BMW 5-Series Sedans

riez · September 2003

For those interested in test numbers...

Motor Trend, September, 2001. 4-car comparison test using 540ia with Sport Pkg. 0-60 mph in 6.58 seconds.

mseals · September 2003

I know exactly what you mean when you say a sewing machine on steroids. I loved my Si, and it did get stronger after about 15k miles on the clock. But I also kept is in stock form and made sure I did the regular maintenance like air filters and spark plugs every 20-30k miles along with 5k miles oil changes. I had no problems at all with the car. You are right about freeway speed though, it got really noisy and not much was left to step on if you didn't downshift to 4th gear. But when you did that, all hell would break loose under the engine, or at least it sounded like it. That engine is bullet proof though, and took modifications well. My thinking was that I would just rather get a car with more power than spend money upgrading. I ended up buying a 528i 5sp off of Ebay last fall. Two totally different beast, the 5er is a lot bigger, but I don't have the folding rear seats and I miss that. I really want to trade it for a 325Ci or a 330Ci next summer after some bills are paid for. We shall see though.

Mark

woodranch1 · September 2003

Hi, what can I expect overall with the above?

riez · September 2003

woodranch1... Will depend upon how you drive (aggressively or judiciously) and where you drive (interstate, rural, congested inner city).

When I cruise in 6th gear (overdrive) on the interstate at 74 mph, I get a bit over 26 mpg. She is a most magnificient highway cruiser. I don't drive much in the city with her, so I don't ever estimate city MPG. But she gets better fuel economy than most pickup trucks, SUVs, and minivans with ATs.

woodranch1 · September 2003

Riez thanks. I assume you use only premium. Do you ever mix in lower grade fuel? Any particular brand?

riez · September 2003

woodranch1... I run only Amoco/BP Ultimate. The "clear" gasoline. In my area it is normally 92 octane. Believe the minimum acceptable octane for my '98 540i6 is 89 octane. Why this fuel? Just because I think it is the "best". Likely all in my head. But I don't mind paying a bit more for peace of mind and to take full advantage of the 540i6's wonderful performance.

jhox85 · September 2003

Does anybody has any idea why my 02, 530i do not remember the AC settings 50% of the time? I thought it is supposed to keep the settings, but it does not do that all the time. Anybody has any solutions?
Thanks

vsaxena · September 2003

Cross-posted from the Future Vehicles discussion.
http://www.bmw545.com/2004_5_Series_Pricing.pdf

Expect to pay about $3K more based on MSRP for an E60 vs an E39 525 with SP/PP/Steptronic. The SP has the biggest price increase due to the newer technologies it is packing (active steering and active roll stabilization). Auto dimming mirror and lumbar support become standard with the PP along with a $200 price increase for the 525.

I think the stronger Euro (in comparison with last summer) may have something to do with the higher prices.

ptrekker · September 2003

Next car will definitely be custom ordered and ED!

riez · September 2003

ptrekker... Thinking my next 5 Series might be a CPO MY2003 E39. (I'd love an M5.) Besides styling and price issues, think it will be years before we know how reliable the E60 platform is and I'm afraid all these electro-techno gizmos are just problems waiting to happen. Lots of potential gremlins and bugs that might need to be worked out. [God help first year buyers?]

ponytrekker · September 2003

Being that I am 4 months into a 36 month E46 lease, I assume the bugs will be worked out. I like the E39 more than the E60, and wish I had held out for a 5 series, but oh well. But the bucks you save with ED is serious!

layer3switch · September 2003

Hi folks,

New to BMW and wanted some advice on what I should expect to pay on the following car:

2002 530ia
8000 mi
Certified Pre-Owned
Balance of scheduled Maint
Auto (steptronic)
Premium Package
Xenon Lights
Folding rear seats
Cold Weather Package
Heated wheel

Dealer is asking 39,900... Any advice on if this is a good deal, or is there a target price I should aim for... Also, what can I expect from the car in snow and ice?

Thanks!

sfvas · September 2003

Is there a big difference in power on the 528i to the 530i? Any problems, mechanically, on the 528i? I can get a 2000 528 for about $31,000 or less.

habitat1 · September 2003

Regarding the $39,900 price on a 2002 530ia, that seems quite high. With $3,500 incentives, I've heard of deals on brand new 2003's at up to $2,500+ UNDER invoice (i.e. about the price you've been quoted for the 2002). That suggests a price for a used 2002 in the mid $30's or less.

Regarding the 528i vs. the 530i, I believe there is a big difference in power. I was using my 1995 Maxima (SE, 5-speed) as a benchmark and when I tested the 528i 5-speed a couple of years ago, found it wanting for more power. I probably would have felt it necessary to go to the 540i 6-speed. When I subsequently tested the 530i 5-speed, I was pleased that it felt comparable or quicker than the Maxima. In my opinion, the 528i was just slightly too heavy of a car for the 2.8 liter engine (the 328i was a better match). With the 530i, the weight and engine power are much more evenly matched, to the extent that I dropped the 540i from consideration. The M5 is still on my wish list.

Also, $31k for a 4 year old 528i seems extremely high. I am not in the market for a used car, but in casually reading the ads in the Washington Post, I've seen 2000 540i's for the low $30's. Personally, for an extra $10k +/- a brand new 2003 530i would be an absolute no brainer for me. I wouldn't be looking at a 2000 528i for any more than about $25k (i.e. and that's still less than a 40% discount less than a new 530i that has a full warranty, etc.) We should all be so lucky to think we could buy a 5-series, drive it for 3-4 years and then sell it for only $10k less than a new one goes for.

hoopsref · September 2003

I agree with habitat1. That seems high and would track down a new one. The '03 530i's are/were going for $3000+ UNDER invoice. I got my 530iA the end of July fo $3200 under invoice. I realize they are becoming shorter in supply than the 525's, but if you are flexible in options, color... you might find one if you hunt around and are willing to drive (or fly) for it. Folks on this board can help with locating dealers near them that have some left. At very least, if you arm yourself with this information you may get the used one for less than their asking price.

layer3switch · September 2003

Thanks for the replies folks... Please keep them coming.

I'm torn between the 530ia or the new Lexus ES330. My biggest concern is how the 530ia will perform in rain, snow and ice.

The Lexus ES330 looks alot like a really nice Camry, but is FWD. But the BMW.... Ah it is nice. Just worried about my newborn son and wife in it this winter here in NJ.

sfvas · September 2003

The dealers out here, SF Bay Area, don't have any 530i. I looked at some used 2003 with 5000k miles, but they were asking 41-45k for them. I'm not paying that much for a USED car. The 528i they are willing to wheel and deal with.

You are right, it does feel underpowered for the size of the car. I'm sure it does okay for commute reasons, but if I load it up with 4 people and go wine tasting - it might struggle a little.

I'm now looking at DEMO models some dealers have or will just wait. Many people will trade the older 530i for the New 545i coming out next month.

Thanks for all your responses.

warthog · September 2003

I would never buy a demo. How did YOU drive the dealer's demo? Did you ask the salesman about observing the break-in period? Riiiiiiigghhhttt. Did you miss any shifts in that fine 6-speed? Of course not. And no one did any of those things in the demo you'll buy either.

riez · September 2003

sfvas... I wouldn't worry. Keep in mind more people buy used cars every year than new cars. Tons of people, myself included, enjoy CPO cars. My wife bought a '00 323is service loaner. At 18,000 miles. She had an enjoyable 34,000 miles in in. No more problems than a ton of people who bought new E46s.

warthog... Unless you order your car and get it right off the boat, someone else drove your car before you did. And if you buy it off the dealer's lot from his inventory, some people drove it. That happens to the vast majority of new cars sold in USA.

woodranch1 · September 2003

an anyone comment on the accuracy of the outside temp reading. It seems at least 10 degrees off (high)in my new 5 series. Thx.

habitat1 · September 2003

I cannot say that I've driven the new ES330, but unless Lexus completely redesigned the car from the ES300, it has got to be one of the most boring cars to drive in the world. It really is a luxo-Camry and, as such, is a notch below even my old Nissan Maxima in terms of handling and driving dynamics. No amount of fake wood, leather or stereo sound can make up for the fact that it is really is Buick-like to drive.

I respectfully suggest that, if RWD in New Jersey concerns you, consider something like the Audi A6 FWD or Quatro. It's a notch down from the BMW in handling and dynamics, but has a better interior than the Lexus, IMO, and at least won't send you off into slumberland the way the ES will.

FWIW, I have friends who have a 540i sport in the Pittsburgh area and they have not found the winter driving too much for the BMW to handle. They did get a set of winter tires and rims to replace the high performance summer tires and rims, but this was mostly to avoid pothole damage. Rain and snow traction with RWD 5-series is much improved over the old days.

layer3switch · September 2003

Habitat1,

Thanks for the reply... I currently do own an Audi A6 2.7 which I love. The only down side, it's reliability is starting to slip and Audi and the dealership simply stink. It's a true shame, because the car is wonderful.

I agree about the Lexus 330, but my wife has a vote and seems to think the FWD 330 would be safer for me. Snow tires are a thought, but hate having to deal with the cost of buying and mounting them each year. I am really driving myself nuts over this decision.

kennynmd · September 2003

I currently own a 03 325ci and a 03 ES300. I know it;s not a comparison between both cars, but my friend has an 01 540i. I drove both one after the other and I woyuld have to say for the money, the ES is a better deal. Even if you compare the price between a 530 it still would be around 7 grand. The Es ride is somewhat boring because it rides so smooth, and its extremely quiet.My wife loves the ES. And although I don't drive it much, I enjoy it more also.

joatmon · September 2003

I have an 03 530i, 5 speed, sport pack, and it's a great car. But, my wife has an 03 X5, and for hauling kids around, it's a great vehicle. 90% + of the time we take our 6 and 3 year old somewhere, we take the X5. Why? It's got a lot more room, you sit higher, has cupholders, and feels more luxurious than our 530i. Both great cars. The X5 is a great rig IF you don't need a Suburbon/Yukon/Behemoth XL, etc.

Happy Motoring,

Jack

microrepair · September 2003

Sunday's edition of Motorweek (on PBS) featured the new 5. I couldn't help thinking that Toyota built it with some design input from BMW. It reminds me very much of the Avalon with the exception of the front grille. Not that it's bad looking, but it seems to me that many of the new models from numerous manufacturers are really starting to look like each other. They are losing their personality amd distintive looks.

kdshapiro · September 2003

The new issue of BMW mag has pictures of the new 5-series. I'd have to say it's a gorgeous car. I'm not sure how anyone can say one can see the Avalon in it. It's a BMW pure-bred.

jb_shin · September 2003

Well, at least the 7 stands out, and to lesser extent the 5 does as well. I know many people commented that the shape grows on you after a while. However, for the money these cars are going for, I want something I like right away, not something that may grow on me.

I have to admit, though, the interior did not give me as much bad vibe as the exterior. When I sat in the car and just looked around, the material at least looked quite nice and things were put together rather nicely.

diver110 · September 2003

FWIW, I bought 1 2000 BMW 540i wagon a few months ago. It has low mileage, around 28,000, and a few months of the primary warranty left. I got it for $30,500 from a private party, and immediately had to put $750 into it for service, so it really cost me $31,250. All other comparables I saw listed in my area (within a few hundred miles of Baltimore, MD) were around $40,000 for the same car--and most of those cars had more mileage. Admittedly, I bought the car before the dealers were discounting out the 2003's.

jacqueslan · September 2003

I do enjoy the reading here. Thank you. I order the last 530iA-M exective pkg. It is premium and M sports package. I have a 3.2TL that is due in late december. The colour is Topaz Blue. Next week there is a preview on the new 5 series. I hope I made the right decision by going 03. Any suggestion on winter tire?? 17".

Jacques

tlmmhowell · September 2003

I have used the Arctic Alpins on my 540. Great traction and pretty quiet.

lgross · September 2003

I have virtually the same 2002 that you were looking at. I drove it last winter in Connecticut on the OEM all-season tires and had no problem. The BMW traction control (or whatever they call it) is awesome, but it won't let you start from a stop on a snow covered hill. The same holds true for my FWD vehicles.

The key is the tires and their condition. You can forget the low profile sport tires in winter. They are killers! Don't even try. The OEM all-seasons are adequate if you don't try to create new tracks going up a hill from a standing start. Winters tires are much better in this situation. IMHO this is the case whether you are talking about the FWD Lexus or the RWD 530i.

sdg380 · September 2003

Layer, here in Chicago, I drive an '02 530 (5 spd. stk, CWP, PP, non-SP), and my wife has an '03 ES300. Much as I like the BMW, and even though I find it quite competent in crappy weather, I think you will find the ES330 a better choice, given your situation.

While I don't think it makes that much sense to buy a vehicle for the dozen or so days of really crappy weather here (SUV's are everywhere), a front-driver is definitely somewhat easier to drive in that kind of weather. And for the peace of mind of you and your wife, you want the car that will be easiest for her to drive (or at least she feels is easiest for her to drive.)

Now let's be real here, the 530 really outshines the ES when it comes to DRIVING enjoyment in most weather, the level of precision handling and control is to be expected for a car that costs roughly 25% more than the Lexus. But to be fair, the Lexus is a pleasure to RIDE in, and of course, that has to be taken into account, especially in the case of a sedan (ie, a vehicle intended to carry more people than just the driver.) And call it a fancy Camry if you wish, we got a very good deal on the Lexus, it drives competently, they are rock solid reliable, and hold their value extremely well (and no fake wood here, a real walnut steeing wheel and trim feels pretty luxurious.)

Having owned my '91 525 for 11 years and over 100k miles, only to buy essentially to same car in my '02, I'm obviously a big BMW fan. But being quite familiar with the ES, and given your comments/concerns, you would be well-advised to get the Lexus at this juncture. BTW, my wife had been driving a 325, and is quite pleased with the Lexus, the luxuriousness just appealed to her alot more than the sportiness of the 325. And the Lexus has just as many airbags, safety features, etc. as my 5-er. Save the dough, they'll be a BMW in your future.

uswaiter · September 2003

Woodranch,

I've got a 2001 530i whose outside temperature readout is always within a degree or two of the radio announced temperature. The only peculiarity is that it requires several miles to come to thermal equilibrium with the environment, after I leave my garage. I'd have yours checked out if it's off ten degrees. Something wrong.

hstrachman · September 2003

I just bought 2000 528i and in need of a radar detector. I've seen ads for Valentine1, K-40, and Passport. Any suggestions?
Thanks

ewoq · September 2003

I have a MY2000 540iA SP on the west coast. Although we had very little snow last winter, I've always driven RWD with automatic transmissions for many years into the ski country. Snow tires are a must and I've never been stuck. This past year I purchased Toyo Snowproxes 950s but without snow, never had the opportunity to test them out. For the past decade I've used Pirelli W210s and 240s (and have been very happy with them). Regarding the temperature sensor, my old e34 was always dead accurate but I've found my present car to read a few degrees (Celsius) higher in the summer - perhaps it's located closer to the ground?

kennynmd · September 2003

I have the K-40 in my 325ci. It's great. Cant remember the model but its the one that is hard wired, and the LED lights (2) one for front and one for rear, can be mounted anywhere in the vehicle. Therefore there is no "box" that can be seen. My brother owns a car stereo shop in Virginia and we have it in all our cars. It work great. The only downside is that it costs about a grand.

aqb · September 2003

Valentine!!
In three months of use in my 540ia it has already saved me a half dozen times. Easy install; nice easy-to-use features.

div2 · September 2003

The V1 gets my vote as well; once you become used to the location arrows it is very hard to go back to a unit that only tells you that radar/laser is out there-"somewhere".

hoopsref · September 2003

check out this site. http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=1027
I don't how accurate it is, but is is interesting. It looks like the Passport is a little better than the V1. Anyone out there tried both in different situations? Can either be purchased at retail stores or only on line?

pen101 · September 2003

It has saved me a number of tickets. I feel naked driving without it.

tlmmhowell · September 2003

Doea anyone know where the antenae mounts on an E39 touring?

erickpl · September 2003

I suspect the satellite antenna mounts at the rear off the roof line - above the rear window.

My XM antenna is on my trunk, but we're replacing it with one that mounts higher up. The magnetic mount is scratching the trunk lid. We're going with one of the lower profile antennas that attach on the roof.

-Paul

srfast · September 2003

for E39 Touring, only sedans. You will need to purchase an after market unit, but it won't be interfaced with the BMW headunit or steering wheel controls.

Hope tis helps....JL

someday · September 2003

Hello all, I was considering the C230K Sports sedan or a bmw 330Ci but then I heard of the various dealer incentives on the 03 525i/530i on these boards. Calling around there are very few 530i with the options I am interested in left at the dealerships. There seem to be quite a few 525i's left though.

First question: I saw a 530i with only premium package and no sports package. I would prefer the sports package but is there a big difference without it?

Second question: Since there are a lot of 525i's left is it worth it? I have heard that it seems underpowered.

thanks.

nyccarguy · September 2003

only you can decide whether or not the 525i is underpowered. Will you be driving stick or auto? Go for a test drive and you'll find out for yourself.

As far as the SP goes, if it is an option that you want, even with incentives, you're plunking down a nice chuink of change for a new BMW. You might have to make some minor sacrifices like int & ext colors, but if you want a car equipped with the SPort Package, drive one with and without to see the difference, then decide if it is worth it?

maybe a 525i w/ a 5 speed & Sport Package is the right combo for you that makes the car still fun to drive. Maybe If the Auto/Non Sport is the only one available you might not like it. The best way to do it is by extensive test drives.

ponytrekker · September 2003

>>It has saved me a number of tickets. I feel naked driving without it.

I knew a girl who avoided a number of tickets by driving naked.

bigstick1 · September 2003

525ia 10K 2003 Fully Loaded CPO 6 year warranty $37K vs. 530ia 2003 Fully Loaded 8K miles $39K but you have to purchase outside warranty. Are these outside warranties (Been qouted $2K thus putting price back to $41K)as good as BMW? What do you experts think.

riez · September 2003

bigstick... What are these units? Dealer "demonstrators"? Service loaners? Have you tried to buy a brand new one? BMW has had some great incentives on remaining 2003s. Your quoted prices, esp. for the 525ia, seem too high (though you don't tell what options they have).

3rd party warranties are only as good as the company underwriting them and as good as the details of the contract. You should thoroughly research both. I am not a fan of 3rd party warranties. Usually expensive or filled with limitations and restrictions.

habitat1 · September 2003

good deals, I called my local BMW dealer (VOB, Rockville MD) to see if they had any leftover 530i 5-speed sport packaged equiped cars. Unfortunately, no.

But they do have two nes 540i 6-speeds that carry full MSRP stickers of $58,xxx that they aould discount to the full amount of the incentive ($4,000, I believe) UNDER INVOICE. That translates into roughly $49,000 for a brand new 2003 540i 6-speed. That includes all options, but may not nclude the gas guzzler tax of $1,300. The two they have are silver/black and slate green/beige.

I'm not in a position or need to take advantage of that offer, but if anyone else is, go for it. I know folks that paid nearly that price for a 530i.

Kirstie_H · September 2003

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat -- Our topic tonight is "Warranties: Are they worth it?"

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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