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However, as I understand it, some of those vehicles will be recalled, some won't. And of those recalled, some will require repair/replacement, some won't. The "some" is the unknown factor. Only Honda knows that. As a Honda owner, when the recall is finished with, I would be interested to know those numbers.
All that I can recall about this issue from several years ago is that the number of '98-02 generation Accords back then that were affected by transmission issues was never really pinned down, but that about 16,000 TLs required service, according to a Honda news release.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1895&ncid- - =1895&e=5&u=/nm/20040709/us_nm/autos_honda_fires_dc
What's going on with Honda these days?
It appears to be a CRV specific thing though, and not applicable to other Hondas like Accords.
This may be a bit off the topic, but here goes. I heard on the news this morning that Honda is investigating why the CRV's and some of their other suv's are starting fires. They believe that when the mechanics are changing the oil, some of the oil that comes off the oil filter spills onto the exhaust system, which in turn ignites. This to me is another design flaw. If the exhaust has the potential of being in contact with used oil during a simple oil change service, then why in the world would you not install a few heat shields around the affected area. It figures, Honda seems to always look to cut cost, while at the same time inconvenience their customers.
This is a pretty broad statement, and actually something that Honda is generally recognized and lauded for NOT doing. If it's a design flaw, it's a design flaw. But that's different from implying that the engineers were thinking something like "hey, we can save a few bucks by eliminating some obviously necessary heat shields... if that causes a few fires, that's the breaks!"
I really doubt that Honda consciously and deliberately left out something that would prevent fires just for the sake of cost cutting.
Very little has been revealed about this situation at this point, and we don't even know exactly what Honda's response will be. Clearly they're researching things now. Give them a chance to figure out a plan of action before condemning them.
As for the comment about proactive vs. reactive, Honda IS being proactive about the transmission situation, so they've already begun to be proactive.
Honda clearly has work to do to get these design situations under control, but I think it's premature to be writing them off at this point.
What about the many people who have never experienced any problems and are very happy about there accords?
I enjoy these boards but feel like one issue gets all the attention then everyone feels like their vehicles are lemons and are going to fail. I've always felt Honda's with manual transmissions are best but it didn't stop me from buying an 04 ex-l automatic.
I often thought to myself that Honda could have done a better job of locating exhaust system components relative to the oil filter on the Honda products that I owned, but I am not an engineer so I took care when changing my oil to make sure oil spills were miminized when I was removing the oil filter. When you take your car in for other people to service you are at the mercy of their competency. You hope that the techs that service you vehicles are competent. That is not always the case. I am sure that Honda dealerships have their share of poor performing techs. I can tell you horror stories about a Ford dealership on Long Island that had me writing letters to Ford about incompetent service tech. I guess that is why I do a lot of the work that I can do on my cars myself. There are certain repairs that I will not attempt to take on. I am lucky that I have found a very competent private auto repair shop in Delaware where I now live. I still check the work myself when I have had work done by this place and I will check the work that is done on my new Accord when I take it to the dealership to have warranty service performed.
Folks who do not have the knowledge have to rely on the competency of the people to whom they bring their vehicles for repair. Some of them who own CRV got burned (NPI).
I would not imply that Honda was aware of the fire or tranny issues and still let it go by. What I would say about being proactive is, first test vehicles in real life day to day scenarios. Testing on a track is just not enough. Next, not only Honda, but all manufacturers should think through before designing vehicles, especially when it comes to maintenance of the vehicles. Did they not change the the oil on the test CRV's, and did they not visualize what may or may not occur down the road. I agree, there is a design defect for both the Tranny's and the now the CRV's on fire. It's like history repeats itself, especially with the Tranny issue. Still, being proactive IMO is more real life day-to-day testing in different scenarios. Of course Honda must attempt to correct the tranny issue again, but calling it proactive at this stage of the game is not correct. I would not write them off at this point, but it leaves a bad feeling in the back of my mind.
It's an easy thing to play Monday morning quarterback and suggest such an approach, but there are so many possible permutations of "real life day-to-day" that they could be testing that it's essentially impossible to catch everything.
As for the CR-V, I seriously doubt that the situation is well enough understood by anyone to draw any conclusions. If the problem is indeed caused by oil leaking from the filter, I agree your "real life day-to-day" suggestion has merit... that's something common enough that it shouldn't have been missed. But there are some rather significant factors that imply that the oil filter situation isn't really the cause. First, earlier model years of the current generation CR-V have not exhibited this problem, yet the oil filter/exhaust system configuration is the same. And according to another poster with a background as a mechanic, similar configurations are common to most Hondas, yet they aren't catching fire either.
So it seems that there's something more at fault here.
On the test drive there was a faint whine coming from the engine compartment.
This is disappointing, but no vehicle is bulletproof.....
All of our Toyotas from the '80s and '90s had filters awkwardly positioned vs either the exhaust or some other part of the engine - this is hardly a unique phenomenon with Honda.
Anyway, the point is, make sure the filter gasket material is completely removed from the filter opening before attempting to install the new filter and o-ring.
A cardinal sin in the automotive business. If that's true, the supplier will be paying the bill.
anyone done their own oil yet on an Accord 4 cyl?
maybe you should test drive a different Accord to compare what you are hearing.
Or the original is put on dry against the dry engine block metal while the replacements are oiled and therefore don't stick. I'm betting on some change in the gasket from the supplier of the OEM stuff to the factory. And that rubber is not releasing leaving bits causing leaks under pressure.
Saw a nice couple who lost their 04 to fire on the news this evening.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
i'm holding out for the next jetta or possibly the passat. if they disappoint i can always hope honda puts a 6 cylinder in the tsx.
how many of you have gotten your tranny recall notice? i guess they started this in april but it's already july and i haven't seen anything yet. just wondering if anyone else has been waiting so long...? if you did get the notice and visited your dealership...how'd you turn out? thanks,
'03 v6 coupe
April 26, 2004
Recall Campaign: Automatic Transmission Second Gear Inspection
Dear Accord Owner:
Your vehicle is affected by the automatic transmission recall that was recently announced.
What is the problem?
Certain operating conditions can result in heat build-up between the second gears of the transmission's countershaft and secondary shaft. Prolonged operation under these conditions can eventually result in a decrease in the gear's material strength. In higher mileage vehicles, this may lead to chipped or broken gear teeth or, in rare instances, gear failure.
What are "certain operating conditions"?
Extended cruising in top gear with a high engine load but small throttle opening can result in limited oil flow to second gear, causing localized heat build-up. These conditions should be rare. Examples may include extended towing in top gear on a very flat road with a throttle opening of 1/4 or less; or frequent driving up a road with a very consistent slope of approximately 3.5~6%, again maintaining a throttle opening around 1/4 or less.
Under most circumstances, small road undulations or throttle corrections cause the vehicle to go in and out of torque converter lock-up, varying engine rpm, and therefore increasing oil flow to the gears. Increased oil flow dissipates heat and prevents second gear damage.
What should I do now? Can I continue to drive?
Occurrences of lock-up due to gear breakage are very rare, especially at low mileage. There are no confirmed failures in U.S. vehicles with mileage less than 60,000 miles. Honda will notify customers to visit their dealership according to vehicle age, allowing us to efficiently schedule parts and repairs. Please contact your dealer when you receive your notice, or sooner if you notice any abnormal noises from your transmission.
How and when will Honda begin to notify owners?
Mailings began in early May and will continue until September or until all customers have been notified. We recommend that customers wait until they are notified before trying to schedule an appointment. This will allow us to carry out the most efficient, effective and timely campaign.
What is the dealer looking for when inspecting the transmission?
Vehicles with less than 15,000 miles - The technician will update the transmission with a simple modification to the oil cooler return line to increase lubrication to second gear.
Vehicles with more than 15,000 miles - The technician will inspect the second gear for discoloration of the gear due to heat damage. If there is any evidence of heat damage, the transmission will be replaced. If discoloration is not present, the dealer will perform the modification to the oil cooler return line.
What is this "simple modification to the oil cooler return line"?
It is a relatively simple repair involving the installation of an "oil jet kit" that is mounted on the top of the transmission. The modification works by taking a portion of the transmission fluid that is flowing back from the cooling system and spraying that fluid directly onto the affected gear, eliminating the potential for heat damage.
How can I be sure I won't have problems with this repair in later years, after the warranty period has expired?
For vehicles affected by this campaign, installation of the oil kit provides a permanent repair.
Should my vehicle be towed to the dealership?
If you experience transmission noise or transmission lock-up, the vehicle should be towed to the dealership. If not, it can be driven to the dealership when the appointment is scheduled.
Is there a way for me or my independent repair facility to diagnose this problem?
No, your vehicle must be taken to an authorized Honda dealership for a thorough inspection and accurate repair.
Why is the dealer repair different from the manufacturing repair?
The manufacturing change was relatively easy to accomplish during transmission production, but to apply the same repair at the dealership would require transmission removal and disassembly. Installation of the oil kit is a permanent repair that is easily accomplished at the dealership.
i got this off the honda owner link web site.
I'm really very glad you and your brother are enjoying problem-free Accords. I envy you. Ironically, I too have a brother with a trouble-free Accord. He's one of the reasons I decided to buy mine.
Unfortunately, however, not all of us have been thus blessed with trouble-free Accords. But in our quest for solutions, we're not engaged in "shouting matches," as you rather dismissively put it, and I can assure you that my defective transmission is apolitical. We're just having calm discussions, looking for answers.
As for "Just buy the car -- you won't be disappointed," that's exactly what I was hoping for. But as the Stones put it so well, "You can't always get what you want." Will we get what we need? Certainly, if Honda can just fix the transmission.
i mean, CRV's exploding at 5k miles, and they put the blame on anything but them. simply put, they should say "WE MESSED UP". seriously, it wouldn't matter if it is the supplier - at 5k miles, no matter where someone gets their oil changed, they shouldn't have to worry about a fire. and all Honda can say is "we can't figure out why the 02's don't do it!" to add insult to injury they aren't recalling the vehicles to add a safety feature because it isn't important enough. its called they don't want bad press. but, as VW can attest, waiting to issue recalls just means WORSE press. at least Pinto's had to be HIT to catch on fire
that coupled with transmission issues on every car except Civics and CRV's. not good.
Honda will learn, but i am hoping that our resale values aren't plummeting as i type this...
The CRV fires are caused by careless oil change technicians. Unless you have different information.
http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2004/07/09/203061.html
Sounds like negligence to me.
Errr, that technician at fault information came from HONDA!!! It's the ABM's fault. (Anybody but me.)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If you are worried about a potential fire, these have only happened on CRVS when the careless mechanic neglected to remove the old gasket from the mounting plate before reinstalling the new filter.
I would guess, given this news they will be ACUTELY aware to wipe off the plate as they should always do anyway.
I called Honda and they said that a loaner was included and that the notices went out this past week. She said to call Honda after receiving the notice so a loaner can be assured.
Obviously this issue concerns errors made by the tech doing the oil change, the nature of the gas get compound and possibly the installation of the oil filter on a new engine. The problem, why only CRV's? Why now??
I'll bet that now that this issue has come to light we might see that this is happening in cases involving models other than the CRV or Hondas.
Nothing new here at all...
sounds like bad design. it would be nice to hear Honda admit it. YES, the technician shouldn't spill oil, and if he does, he should clean it, but you know he spills oil on all cars, and they don't catch on fire.....and if no oil is spilled on other cars, it is because they are designed properly, because you know a technician could care less what car he is working on. his work style is the same.
not to mention, what about the Honda dealer techs? what is their excuse? Hondas all over the country are catching on fire - can't just be one tech.
i really do wonder why the Accords aren't have the issue. same engine... maybe something about the angle at which the filter is taken out? or the gaskets at the plants in the U.S. are better quality than the ones in Japan factories?
we will probably come up with an answer before Honda does...;)
thx
I also think that delay when one first puts the car in Drive is also a design defect that we have not yet heard about. Does anyone else notice that it takes a while (and two engagements) for the car to lock into D from P or R?