cause and treatment, and is taking steps to mitigate. If the handling of the Tylenol debacle and recovery is to be an indicator, Honda should come out OK on this one.
I see. Thanks for the insight on second gear.
atlantabenny,
I agree it's a good step for Honda to be proactive with a recall, and I hope it's effective for every vehicle they see. But I'm still on the outside looking in, since they're just recalling V-6 models. I'm hoping Honda is sure that the automatic transmissions in 4-cylinder models do not have this same defect. It is pretty much the same transmission, as far as I can tell.
Plus, my situation, with my 4-cylinder, is that my car is making a whining noise that my service manager believes is coming from the transmission. He called again this morning, and he may wind up doing the oil jet kit fix or a new tranny for my car, which is the same fix for those under recall. So it just makes me wonder if the recall will eventually include the 4-cylinder Accords as well.
I hope Honda does come out of this looking good, because I'm enjoying owning and driving this car so much. Would love to keep it for many years.
That means that Honda KNEW of the problem in December 2003, or earlier, and only now are they announcing the recall. A couple months delay I could understand, but a seven month delay?
Pretty disappointed with Honda about this. Not about the recall itself, since recalls can happen to any car, but the fact that they delayed for so long.
So they let people people drive around for seven months or more, knowing that there was a defect which REQUIRES a kit to be installed? Thanks...
but seriously, there should be something moving to get Honda to provide an extended warranty to 100K miles on these transmissions for all owners.
Odd that a later built car is affected, whereas an earlier built car is not.
Really hope that no one gets hurt from a transmission lock-up while waiting for Honda to send them the letter.
any pics out there of what this oil jet thingamijig looks like? what is it exactly?
Has anyone seen or heard from Isellhondas, I think we would all like to hear what are his thoughts on this recall on the transmissions.
If the V6 and 4 cyl trannies are the same unit, the 4 cylinder engine shouldn't stress it anywhere near as severely as the V6. Well below it's torque limitation.
I lucked out and got a 04 Ody that has the updated auto. The rumor is they increased the ATF pump pressure on the later automatics so more fluid would cool the gear.
We have an 03 Accord EX 4 banger auto also. Not part of this recall but time will tell?
Anything stressed enough will break and if excess heat weakens 2nd gear in the Accord transmission, perhaps the gear could break under enough stress after some period of time exposed to extreme heat.
The Accord V6 engine generates over 30% more torque than the 4 cyl. and perhaps the more powerful, V6 engine could break a heat-weakened gear under conditions that would not occur with a 4 cylinder car.
The 4 cylinder engine simply might be unable to generate enough torque to do damage to the gear as would be the case with the V6.
So, if deterioration from heat could cause 2nd gear to disintegrate under hard acceleration in a V6 but would not under far less stress imposed by the 4 cylinder engine, then there's no problem for owners of the 4 cylinder--at least up to some high number of miles beyond which few 4 cylinder Accords are likely ever to be driven anyway.
Again, this is one explanation (guess) why the recall is for V6 Accords and not 4 cylinder ones......Richard
it would make me nervous if i owned a 4 cylinder model, but what can ya do?
The ultimate outcome of my situation might provide some insight. If my dealer winds up installing the oil jet kit, and the whining noise goes away, that would possibly link the 4 cyl. and 6 cyl. problems. And provide evidence that the recall should extend to 4 cyl. models.
Or maybe not. Who knows? I'm no mechanic, much less a mechanical engineer. I'm just an owner looking for satisfaction. In my personal situation, all I know is that I'm determined to have this abnormal noise fixed under the terms of my warranty, regardless of what's causing it.
I'm really posting all this, and following your all's thoughts, partly for my situation, but just as much for all the 4 cyl. owners.
And finally, you would think there are engineers at Honda who could answer all these questions for us in a heartbeat. Is there an American Honda Motor Co. representative monitoring all this on this thread? If so, how about pitching in with some solid information?
There is at least one precedent for this that I know about, and that some of you may be aware of, too. I was monitoring the Camry thread two years ago when I was comparison shopping, following the discussion about the oil gel issue. A Toyota corporate rep. finally weighed in with some comments, and actually received and answered questions on the Edmunds thread.
Maybe this isn't Honda's style, but I think the willingness of Toyota to do that was appreciated by most of the posters. Honda could win some points with me by engaging us on this thread. But I'm probably dreaming to think that a car company would be that customer oriented.
But, since you asked....
So far, our buys shop has examined and done the recall on a whole bunch of these. We found ***ONE*** high mileage Odyssey that was questionable. As I understand it, several techs looked at the photos and one tech thought second gear may have looked questionable.
So, they downloaded the photos to Honda who authorized a transmission replacemnet. The Odyssey looked like it had been well used and beaten. It had a Class 3 (Big) hitch on the back.
Personally, I think it's a tempest in a teapot since so few cars will ever experience a problem.
Still, not a great thing for Honda to have to deal with.
It has to be remembered that in forums such as this one, problems tend to become amplified beyond reality.
Actually, I had in mind someone from America Honda Motor Co. who would have a company-wide perspective. I think that would be much more helpful than someone such as yourself, who's looking at it from one dealer's perspective, though whatever factual information you can offer would certainly be appreciated.
Since you work for Honda, could you suggest this idea to someone at the corporate level?
I wouldn't characterize a recall program now involving about 1 million vehicles a tempest in a teapot. Especially one involving a key drivetrain element.
If you're suggesting I'm not dealing with reality, you'll have to go back and check my posts and let me know where you think I've strayed. Otherwise, kindly don't direct those kind of comments my way.
My goal in every post is to be realistic, along with helpful, polite, optimistic, and constructively critical, primarily because I really like my Honda. So far, no one but you has been critical of my approach. Your comment that I am amplifying the problem beyond reality has a condescending and patronizing tone to it, a kind of weary, "Well, I have to remind them again that they're making too much of this," when in fact we're trying to exchange information in an intelligent and considerate way.
All you offered on your last post was the idea that one minivan with a trailer hitch indicates this is a really small problem, being experienced mainly by those who abuse their vehicles ("well used and beaten, with a big hitch on the back."). That's an incredibly narrow view of an issue involving a recall with an initial pool of a million Honda products.
His comment about a tempest in a teapot was a general one, not an evaluation of your posts in regard to the recall. And his comment was NOT based on an evaluation of that one van, but on his dealerships evaluation of many vehicles that were inspected as part of the "first phase" of this recall. His point was that of the many vehicles that were inspected, only one met the conditions that required a transmission replacement. So by calling it a tempest in a teapot, he meant that in his opinion (which, let's not forget, he's entitled to), the likelihood of transmission replacement being required as a result of the defect covered by the recall is small.
If you really want him to pursue your request about representation from HAC, I humbly suggest that you may want to ask him a little bit nicer...
They won me over with that. Since then we have bought 7 new Hondas. One of our 02 Civics had a weak parking brake and our 03 Accord had the obligatory wrinking of the window trim. That's it.
Will the dealer arrange everything for you? Or do you have to call American Honda?
Will the dealer arrange everything for you? Or do you have to call American Honda?
My best guess is the dash has both leather and plastic, but the other possibility is that it's all plastic. If anyone knows for sure, please let me and the rest of us know. The manual doesn't seem to discuss this. Thanks in advance.
I think there is an Armor All product made for dashboards--don't use the regular Armor All because it leaves a shiny surface that will reflect the top of the dash into your windshield......Richard
It's too bad the manual doesn't discuss "how to care for your interior". At least I haven't come across it yet. If anyone has come across this in the manual, or otherwise knows the truth about this, please let us know.
Thanks
Rich
Just because cars are recalled, this doesn't mean that they all have problems. The recall is simply to inspect these cars in order determine if they may have a problem.
Although installing this myself was a bit intimidating, and the spring switch was the hardest part, I at least felt confident that I would do the job as good or better than the kid at the dealer would have.
And, they don't let "kids" install spoilers at the dealerships. Drill the holes wrong and you are in deep trouble.
Also, those springs can be nasty to install depending on the model. I know the Preludes were enough for the most seasoned tech to turn the air blue trying to get them in place!