BMW 5-Series Sedans

john01 · June 2002

I live in Berlin for now and drive a US spec 530 I picked up about 4 months ago. It is possible to buy and drive a non-US spec car and ship it to the US and go through the Federalization yourself. However, most people agree that it is not worth the time, effort, and money. Unless it is some sort of a special model that cannot be found anywhere. Check out below link for more detailed info. One exception, if you are importing a car that is more than 15 years old, it is exempted from the Federalization requirement.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/

kirkd1 · June 2002

i have 600 miles on a new 530ia sport and your dilemma is one i had. i made my choice from personal experience with the sport seats in my old '88 325is. sounds stupid but faith was the other helping input. let me tell you that after this short time i feel i made a good choice. the lumbar feels properly adjusted. and i wouldn't trade the side bolsters for anything anyway (not to mention the must have 3 spoke steering wheel and the good lookin wheels)

bimmer12 · June 2002

Hey, just placed my order for a 2003 530i-pp,sp,fold-dwn seats, nav, xenons...Very excited and hope to be in Deutchland for Oktoberfest. Shipo, bluewater5, snagiel, nyca-thanks a lot for the recommendations and assistance in making this happen.

As for the snow tires issue posed- good question...Anyone recommend a rim/tire package? I'll have to check Tire Rack/Bimmer magazine..

Kind Regards!

bimmer12 · June 2002

I was very fortunate to compare a sportpkg 530i vs a non-spt and this was an issue that I was debating as well. Was the sport pkg worth the additional $2k+ premiums on pure aesthetics alone?

I have to agree with the person who said that it's more personal preference. If you're into driving like most of us on this site, you will notice the differences in the sp vs non-spt. You might want to factor in your location- bad roads(wheel denting), snow(changing tires), etc.

I'm sure the comfort seats are amazing but I loved the sport seats in the 530i. I actually found the side bolsters actually made me more comfortabe then the seats in my current 5. I think that the only issue that may arise is if you have an extremely wide frame...Otherwise, I think the spt pkg is something to consider

nyca · June 2002

bimmer12, how could you place a 2003 order when the pricing isn't set yet? Are you just working off a "X $$$s above invoice" price, or do you have firm numbers? I am most interested in how the PP will be priced now that the sunroof is standard. What color did you go with?

bimmer12 · June 2002

Sorry, I should have specified further.. I reserved my order-slot for the fall and the first of the 2003 models. The prices for the 2003 models aren't out as of yet but they are expected to be released in mid-july. My deal was made on 2002 prices and contigent that I'm satisfied with the price disparities with the new model. as soon as I know the changes in price(pp, etc), I will post it..

As for the color, I have a few weeks to decide but I ended up selecting toledo blue/with gray leather... I'm still torn with the steel gray/black combo and also am curious if any new colors will be added for 2003..

Will keep you posted....

ayjay1 · June 2002

Eerie! YES, it was King BMW in Freehold. They had me on that same corny 1 mile loop 3 times, talking about some insurance reasons for such a paltry test ride. How'm I supposed to feel the juice of a 540 if I'm on some corny 25 mph side road?

ayjay1 · June 2002

Thank you for your feedback. I suspected that this proposition was unrealistic. If folks could get Bimmers at such a reduced $ over there, everyone would cross the pond in a heartbeat. However, if you ever DO hear of some outrageously priced deal, please let me know ;0)

Thanks again for your response.

john01 · June 2002

Actually, used car prices here is quite low, compared to the US. After 2-3 years, most cars will be lucky to sell at 50% of the original price, if not lower. It depends on the model, of course, but BMW, MB, AUDI, they all are quite inexpensive by our standard.

ocuihs · June 2002

Redesign 2004 5-series
Availability 2003 Fall

nyca · June 2002

Didn't hear about an new colors for 2003 E39. I was going to go with Toledo Blue, not I may be wavering. I like Orient Blue, but you can't get it on the 5. I may consider bluewater.

ayjay1, did you try Circle BMW in Tinton Falls? I bought my E36 from them, small dealership, friendly.

riez · June 2002

Yesterday I stopped by the Mid-America Motorplex, just 15 miles south of Omaha right off I-29, to watch about 50 BMWs of a lot of years and models have fun on this new track. 2.23 miles long and 40-feet wide. Just opened this year.

Sponsored by the Iowa Chapter of BMW CCA (www.bmwia.org). They are going to hold another one on September 20-22 at the same track.

I had my kids with me as wife had to work, so I couldn't participate. But I did speak to quite a few drivers. Everyone from a current race-only E46 to an '02 540iA Sport to an '98 540i6 to a '94 540iA to an '88 M3, and a '74 Bavarian. Everyone was polite and loved to talk about their cars.

There were also a few very hot Porsche, Mustangs, and Corvettes. Even one old VW Golf GTI.

Best times were about 1 minute 53 seconds from the hottest Porsches and heavily modified Mustangs. Couple hot BMWs were under 2 minutes. Most of the drivers were out having fun and weren't pushing their cars too hard. The '88 M3 was at 2:09 when I timed him. Everyone was having a ball.

Seemed like a lot of fun. Now I have to convince my wife to let me go next time. $250 plus have to get the right kind of driving helmut.

riez · June 2002

August 2002 issue of European Car, Notes from Europe, discusses future BMWs. Talks about "the big news for 2003 will be the reveal of all-new 5 Series at the Frankfort Show." List of engine choices:

2.2L I-6
2.5L I-6
3.0L I-6
3.6L V-8 (direct injection)
4.4L V-8 (direct injection)
"four diesels"
3.0L I-6, twin turbo-charged (380 HP)

For M5 & M6, 500 HP V-10

sambeam · June 2002

HI Guys:

Can people share their experience on european
delivery [525iA] ?

1) Do dealers (Silicon Valley, CA) offer price
BELOW Euro. MSRP in that case?
2) Any idea about what $$ MARKDOWN should
be expected from European MSRP, if at all,
in San Francisco/Bay area?
3) Does one still pay Destination Charge?

THANKS I.A.

530bmw · June 2002

I have a pin head size chip on my hood and would like to fix or touch up without screwing it up. I know I have to get a touch-up paint but do not know how to apply it. Any advice or point me to a website that give instruction? thanks.

riez · June 2002

bimmer12... Are you wanting to lease a BMW for your commuter car? Have you thought about leasing a CPO BMW? Believe you can do that. Find a low-options '99 323i. Or a '98 3 Series.

snagiel · June 2002

Sorry, I'm not from the Valley area, but in general:

1) and 2) Knowledgable (and eager) dealers will discount below ED MSRP. My suggestion is to just call every dealership in the area. Preferably, work with a dealer (whose location is convenient for you and) who has done ED in the past. This will increase the odds they'd be willing to negotiate on the ED pricing, and will ensure a more seamless process (since there's a fair bit of paperwork involved with an ED purchase). I've heard of $1000-$2000 over ED invoice prices from many people.

3) There's still the standard destination charge ($625, I think?), but there's no additional destination charges for delivery to your US dealer.

snagiel · June 2002

Here's one article: http://www.carcareonline.com/paint_chips.html

As an aside, I recommend the XPel hood/bumper/fender "clear bra" protection kit. Since applying mine six months ago, I don't have a single paint chip.

bimmer12 · June 2002

NYCA- I wish they had orient blue- I was so disappointed when this color left the 5 series line up..

I need another car in the household for commuting to work and was interested in leasing something for about $2k down and $300 a month..., 12k Any suggestions?

530bmw · June 2002

thanks for the info. Are you happy with the bra and its appearance, is it hard to install?

snagiel · June 2002

With all due respect to the holy BMW marque (and riez), I'd recommend instead the Subaru WRX. At $24.5 base, your payments will probably be just slightly north of $300 a month, but it'll be the funnest new car--by far--you'll find for that money.

snagiel · June 2002

Overall, I'm very happy with my the Xpel system. I guess I take it for granted, but every time I see a post like yours--or one about how someone's fog light or headlight was cracked by a highway pebble--I'm thankful I have it.

Its appearance is fine; certainly better than either the traditional "heavy" bra or the inevitable paint chips. The installation--which I chose to do myself--went relatively well. If you enjoy working with your hands, are looking to save money, and have some skill and a lot of patience (it probably takes 5-7 hours total for the complete headlight/bumper/fender/hood kit), I think it's do-able. I'm sure my results would be more professional the next time I do it, but it's certainly a decent job. For a professional installer in your area, I'm guessing they'd charge $200-300.

If you order (and choose to install yourself), be sure to ask them for the free instructional video. Go over it--and the written instructions--several times to be sure you're comfortable with it before starting. And be aware the headlight kit comes free if you order all the other pieces (I don't think they advertise this on their site). Let me know if you have other questions.

sambeam · June 2002

HI Bimmer12:

Some more questions on your 2003 order.

1) Wuld all dealers sell 2003 model?
2) Did you say you ordered one for SEPT pickup
in Germany? Is it possible to do so?
3) What has changed for 2003 525iA model?
Is there
a place where I Can find more info on specs/
color/proces? [shape/style is SAME I think]
4) Seems like it's better to wait for 2003 model
right now, rather than getting 2002. If I go
for European Delivery right now, would I
AUTOMATICALLY get 2003 model?

THANKS!!!

nyca · June 2002

The best deal I've seen is on 2002 Honda Accords, they are looking to move them because the 2003 will be a re-fresh on it.

riez · June 2002

snagiel... I'm shocked, absolutely shocked that you would recommend a different marque. And an AWD platform. Not RWD. Heresy! Where is the BMW inquisition when you need it? (Just kidding. I'm sure the WRX is a nice car. But I'd rather lease a CPO BMW.)

snagiel · June 2002

Hehe. My preference is for a new car versus a used one (regardless of who certifies it and however many points were in the inspection). And I've never driven the WRX either, but from reading reviews like this, I don't hesitate to recommend it as an alternative. While I love a good RWD platform, I have no philosophical problem with a proper AWD system. Especially for a daily driver/"beater" car which is more likely to see foul elements, AWD can't be beat.

stl540 · June 2002

Riez - Here are the RPMs at the various speeds. Of course, these are not 'exact' as my eyes cannot distinguish the RPMs on the manual tach as precise as a digital tach. They are close enough.

55 MPH - 1800 RPM
65 MPH - 2150 RPM
75 MPH - 2450 RPM
85 MPH - 2750 RPM
100 MPH - 3200 RPM

These RPMs are based on the BMW speedometer. I noticed (as well as other posts on this board) that the BMW speedo is 4-5 MPH over the true speed. A road I frequently travel has a speed gun hooked up to a large display to show your speed. The radar is always 4-5 MPH less than my speedometer. I have gone through the radar in 2 other cars (wife's Acura MDX and my 99 Jeep GC) and the speedo and radar were exactly the same.

bimmer12 · June 2002

Let me see if I can help you out with your questions regarding the 2003 530i E.D. order

1) Would all dealers sell 2003 model?

Sure, you'll be surprised regarding how quickly you can get one... I was told if I wanted a 2002, I could pick it up in Germany at the end of this month to early August. European Delivery is something dealers do on the side as it doesn't affect inventory (inventory costs money)..So, they won't really stress a 2002 over 2003 but I would hold on for a 2003 since a month makes a difference in depreciation down the road. This is if you can last that long..

2) Did you say you ordered one for SEPT pickup
in Germany? Is it possible to do so?
Late September to Early October-more likely the latter... I booked mine early because I want the car sooner. You can get a 2002 by the end of july~!

3) What has changed for 2003 525iA model?
Is there
a place where I Can find more info on specs/
color/proces? [shape/style is SAME I think]

I will know more about price changes and model changes in mid-July. For now, my dealer mentioned and someone posted this earlier as well:
a) navigation will be dvd based rather than cd
b) rear head protection system
c)an external input interface on the head unit for an external player
d) sunroof standard, not part of PP
e) 540i sport pkg will really be a sport pkg with sportier wheels etc..

2003 specs aren't officially available yet but there shouldn't be any major changes..

4) Seems like it's better to wait for 2003 model
right now, rather than getting 2002. If I go
for European Delivery right now, would I
AUTOMATICALLY get 2003 model?

Not at all- you can still get a 2002 model until end of september. Not many changes especially if you're not going with the navigation.

Hope this helps!

bimmer12 · June 2002

Snagiel- Subaru WRX is a nice suggestion since it has all wheel drive and I would love to have a car that has the flexibility to be used on ski trips etc.. But biy, it is hideous as sin..It is amazing how ugly the car is but then it is for commuting and I do have the 530i sport to look at. I'll look into it... CPO 323i is nice but the resale on those cars are unbelieavable and I couldn't imagine paying $300 a month on a lease for a car with 35k+ mileage...
The Accord is ok as well and there are some great deals on it but I think I'm going to open the paper, identify a great lease, and take it into the dealer...thanks

sambeam · June 2002

Thanks Bimmer12:

VERY informative answer Thanks, I am very surprised to hear that 2002 cars are available

in a month! (Economy has hit hard!?)

So may be 2002 has better prices?

Making Sunrrof standard would not make difference in price (lower) but may be it has higher MSRP?

May I ask how much below MSRP can one expect to get - 2002 or 2003 model?

[if you prefer I can give my direct e-mail]

I saw some websites (car consultant/brokers) talking about selling Euro

delivery new cars for very good prices?

New model:

I came across this link, I thought the bottom

picture is for 2003 one but I guess the page is

confusing - it is for 2004! What do you guys think?

http://pc99.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.hbs?myrec=20

Thanks.

snagiel · June 2002

Yeah, it ain't the prettiest car out there, but I've seen a couple on the streets with modified headlights and/or ground effects that have significantly improved the overall appearance. A cursory search yielded these results:

http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=WRX+headlight&hc=0&hs=0

Alright, enough WRX-plugging. Back to BMW's!

musher2 · June 2002

Yee Ha! My dealer confirmed that my 530i was shipped on 6/19. Should hit the US shore on Monday. With luck (meaning no unexpected -- expected? -- delays) I could be behind the wheel on or about July 10, which would be 10 - 14 days sooner than estimated at the time the order was placed.

I gotta admit that I'm uncharacteristically fired up about this car purchase. I'm usually a very patient person, pretty reserved in fact (it is, after all, a car), but reading about the pure joy you guys are getting from your 5ers has got me spun up pretty tight about this particular vehicle. And while my 323i was a lot of fun to drive, the engine (and back seat) is small, and it lacks the sport package. Time to move on!

So, how about some recommendations regarding snow tires? I realize it's hard to think about winter mere days after the summer solstice, but I like to be prepared -- I expect to order wheels and tires sometime in July. Anyone have a strong recommendation (for or against) a particular snow tire?

snagiel · June 2002

I know how you feel with these last few days. As awesome as the car will surely be, it will ironically be somewhat of a letdown once your anticipation is over...believe me. So just savor the anticipation, as well as the delivery process.

As for the winter tires, you're right, you shouldn't be worrying about them now. Check out http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/winter.jsp for a review of the customer surveys about winter tires. But I suspect that, due to the season, fewer choices are currently in stock for the size you'll need (I recommend going a step down to 225/55 16's with separate wheels).

musher2 · June 2002

Thanks for the link. Interesting data, but I've got one question. Given the categories "performance winter" and "studless ice and snow", I would assume that the former group is a compromise between traction and performance, whereas the latter group is biased (pardon the pun) more towards traction. However, the scoring indicates just the opposite. The top-rated "perf winter" tires have better scores for wet/dry and snow traction than the top-rated "ice & snow" tires. Am I misinterpreting the categories?

In any case, I can go along with the 'thumbs up' on Blizzak LM-22's, having used them the past two winters on my 323i. With the Blizzaks, DSC and a clutch, I'm more comfortable with my bimmer in a snowstorm than my wife's FWD auto trans Nissan.

And I agree about using 16s for winter tires, and the dedicated rims, too. Well worth the money in the long run.

As for availability of winter tires in the summer, if you're right and tirerack's selection will be better a few months from now, then they're the only retailers in the western world that haven't stretched their seasonal offerings fully six months ahead of the target season. I'm expecting to see Christmas displays in stores any day now!

Finally, in a truly bizarre twist, I just checked on tirerack's wheel selection for a 530i w/ SP, and the image of the car is overwritten with the message "We're sorry. The tirerack does not currently carry any wheels to fit this vehicle", yet no fewer than 47 options are listed on the same screen. Not too confusing! I just sent them an e-mail regarding the contradictory response. Stay tuned.

anf · June 2002

I have a 2000 540i 6-speed. I caught a rock in the windshield and it needs to be replaced. The windshield has rain sensors. However, they are also asking me whether it the windshield has the climate control option. I have no idea what they are talking about -- I don't remember this being an option. The car came with climate control standard, but I don't see anywhere saying that the windshield is involved in this in any way. The guy in the BMW parts dept says that if I see a red tint in the windshield, I have it, but I don't see the red tint. He also said that it is a special option and is not typical.

Can anyone help me with this?

john01 · June 2002

I am told that it is a non-US option that helps with cutting down the amount of heat that comes through with the sun light. It does not effect the amount light like the normal tint does, but makes a significant change. One person who put it on recommends it to everyone who needs to replace the standard windshield. the part numbers are:

W/ Rain Sensor - 51 31 8 259 324
W/O Rain Sensor - 51 31 8 238 668

snagiel · June 2002

I've read about this in the bimmer.org forums; Like everything else, BMW over-engineers its windshields. There are something like 8 or 10 different windshields that'll fit. They take into account the UGDO (garage door opener), climate control, rain sensor, production date, security package (available in US only on 750), and even some low emissions glass option. Yes, it's madness.

Anyway, to answer your question, the "climate comfort" windshield has a metallic/infra-red layer imbedded into the glass which reduces UV rays and helps keep the interior cool (without visually tinting the glass). Because of the metallic content, radar detectors would be rendered blind, but I think I've read somewhere BMW takes this into account (of course) and actually has a small square cut-out near the rearview mirror for this purpose. Ask the parts guy if he knows about this.

snagiel · June 2002

I see your point about the survey. Your interpretation of the categories is correct (see http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/snows.htm for definitions). I think comparing average scores across categories loses some relevance, since these results are from people evaluating a single tire (i.e. they're not doing a comprehensive test against others), so the numbers are probably most meaningful when just comparing within the same category. Also, the "performance winter" tires generally have far fewer responses for most of the models, so the scores are statistically less reliable. For example, check out the comparison test they did a couple years back which included the Blizzak MZ-01 (a dedicated studless ice tire) and the Pilot Alpin (a performance winter tire):

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testResultsModel.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Alpin. The Bilzzak destroyed the Pilot in all tests on the ice, but on the road (where the Pilot's compromises excel), it outhandled the Blizzak.

riez · June 2002

I've pored over the huge full-color brochures for the 2002 5 Series, 5 Series Touring, and M5. Couldn't find anything on a "climate control windshield." Only interesting thing I found was a listing under only the M5 for a "solar sensor that senses direct sunlight within the interior and adjusts climate control."

john01 · June 2002

..which is why I said it is a non-US option.

riez · June 2002

john01... What is the part number? Can it be ordered for USA cars? Is it even legal in USA? All States or only some?

snagiel · June 2002

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/5series/messages/archive/msgsy2001w05/26944.html

spyderred · June 2002

I have just purchased a new (to me) '01 525i, Royal Red/Sand, 5speed, sport. It has 3,500 miles, CPO, Leather, Moonroof, DSP. I am in Southern California. This is my 2nd BMW. The first is a '98 528ia, sport, arctic silver/grey.
I absolutely love my new car. It took me a year to decide what I really wanted. It was going to be a 5 series for sure with a sport package. Just didn't know if I wanted a 525, 530, or a 540. I must say that I am not disappointed with the performance of the 525. I had concerns about it being under powered but it really feels faster that the 528 and I could not justify the extra ~$4,000 for the 530i for the additional horsepower and torque. This car will get me in enough trouble as it is.
Now I have a plastered smile on my face every time I get in the car. For all of you who wonder if the sports package is necesarry? If you like taking on/off-ramps at twice the posted recommended speeds, then, IT IS a MUST. It really transform the car to a 4 door sports car. Very Impressive!
Now like my wife says, It will be extremely hard to go back and drive anything else other than a BMW.

mynextcar · June 2002

I am in the market for 530i or E320. I have read the reviews for both cars and seems to be very comparible. I would like to hear some pros and cons from anyone who have owned either one or both. Thanks in advance!

anf · June 2002

Thanks for all your comments. My radar detector comes in handy, so I don't think I would want to compromise it.

riez · June 2002

mynextcar... If you have the time, there are a ton of posts here, out of the 4194, involving people who now own or did own 528i or 530i. The key to buying is always research, research, research and test drive, test drive, test drive.

Surprisingly, over the past couple thousand posts I've been involved with here (since #1490), don't remember many people here commenting on MB products in general or MB E320 in particular. Seems like BMW buyers look for different things than MB buyers. (MB just doesn't have enough manual transmission models for my tastes. Won't consider an automatic so I don't cross shop many MB products these days.)

bimmer12 · June 2002

Sambeam:

You've probably gone through the posts and seen Shipo make numerous informative postings. He actually helped me attain a european delivery price of $1500 over E.D. invoice.. It's a great deal.

As for getting a better deal on a 2002...You won't get a better deal on a 2002 but rather the car earlier. Since the cars are built to order, there is really no incentive for a dealer or BMW to give you an added incentive to the discounted prices on a 2002.. In August, I'm sure the dealer would give a discount but only on cars in their stock (which likely means no sport pkg, manual, etc.) and very few 530i's remain in stock in my region.

As for the 2004, I've seen those pics that you've posted and I'm sure BMW will soften the contraversial decklid of the 7 series on the upcoming 5. But, many cars have little kinks in their first few years of production and I usually hate to buy cars in their infancy. The E39 body and mechanics of the 3.0 liter powerplant are proven and I love it as is..No need of being deprived further.

Let me know if you need anything further

shipo · June 2002

"I must say that I am not disappointed with the performance of the 525. I had concerns about it being under powered but it really feels faster that the 528..."

Ummm, I guess that make sense given that your 528i was equipped with an automatic transmission. That said, I used to drive a 1999 328i 5-Speed, and swapped cars with a friend, who has a 2001 325i 5-Speed, for a day and a half. To be quite frank, there is no comparison at all, the 328i was noticeably faster in every gear and in every RPM range.

Did you perchance get to drive a 530i 5-Speed, or even the 540i 6-Speed? I am just wondering what your impressions of those cars were. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

john01 · June 2002

I looked at these 2 last year before going with the BMW. I knew the new E was coming out, but did not want to wait 1 year for it. I brought the E first for a test drive and left it in the garage. My wife sees it and goes, "nice..." It drove well, very spacious inside, even tough the exterior dimensions are almost identical to the BMW.

The following week, I brought the BMW home and left it in the same spot, and my wife goes, "Wow, this is it!". A bit less room, but more fun to drive, at least to me. Plus when you sit in the interior, the BMW feels so much nicer. The materials feel richer, things were put together solidly. The MB just felt like another nice car, but left us wanting more when it came to the interior.

On the other hand, the new E we looked at back in March (after our Bimmer was delivered) has much better interior, everything feels and looks so much nicer. It could very well be our next car.

It comes down to what you need and like, I guess. More room and softer ride, go with the E class. Sportier ride, and that great BMW feel on every part of the car, well you know the answer. I did hear that you can install Bilstein HD shocks to tighten up and give the E class sportier ride, if you go that route. If you like the E class and can wait a bit, I would say give it a year and buy the new one.

nyccarguy · June 2002

congrats on your car! It is nice to see some positive comments about a 525i with a 5 speed and sport package.

mynextcar: if you're shopping for a vehicle right now, then I'd say go with the BMW. MB's new E Class is coming out this fall. I've been an MB fan for a long time and I'm seeing that their cars "ain't what they used to be" in terms of reliability & build quality especially during the first year. Look at the M-Class plagued with Quality Control Problems & the C-Class which is experiencing Transmission and electrical problems. I've got a friend who has a 2000 S430 (he got it 3/99) and a 2001 S500. Both cars have problems with the COMMAND system, but especially the S430. I only fear the new E-Class is doomed to the same fate.

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