BMW 5-Series Sedans

div2 · October 2003

I'll take a Touring with SMG. In Mugello Red, thank you: http://www.autocarmagazine.co.uk/news_article.asp?na_id=204209

rayainsw · October 2003

First, a clarification. The abuse of these cars occurred at the encouragement of (and also at the hands of) BMW test drivers  mostly from the SC BMW facility. They kept encouraging us to push the cars harder. (If someone tries to sell you a low mileage, dark blue 530i Sport / Step, Id suggest that you look it over very closely  they had 15 identical cars at this event, all used very hard all day.

That said, the dynamics of the new 5 chassis are impressive. It is composed under extreme conditions, including being bounced off the apex and exit curbing at Road Atlanta at high speeds (by professional drivers) with 4 aboard. At high cornering speeds, the Dunlops fitted to these cars were quite impressive regarding handling, ride and very low noise under high lateral G.

The 3.0L 6 is still good  but not great, IMHO. At least not in this size / weight car. The rumored 3.5L might change my opinion there. (They had no V8s at this event.) The 6 speed Step behaved well in spirited driving on a slalom course with speeds between about 25 and 45.

My biggest problem is with the styling, both exterior and interior. I was wondering if it would grow on me. I just dont like it. YMMV.

Cheers,
- Ray
Wondering if these will be sold as used . . .

tlmmhowell · October 2003

I know there is a board for this, but I finally saw a new 5 in the flesh. I like the interior look, but after a demo of the i-drive, I was not impressed. Overly-complicated and offers many things I would never use. Seems silly to me. The driving is great, as we all would expect. The exterior is atrocious. Looks like a Pontiac to me. The front is really bad, and the butt is worse.

bmwseller · October 2003

maybe you should look at an M3? The 5 is quite a departure but if you like BMW? I have the two of them sitting right next to each other on the showroom floor just a few feet away.
I'd take the M3, too.

div2 · October 2003

BMW NA used to provide white E30 M3s to the Skip Barber driving schools. Needless to say, instructors and students flogged the whee out of them. As a result, more than a few dealers were suspicious of any white M3s sold at BMWNA auctions. One of my friends used to work in sales at a VA dealer and he was looking at a white M3 BMWNA was putting on the block. NA swore up and down that it wasn't a Skippy car so my friend bought it for the dealer. When the dealer received the car they put it up on a lift. They noticed that it had one new rear shock. With an inventory tag still attached. The tag read "Deliver to Skip Barber Driving School, Lime Rock CT".
As for the new 5er, I't's very unlikely that I'd buy another 5er unless it came with a V10;) Our 528iA is a wonderful car, but my wife and I prefer the tossibility of a smaller car. When we no longer need a largish sedan my wife will probably swap it for an X3 or(better yet) a 330i.

designman · October 2003

M3 with SMG. Now your talkin! Very high on my list... could wind up with one myself before next August. Not buying your E60 headlight sell. Not only are they ugly, but they are suspect having universal movement in a very sensitive area. It would not surprise me if we see them lined up for the service docks... crosseyed, walleyed 530s beggin' for help. However, I'm sure there will be many people infatuated with them. Am also concerned with the headlight movement on my 03. Unnecessary IMO.

billbrox1 · October 2003

I too am a bit concerned about the headlight movement on my '03 530....I thought it was just me, but my instinct is to look beyond the illuminated area..... the car only has 14K miles. Anyone else have this issue?

karmikan · October 2003

Billbrox1, are you talking about vertical or lateral movement? The E39 has only self levelling headlights, no lateral movement. If you're getting movement other than self-levelling I'd get the car checked out.

bmwseller · October 2003

E60 lights are state of the art. They pivot ahead of the car into the path you are steering the car. Speed sensitive, they can turn up to 15 degrees to illuminate into a turn. This is actually a simple function compared to many things that cars BMW's do. I'd be more concerned if I had the "active cruise" that uses radar to adjust cruise control speeds and pace cars ahead. These lights were introduced in the '04 model BMW coupes and convertibles that have been available for many months now and no problems have arisen. Find some other technology to be skeptical about. Adaptive headlights are simple, logical, add great safety and should be adopted by many "followers" after being introduced and perfected by the leader in innovation and safety, BMW. Thanks, for bringing it up.

karmikan · October 2003

I think that Citroen introduced turning headlights on their DS model in 1969 or 1970. About 20 yrs earlier, Tucker had a third light that turned with the steering input.

jb_shin · October 2003

I was just about to mention the same but karmikan beat me to it. Not to mention the fact that billbrox1 had orginially expressed concern on his 03, not 04.

kdshapiro · October 2003

"I think that Citroen introduced turning headlights on their DS model in 1969 or 1970."

And where are they today?

billbrox · October 2003

Karmikan, (percieved) headlight movement is vertical.......I'll have the dealer check it out.....thanks

habitat1 · October 2003

I, for one, am a little concerned about technology for technology's sake and the unintended consequences on the long term maintenance / value of the new 5-series.

I admit to not having seen the new turning headlights. But the old fashioned fog lights on my 1995 Maxima illuminate sideways very well and the xenon's on my S2000 are equally functional. Simple technology? How many cars with pop up headlights have "winkers" after 6-7+ years? Funny, nobody's doing pop up headlights anymore that I am aware of, in spite of their purported aerodynamic advantages. And even Porsche had gotten in on that fad.

Even the navigation systems, which I think have significant underlying merit and functionality, are based upon computer technology that has a life cyle of about 20% the average BMW car. I have a 9 year old Maxima that looks and runs great. How many of us still have a 9 year old 486 computer on their desk? I know of someone who literally traded their perfectly fine 2000 M5 for a 2001 M5 so that they could get the bigger 7" navigation screen. And I'm sure that a 9" one with higher resolution is around the corner. In the case of navigation systems, I would be all for a universal docking device behind the dash that allowed you to pluck out the old one and pop in the new one. But no, the only way right now to upgrade is to sell the $50k or, in the case of the M5 $75k, docking device.

I may change my strategy and start leasing on a three year cycle, but if and when I buy a new 5 series, E-class or other $50k+/- sedan, I'd like to think I won't have an obsolete car in 5-6+ years or one that forces me to drive in concentric circles to get to my destination at night.

Let's not forget that what makes BMW a great CAR is not electronic do-dads.

joatmon · October 2003

OK. It does seem as though the "center" is the last to know. My wife asked about right rear ashtray not staying seated on her X5. The "center" said, "never heard of that one". I get on the internet and in minutes find literally hundreds of people with the same problem.

Mr. BMWSeller, is your info from "clients" or the official word from Munich/Woods Lake?

karmikan · October 2003

Sorry, I think you might have misunderstood. You're probably seeing self-levelling on your E39, it's normal (and useful). Have your dealer check it out if you want but he'll probably say the same thing. I know that's a typical dealer response but this time it could be true.

kdshapiro - Citroen are apparently doing quite nicely in Europe where they market some pretty cool cars. They had a hissy fit over N American litigious restrictions on auto technology and pulled out rather than fight it.

kdshapiro · October 2003

karmikan - the fax machine was invented in the 1920's. However, before they became ubiquitous in everyones home, it took the age of the personal computers to come about some 60 years later. I don't know about you, but now that you can get a fax for $99 or less you can have multiple machines in one household.

IBM didn't invent the computer either.

The same with the swivel headlights, someone, BMW, is taking the technology to the next level. Although they didn't invent it. The same with the variable ratio steering. I'm sure BMW didn't invent it. But it took the time to productize it in a way suitable for it's automobiles. Actually now that I think about it, the same holds for the internal combustion engine, brakes, tires, wheels.

microrepair · October 2003

Citroen survived but it was Tucker that had a flame out in their "third eye" rotating headlight..

What is it with people from Georgia and NY rooting for the Red Sox?? Are you all ex-New Englanders?

habitat1: I couldn't agree with you more!! I am a retired engineer so I'm not averse to technology; far from it! But there is a limit to what should be foisted onto consumer products. An interplanetary space vehicle needs every last bit of hi-tech to ensure a safe mission, but cars never intentionally leave the ground and primarily are meant to move people from point A to B with varying degrees of thrills and comfort. Automatic climate control and moonroofs are nice to have and are worth the possible repair bills. I would rather a world class suspension than a nav system, myself. I still know how to read a physical map and they are free from AAA, which you need to have if your car has too much technology in it..!

bmwseller · October 2003

tough crowd. Citroen had the lights that would pivot but they were not speed sensitive without which the feature is useless and maybe even dangerous.
JOATMAN......I'm in peoria. My experiences are based on client and product interaction at the dealer level. No reports of problems with the active headlights from peoria.

designman · October 2003

microrepair, sorry for the confusion. I had to pull for the Red Sox and Cubs in the opening rounds. In the Northeast Yanks/Sox is nirvana. Then, Yanks/Cubs in WS is a no lose situation for Yank fans, that is, if Cubs win Red Sox take indisputable possession of BB history's basement... payback in spades for haughty Celtic fans of yesteryear and wisecrack from Garciaparra several years ago. Would be funny if he pulled a Bill Buckner in game 7 against Yanks. Such is the sick thinking of a born and bred Bronx man.

All in fun!! I love Beantown and all of its folks!! Gotta admit, this promises to be good and I'll tip my hat if Sox win! And no, I really do not wish that on Garciaparra.

tlmmhowell · October 2003

Anyone have any experience with Falken tires? I was all decided on the Bridgestone Turanzas, but Consumers rated the Falkens higher and they're much cheaper. Thanks.

sjmac · October 2003

I'm looking for a set of winter tires for my 99' 528i and I would like to avoid the heavy price tag if at all possible. (i.e. tirerack.com) Any suggestions as to which tires will give me the best performance vs. traction in the ice/snow? Also, what sizes are typically the best for winter tires? Is it better to get them mounted on a set of steel rims? I see that ebay is a good option, but I don't want to purchase tires that will not fit or hinder the handling of my car.

Your suggestions are appreciated!

dabimmer · October 2003

In my experience I don't think you are going to find anything out there cheaper than Tire Rack.Hope someone on the board knows of one.Your snow tires should go on 15 or 16 inch tires depending on what size you have and they should be steel rims. Tire Rack prices have saved me at least 2 hundred dollars on a set of four. If you have the 17 inch rims you must use the 16 inch ones for snow tires.

jacqueslan · October 2003

I am also looking for tires....mine is 17"
235/45r17 and 255/40r17. I am waiting for prices on Michelin Pilot Alpin. Planning to use existing rim. Is this no good? So far I am enjoying the 530IA...for 3 weeks now. Thanks.

Jacques

bmwseller · October 2003

I've had good results with tire rack over the years and wouldn't have any problem recommending them.

billbrox1 · October 2003

I live in Potomac Maryland.....do I really need snow tires for my 530i (w/Sport/Prem)??

tlmmhowell · October 2003

If you're buying snows, it is much better to get a set of dedicated rims, steel or alloy, whatever you can afford. The slip control on the E-39 is damn good, so for me, good A/S tires are fine. I live in the upper plains, with moderate snow.I have purchased tires through Discount Tires Direct and everything was great.

I'm still interested in any experience with Falken tires. Thanks.

bmwseller · October 2003

snow will win. your owner's manual recommends snow or all-season tires for winter driving. You'll go nowhere without them.

ponytrekker · October 2003

Only if you want to drive it.

microrepair · October 2003

"You'll go nowhere without them. "

bmwseller was referring to snow tires.. Some people could have SPIKES on their wheels and still go off the road in snowy conditions. Others with lots of snow driving experience can get around (not quickly however) with fairly new A/S tires. People don't realize how much of the snow driving experience depends upon the training and skill of the driver. It certainly helps to have features like snow tires, limited slip differential, traction control, etc.. but I have driven by SUV's, with 4-wheel drive, off the road when there has only been 2-3 inches of snowfall and my car is rear wheel drive with only limited slip and snows on all four wheels. I live in Mass. and have been driving in this snowy climate for many decades, mostly with rear wheel drive with nothing except 2 snow tires on the rear. What you learn is that you need a feather foot on the throttle.. And lots of patience..

Last March, I was coming north through Conn. during that 4-hour blizzard that almost shut down southern Conn. I had only fairly good tread on A/S tires and I made it through that storm, although at a VERY slow rate. Took almost 4 hours to move about 30 miles due to the traffic and the 4-5 inches of snow on Rt. 95.. There were a few heart stopping moments, but made it OK.

Having said all that, I recommend 4-wheel snows (the front snows help with cornering and stopping) for all rear wheel drive cars if you area has more than 8-10 inches of snow per winter. To save some aggravation, buy them mounted on their own wheels so maybe even you can change them over yourself without paying over $100 per year to have them mounted and balanced twice a year..!

bmwseller · October 2003

True enough MICROREPAIR, good post. My 525 does not have traction control, but I do have appropriate rubber and patiently make it through the winter driving conditions.

warthog · October 2003

I attended the Charlotte auto show today. As might be expected, the new 5 drew a lot of attention. The consensus of both present BMW owners and non-owners was that the exterior is at best "interesting" and at worst hideous. The overwhelming consensus was that the interior befits a Nissan of several years ago. By contrast, Audi and MB interiors were thought by all to be sumptuous and classy.

manybmws · October 2003

Took my '99 528 thru a fierce winter here in Boston area last year on Michelin Pilot Alpins. Worked very well. I just moved these tires to the stock wheels on my new '03 530.

Only thing you might consider is looking at new tires that are V rated like the Dunlop M3. About the same price as the Michelin Pilot Alpins.

I also have Pilot Sport A/S on my 17" wheels for non-winter use. Although I have tried them in the snow. Depending on where you live these may work for you. Could be a great year round solution.

Just stay away from the Q rated tires. You will not be happy with highway or handling dynamics.

ewoq · October 2003

I purchased a set of Toyo Snowprox 950s last season. I had them on my SP OE 17" style 5 rims . No snow last winter. The noise level was about the same as my present Bridgestone 03 summers on a staggered set of style 66s. The manual did not advise a smaller size rim though many e39 owners have purchased 16" rims for winter tires. I've been happy with Pirellis 210/240s for the past decade but I got a better price on these Toyos. Thought I'd try a new product as they have a good reputation in Canada. I'd never rely on all seasons for winter conditions just to save a few $. It's the temperature effect on the rubber compounds that's as important as the tread/snipes pattern.

oriente · October 2003

I visited the BMW dealer today and tend to agree with warthog. Could not get the seat to feel comfortable; also, does not go high enough for my taste. The seat and steering electrical switches seem to belong to the past century.....terrible!
Rear seats were OK, but not much space. I agree the Audi interiors are far superior in look and feel. Hope Audi brings the short A8 to the US, or perhaps the new Cad STS will do for me, but certainly the new 5 was a big disappointment.

bmwseller · October 2003

compare it to want you want and buy what you want but the new 5 will please its owners. It's the best ride and drive in its segment. The fit and finish is far superior to benz, lexus, audi, none of the others worth mentioning. A lot of makes are adopting this shape. It's the specifics that sets this car apart. It's less plush-looking and fits the BMW clients profile of being technology driven and drops the antique style of a shiny wood and cluttered masses of buttons and switches. Japanese car drivers need to take one out on the road for a couple of days and see how eager you are to get back in your chintzy nissans or toyotas.

carnaught · October 2003

"The fit and finish is far superior to benz, Lexus, none of the others worth mentioning." Since you said it, it must be so.

Spoken like a true car salesman.

brianatcal · October 2003

I just got a 2003 530i and I love the car! There weren't many left, and I had a particular preference for exterior/interior color, so I got one with Premium, Xenon, and Folding Rear Seats, but no Sports Package. I'm very happy with the handling and suspension of the car as it is, but I wanted to know if anyone can characterize the difference between having the Sports Package and not, particularly with regards to driving characteristics. Also, the cars with sports package seem lower than those without. If it's true, does anyone know how much lower it is? Finally, if I wanted to go with an after-market package (or BMW), what sports packages are out there and are they as good as or better than the BMW Sports package?

Thanks!

warthog · October 2003

Actually, bmwseller, one of the cars at the Charlotte show had a misaligned hood. And I reiterate that the interior of the new 5 reminds me of the "chintzy" Japanese cars you disparage. I'll keep my 2003 530i.

kdshapiro · October 2003

"And I reiterate that the interior of the new 5 reminds me of the "chintzy"...

OK thats your opinion, lets see what other half of the world has to say about it. I haven't seen them yet, but I'll stop in to see if I can get a test drive.

530bmw · October 2003

I agreed with most of the people on this board that the "thing" is ugly all around both inside and outside. It turnded me off completely that I didn't even want to test drive it when it was offered to me. Yeap, the interior looks really "chintzy". I will not turn in my 2002 for this "thing" until the next redesign.

While on the lot I saw a new 760 with price tag of $122k. Yike!

bmwseller · October 2003

Maybe the people who think that the "thing" is gorgeous aren't bothering to go into chat rooms and argue with the complainers.

However, there are always going to be trusty pre-owned E39's out there. I love that car!!

kendux · October 2003

Does anyone know if the new 5 series will offer AWD in the future. Also I wonder if the AWD on the 3 series compares favorably to Audi quatro? I love my 2003 cic but want to replace a 2000 A6 and am reluctant to abandon the quatro. Kendux

kdshapiro · October 2003

"Also I wonder if the AWD on the 3 series compares favorably to Audi quatro"

That's a fairly broad question. Can you be more specific? I'm thinking, if you won't get stuck in the snow in a Quattro with good tires, you probably won't get stuck in the Bimmer either.

ptrekker · October 2003

unless you go to a junkyard. Or maybe to Brooklyn with a jack and a cinderblock.

Some places will claim to be similar when you factor in mounting, etc., but they are always more. No one can beat tire rack for the selection and prices. The only place that comes close is Sam's club and it has a limited selection.

I went to Mavis to try to get some Dunlops for my Honda and they gave me a major runaround. We only have two different size pay now install 3 come back for 1 general tires are just as good have you heard of gumrubber tires, we can call you back, blah blah blah.

bmwmrc · October 2003

Your salesman response to others here is quite predictable. Since all of our opinions are irrelevant in the bigger picture, unless of course they translate into a shrinking market share by BMW (time will tell), I will refute your silly statement, "BMW client's profile...drop the antique style of shiny wood and cluttered masses of buttons and switches." You can't be serious!? If that's the case, how do you defend the INORDINATE amount of buttons, switches and gimmicks on the "new 7 series?" Talk about cluttered! Talk about overkill? No wonder the car came in last in a head-to-head comparison against, Lexus, MB, Audi and Jaguar in both Automobile magazine and Consumer Reports!

And if one spends upwards of $45,000 to $60,000 one wants LUXURY!!!! PERIOD!!!! It's not all about silly gimmickry that adds nothing to the overall drive. Yes, many of us bought a BMW because of the wonderful engineering of the engine and handling aspects of the car. But it's NOT just about engineering. It's also about luxury! If not, I would have bought a Porsche! And if something like I-Drive truly enhances the ergonomics and the new adaptive steering makes driveability of the car even better, then I'm all for it. But if it's just another "new" gimmick to get loyal BMW owners like myself to buy the car in a few years, at more than a 10% increase in the price, while taking away the luxury aspects of the vehicle with a cheap and austere look (IMO) then that in itself is pure horse dung!

For many of us here who have owned more than one BMW or for new owners to purchase the E39 over the E60 speaks volumes. When the E39 replaced YOUR 1995 that you currently own, I didn't hear one negative comment about the new design, because the design was a pleasant evolution of YOUR car. The E60's design is NOT!!!! And don't insult my intelligence or others here, by stating that the car's "new controversial style, blah, blah blah" is something we have to get used to seeing. The style IMO is NOT new. It's not even forward thinking. The style is an amalgamation of copying many Japanese models that you disparage so much.

Finally, it's one thing to be so positive and optimistic about the new 5 because you're a BMW car salesman. I can respect that. It's another to attempt to come on this forum and belittle many of us, who don't share your views. Remember, we are the ones that bought the car that you used to tout. We are also the one's that can afford a new one if we so choose. At this juncture however, many of us here have elected not to. You don't have to agree or like it, but DON'T, DON'T insult us with your condescension. It's NOT appreciated!

bmwlover3 · October 2003

Costco has a special relationship with Michelin. They are able to order just about any tire they manufacture and a considerable discount. Those of you that are in the Market for tires may want to consider a price comparison. Their price includes things like road hazard, lifetime balance, and rotation. They also have $60.00 coupon about twice a year. I bought tires for my Toyota T100 about a year ago from them and have had a good service experience.

bmwseller · October 2003

If all the functions that are controlled and simplified with the I-drive were presented in a traditional style there would be so many switches, gauges and buttons on the dash you'd have to put them all over the headliner and floorboards. It greatly enhances the ergonomics and safety of the car as it allows the driver to keep there eyes on the road more easily.

Wood trim seems to be a little less desireable to some more sporty clients and you will see more interior options like the cubed or brushed aluminum. Many clients have told me that they don't like the wood. I know that a lot of people like the wood, but it seems that Lexus and MB have more of an appeal to the luxury directed buyers to me. The new 5 has a more modern look that some do not like.
The price increase came after a long period where there was no marked price change. In fact my old 5 had a base price very close to a 2003 model.
I'm taking a lot of heat here on this issue but don't confuse my point. I think the E39 is incredible and commend anyone for selecting the car regardless of whether I'm selling the car or not. I appreciate the improvements in the new car, also. If you so passionately dislike it, than I appreciate this also. If you feel belittled or insulted by any remarks that I made than I certainly and sincerely apologize.
Having said that keep in mind that this is a forum about the 5 series and maybe you could eliminate all the personal comments about me.

houstonmerc · October 2003

I went to the BMW lot yesterday to look at the new 5; there were 2 530s. I'm not nearly as strong in my opinions as some of the posts but thought I'd share my thoughts. I liked the looks of the car more in pictures than I did in person, but I'm half hoping in "grows" on me a little. The rear in particular was a little disappointing in person. Despite all the criticism I like the new 7 (wish I could afford one). I've never driven a BMW but will drive a 545 when I can. I've never considered BMW because of how small previous 5s were, but with the extra size I'll definitely consider it once my "boss" decides I can get a new car. Guys will know what I'm talking about.

bmwmrc · October 2003

Apology accepted.

It was difficult to eliminate some of the comments directed toward you, because your recent posts have come off as condescending and patronizing as if individuals like me, who decided to buy a 2003 5 and who don't care for the new 5 iteration (and I was very open minded about the '04 car)are "very misinformed or foolish." The preceding comments are FURTHEST from the truth. In fact, I bet if you ask others on this forum about keeping an open mind regarding the newest 5, I'm sure all of them would tell you, "they did."

It's not as if all of us want the latest version to be IMO "disappointing." And I certainly didn't want it to be a carbon copy of my car. I did however, want to see a better evolutionary change than the one I saw and test drove last week. I don't need to have a car "grow on me." It's like asking me to have a girl's looks grow on me. Either I'm instantly attracted to the girl or I'm not. I don't need to get to know her better to find out that she's suddenly attractive, because she has this amazing intangible called "inner beauty."

I think you need to watch the patronizing attitude. If you want me or others to respect your opinion than don't belittle us if we happen to disagree with you.

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