BMW 5-Series Sedans

dl7265 · March 2002

Any reason a single test would not be relavent ? I never thought of that.

Roundel, i wish i had joined last year to save that 500-1000 ah well,

DL

shipo · March 2002

A single test tells you what is in the oil, which is fine as far as it goes; however, every engine produces different types of deposits at different rates. According to the Analysis folks, the only meaningful tests are those done over time so you can see the trend. Once the trend is established, then, and only then, will you be able to notice if anything is amiss, which will be indicated by one or more of the deposit numbers rising out of the "Normal" range established by said previous tests.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tguerino · March 2002

I am interested in ordering a 540 via euro-delivery and would like to know what dealer to contact in Pa for $1,500 over euro-invoice. Thanks for any info.

jgwaltney · March 2002

Thx - Hadn't considered ED and didn't realize that for same basic $36.5 could get new '02 525ia via ED - You mentioned prem. pak, but not sport pak, step, cd - are these incl in your $34.8 ED price or do I need to refigure? - Will head for the ED pricing site to ck - Thanks!

dl7265 · March 2002

that makes sense, only problem is it would be a little late at that point. lol

On another note , we've found some acreage we are interested in, so a ED might be a little delayed at this point

.

DL

shipo · March 2002

The car I cobbled together is with PP (CD is standard), no SP or Step, to add those, will bump the price $1,820 and $1,210 respectively, totalling $3,030 over the previous price.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jgwaltney · March 2002

Thx - went to bmw ED site to ck but couldn't find option prices (you truly are "the man" - perhaps you could consider a "side-job" as a "car locator" for interested parties, you certainly have more knowledge than vast majority of those selling)

Guess those options would push an '02 ED 525 (step, sport/premium - it also has sunshade) to betw. $39.5-40K

What has your previous experience led you to believe on reliability and ownership/maintenance costs once a 3 or 5 series goes out of 4 yr / 50k factory warranty?

riez · March 2002

jgwaltney... Check out Consumer Report's data on reliability. The 2002 New Car issue just came out. Lots of interesting info on 5 Series reliability. You might also check out Intellichoice's data on ownership costs. Guessing there are other sources out there but I'm familiar with these two.

nyccarguy · March 2002

Shipo's busy, I believe he's only brought his '99 328i in for the 15,000 & 30,000 mile service.

shipo · March 2002

As to my current 328i, NycCarGuy is quite correct (thanks for standing in for me), my car has only seen the inside of the service department on the two aforementioned occasions. That said, I have had to replace the wiper-blades (big surprise), two taillight bulbs (total of $2.00, just easier to do it myself), and I suspect that I will have to do a brake job on the front end in the next couple of days.

As for reliability beyond the 50K boundary, BMWs have historically proven to be cars with very long legs, to the tune of well over 250,000 miles, if properly maintained. That said, in the past, some of the peripheral systems have not had such a great track record, however, in the last 8 to 10 years, even those things seem to have improved dramatically.

Given that the ability to buy a car like the 5-Series with a manual transmission will most likely end one of these days, and that I would like to have the opportunity to teach my children how to drive such a car, I may just find out how long my new 530i will last. My son is only 8, however, he has already asked me to teach him to drive the stick, unfortunately, here in New Jersey, an individual must be 17 years old prior to being licensed to drive. Let's see... he will be 17 in 2011, my 530i will then be 9 years old with about 140,000 miles on it. Gee, I wish I could have had a 9-year-old BMW when I was 17. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy · March 2002

Move to NY. Your son can get his license here at 16;)_

jgwaltney · March 2002

oh to be 8 riding in a '02 bimmer, thinking about the "glory days" to come, cruisin' on friday nights with your best girl in that "old classic BMW 5-series" you dad gave you - (feelin' nostalgic at 40, i drove a '67 pontiac catalina) - come on, let's admit it, don't we all want a dad like shipo?

shipo · March 2002

Funny thing about the driving age, I started driving at 14, had my own set of keys to the car at 15 (had a single mother and ran errands), got my license at 16 and never looked back. That is until 1997. My wife and I built a new house in 1996 and moved in to it in mid December 1996, in February 1997, I got a call at work from my builder asking "Have you heard about your house yet?"

Me, "Uhhh, no, what about it?"

Mr. Builder, "Apparently one of your trees jumped out in front of a car load of high-school kids and when they stopped spinning and sliding (partially aided by my sprinkler system working like the arrester system on an Aircraft Carrier), the car was about 3 feet from your front porch.

Me, Ummm, was anybody hurt?

Mr. Builder, Physically, no, however, the kid who was driving the car just turned 17 yesterday and had had his license for less than 24 hours. Given that the front right fender and suspension from his mothers brand new E430 is scattered from your tree, all of the way across your front yard toward your house, I suspect that his injuries have yet to occur.

Suddenly, I saw the light; I now think that 17 may possibly be a little too early to get your ticket punched. Hopefully, I can instill a few small granules of FEAR in my son prior to cutting him loose with the car.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jwilson1 · March 2002

That's why both of my sons got cars as soon as they could pay the insurance (one was at 16.5, the other the day after he turned 16), but I chose the car for them ... cruel father that I am, I bought them both Escorts.

Reasoning: cheap enough to absorb dents (inevitable), small enough to limit the number of friends (liability), ugly and un-cool enough to guarantee both kids would save to replace with something they'd want to drive after they had earned their own money (both settled for fairly sedate models once they found out about insurance costs), and Escorts are slow enough that the kids stand a fair chance of returning.

Some people like the idea of bigger cars -- yeah, so long as they are underpowered. I prefer quicker so they can learn to truly drive.

Take care.
Joe W.

ds2k1 · March 2002

Does anyone have a link to the latest developments on the redesign of the 5-Series? I'll be in the market for a new car in early 2004 and think the new 5 should be released by then. Thanks in advance for the help.

shipo · March 2002

That should be just about right. The only question in my mind, will you like the new 5er (E60?) as much as the current E39?

Best Regards,
Shipo

snagiel · March 2002

Yes, asked frequently but never answered to satisfaction. There's no official word yet on the 5-series replacement, and pictures already distributed are clearly heavily-doctored fakes.

As for hardware, though, the latest Roundel reports it'll have more extensive use of aluminum in the front-end (especially suspension components), and reports about three engine possibilities: 270hp 3.7l and 325hp 4.4l V8's (both valvetronic units from the new 7-series), as well as a 5.0l 400+ hp V10 monster for the new M5. No word on six inlines, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 200hp 2.5l and 250hp 3.0l valvetronic versions as well. One can only surmise iDrive will become an option as well. And Roundel states it will retain some flavor of the new 7-series rear-end (blach).

ds2k1 · March 2002

Thanks for the update. Very exciting stuff about the engine options. Man, I hope you're wrong about the rear end. I hate to be totally superficial (and, yes, I am still talking about cars), but that is one ugly rear end on that 7. I like the rest of the 7, but the rear end is just plain wrong. Would it prevent me from buying what will, I'm sure, be the finest car offered in its class otherwise? Hmmmm....

habitat1 · March 2002

I agree. One of our neighbors appears to have purchased a new 7 (awaiting opportunity to confirm it's theirs) and it is just plain "butt ugly". Thankfully, I don't think I will ever need to venture beyond a 5-series to be happy, but if I did, the looks of the new 7 would be problematic. The 7-series is probably a better car, but IMO the AMG S55 looks sharper.

Just curious. Would anybody out there complain if they left the 5-series styling just the way it is for another 5-6 years? I sure wouldn't.

cmr530i · March 2002

My vote is to keep the 5 as near to the perfect form that it is now. (I do admit that the 7 styling is beginning to look better the more I see it, but how hard and long should one have to look?)

shipo · March 2002

One of the deciding factors regarding keeping my current low mileage 328i at lease end or going for the 5er was the styling change. To my eye, the 2001 facelift makes the car look fresher than when the E39 debuted in 1996. Not that BMW will listen to us; however, I for one would have no problem with another half dozen years or so of the current design.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jlawson4 · March 2002

I'm close to purchasing my first BMW, a 525i with manual transmission but have one reservation - how does this car perform in adverse weather?? I drive to Vermont and Maine a few times a winter to ski and would really appreciate some feedback on whether I should have concerns with the 525's ability to deal with snowy roads. BMW claims to have made significant progress with traction issues. Is this true? My second choice is the Audi A4 quattro.

musafir · March 2002

New 5 series will have 270 hp, 3.5 l engine. I beleive that this is an inline 6, similar to the one destined for 6 series.

snagiel · March 2002

Well, the Roundel article just said mentioned a "3.5 liter" engine. It's my (and other's) best guess this refers to the 270hp, 3.5 liter V8 that has debuted on the new 7-series only in Europe. This makes most sense, since it's unlikely BMW will develop both a 3.5l six and eight cylinder engines for concurrent production. And further, BMW reportedly has integrated valvetronic with the 2.5l and 3.0l six inlines, which will reportedly appear in the 3-series (next year?) and upcoming X3 SAV. It would make sense for these engines also to be offered on the new 5-series; I personally would welcome the choice between five engines.

bmw323is · March 2002

Last week I had my first real confrontation with snow and the Bimmer. I drive a 323i with sport package and summer tires. Usually, I drive my second vehicle (a Ford Ranger 4X4) on snowy days, alleviating my need for snow tires on the 3 series. However, I got caught in a snow storm last Friday. I was very pleased with the car especially with summer performance tires. DSC worked great and it had better traction than my truck in 2WD mode. If I normally drove in snow, I would definately get snow tires. My friend has a 528i with all-seansons and doesn't find the need to buy snow tires (in Denver). There are two reasons to get AWD - hills and deep snow. A RWD with snow tires will be better than AWD with all-season tires for braking, cornering and straight line stability - everything except getting started on hills or in deep snow. Hope this helps you make a decision (hint - get the 525).

g_car · March 2002

Best Car Tested: BMW 530i
Fun to Drive: Subaru Impreza WRX
Family Sedan or Wagon: Volkswagen Passat
Small Car: Honda Civic EX
Driving Green: Toyota Prius
Upscale Sports Sedan: BMW 330i
Small SUV: Toyota RAV4
Midsized SUV: Toyota Highlander
Pickup Truck: Toyota Tundra
Minivan: Honda Odyssey

Hate to say it but I agree with CR :-)

rlowrie · March 2002

I was curious if anyone on this board has a particular sales rep they would recommend in the Maryland/Virginia area. My closest dealers are VOB in MD and BMW of Fairfax or Arlington in VA. I am interested in driving as many combos as I can as I am still in the 530 vs 540 with or without SP internal debate. Although I am looking for the best deal I can find I still (perhaps foolishly) feel compelled to work with a local dealer even if it might cost me a couple of dollars. Sorry to the Manual proponents out there but I'm only looking at Automatics.

nyccarguy · March 2002

If you must go with the Steptronic, at least do yourself a favor and get the Sport Package!

habitat1 · March 2002

I don't have anyone in particular I would recommend at VOB, but I have heard a few horror stories regarding both Fairfax and Arlington. One of my business partners bought a 540iA sport from Fairfax after his brother bought an M5. Both swear the will never set foot there again based upon service screw ups. Arlington also has a sleezy reputation among my peers.

So, my recommendation would be VOB or, if it's not too far, Tischer. They arranged to have me test drive the 530 5-speed w & w/o sport and the 540i 6-speed all in one day. I ended up buying something completely different, but I would be inclined to give them my business in the future.

Good luck.

rlowrie · March 2002

I did not find Tischer in the BMW dealer locator. Where are they? Thnaks for your help.

cb44 · March 2002

rlowrie,

Tischer has been first rate for me in the past. They are at (301) 890-3000 and located just outside Silver Spring in the Montgomery Auto park on Rt. 29.

I would ask for Mike Mills who has been there forever and is a very knowledgeable and fair rep.

mlbmw · March 2002

I really agree with your guys, that is why my wife and I was hurry to buy a '2002 530i. no matter new 5 series or 7. we don't like their styling, too fat, also the currently 3 series is bad look on rear side. i think everybody has seen the new E-320, it is better its currently mode and new 5, if new 5 series will keep the styling which we saw on the internet, it should lose a lot market.

530bmw · March 2002

You can also check out Passport BMW in MD too.

jwilson1 · March 2002

who likes the new 7 series? I agree that it's no where near as 'dignified,' but think it has picked up a new "techno" & powerful look to it. Not sure about the imax thing tho...

Take care.
Joe W.

jim52 · March 2002

I was playing around with the "voice recognition" feature and came to the conclusion that it will probably cause more accidents than it will prevent.

mgriffin3 · March 2002

Hi Guys,
My mom is looking at 530i, and I'm trying to help her out. What dealers are you getting $1500 over invoice at? We are looking to lease. We're in Central NJ/Bucks County PA. Email me rmgriffi@aol.com or post.

Just bought a Audi A4 myself, $1000 over invoice. Great car!

~Mike

jlawson4 · March 2002

Hey bmw323is - Thanks for the response. That was enough for me to seal the deal for the 525 over the Audi A4. Thanks again.

dl7265 · March 2002

I like it , well the headlamps not so much , but the rest o yes. We are too young for this crowd

DL

g_car · March 2002

I'm starting to really like the 7, shape grows on you. May have something to do with all the ads on the Speed Network, heheheh.

riez · March 2002

The latest issue of Automobile Magazine has a 3-car high-end comparison test between new 745i and MB S and Lexus LS430. When I compare the photographs of all 3, think the new 7 Series does start looking a lot better than I thought it did when just compared with old 740i. Automobile raved about a lot of things regarding new 745i.

jwilson1 · March 2002

DL, you said:

"I like it , well the headlamps not so much , but the rest o yes. We are too young for this crowd

You've made my day, sonny -=- I'm almost 60 & it's been a long time since anyone noticed my true youth. LOL

Take care.
Joe W.

carnaught · March 2002

....will grow on us. That is not unusual for new body designs from BMW.

a10driver · March 2002

Everyone,

Thanks to your help, I was able to get a good deal from Passport BMW in the DC area. I've learned a lot simply by taking a few nights to read all the notes you guys put in.

As far as the new 7 series, is it me or did it appear that BMW copied the front end of the Chrysler 300M? I don't like it at all.

I agree with those who think the current 5 series is a great looking car, hence my newest ED purchase.

Enjoy your cars

habitat1 · March 2002

When you get a chance, give us the details of your deal. Also, who do you recommend dealing with at Passport. They are about the only DC area dealer I have not contacted because of location, but it appears they must be worth visiting.

Thanks.

dl7265 · March 2002

SIR, You can be youthful as you want to be At least i am over 1/2 your age. hehe

maybe we can be like that Chevy commercial when the guys looks over the pasture and say "son one day this can all be yours " refering to the silverado of course... hmm a nice pre owned 760i nice

.

DL

jwilson1 · March 2002

Save your allowance, DL;) Do you think I'm made of money? Or what?

Question: does anyone else suspect that the 5-manual doesn't sell so well partly because the voracious dealers won't stock them?

Take care.
Joe W.

shipo · March 2002

Since I started shopping for a BMW back in 1998, I have been somewhat amused by the fact that the two different dealership that I have visited (Northern New Jersey, part of the NYC metro area) have not only stocked Manual Transmission 3ers and 5ers, but they actually put them on the showroom floor!

One salesman told me that their dealership actually sells 50% of their 3-Series cars with the stick and about 25% for the 5-Series. My guess would have been that, here in this area, manual transmissions would be in disfavor given all of the traffic. Fortunately, that is not so. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

snagiel · March 2002

I guess it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg scenario. Dealers claim demand is low for manuals (probably higher than other carmakers, but nevertheless a minority), so they stock less of them. My dealer, in fact, requested my deposit be twice ($2000) the usual amount since I had ordered a manual, and he said they don't like being stuck selling them.

But most enthusiasts (those who typically order the sticks) are usually particular about the features and options on their cars, and don't mind ordering them and waiting a couple months. At least I'm glad BMW still offers sticks on so many of its models.

nyccarguy · March 2002

I actually remember walking into Prestige a year or 2 ago and 5 out of the 6 cars (one was a 740i) in the showroom were manuals.

I was milling around BMW of Manhattan a few months ago and saw a Beige Metallic/Sand Leather 530i with a 5 speed sitting on the showroom floor.

Some dealers do stock them, but the sad part is that due to the traffic here in the NYC metro area there is so much traffic that they do stock many more slushboxes than manuals.

bn_shopn · March 2002

Another dealer to look at would be Northwest BMW in Baltimore. Recommend Jill Owens, very knowledgable and nice to work with.

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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