BMW 5-Series Sedans

love2skicar · May 2002

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice on the 5 series and what to look for when picking up the car. Dealer finally located my car: 540 auto (not the sport) Sterling Gray/Black and it will hopefully be delivered from another dealer in 4-5 days. For those shopping, i am paying approx $2000 less than MSRP or $2300 over invoice that i calculated using the web (without any additional advertising). Probably not a great deal since the dealer didn't have the car on the lot and I wanted to buy from him, but hope it's not terrible either. I'll keep you posted.

multiplechoice · May 2002

With a 36 mo lease on my 540iA, and assuming the E60 U.S. debut in the 4th quarter of 2003. probably as an '04 model, I too (like Shipo) will be shopping for a new vehicle in the 2nd quarter of '05 which would be during the second year of the E60 production. Many are leary about buying a vehicle first year into production (limited ability to negotiate pricing and early production bugs). By the way, does anyone know when the E39 were first available for ED? Was it soon after its debut in 1996? Just curious.

karro · May 2002

For those of you who remember some of my earlier postings, I was debating between the following two choices: buying from Dealer #1 who was giving me a bad deal (price wise) but no fees or hidden costs, was located close to my house and had the car that I wanted in the lot vs. buying from Dealer #2 who was giving me a great price after locating a car at another dealership but was not giving me straight answers about fees or when would the car be available.

I decided to go back to Dealer #2 and pin them down to get answers, since their price was great. In addition to asking about a delivery date, I asked about mileage on the car. He couldn't tell me how many miles on the car, and did not want to commit to a delivery date. We said that we would give him a deposit with the condition that they specify a delivery date (we even offered to add additional days to whatever timeframe they gave us). A few days went by, and we got a million and one excuses from the salesman on why it was taking him a long time to get the info, from "the sales guy from the other dealer is out of the office" to "the shipping timeframes are not under our control", etc. After days of delays, I was informed that the car that they had originally located had been sold, but they had found another car. This other car did not meet the specifications that we had given the salesperson, so I was very disappointed that the he would try to persuade to get a different car altogether. Needless to say, we did not even talk about the fees because we were done with that dealer.

While this was going on, I was still in conversations with Dealer #1. I finally bought the 530ia from Dealer #1 for $2000 over invoice. We did the paperwork over fax and telephone on one day, and we picked up the car the following business day. They had the car ready, and gave both my spouse and I car "training" on two separate days because we did not pick up the car together.

In addition to the items listed by snagiel, I got a Technology pamphlet that describes the concept, technology and advantages of features such as Rain sensor, xenon headlights, VALVETRONIC, Automatic transmission with Steptronic, etc. I also got a flyer with info about OBD (on-board diagnostic). No pamphlet for tire warranty.

Again, thanks to all.

karro · May 2002

The reason why I decided to go with the current model is that, for the most part, if I like the external appearance/internal layout of an existing model I will not like the "next generation". I might warm up to the following generations, but I would find myself longing for that original model which I liked. So, as soon as the rumor mill started saying that there might be a new model within the next year or so, I made my decision to buy one right now.

Also, changes to the engine always make me nervous. As many have posted before, I would want to wait a couple of years to give the manufacturer a chance to identify solutions for the issues that they find.

snagiel · May 2002

Congratulations. Hope you enjoy your new ride. And don't feel bad; I paid $2500 over invoice (although I was in a tougher position).

tigger33 · May 2002

Is it possible to convert to xenons in the after-market? I tried to add them, but I was told that production on my car had already started and that no changes could be made.

philipnow · May 2002

I've seen a few 5 series recently without the model designation on the back. I personally like the clean look without the 530i or whatever. Does anyone how you go about getting one that way?

musher2 · May 2002

Bought a 323i two years ago and while I really like the car, it's a bit small (I have to pull the drivers seat up several inches when the kids are in the back seat...arrggh). So I've been thinking about upgrading to a 5 and cruised through a few hundred of the postings here to see what's doing in 5er-land. Even though I was planning on waiting 'til next year to make the change, I got kinda nervous about the possible (probable?) changes to the E60, so what the heck...I just ordered a 530i 5sp Oxford SP, PP, CWP, Xenon, DSP.

Now comes the agonizing waiting part (which is all too vivid a memory from when I ordered the 323 in 2000). Interestingly, my dealer was able to get me a June build date (versus July) -- because I wanted a manual transmission! Apparently the vast majority of 5s are auto, so another dealer happily swapped his (presumably) less desirable June "manual" slot for my dealer's July "auto" slot. As I wouldn't consider anything but a stick for a car like this, I'm pleased that my preference actually accelerated the process. It also provided a great rationalization to my wife and daughter as to why I ordered yet another manual car!

Thanks to all posters for the plethora of great info. I'm really looking forward to getting behind the wheel of this car. C'mon, July!!

cmr530i · May 2002

My brother took the 525 designation off himself. He says he just "worked" at it(wiggling it and gently sliding an envelope down the back of it to loosen). Says it is just held by a bit of gummy substance and easy to remove.

john01 · May 2002

Aftermarket Xenon is probably one of the most popular modifications out there for the E39. There are 2 versions, one with the orange turn signal reflector for the US, and the European style clear reflector. The European style is not DOT compliant and technically illegal, but people don't seem to care. They cost about $1350 to $1500, depending on who you talk to. If you pick it up in Europe, I am told it costs about little over half of that price. If your car does not have the factory Xenon, you may also need new wiring harness and ballasts.

royalred · May 2002

Confused about the recommended tire pressure for my 2001 530iA. I have Continental 225/55 R 16 95 H M+S tires. The manual seems to recommend 33 psi front and 41 psi rear for US/Canada, and 29/33 for light loads and 33/41 for heavy loads outside of US/Canada. Why do they recommend different pressure for US/Canada and rest of the world. Or am I reading the manual wrong? What is the recommended pressure? I mostly drive alone or with one passenger and no luggage.

snagiel · May 2002

cmr530i's advice may very well work, but most threads about this have usually recommended intermittently heating up the badge with a hair dryer and working some dental floss behind it. For the remaining adhesive, you can use a tar remover.

riez · May 2002

royalred... What does the tire pressure information plate in the door say? That, rather than info in the owner's manual, is normally the one to go by. (The plate is the best current info for your specific car.) That and the info on the tire itself. Never inflate less than minimum or more than maximum. But in most cases there is an acceptable range for tire pressure. You can fiddle with it a bit to see what works best for you depending upon how you drive, loads you carry, and your preference for comfort and handling.

shipo · May 2002

It seems that you and Jim52 and I have a lot in common. Jim and I just upgraded our 328i(s) to 530i(s) and you are in the process of. Furthermore, my new 530i has exactly the same options as yours except for the CWP, which I have no use for (if we go skiing, we will take our MiniVan). Congratulations on you (pending) new car, I am sure that you will love it.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jim52 · May 2002

I just got back from vacation in Northern Italy. I noticed that most of the Mercedes and BMW's I saw had no model designation on the back. Does anyone know why this is? Just curious. I was also suprised at how many additional models (especially MB) were available there.

john01 · May 2002

Isn't it fun to be on this side of the pond and see the kind of cars here? I, too, have noticed that most people choose to remove the badges here. It seems that is an option when you order the car. I might be way off here but most cars without the badge tend to be the ones with smaller-engines, whereas cars with larger engines tend to have them in place. Some people remove them for "stealth" look, but most seem to enjoy showing off the bigger-engined cars

As for the addiotional models available, let's see:

3: 316, 318, 320d, 320, 325, 330d 330
5: 520, 525d, 525, 530d, 530, 535, 540

I think I may have missed some, but they do enjoy more selections. However, most of the smaller engines may not make much sense in the states, perhaps with the increasing traffic, they may. Over on this side, you can't drive fast (in Germany, at least) in the city anyway, where you are usually limited to 30 mph. Even on the autobahn, people don't seem to care much about how fast you get to speed. They just buried the right foot and go.

nyccarguy · May 2002

Congrats to all who are soon taking delivery of your new 5s! Musher...Good call on the 5 speed. If you all who can afford a 5 now buy it with a stick, then when young 'uns like myself reach financial status to afford a 5, maybe they'll keep making them:) Love2Ski...You'll be happy with that 540...congrats on your purchase.

If I were in the position that most of you are in now, I'd go for the current E39 (especially if you lease). I'm a fan of the body style, the 2001 facelift, and the fact that it has been out since late 1996 (as a 1997 model) and is probably close to a perfect car (as far as refinement and bugs go). I prefer "tried and true" to "new and improved."

If you lease you can get the second model year of the E60 if you like or buy out the lease on the current E39 and have a perfectly good car.

The E60 (when the styling "grows" on us) will most definitely have price gouging (at MSRP for a while or maybe even the dreaded dealer markups), waiting lists, and bugs that need to be worked out of a new car in the first model year. I'm also the type of guy who could care less about being the first one on the block to have one.

My best friend on the other hand would go crazy if he bought a car and the next model year the wheels would change or the engine pumped out 5 more horsepower (not that bad, but you get the picture). He was in the market for a new car in November and chose to lease a fully loaded Audi A4 3.0 Q 6 speed to a 525i with a 5 speed, CWP, Lthr, & SP.

Different strokes for different folks.

pap5 · May 2002

Per John01, leaving it off the car does seem to be an option, at least in Europe. When we first glimpsed our 530i at the Friemann delivery center last July, I did a double take, for parked right next to it was its [almost] identical twin, being delivered to a gentleman from New York. The one superficial difference was that the "530i" was omitted from the trunk lid, and he was none too happy about it.

Funny thing, since that morning I have not seen another topaz blue 530 with SP.

royalred · May 2002

The door panel gives the same numbers as in the manual. The reason I was thinking about this was because it seems to suggest lower pressues for light loads outside of US/Canada. I was wondering if I could use those numbers as I drive mostly alone and expect a better ride. Also wanted to see what tire pressures other owners of 530 where using.

musher2 · May 2002

You're right -- the Cold Weather Pkg is certainly an option with limited regional appeal. As I'm living in MN right now, both the heated seats and the headlight washer are pretty utilitarian (I've got the heated seats on my 323). That said, I did slip one other item onto the 530 order sheet that probably comes under the heading of 'completely frivolous', and that's the power sunshade for the rear window.

Does anyone have one? And actually use it? I'll admit I'm an avowed gadget freak, hard-pressed to resist the temptation of this kind of thing. And besides, what's another $575 on a car that will cost nearly $50K? ;-) I just hope the #&%$ thing doesn't bug me in the long run!

john01 · May 2002

The power shade was the single most important option on my wife's list. With a baby in the back, it saves us from having to fiddle with those detachable shades which never stays put.

nyccarguy · May 2002

My parents had a rear sun shade on their 1998 CLK which they recently departed with. They used it exactly once, when they got home from the dealership after taking delivery. I can see how it would be useful for those of you with yung children.

ek5 · May 2002

Thanks for listing your manuals -- I also got the Technology brochure mentioned by Karro.

bluewater5 · May 2002

I downloaded and started reading a 5 series manual. One of the first significant items I hit (page 10) was a warning about variations in US gasoline quality and trying different brands if you have problems. I usually just bought the cheapest available, but in my current car, it probably didn't matter.

So, let me ask this experienced group: What brand of gas do you use? Does it really matter? Do you see differences when using different brands?

bs530 · May 2002

How long have people been waiting for there cars from the time they get to port in NY and the time it is ready at the dealer. I just found out that my car has been sitting in Germany for 15 days and is now on the way. It will be in port on the 11th. It's a good thing I have to take the family on vacation for a week before it gets here. Also, what type of car wash is recommended by everyone. I guess I need to baby this Black beauty!

love2skicar · May 2002

I have had some expensive lessons with poor quality gasolines when traveling in other cars (83' RX7 fuel system had to be rebuilt and was never the same; 92 Porsche 911 took 6 trips over two years to dealer to fix a corrupted sensor). So, I would definitely stick to premium grades with major brands and certainly avoid anything with any additives (I believe ethanol is the name of the most common additive -- this eats fuel lines). Among the majors, my cars have always seemed to run smoother on Shell, but it's not always that easy to find when you're on the road so I limit it to Shell, Exxon or Mobil. The few extra cents are certainly worth it in the end. Hope that helps.

mschukar · May 2002

anything claiming to be an "all-in-one" product is usually a poor compromise

I disagree. I applied Klasse All-in-One to our new 325i and our 5 year old Volvo (waxed only once). Of course the BMW looked great, but the Volvo looked like new again! I washed and "waxed" the Volvo wagon in under two hours. I see no reason to spend 4 hours on my car when this stuff is available.

See another review here: http://www.deckowski.com/wax%20off/results.htm

-murray

jemiller · May 2002

Why don't cars in Italy have model designation badges?

The 523i drivers don't want anyone to know what they don't have, and the 540i drivers don't want anyone to know what they have. Traditionally, in Italy "BMW" translates as "target".

I debadged our 540i (fishing line and 3M spray adhesive remover), and ordered our M5 without insignia (on the M5 that means plain side moldings behind the front wheels as well as no trunklid badge.) But I'm in California, so the only motivation is personal preference.

Actually, when we picked up the M5 (Euro Delivery) I bought 520i and 523i badges to retrofit our cars with, but haven't yet done it...

love2skicar · May 2002

my friend said his 530 had a ski bag but no folding rear seats??

i am confused by the brochure and web site; it says a ski bag is an option

"Ski bag (included with split-folding lockable rear seats; requires leather upholstery)"

i was under the impression that you didn't get a ski bag UNLESS you ordered the folding rear seats

can you order a 540 with a ski bag but WITHOUT the folding rear seats?

i may have narrowed my search and paid too much, as all i need is a ski bag and not the folding rear seats which were much harder to find. too late for me now but it might help someone else.

thanks!

riez · May 2002

It might cost a bit more, but I swear by clear Amoco Ultimate in my 540i6 and wife's 323iA. In my local area it is 92 octane. Elsewhere it is mainly 93 octane. Amoco stations are slowly turning into BP stations. Praying BP keeps the Ultimate.

riez · May 2002

love2skicar... According to the 86-page full color 2002 BMW 5 Series brochure,

Under "Interior seating and trim" section of the "Standard Equipment/Optional Equipment" charts it shows the following optional for all 5 Series:

"Split-folding lockable rear seats (includes ski bag; requires leather upholstery)"

And under "Comfort and convenience" it shows the following optional for all 5 Series:

"Ski bag (included with split-folding lockable rear seats; requires leather upholstery)"

There are also two pictures in the "Interior/Equipment" section. First says "Split-folding lockable rear seats allow you to load long objects in the trunk by folding down one or both rear seats, as needed. (includes optional ski bag; requires leather upholstery)", and the second says "Ski bag helps to allow the clean, secure transportation of skis, ski poles, snowboards and other long, thin objects. (included with optional split-folding rear seats; requires optional leather upholstery)." Each picture has an icon indicating the equipment is optional.

The 1998 brochure shows same. My '98 540i6 has the optional rear split-fold seat. I've never checked out the ski bag. But I love the flexibility if I need to carry longer items (e.g., to take kid's bike to gas station to put air in tires).

cmr530i · May 2002

I find the rear sunshades invaluable. I use them daily when driving with the rising and setting sun coming in from the rear(I cannot stand that glare you can get from the low sun or when the sunlight bounces off the windshield of a large vehicle behind you)and also when parked in the sun at work. I think in the long run they will help protect the leather in the back of the car.
Of course, my passengers love them too. No more complaints from my kids either about the sun in their faces.

tlmmhowell · May 2002

Royalred- I have 2 E39's and I started out at the lower pressure amounts. Then I tried the higher amounts- rougher ride, no noticable MPG improvements, but there probably was some. I went back to the lower pressure amounts and I like that much better. Interesting, my '99 540 doesn't have that "outide US/Canada" designation like my '00 528. I pretend I'm living in Europe with my 528! Best regards.

royalred · May 2002

Thanks tlmmhowell. I will try out the lower pressures and see if I can notice any improvement in ride quality.

musher2 · May 2002

Thanks for the feedback on the sunshade. Sounds like my penchant for gadgets may pay off with a practical feature after all! I often drive to work around sunrise or sunset, so there should be no shortage of opportunities to use them.

dl7265 · May 2002

A 523i badge on a M5 what a sleeper hehe.

dabimmer · May 2002

Started out using 29F and 33 R on my 530IA with 17" wheels and Primacy Pilot tires
and it dawned on me that on the door jamb the information posted there was
33 F and 41 R. I tried this combo and it works real fine but I do not like the jittery
bouncy ride over uneven roadways, so... I went to 33F and 36 R and it's just
perfect for me and my type of driving. I'm usually alone or at best just two of us
and no luggage . I noticed with 29 lb in front the steering effort was too high and
my wife balked at driving, she said it required too much effort. With 33 F, no
problem, steers much better and less effort is required. Just wanted to pass this
info along for what it is worth.

love2skicar · May 2002

Thanks Reiz, I have checked several sites option price lists (BMW, Edmunds, Carpoint) and it seems that there is no separate option for a ski bag. Unless the ski bag comes standard, I think you have to order the folding rear seat to get it.

Does anyone have performance specs for the 540 Auto Non Sport? I have ordered one after having driven my friends 540 6 speed sport which I liked very much, but have not been able to drive one to see the difference. Seems like all the automotive tests are for the sport version.

Thanks!

530bmw · May 2002

FWIW, according to J.D. Power BMW ranks third on newly initial quality (customer's satifaction on first 90 days) survey. The first and second are Toyota and Honda, respectively.

riez · May 2002

love2skicar... There are a lot of published tests of 540iA non-Sport.

C&D tested one in their 12/96 issue. This was a 4-car comparison test. BMW 540iA non-Sport came in second, behind MBE420, but did win most performance measures. 0-60 mph in 6.3 seconds. 1/4 mile in 14.9 seconds at 97 mph. Top speed governed at 128 mph. Braking from 70 mph in 175 feet. Pulled .77g on 300-ft skidpag. 58.4 mph in their lane change maneuver.

Compare this to C&D's 5-car comparison test in 11/98 issue of 540iA Sport. Came in first. 0-60 mph in 6.1 seconds. 1/4 mile in 14.7 seconds at 98 mph. Top speed governed to 131 mph. 175 feet braking 70-0 mph. Pulled .81g. Went a blistering 64.1 mph in lane-change maneuver.

Motor Trend tested a 540iA non-Sport in 10/96. 0-60 mph in 6.2 seconds. 1/4 mile in 14.6 seconds at 98 mph. 60-0 mph braking in 129 feet. Pulled .80g. 63.2 mph in their 600-ft slalom.

Road & Track has at least two published tests of 540iA non-Sport. 9/96 comparison against MBE420. 0-60 mph in 6.7 seconds. 1/4 mile in 15.0 seconds at 98 mph. Pulled .78g and did 58.3 mph in 700-ft slalom. Then again in 2/98 4-car comparison. 0-60 mph in 5.9 seconds. 1/4 mile in 14.3 seconds at 99.6 mph. Pulled .79g and 60.0 mph thru 700-ft slalom.

vic19 · May 2002

I turned in my 5 after about 40,000. I always bought super premium gas but at the "cheapest" price I could find. It never bulked at any gas.

I learned, I guess from Consumer Reports, that it was a waste of energy to wax a modern car. But when I turned by BMW in, I parked it next to a bunch of new cars and they shined while mine looked kind of dead. The car was always garaged so I don't think the painted deteriorated.

Any opinions? What kine of wax do you use, if any?

shipo · May 2002

I start with:

Klasse All-In-One

Followed by:

Klasse High Gloss Sealant

Best Regards,
Shipo

P.S.

When I turned in my 328i (39,800 miles), it shined like the new cars around it, maybe it was the extra 200 miles on your car. ;-)

nosho · May 2002

FWIW, a simulation comparison between the two:

3.15 diff (sport)
zero to ...
30___2.06
40___3.02
50___4.54
60___6.06
70___8.18
80___10.34
90___12.94
100__16.58
110__20.46
120__24.94
130__30.70
140__37.70
150__43.90
160__52.34
1/4 mile 14.64 @ 95.4

2.81 diff (non-sport)
zero to ...
30___2.26
40___3.22
50___4.78
60___6.30
70___8.16
80___10.66
90___13.20
100__16.32
110__20.68
120__25.52
130__31.22
140__38.68
150__50.38
160__61.16
1/4 mile 14.80 @ 95.4

shipo · May 2002

I just read over on: http://www.gergin.com/index2.htm that, according to their sources, "BMW will offer the iDrive system on the (E60) 5s as an option..."

Well, assuming that I ultimately learn to love the looks of the E60, there may be hope for me yet regarding the next generation car equipped with normal components AND a manual gearbox. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

metmdx · May 2002

Thanks for the input on the financing....I found that on the website at least, right now it's 3.9 for 60 mos on CPO's. Another question....if you buy a CPO from the dealer, do they normally give you a loaner for scheduled service as they would a new purchase?
TIA,
metmdx

riez · May 2002

metmdx... The two BMW dealers nearest me do for people who bought their CPO cars from them. Buth they hose you if you bought from another BMW dealer. (This issue really gets me mad when I compare BMW to Lexus or Infiniti. Unlike BMW, they seem to realize that people move around, etc. I do miss the old Infiniti-level of service. I was treated like a king even though I bought one Infiniti from a Chicago dealer hundreds of miles away.)

royalred · May 2002

I have used products from Zymol; Carbon Wax (for dark colored cars) and HD Cleanse. Liked the results. Smells great when applying :-). A bit more expensive compared to competing products.

jhox85 · May 2002

I know that the seats are leather, but what about the steering, side panels and the dash board?

multiplechoice · May 2002

For those of you that wish to find out what products the car care/detailing enthusiasts (fanatics?) are using, go to this site:

http://www.autopia-carport.com/

shipo · May 2002

Hmmm, good question, I think that the door panels are leather, and I know the dash is made of a MUCH more durable synthetic, which had gotten very favorable reviews by the folks that have ridden in my car. That said, in the 525i and the 530i, leather seats are an extra cost option, either as a stand-alone, or as part of the Premium Package.

Best Regards,
Shipo

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