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"Capital Group International Inc. (CGII), a big US investment fund, has become the second largest shareholder in Hyundai Motor, giving foreign investors a combined controlling stake in South Korea's biggest carmaker. CGII's stake of 8.07 percent comes on top of a 9 percent stake held by DaimlerChrysler and 4.36 percent held by the Mitsubishi group of Japan. The combined stake of foreign investors is bigger than the 11.05 percent stake controlled by...the Hyundai Motor chairman and son of the founder... CGII is likely to co-operate with [DC] and [Mitsu.] in improving transparenty at Hyundai Motor."
Good news for long-term financial and managerial stability of HMC. This is sort of thing that Daewoo desperately needs right now, foreign investors willing to provide both capital as well as modern managerial oversight. Should bode very well for ensuring Hyundai's future as a viable international car company!
2. There is a big difference in transmission gearing between the automatic and manual V-6s. It works to the performance favor of the manual. I would like to see Hyundai put the XG300 5-speed automatic into the Sonata. That would help the automatic's gearing issues and could improve performance slightly and increase fuel economy.
3. I just hope you pro-automatic people don't mislead readers here into thinking that the automatic Sonata is anything other than the snail it has been repeatedly shown to be by the automotive press. Then if people choose to buy it, knowing how potentially unpleasant it might be to pass on 2-lane roads or merge onto congested highways, they'll have been forewarned.
4. Volfy: Too bad about the pileup near Denton. Remember I-35 & Denton well. As I would come into Texas from the north, would seem like everything going into and out of Denton for too many miles was nothing but one huge billboard after another. Then I knew I was getting close to Dallas.
Agree with your sentiments about the 5 speed tiptronic in the Sonata...feel it is only a matter of time.
Yes, the gearing is somewhat better in the manual...while still falling short of tilting towards true performance. Again, the emphasis is on drivability AND EPA numbers.
Finally, the 2.5L V-6 and automatic tranny combo is not a 'Dog' in performance. Again, if one knows how to DRIVE a car, one can achieve satisfactory performance from any vehicle, at least within its' obvious design parameters. The Sonata GLS is NOT a performance sedan. It is a family sedan, pure and simple. You continually remind me of the 'learned men and women' of the automotive press who seem to know only one standard by which to review vehicles.
All engines can stand upgrading from their initial design. Manufacturers plan on this very 'progress' in the life cycle of every car. Same for trannys and their programmable control modules. But unless a vehicle has a clear design path towards 'performance' then all subsequent iterations are only compromises, at best.
My wife chose this particular car because it 'spoke' to her as she evaluated it. I know what she meant as it felt right for me as well. Neither of us chose this vehicle for any reasons other than what it was clearly designed for---a mid-sized family sedan. It represents the genre better than many other competitors considered. The only car which came close was the Alero which has the same Hp. but much better torque. Being an American car it had the engine/tranny match that we in this country most prefer. But stoplight performance obviously isn't everything. We didn't buy it.
I keep looking for this 'passing situation deficit' you and the 'press' refer to. I have approx. 6500mi. now and have seen virtually every driving situation occur with this car. I can move this vehicle through or around traffic as well as I ever did in my ol' Prelude.
Performance is a relative thing. Most of us who have the GLS with auto are happy with the performance levels we achieve. There is nothing wrong with us for choosing this lesser performance when compared to the manual. And there is nothing wrong with the car as equipped. We bought what we wanted as did you. We are happy you like your car. Now stop the incessant attack on what you consider a non-performer. We obviously don't.
P.S. It is great to back among friends. Geesh, you never really miss something until it's gone. Now, if we could just get the T-H-C up and running.
precisely the kind of variable that figures in when choosing an automobile. When you are twenty and have twenty year old knees I say knock yourself out. When I was younger I thought everyone was crazy to drive an automatic. All the things Giowa loves about manuals were just as true for me.
But technology has moved on. Automobiles today perform with remarkable levels of sophistication.
The driving experience for me has become a more refined one. There is less need for ultimate handling at the limit and instead a greater appreciation of the subtle, mundane tasks involved in the everyday drive. When these things are done with routine competence and assurance, I find the 'drive' to be just as fulfilling.
What I always like is knowing the abilities of whatever vehicle I drive. When you know the limits of vehicle performance you don't need to constantly be 'on the edge'. You can instead drive with the kind of 'calm' it takes to get you where you need to go.
Anyone ever notice that most of the damage to our cars comes from it being at home and in or around the garage?
Tony
http://members.nbci.com/sonatafan/index.htm
ALSO, your protective decorative cover was held in place with 4 bolts, mine was held by 6 !! The two on the side by the timing belt cover held it too? Weird again. I enclosed a link to some pics of mine.
I also included what would be considered a weird pic and that is od the muffler. It really bothered me when we got it that it had that splotchy black undercoating only on half of the muffler back piece by the tail pipe. I took some heat proof bar-ba-q grill paint and shot the whole back of it. It still looks good since April.
Here is the link....... http://www.geocities.com/tonykrapil/sonatapics.jpg
I am really surprised of the different cover and different plugs.
It is still too early to tell for sure, BUT the plugz are looking like a real good investment based on the fuel gauge!
Hope you find the platinum+4's do your Sonata good too!.
Tony
2. You are absolutely right that the option of getting a stick should be more readily available, all over USA.
3. I think anyone who has driven a Sonata, let alone read a review, knows immediately that it is a family sedan. But who says family sedans can't come with manuals? That's the problem. Detroit thinks that just because it will be used by a family that an automatic is mandatory. Because spouse can't drive a stick? Because who wants to shift while using their cell phone while swagging away on a 44 oz Big Gulp? Detroit has lost too much market share with its bogus assumptions and pre-conceived notions. Hyundai needs to build market share by thinking outside the box. That includes building and promoting manual V-6 sedans.
4. Manuals will be back in America. They've never left Europe or Asia. When gas prices finally keep and stay at higher prices, or after Congress keeps raising gas taxes, people will want more manuals. Fill a Sonata's tank. Even at $1.50 a gallon, you're looking at over $30.
Could it be that your take on the manual transmission is a bit off too?
Well, I was a bit bored last week and the weather was perfect for doing a little under the hood work.
What I did notice was that the cable which connects the spark pacs and gives them the energy to fire and signal when to fire was about 50% seated on my Sonata. This may have been other folks real problem and not the plugs in the first place.
As long as I was in there, I relaced them with the Bosch Platinum+4s. I have had great results in my Ford ranger, (a 5 spd by the way)(just thought you should know this) and decided if I am gonna get in there, I may as well change em out and do it right.
It took about 30 minutes.
As far as more power, I sure think so, but it may be wishful thinking on my part.
I will also go out on a limb here an state an observation.... when my tank is at 3/4 I have 80 miles on the trip odometer. This has always been the case + or - a couple of miles.
I now have 117 and I am not to the 3/4 mark yet.
Sooo, something is going on and it is in the positive direction.
Will report back after a tank or two.
Sonatafan also installed the same plugs and looking forward to hearing his report.
Tony
hey, I'm just a little curious, how long is the boat ride for these cars from Korea?
A tank fill on my Sonata GLS V6 costs over $50.00 Aus.
Our petrol pricing is linked to the world price of crude oil so the price has increased by approx. 40% in the last year.
Just think of me when you next fill up.
The guy was sidways in traffic trying to make it from the right lane to the far left turn lane. I also was in the right lane and went behind him as he made his move. He was stuck in traffic blocking the middle lane sideways. No problems yet. Well from there he pushed in his clutch and hes truck rolled backwards 3 feet due to the street slope and hit my car. Damned Manuals.
The guys been driving his stick for 10 years. 1991 Nissan Hardbody.
P.S. We get hit by guys in manuals - the guys in manuals get hit by furniture moving trucks! :-)
2. herne: Financial Times had an interesting article on the continuing decline of the Aus $ in relation to US $. It, like Canada's dollar, continues to decline. Aus $ at around $.5110 US. So $50 Aus is AROUND $26 US (actually $25.55 US). So you are paying about what we are paying if you convert into US dollar. Remember that oil is sold in dollars on the international market. That is one big reason that the fall of the euro is killing european fuel prices.
3. rammit2000: Sorry to hear about your accident. Hope you don't have to wait as long for parts as I did. My repair took over 5 weeks; however, yours' sounds less intensive. (My shop did do great work and I can't tell a thing!)
4. My wife has been hit 5 times in the past 5 years, each time while she was stopped at a stop light minding her own business. In each case she was hit by someone driving an automatic. The last time by someone backing out of the post office, angled parked in relation to the street. I believe that in each case the driver just wasn't paying any attention to the road. And why should they, don't they already have the car driving them rather than driving the car? Maybe they were too busy on their cell phones slammin' that 44 oz Big Gulp? Do you need any hands to drive an automatic? (Just kidding.)
Automatics tend to be a huge fuel economy drag in city driving. For example, my Lincoln LS8 is rated 17/23. It will get around 23-25 mpg on the highway. It has never gotten more than about 14-15 mpg in extended city driving. In most cases, the car's fuel computer, which is pretty accurate, shows city mileage at around 11-13 mpg, doing mostly 25-25 mph. In same towns and roads, my Sonata, rated 20/28, will get about 21-23 mpg in extensive city driving. She gets around 28-30 mpg on highway.
Above is FIY only - not trying to steer the argument one way or the other.
As for being accident victims, I've been involved in 4 major accidents so far in my driving career (in which 2 of my cars were totaled) and none were my fault. ALL my cars were 5sp, and ALL the other vehicles were automatics. :-)
Being that I am driving a brand new pickup truck courtesy of the most recent accident, I have little to complain... as long as I didn't get killed or maimed that is. ;-)
although it's not fair to compare a 2.5L V6 with a 3.9 V8 (my God that's a small V8!) I can see your point that it might save a few bucks here and there, but I think most automatics can match the numbers of a stick.
a 3.9?! that's gotta be the smallest V8 to go into a T-Bird, isn't it?
By the way, Sonatafan pointed out the older 2000 Sonatas dont have a chrome beauty strip above the Sonata letters on the trunk lid like mine does. It sure makes a difference.
There are only two Sonatas here in Sidney, Oh.
I havent seen another one for a month at least and I cruise the I-75 between Dayton and Lima quite a bit. I saw a 4 cyl Santa Fe at a Lima dealer for US$17000 last week, I sorta wished I waited.
I think the transmission shifts as smooth as most any car with auto I have been in.
For what its worth, the auto trannys' have a very accessible filter on them which would be a snap to replace.
Something no one ever mentions when speaking of a manual transmission is the drivers skill to harness that power curve. While it is true, a manual tranny with a 'good experienced in-tune with his car driver' will get better performance and mileage that could one mean that a not so 'with-it' driver will NOT get the benefits of better mileage and long life clutches etc.
I, although have an auto, do agree that the right person can do better with manual.
See ya,
Tony
(Guessing you are correct that the 3.9L V-8 may be the smallest displacment V-8 engine used in a T-bird, though I'm not sure about the size of the '55-'57s and the post '77 cars often had a smaller 6 cylinder (e.g., 3.8L V-6). Think the early '80s T-bird sport model used a smallish turbocharged I-4.)
Tony's right; a good stick driver can out drive an automatic, but the average driver (like me) will get better results with the auto. Most of my stick driving was in an F-150, though. The (3) pedals on 5sp. cars are just too close for my pontoon like feet...
My Vic (with its 5.0L V8) gets 17 in 80% city driving. 17 vs 22 for an 800 lbs difference; ain't too bad, but you guys blow me away on the hwy...
Now if the automakers are to offer a choice of auto vs manual, why not 'where' the auto shifter is? (floor or column), eh?
I've known all along I was in the Hyundai Sonata 3 forum.
Happy Post Election to ya!
I'm also an owner of 00 base Sonata with Auto.
Had only one problem so far...blown speaker.
I bought it just to help Korean economy, just like I bought a Kia.
Now, I can say it was very smart choice, and I'm proud of myself as being a Korean. Even though my wife is Korean, she was 100% negative about Hyundai. Of course, the Kia Sephia I gave her bad impression too ( I took that car in 8-9 times for little problems with in 20 months). I had to promise her that I would sleep in the car if new hyundai breaks down like Kia did.
After 5 months of driving 7000 miles, she rather drives Hyundai than her Honda Accord.
What a surprise!!!!!!! My wife's brother bought a V6 Sonata after he test drove mine. My best friend Chad bought Hyundai Enlantra yesterday, After he drove my Sonata several times to work. Another co-worker went out to buy Santa-fe tonight. My american brother-in-law also looking at XG300 instead of Acura.
You all guys and ladies made good and smart choice.
I am very positive that soon or later, we will see Hyundai beats the Japanese car for quality & reliability too. Resale value will rise naturally.
Check out all the reviews on internet, you can hardly see any bad reviews from either professional or casual drivers on Hyundai. Especially, new Santa- fe gets more points than Honda & Toyota's smaller sized & bigger payment suvs.
I hope you guys all have safe driving in the Sonata, and I will come back to see more comments.
kwonc71, I hope your friends all bought their vehicle from a dealer that rewards you in some way. Customer satisfaction is one of the BEST reasons for buying a car.
Hope to hear more success stories.
Tony
Like other lurkers, I've enjoyed and been greatly helped by the postings here. The only thing I'd advise to anyone considering buying a new car, or any other expensive purchase, is to check the company's rating at the website for the Better Business Bureau (www.bbb.org). Most localities have their ratings accessible online. Had I checked out the dealership ahead of time, I wouldn't have bought my Sonata where I did back in September:
I first checked at Fairfax (VA) Hyundai and the salesman (who no longer works there) was not willing to come down off of the MSRP, and blatantly lied about their deferred first-payment financing, which was in their ads. Disgusted, I checked at College Park Hyundai (in MD) and they were very high-pressure in their approach, but came down so low I couldn't turn down their offer. I ended up getting a White Pearl 2000 Sonata auto V6 w/a package 10 (moonroof and stereo upgrade) and cargo net for $15,500 all fees and taxes included.
When I left the dealership with the car, I couldn't be happier... until the next day, when I returned for my other car that I had left there (I didn't bring anyone with me since I didn't expect the high-pressure sales and wasn't planning to buy that night). My car that was left in the dealer's lot was scratched up extensively with a key, and I'm not talking about a simple dragging of the key, I'm talking about several, deep, up and down scratches. Now, I can't prove it, but I strongly believe it was some of the dealer staff that did it, since I had kept them there an hour-and-a-half past closing, and still walked out to leave once, because of the "fuzzy math" that the financing person was doing. All I asked for was $15 re-imbursment for some cheap touch-up paint, and the sales manager refused. The salesman finally gave me $15 out of his own pocket, only because he was worried about his customer service survey score.
During most of my interaction after the deal, the salesman and assistant sales manager were constantly asking, "Well, you're going to give us 100% on the survey, right?". I don't like bargaining for customer service. There were a few other problems with the dealership, but suffice it to say that the incredible price certainly wasn't worth all the troubles, and next time I'll check out the BBB rating for the dealership beforehand.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the car. Haven't received the recall notice yet, but the engine has fluttered a couple of times at low speed and the check engine light came on for 5 minutes one cold morning. I've also found the paint very easy to chip and dent on my White Pearl (I had the dealership fix two, but received another chip a week later). Also, the fan occassionally makes a loud noise when I turn it to a high speed (3-5) first thing in the morning.
Thanks for all the posts everyone,
Tom
I never thought for one second that a dealer could have a 'good' rating.
Tony
The funny part is that it lists them as an actual Member of the Better Business Bureau, so they're supposed to be committed to the Bureau's principles and standards, including "ethical business practices".
(BBB's are generally independent and can vary from area to area)
That sounds like something Hyundai should be made aware of.
By the way, what city was this in????
I can see leaving a deposit on the car refunded at the end of test drive when going alone without any one from the dealership, but never charging for the test ride itself.
Do you know what he wanted to charge you???
Tony
I heard second hand that if anything on the list was not right, they did not have to take the car.
As it is, I bought mine in Melbourne Florida about some 75 miles from here as they were no pressure, had what I wanted and loved to take business away from our local dealers.
No regrets here.
Second coat of wax today and it still looks like brand new with over 5k miles on it.
So far, my base 00 Sonata with auto exceeds expectations in every area.
See ya,
Tony
It has to be the fastest easiest longest lasting wax I have ever used. It does not make a mess out of the black window trim is accidentally applied. The only gripe about the wax is its container. It has a great feel applicator with heavy duty sponge etc etc BUT the wax is stored above the sponge and there is a button you press to get some wax out to the sponge... sometimes you pump and pump and nothing.... then all of a sudden POWWWWWWW more wax than ya need to do an entire cars comes flying out. They have supposedly redone the container some.
All I can say about car washes is 'friends DONT let friends take their a car wash'
Tony
Just a thought?!
Tony