BMW 5-Series Sedans

shiner_bock · May 2002

Karro, I feel your pain. I've been looking around at 530's off and on for the past few months and just recently I started getting serious. After seeing some of the posts on the board, I was fully expecting the dealers in my area (Dallas/Ft. Worth) to at least negotiate a little bit. How wrong was I! The best I could do was to get an "Internet Price" at one dealer which was basically $1000 under MSRP. I went as far as to locate a dealer with a 2002 530 with 6000 dealer miles and they were still unwilling to budge on a price that came out to $1000 "over" invoice! For a car with 6000 miles on it!
The dealers in my area don't work off commission (so they say), so I guess that explains the lack of negotiation on their part. I just can't make myself pay that much over invoice for a car...guess it's some recessive gene I have. Perhaps ED is the way to go...

nyccarguy · May 2002

Many people here on TH (not just the BMW boards) have expressed how difficult it is to buy certain luxury marques in the DFW area (it seems to be right up there with Houston, San Fran & Chicagoland). You've got a few options:

1. Is ED like you mentioned. Shipo saved well over $5000 on his 530i and had a great time to boot. Another member on the 3 series board just got back from an ED weekend and ended up spending $1000 total (air/hotel/food/transportation). He picked the car up on Friday and drove it to the drop off Friday night, toured Zurich by train and then flew back to the states.

2. Many here have posted about positive experiences with Mike Pile BMW in TYLER, TX (about 1.5 hours from you).

3. If Europe is too expensive, then come to the NY area to pick up your car. The NY,NJ,CT area seems to have the best "deals" on higher end cars. You could fly up here, pick up the car, stay overnight, & take a few days to drive back.

Good luck with your search!

snagiel · May 2002

I can sympathize; Although I live in Atlanta, I was working in the Dallas area for more than a year, and test drove a 525i at John Roberts. The dealer told me with a straight face they would only sell at sticker, so I walked away without hesitating. And he even had the chutzpah to call me after a couple days and see if I had caved. He reiterated their pricing stance. What a bunch of morons.

shipo · May 2002

Like NycCarGuy said, I saved somewhere around $5,500 (including tax savings) on my new ED 530i. As a point of reference, I ordered a 2002 530i 5-Speed, Black Sapphire, Black Leather, SP, PP, DSP, Xenon car with a domestic MSRP of $47,395. It took a total of 5-Minutes on the phone (two phone calls) with my salesman to agree on $1,500 over ED invoice, which worked out to $42,180, a savings of $5,215 before the tax savings are taken into account.

After the deal was done, I asked my salesman if he would be willing to offer the same deal to other folks that I might refer to him, and he told me "Absolutely". Here we are a couple of months later, and he has made good on that promise at least twice. The first one was to a TownHall member here in New Jersey; the second was also a TownHall member located in the Denver area. My salesman even arranged to have the car drop shipped to Colorado after it cleared the VPC for a couple of extra dollars. If you are interested, please contact:

Mike Weber
Park Avenue BMW
Maywood, NJ
201-843-7900

Best Regards,
Shipo

dabimmer · May 2002

I continue to be amazed at how helpful you people are on this message board. Someone posts
a question on something that is bothering them or something they need info or clarification
and there you all are ! Fantastic, keep up the great work! This board is like no other.

karro · May 2002

I live in the Boston area, and the dealers here do not give you very good service if you do not buy the car from them so I am trying to stay local; that rules out ED and brokers. I am sure that BMW USA is not happy about this, but the dealers around here are not shy about telling you (when you are shopping) that they will give you preferred times. They even post on their websites that loaners are only for people who buy from them and that is a big incentive for me because I live outside of the city and depend heavily on my car for daily activities.

The sales people that I have dealt with are very polite and proper, they do not come off as arrogant, they are even friendly. But, they do tell you that they can not lower the price, and they don't! One of them even said: "I know that I am not giving the best deal, but I am giving you a good deal". He then went on to tell me about customer service nightmares from the other dealer in the area (he did not mention any names, but there is only one other dealer nearby) and how they always have to rescue the buyers. I guess that they resent missing out on the sale profit of the vehicle, while having to do all the BMW-subsidized maintenance.

Anyway, I am hoping to get final details on the pricing from "the other" dealer today. I will keep you posted.

Thanks for your responses.

nyccarguy · May 2002

you can order the car via ED through your local dealer and it will be just like ordering the car from them except you pick it up in Germany, then pick it up again at their dealership, so you will still be buying the car from them.

shipo · May 2002

It is just like NycCarGuy said; trust me, I just did it. When you buy a car via the ED program, you are buying from you local dealership, and they make virtually the same profit above invoice either way. Specifically, the markup on a domestically purchased 530i is $3,390, while the markup on the same car obtained through the ED program is $3,300, a whopping $90 difference. That said, the difference to you is $2,760 at MSRP.

Interestingly enough, there are a few incentives for a dealer to give you an even better deal on an ED car than a car off of their lot:

1) Each dealership is given a yearly allocation of new cars to sell, and generally speaking, that is all they get, however, when they sell an ED car, said car does NOT come out of their allocation, it is essentially "Found Money".

2) Among other things, a dealerships' allocation is based upon how many cars they sold in the previous year(s). As it turns out, ED cars DO count toward the total of cars sold, so, the more ED cars a dealership sells, the higher the next years' allocation will be.

Talk to your local dealer, many salesman do not even know these facts, so, you may have to educate him/her. In my case, I called the dealership and simply asked the salesman who happened to answer the phone, "Will you accept a deal for a new ED 530i for $1,500 over invoice?"

He said, "Hmmmm, we don't usually do that type of deal, can I call you back in 5 minutes?"

He called back in eight and said, "Are you ready to do the deal right now?" I drove right over there, signed the paperwork and dropped off a deposit check. Total time from initial phone call to signed deal, one hour.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · May 2002

Hmmm, Owners Circle seems to be suffering from a severe lack of accurate facts regarding my 530i. Consider the following:

Up until today, it showed my car as having the following options:
530i
Black Sapphire Metallic
Black Leather
Bi-Xenon Headlights
Premium Hi-fi Sound System
Sport Package
Premium Package

By now, we all know that the "Bi-Xenon" thing is wrong, however, today, suddenly my car ceased to have the Sport Package, were it not for the fact that I have already driven it for almost 1,500 miles, I might be inclined to be a little nervous about the change.

If that is not enough, my cars' location seems to be a bit of a mystery as well. Owners Circle now shows my car at the VPC, as of today; however, it also says that my car was supposed to be delivered to my dealership yesterday. A quick call to BMWNA only served to confuse the matter even further, I was told, Your car is on a Ship, on its way to your dealership. Now what the hell is that supposed to mean, are they sending my car from the VPC to my dealership via barge up the Hackensack River? Something tells me that a truck might be a little faster. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

zhangqj · May 2002

shipo, if what you said was true, that is ED count toward a dealer's total sales for next year's allocation quota, then why would any dealer refuse to budge on ED like those here in the Bay Area? Specifically my local dealer told me the reason being that they wouldn't want to "prostitute" their cars. Hell, he didn't even have any 530 or 540 for me to test drive and sold every single one of them 3 - 6 month in advance (his words).

Incidentally, how is the DSP compared to regular audio in your 530i? Worth the money?

postoak · May 2002

That's a good question. When I was shopping, one or two salesmen told me that EDs DID come out of their allocation now. Of course these salesmen ALSO said that no one would be able to sell me a car for what I wanted to pay -- and that wasn't true, so why believe them?

shipo · May 2002

I learned the stuff about the allocation from the 3-Series board last year (from GuruMike, who was then a BMW sales manager at Cutter) and it was confirmed by my own salesman Mike Weber. Needless to say, I have reason to believe it. ;-)

As for the DSP, since I never gave the non-DSP 5er a try, I cannot offer an opinion. That said, I really like the DSP system, while in Europe, we gave Dark Side of the Moon and The Sky is Crying extended listens, and to my (non-audiophile) ear, it sounds GREAT!

Best Regards,
Shipo

P.S.

Over my last several car shopping periods, I have learned to study what is posted here on the internet, and then if a salesman contradicts what I have learned, I walk, NOW!

postoak · May 2002

I hate to admit being so skeptical but I never accept what any salesman says about ANYTHING if it could, in any way, affect his profit or the likelihood of making a sale.

dl7265 · May 2002

ive noticed that metallic is a free option on the 5er now,which suprises me that every other car i see is Alpine White or jet Black!! i would like to see some :

1.Blue Water
2.Sterling Grey
3.Slate Green
or even Black Sapphire < ala Shipo>

DL

shipo · May 2002

A few other items are also no cost or available as part of a package, for instance, the Integrated Alarm is built in on all 5ers and the UGO, which is part of the PP on the 525i and 530i, is standard on the 540i.

FWIW, unless perfectly clean, it is a little difficult to tell the difference between Jet Black and Black Sapphire Metallic. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · May 2002

After restraining myself all day long, to keep from calling my salesman every five minutes (remembering his As soon as it comes in, you will be the first to know, from yesterday), I got home tonight to find a message on my answering machine that my car had in fact already been delivered to the dealership sometime this morning. :-)

You can bet that the first thing tomorrow, I will be on the phone setting up a time for delivery.

For those of you keeping track, I dropped my car off at E.H. Harms in Munich on 24-Apr-2002, and it looks like I will pick it up tomorrow (23-May-2002), which works out to about as close to a month as you can get. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

dabimmer · May 2002

You know I'd be there before they open up for business very bright and early.
Congratulations. It will be quite worth the long wait. Many happy miles and many
happy smiles.

polo2928b · May 2002

I read everyone talking about ED, and certainly I do not have a clue about it, can someone give a brief explanation, thanks.

john01 · May 2002

European Delivery. You buy the car at the dealer and pick it up in Munich.

ek5 · May 2002

We "test drove" both systems - by far, the DSP is worth it. If I remember correctly, the standard stereo doesn't have subwoofers, so the base doesn't hold up. We only have about 350 miles on our 3 week old 530, but the DSP has made a big difference in our driving experience, IMO. Hope this helps.

pap5 · May 2002

By the time you read this, you'll have it safely home. Whether that's tonight or next week depends on how successfully you fought the urge to take the "scenic" route.

One month must have seemed like forever, but it's got to be as short a wait as you can get. Mine took almost 6 weeks.

pap5 · May 2002

European Delivery is a way to save significantly on the cost of a new BMW. A number of owners on this board have done it, and all have been happy with the process. You can find out more about it on the BMWUSA website.

joseph40 · May 2002

Re: ED..I concur with the opinion on taking a European Delivery. Fabulous program. We saved approximately $5700 off US MSRP (including tax savings), but we had to work to get it. Some dealers were not willing to discount below the BMW disount on the car, and one dealer went as far as to tell me that the dealership would get "in trouble" with BMW if they gave an additional discount. Needless to say, I walked.

Re: DSP...I have heard the standard stereo and was not impressed. In my opinion, DSP is a very good system for me. For the money, could it be better? Probably so. But, then you are talking about putting something in aftermarket, and that was not really an option for me. I am not an audiophile, but I do enjoy a good sound system. FWIW, I would by the DSP system again.

shipo · May 2002

Unfortunately, due to a heavy workload today, and three therapy sessions for my daughter, I will not be able to pick up my new car until this evening. :-(

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy · May 2002

Something tells me you're going to be out driving until all hours of the morning:)

karro · May 2002

Trying to understand what would be a good price on a 530 ED.

If I get 2760 under MSRP on the basic 530i for ED, is that a good deal? Also, is the norm to pay invoice on the options, MSRP on the options or something in between?

nyccarguy · May 2002

many here have gotten $1500 over ED invoice on everything (car & options too).

pap5 · May 2002

Well, a few more hours of anticipation then. Without question, important family matters come first. As for the heavy workload, it sounds like your boss is an inflexible SOB (oops, that's you, isn't it?).

jobie · May 2002

BMW better keep making great products, because they won't survive on customer service & relations. I leased a 2002 530i 5-sp last month, I had agreed to $1800 over invoice when I ordered it in February. Come delivery time, I notice my lease is about $12 more a month than I figured - not a huge deal in the sceme of things, but it is $430 over 36 mos. After questioning the salesmen extensively, he admits some additional dealer cost are added, the definition of "over invoice" is not what I think, etc., and my "invoice" amount off by $150 (although Edmonds, KBB, etc. all have the same value). Now it's about 8 pm on a Friday night, my beautiful 5er is ready to go, so I sign the paperwork and explain that we're not done with this transaction. Of course, I knew we were, as I got nowhere when I tried to recover my $430.

Then to top it off, I had planned the delivery to coincide with my 12 month BWMCCA membership so I could receive my $1,000 from BMWNA. My car came in early and the dealer made light of the 12-month deadline...I took delivery 18 days before my 1 yr anniversary. I sent in my request with a letter exlaining my circumstances, I'm a return customer, blah, blah, blah, and they reject my request with a form letter.

Do you think its worth the effort, or should I just let this issue die (and go elsewhere in 2005)?

Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now.

By the way, the car is incredible.

Thanks
Jim OB

snagiel · May 2002

I can empathize with your frustrations. I'm not sure how much leverage you have at this point, but here are my thoughts anyway:

Lease price: You said you agreed on "$1800 over invoice," but it's not clear if everything was put down on paper and all fees and costs were tallied up. If it was, and the dealer is now increasing the lease payments on a previously signed agreement, then you have reason to complain and escalate.

"Invoice" amount: I'm not sure if KBB and Edmunds have updated the invoice amounts per 1/1/02 (they probably have by now). I'm sure the right values are at www.eurobuyers.com. Check there.

BMWCCA discount: It sounds like the dealer was eager to make a sale before the end of the month and said whatever he had to to get you to bite. According to the BMWCCA offer, there is a 12 month minimum membership period required before "purchasing" (i.e. delivery). I would have told the dealer to sit on it for 18 days, but I suppose that's a moot point now. I'd speak with the general manager and explain it to him. I doubt the dealership will shell out $1000 out of guilt, but it's worth a shot.

Good luck.

bmwluver · May 2002

I got my choice down to the Audi and 530 also. Clearly, the BMW is a finer machine all around, while the Audi had a lean and gutsy quality that I liked. And living in Michigan, I had the same reservations about el Bimmer in the snow.

Took delivery on the 530 4 weeks ago here in Germany. The Euro delivery program is terrific and much easier than I had anticipated. Dealer in Michigan took $1500. off the list price and the Euro delivery saved me about another $3000.
A fringe benefit is driving the BMW where it was intended to be driven on the autobahns. Sheer delight and the faster ya go, the better it feels.

The car is a bit big for European city streets, but I'm coping fine. Also, parking is a [non-permissible content removed] sometimes because they generally park parallel with the curb. Also, the public garages are intended for something much shorter and narrower.
Had I thought of this, I would have definitely gotten the Park Distance Control option. Now, my wife has become my parking assistant helping me to guide Big Blue (Water Metallic) in the space.

Audis are seen more frequently here in Germany than they were before. Combination of price, smaller size, and quattro my friends tell me.

But all in all, I'm still happy to have gone with the 530. It is a fantastic machine and reeks with quality.

Check with me next winter in Michigan for next report in the first snow!

jzauberman · May 2002

Glad to hear you are happy with your 530. I've been out of the BMW fold/family since many years ago when I owned a Bavaria in Toronto. I too live in Michigan (greater Detroit area) and have been considering a 5 series for some time. I've been driving Nissans and Acuras for the last number of years. I have considered European Delivery but cannot seem to make any progress with the local dealer insofar as a discount on the ED list price. Am I correct that the dealer you purchased your 530 from discounted the ED list price by $1,500? If this is indeed the case would you mind sharing the name of the dealer and your salesperson with me? If you prefer not to post that information you can e-mail me at jzauberman@aol.com. The couple of times I broached this subject with my local dealer I was told that no discount off ED list would be considered. To add insult to injury I was also told not to expect anything more than a couple of hundred dollars off sticker if I purchased other than through ED. When I mentioned to the salesperson that there are other dealers within a couple of hours drive that would sell at a discount from the ED list price he made it clear to me that if I did this it would impact me in other intangible ways (I took this to mean service/warranty/goodwill type issues). This is precisely the type of thing that has kept me from buying another BMW -- in 14 years of Nissan/Acura ownership I have never experienced this type of arrogance/obnoxious behaviour. I'm considering the Infiniti G35 as my next car but would pay the incremental amount for a 530 if I could get a decent deal and had some comfort that I wasn't going to have dealer "issues" right from the get-go. Thanks for your help.

kirkd1 · May 2002

I have a 530 "En Route" that was ordered april 3rd. due about the 10th of june. what i did was go online and got the fax and e-mail addresses of all the dealers in calif (43 of em). what i did was contact all and asked for their best price and availability for the exact car i wanted white/black leather sport premium, dsp, fold down seats, xenon. they just about half of them came back with offers of discount off sticker. of course they wanted to sell me something off the floor but i stuck with what i wanted. i ended getting 1550 off sticker from a dealer just up the road. i know i got the best price. hope this helps.

530bmw · May 2002

Unfortunately, even educated consumers who walk into the showroom with knowledge about pricing get lots of bs from the dealer. They will lie through their teeth just to maximize the profit. Arrogance/obnoxious comes with territory for some of them, which I do not understand why or care to deal with. The good news is not all of them are like that if you do not limit yourself to your local dealers.

As you can see on this board, some people would drive a few hours to get a good deal on cars, I think it is worth it. Regardless of ED or US delivery, the truth is people on this board have been getting as low as $500 over invoice and noe bs. On average, I think $1500-2000 over invoice is pretty reasonable. Servicing your car should not be a problem since you can take your car to any dealer regardless of where you bought the car from. The only difference is some dealer will give you a loaner only if you bought the car from them.

It is pretty sad that some BMW dealers treat customer like dirt but the good thing is we do not have to put up with that by walking away. I have done that a few times myself, and I eventually bought a car from the dealer that treated me with respect and charged me $1700 over invoice.

jobie · May 2002

To follow-up my previous post, when I ordered the car in Feb, the salesman wrote up the order as "dealer invoice plus $1800". At the time we were trying to locate a car by doing a search of other dealers' inventory. Since I was flexible on some of the options, we didn't know at the time what the final invoice / sale price would end up being. I guess shame on me for not getting him to clarify more in writing at time that there would be no additional dealer-related fees - but he never mentioned them. I just didn't expect these BS games from a dealer who advertises itself as a quality, customer service-driven dealer (they also sell MB, Rover, Jags). Live and learn.

To rub salt in the wound, I just got a bill from BMW for $471 for excess mileage on my last lease - this is on top of the $430 (add'l fees) and $1,000 (rebate) that I'm out on my new 5.

Its tough to fight back when you're dealing with several entities - dealer, BMWNA, BMN Financial Serv and BMWCCA - they just point to the other guy.

Thanks
Jim

bluewater5 · May 2002

I would like some advice from the manual drivers out there in anticipation of my 530 next month. On my Subaru, I needed a new clutch at only 45k miles. I did have a short commute on local roads for a number of years, and I also used down shifting for breaking. Anyone want to comment on things to do or avoid on a 5-series stick?

For example, what do you do while idling at a stop light? I heard once that keeping it in gear with the clutch in was a bad idea. It is better to put it in neutral and let the clutch out if you are idling for a while. I am not sure of the reason.

I know that RPM shift points will greatly vary by situation and driver, but where do you shift "normally" while either accelerating or down shifting? After driving my Subaru for years, I revved more powerful manuals pretty high during test drives since I was not used to shifting that quickly.

I thought I would try to promote some discussion for those of us not getting away for the holiday weekend. Personally, I am refinishing my deck.

nyccarguy · May 2002

I recently just bought a car with a manual transmission (Honda Prelude) and from what I've gathered, it is best to have the car in neutral with your foot off the clutch while stopped at a light. I don't know why, but that;s the advice I'm getting from many people.

kirkd1 · May 2002

i dont know what will save your clutch but i know that bmw has a very sophisticated clutch system. my 88 325is had 213k miles on the original clutch with no signs of failing. i never side stepped but at the same time i didnt baby it either. i think you dont worry about it.

pap5 · May 2002

Agree with nyccarguy about keeping the clutch out and gearbox in neutral at lights. I'm pretty sure this saves wear (can't cite specifics), but if nothing else it's a safety measure -- your foot slips off the clutch pedal which you're in gear, you'll lurch forward.

I believe that downshifting as you approach a stop isn't necessary or recommended. Unless you match revs perfectly, you put a shock on the drivetrain with each lower gear. Also, you can replace a lot of brake pads for the cost of a clutch replacement. There's debate over how much difference downshifting vs. not really makes in the long run.

denverchris · May 2002

The clutch system has gotten VERY complicated over the years, like everything else. Used to be that putting the gear in neutral and releasing the clutch pedal would save wear on the "throw-out bearing". There's got to be something like that still in there, plus a lot of other stuff (like CDVs), but that wear shouldn't be much of a problem. Kirk's right, do it for safety.

The main wear on the clutch comes from getting going by revving the engine then engaging the clutch. That means the clutch has to develop enough friction to tame all that power (282 hp) and get all that weight moving (4500+ lbs). Friction wears it out. Simple enough: As a rule rev very little, engage the clutch, then stomp on it. No friction, no wear.

Ditto downshifting. If you match revs and speed, no wear on the clutch. One problem is that the Bimmer is so smooth and quiet that matching the revs "by ear" is hard. It also doesn't protest when you screw up, so it's easy to get sloppy, let the clutch do the work, and wear it out pretty quick.

Kirk is certainly a contender for the all-time longevity prize-- 213k on a clutch is nifty. That man knows how to shift. I imagine he downshifts, too. Right?

What's the shortest anybody's made a clutch last?

bluewater5 · May 2002

Thanks for the various comments on idling, etc.

For me, downshifting is half the fun of owning a stick, but it can push up the revs fairly quickly if you over do it. Normally, I would downshift to keep the revs in the same range as modest acceleration, e.g. 3000-3500 max at the start, then down to 2000 as I slow (on my Subaru).

Matching revs is more easily handled during acceleration than downshifting. To match during downshifting, it would seem strange to use the gas pedal while slowing down to bring the engine up to speed before engaging a lower gear. As I have been doing it, you can have a 1000-1500 bump in revs during a downshift.

snagiel · May 2002

I've read more than a couple posts on the bimmer.org boards about clutches (most have been on the 540, I believe) wearing out in the neighborhood of 30k miles. I wore mine out on my Passat 1.8T around the same mark, but then again I bought an AutoThority chip which boosted engine output and certainly put addition wear on the stock clutch. Plus, that was my first manual, so there were some growing pains involved.

pap5 · May 2002

Agreed that downshifting is half the fun of driving a stick, but question is when/why you do it. Generally, you downshift to put the engine in the right RPM band when you are slowing down (e.g. into a corner) but will continue moving. Applies especially if you are going to accelerate again -- in too high a gear, you have no punch, and you lug the engine. If you're slowing to a full stop, however, downshifting buys you nothing -- better, IMO, to coast, brake, then disengage the clutch before the engine starts bucking. To downshift while braking, you heel-and-toe, which admittedly is somewhat difficult to learn, and impossible if the pedals aren't spaced properly.

Matching revs isn't really a concept that applies to upshifting. You do it on downshifts to gently bring the engine to the higher RPM required for the lower gear -- you want the engine to drive the rest of the drivetrain, not vice-versa. When you upshift, each succeeding gear demands fewer RPMs, not more.

Lowest clutch replacement mileage: I bought my "midlife crisis" Corvette -- '74 small-block (L82) coupe -- in 1995 with 21,000 miles on the clock. As far as I could tell by documentation and condition/originality of key components, that reading was genuine or close. I had a new clutch in it by 24,000. I figure one of the previous owners just didn't know how to drive it properly. Even the small block cranked out plenty of torque, and the Corvette is not exactly lightweight. By contrast, the clutch on my '82 Datsun 280ZX, which I bought new, still feels strong at 115,000 miles. No world record, but a personal best.

bluewater5 · May 2002

Agreed that downshifting while slowing down on an onramp to be poised for acceleration onto the highway is pretty much necessary. I guess the question is using the engine to break, whether in the start of this same turn or headed for a stop. I have been using the engine to break in either situation out of habit for years. It was how my Dad drove a stick. From some of the comments here, doing it headed for a dead stop could be a bad idea.

Matching revs on upshifting requires less attention but could still be an issue. Ideally, the engine slows to the right RPM just as the higher gear is engaged. Take too long on the shift, and the engine has slowed too far and requires a little gas to be in the right range. You might hit this while waiting for the car in front of you to speed up after a light.

pap5 · May 2002

Yeah, you're right about upshifting at the critical point, before you drop too many revs. Shift too slowly and you have to goose it a touch to get the revs back up before coming off the clutch.

BTW, guessing the color of your 5 from your screen name, how do you like it? I haven't seen one yet on the road or in the showroom, but it looks nice based on the brochure color chip. Is it close to the ~Atlantic/Atlantis Blue available on Z3s? That was my wife's choice, but not available on the 5. There was no Blue Water in 2001, so we got Topaz, which looks great on an SP 5 with shadowline, and is not common at all.

bluewater5 · May 2002

Blue Water was even a late arrival for MY 2002, not coming out until October. I only saw one briefly since it was somewhat hard to find on a lot. I did not want a dark color that showed dirt too easily or something as common as silver. It is something of a silver with a blue tint. I'll let you know more after I see it in more light conditions after pickup on June 24. I have not seen Atlantic Blue.

BMW did drop from 14 colors for the 5 in 2001 to only 12 in 2002, and from 3 reds to none (in the US). Since it does not seem to be a production issue, I wonder why they limit the colors. Sure, it might save some trading between dealers, but the dealers order most cars with the colors they want, from what I understand. You can get 15 colors (or more under special programs?) in Germany, plus many more interiors.

kirkd1 · May 2002

i dunno but ive not been a fan of downshifting when not necessary since i got lazy and cheap in my old age. it seems to me that there is a time and place for spirited driving and i dont mind paying the price for that fun. but in my way of thinking i want my engine to be fresh as long as reasonably possible. i think that brake parts are cheaper and less painful to replace then the engine if thats the tradeoff. but heres the deal, you know that 213k mile clutch in my little 3, well i only replaced the brakes front 3 times and the rear twice. so i dunno where i stand.

dl7265 · May 2002

Although i dont have a manual on my BMW, i do on my Honda.It has original clutch with 145k on the clock. i admit ive been to numerous driving schools however none with a manual .
Depending on how far said stop sign or red light is i may or may not down shift but i dont want to ride the clutch either. In addition i also usually never remove fron 1st gear awaiting a light, i would have more problems "rolling back" on a hill than lurching forward, having said that like i mentioned after driving allmost 20 years ive never had any formal training on a manual.

Thoughts ?

DL

kirkd1 · May 2002

what is the recommendation from bmw for break in? can you still bahnstorm?

bluewater5 · May 2002

Per owner's manual:
"Engine and differential:
Up to 1,200 miles (2,000 km):
Drive at varying engine speeds and
road speeds, but do not exceed
4,500 rpm and the following road
speeds during this initial period:
BMW 525i, 530i: 100 mph (160 km/h)
BMW 540i: 106 mph (170 km/h)."

There are separate notes on tires, brakes, and clutch for 200 or 300 miles.

So, if 100/106 mph is not fast enough for you, cover 1200 miles first.

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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