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Transmission Traumas?

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    spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    We have an '87 Buick LeSabre 3.8L with the "shudder" symptom which you addressed. The "shudder" is most pronounced at 1200-1400 RPM at light to moderate load. It's very smooth at 2200+ RPM at any load. Compression cyl-to-cyl ranges from 180 to 184 PSI. Mileage is 125K but this condition has existed for 80K miles. Replacements include ignition coils at 70K, secondary wiring at 100K, and spark plugs at ~20K intervals. Also replaced fuel injectors, mass flow sensor, crank position sensor, torque converter. None of these changes provided any improvement. No trouble codes have registered. Your above explanation seems to address this problem perfectly but can you tell us more, please? For example, is there some aftermarket coil set that could be used or might one of the specialty spark plug types help? Thanks for your attention.
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Spokane, if you used HIGH quality plug wires and not inferior ones (they do tend to go away quickly), then I'd look at the TCC engagement point. Not knowing if your car has a 125 (3T40 3 speed) or a 440 (4T60 4 speed overdrive) transaxle, or whether it's ECM controlled or not (some weren't), I'll try to give you some general pointers. Non-ECM control used a governor pressure switch on the valve body to provide the solenoid ground. Typical is 32 p.s.i. Governor pressure is roughly equal to road speed in M.P.H., so the TCC could enable at pretty low speed. GM sells about 10 different governor switches up to around 56 p.s.i. Simple to change. Don't have the part numbers here at home but could dig 'em up at the college if needed. ECM controlled units relied on inputs from vehicle speed sensor, throttle position sensor, MAP or mass airflow sensor, and coolant temp sensor (trans temp sensor on some, too). The PROM in the ECM can be changed to an updated version if available. Typical PROM updates provide richer cold fuel mixture for improved cold idle, and higher TCC engagement speed. (GM had to get their CAFE ratings up somehow). A scan tool will provide the PROM ID number, then call your GM dealer and see if there's an updated one available. Also, check your throttle position sensor voltage to verify proper adjustment. Drive the car with a scan tool attached. It will display TCC status. If the "TCC ON" light fluctuates when you feel the shudder, it's in the TCC controls. If not, you have an engine performance problem. The engine MUST be in good running condition for the transaxle controls to work properly. They can only respond to the signals they receive. Good luck, and keep me posted.
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    butch11butch11 Member Posts: 153
    What specific ATF does GMC recommend for a 87 2.8L V6 chevy blazer. Also does this thing have a filter or just a screen that is cleaned when the tranny pan is dropped.

    thanks
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Dexron III. A filter.
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    jjackson43jjackson43 Member Posts: 27
    My granddaughter has an 87 T-Bird, and when I drove it the other day I noticed what might be described as a "shudder" when slowing down (let up on the accelerator coming to a light or stop sign) when the vehicle was still cold. It seems to be less noticable when the vehicle has warmed up.

    I don't know much about the Ford products, could this possibly be a governor pressure switch...?

    Thanks, John
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    codakcodak Member Posts: 10
    I have a 99 solara with a manual transmission and the dealer recommended that I have the transmission fluid flushed at 30,000 miles. Is it necessary to change or flush the transmission fluid in a manual transmission car?
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    butch11butch11 Member Posts: 153
    This dealer came up with a new one-guess he has a big boat payment due. Never ever heard of a manual tranny requiring a flush-betcha it has a $200 price tag. Just change the tranny oil when it is hot-on level ground and replace it with the recommended oil. Would not go synthetic unless you live in northern MN, Canada or the interior of Alaska. Just follow what your owner's manual says and I would find another dealer-this guy has his sights set on your wallet.
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    div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Follow the Toyota's service schedule, making sure you use the proper lubricant. Some gearboxes use ATF, others gear oil, while some use proprietary fluids. I would use a synthetic; many manual gearboxes are difficult to shift initially in sub-freezing conditions. A synthetic of the proper specification and grade will often cure the problem completely. Anyway, the added cost per mile for synthetic is negligible when you are discussing 30000+ mile drain intervals.
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    touchtontouchton Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for the feedback and here is an update:

    Boo Hiss on aftermarket spark plug wires. Replaced with GM wires and the car runs great!! Always avoided GM wires due to cost... well now I own a cheap set that looks great in the trash can. (Actually, the GM wires were only $15 more)
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    spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    Alcan, your advice on the low-RPM shudder makes more sense than any I've received elsewhere. This 3.8 Buick has the THM-440 4-speed transmission with ECM controls and the TCC engagement point has always seemed to be too low ...just as you indicate. I will indeed check the TPS and coolant temp sensors as you suggest and see if an updated PROM with a higher engagement point is available. The replacement AC Delco secondary wiring did not help, but after hearing Touchton's experience, would you suggest Packard or some other wiring rather than the aftermarket AC Delco? (In my "outdated" experience, spark failure was usually associated with high cylinder BMEP ... but that experiece pre-dated electronic engines controls which have the possibility of providing a mixture that won't ignite at low cylinder pressures.) Thanks; I'll provide an update although it will take a few weeks.
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    reiter1reiter1 Member Posts: 1
    My 1999 Dodge Caravan has already been towed to the dealership - they replaced a "COMPUTER SENSOR" for the transmission. Now the van seems to want to stall when I've driven it over 15 miles on the freeway - it then seems to want to stall when I get off the freeway? Have you heard of this problem before? It had approx. 16,000 miles when the sensor was replaced - it now has 18,000 miles
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    joelbjoelb Member Posts: 16
    I have a 1991 Hyundai Scoupe that needs a new transmission. The existing transmission is a Misubishi KM-201. How can I find out what other model cars have the same transmission or a compatible transmission?
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    risraelrisrael Member Posts: 1
    I to have a Mitusubishi transmission, I dont know where you can get a new one, but has anybody had rouble with the transmissions in their 1996 Galant. My first transmission went out at 25000 miles, and now at 65000, it is acting up again. If you need a new transmission, do not buy a refurbished one.
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    eparkeeparke Member Posts: 3
    Here's my story: Ordered a brand new 1997 GD
    Caravan Sport. At 30K the transmission was acting
    funny, each time it was taken to the Dodge dealer
    they said it's alright. At 43K (now out of
    warranty) it would only go into 2nd or reverse.
    Chrysler said, 'to bad', and only paid half the
    $1,500 it cost to fix. And the Dodge dealer would
    only give $10,000 for it as a trade in. So, Two
    things if you buy a Chrysler product minivan: 1)
    buy an expensive extended warranty, 2) resale will
    be very low.
    Now after surfing the internet, I see I am not
    along. Verdict: Chrsyler minivans look nice, but
    have no quality or resale.
    Has anyone been successful at suing Chrysler?
    For 2001, also know that Chrysler has repeatedly
    said over the past 10 years that they have fixed
    their transmisson problem.
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    hooferhoofer Member Posts: 43
    See this CR article:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/Special/ConsumerInterest/Reports/9910war0.htm

    Have you done any service to the transmission? I always recommend that you follow the "severe" schedule no matter what style of driving you do.

    Make sure that you only have dealership work on transmission so that you get the proper fluid (ATF+3/Type 7176 - NOT Mercon/Dexron III). You can see my dealings with DC and transmissions on the Vans board - Topic #970.

    best of luck
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    discoverdiscover Member Posts: 1
    At times the transmission on the 99 venture van hesitates to shift at low speeds usually making the engine whine before a hard jerk shift occurs. There will be two hard jerk shifts and then everything seems fine at highway speeds of 45 or more.
    The problem first occurred around 18,000 miles. The dealer suggested to keep driving till the problem was happening and bring it in at that time. Since I live in the county and have a lot of highway miles driving I am having a hard time getting the dealer mechanic to experience this problem. The dealer change the valve body but there was no improvement. The van now has 28,000 miles now.
    The problem has never occurred when the van is first started from home. The problem can stop when the engine is shut off or sometimes the problem will stop on its on while driving. The service engine light has never come on. Any suggestions?
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    rikmarikma Member Posts: 2
    The transmission on my new 1999 BMW 323i automatic broke 4 days after picking it up from the dealer last year. It had 180 miles on it. The transmission was so far gone that it had to be completely replaced. I had hoped it would be a one time thing, but I was wrong.
    This past Sunday (with the car now having 12,270 miles on it), while I was in park, the car jumped into reverse. Then it got stuck in S2, which is like 2 or 3 on most automatic cars. Again the car was immobilized because of a transmission problem. (
    Needless to say, I would never ever buy a BMW again.
    Has anyone else heard of these kinds of problems with the 323?
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    twosctrjnstwosctrjns Member Posts: 13
    Hello tranny talkers, I have a question regarding tranny fluid. I was a pepboys last night looking for Dextron II and the guy told me that Dextron III is the replacement for DII. Is this true? Is there someplace on the web I can confirm this before I put it in and burn up my tranny?

    Thanks in advance.
    Doug
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    jjackson43jjackson43 Member Posts: 27
    Do you have a Ford or GM product..? For a number of years I have used Dextron III when changing my Chevy tranny oil, and I use the same for my Granddaughters Ford.

    Need ATF + 3 for Jeep/Chry products.

    I'd call a new car dealer if you want to confirm.

    John
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    div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Dexron III is indeed "backward compatible" with Dexron II. Dexron II can be used in ANY transmission where Dexron II is recommended. Dexron III is formulated to meet tougher specifications as to varnish formation and thermal breakdown.
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    twosctrjnstwosctrjns Member Posts: 13
    Thank you for getting back quickly. I do appreciate it. Happy tranny talk to you all.

    Bye.
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    spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    I feel sure div2 is correct but I did find an exception in the case of pre-1996 Hondas and Acuras. American Honda specifies Dexron-II or Honda's own brand for these cars. Lubrication engineers at Exxon-Mobil and Valvoline both agreed that, since their companies converted to Dexron-III, they do not have an ATF suitable for use on the pre-1996 Honda/Acura. I also spoke with a lube engineer at Quaker State who concurred with the others regarding the use of Dexron-III in these cars. However Q.S. does still produce and market a Dexron-II; it is labeled "Quaker State Special Import ATF." Fine print on the container also specifies it to be a Dexron-II. If anyone knows of other exceptions to the "backward-compatibility" Dexron-III issue, please let us know.
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    dmkdmk Member Posts: 22
    I believe you can purchase a product called "Lube Guard" that has friction modifiers for Honda and Chrysler trannys. Most Napa stores carry the Lube Guard or can order it.
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    hooferhoofer Member Posts: 43
    for Chrysler products. They need the correct ATF+(Type 7176) or ATF+6 (type 9602).

    If anyone tells you to use Mercon/Dexron III with some additive RUN:

    www.allpar.com

    best of luck
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    mcon13mcon13 Member Posts: 2
    I own a 96' Mazda Millenia with the "Miller Cycle" engine. I experienced catastrophic failure of the transmission at 69k miles. Has anyone else had problems with the Millenia S?? I know the 626 four bangers had problems with their Ford tranny. I understand my car has virtually the same tranny as the Nissan Maxima. In addition to the tranny failure, the parts to replace during overhaul were 2 and 3 times more expensive than with other transmissions. This car is getting very expensive to own!!!
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    joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    I own a 00 cavalier with this trans.I would like to know the Chevy recommended procedure for making a fluid check,it has no dipstick.Up until this trans.there has always been a hot & cold check.I know this trans.has 1 check plug,i was wondering how they do a hot & cold with 1 plug.Getting a exact procedure has been a problem,i would appreciate a response from anyone with the knowledge to enlighten me.Thanks.
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Raise vehicle. With engine at hot idle in PARK, remove transaxle fluid level check plug. Fluid level should be at lower edge of hole. If excessive, allow fluid to run out until level is at hole. If low, add Dexron III at filler plug/case vent in 1/2 litre increments until fluid is at proper level.
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    joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    Thanks for the reply,with the dipstick set up you fill the trans. to the cold line so its safe to run it to operating temp. which is usually 15 mi.With one plug how do add fluid to safe level if say you had a leak of unknown quantity.If you filled cold you should be over filled hot.I dont understand how after 50 yrs they dont have a cold level.I have done trans. work an relied on the cold check to make sure its safe to run it for a 15 mi hot check.The information does not seem to available.
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    The 4T40, 60, and 80 E transaxles have a thermal element in the channel plate which opens up when trans temp exceeds 104F., drawing fluid from the lower sump to the upper sump. The fluid level in the lower sump can actually DECREASE as the unit warms up. When checking fluid level, DO NOT remove the check plug unless the engine is running, or shut the engine off with it out. You'll lose a couple of litres of fluid. If checking with a cold engine (running), you may lose 1/2 - 1 litre out the plug hole. Keep the plug out until the unit is fully warmed up, then add as required to bring the level even with the bottom of the hole and re-install the plug.

    BTW, the lack of a dipstick is in line with your U.S. law which requires a vehicle to be "untouchable" for 100,000 miles other than routine service such as checking belts, changing air filters, etc. Hence Dexcool 100K coolant, platinum plugs, and other extended service items.
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    packman2packman2 Member Posts: 13
    It sounds like they are trying to make cars like a Bic lighter,,when it's used up you throw it away....so what if we spend 20 or 30 thousand dollars in the meantime...The more I read about the new technology,,the more I want a car from 1965-1975 in good shape,,
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    joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    Thanks again.I had a 3T40 with a dip stick an the cold level was higher than the hotlevel this due to a thermo switch in the upper chamber that closed when hot an trapped fluid in the chamber.Thats why 1 ck plug doesn't cut it.I going to check with Chevy an see if they have a dipstick kit I can install.
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    hifi1hifi1 Member Posts: 1
    Eparke #483 - how did you get the 1/2 off your transmission? Mine just blew at 54,300 and the dealer wants full price to replace.
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    katykatzkatykatz Member Posts: 1
    i have a 1995 mercury mistique, it has 69,000 miles on it and i just had the transmission replaced....thank god for extended warranties
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    79377937 Member Posts: 390
    Alcan, thanks for that information on 4T40 transmission. It has also cleared up something that has puzzled me. The user manual on the Cavalier says that the transmission is not user- serviceable. I have a Chiltons service manual on the 1995 - 2000 Cavalier. For that transmission they give another procedure but I think they are a bit behind the times.

    Would you recommend synthetic AT fluid? It appears as if Amsoil makes one which they claim exceeds all manufacturers specifications.
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Glad to be of help. Our college has a G.M. Tech Centre for dealer technician product service training, so it was pretty much pop in a current factory manual CD and give you the Readers' Digest version.

    Gotta love that "not user-serviceable". What about the thousands of drivers who don't plan on doing driveway trans rebuilds but would like the assurance that there's something in there? First rad caps, now trans dipsticks. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

    Regarding the synthetic fluid, as long as the label says "Meets or Exceeds Requirements of Dexron III (GM 6297-M)" it won't invalidate your warranty. Go for it. Superior stuff in every way.
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    79377937 Member Posts: 390
    Alcan, I agree on the conspiracy. I've been servicing my own cars for the last 40 years and never had problems. Now I'm told I cannot even check my transmission fluid. The dealers rip you off for a simple oil change. My colleague at work takes his Saturn in for its regular 3 monthly oil and filter change and is lucky if he pays under $90.00 for it. And then he has to leave the car there for the whole day. Invariably they'll phone him up and tell him he needs extra work done. Bills of $300 a pop are not uncommon. At one time he had a slight miss at highway speeds. It ended up by him paying $600 for an ignitor module. When he asked what was wrong with the old one, he was told it was "rusty." If it were my car with the same symptoms I would have first checked spark plugs and ignition wires.
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    stadiferstadifer Member Posts: 1
    Tell me people that know more about cars then
    myself. I have a 1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS.. I've
    owned it for a year and its been into the same
    tranny shop 6 different times over this time span
    and during that time the following has happend.

    Transmission has gone out 3x
    Bad shifting 3x

    They've replaced multiple broke shafts and other
    various pieces as well as rebuilt the tranny but
    three months later I was back in the shop with a
    new transmission problem! Fortunetly I only paid
    the first $1500 cost of the intial repair and the
    5
    different times its been in after that have been
    at their cost.

    What should I do?!?!? I'm already preparing a
    letter to Mitsubishi with repair records demanding
    action. I can't return it to the lot since it was
    a
    30 day return warranty which of course it ran fine
    for those 30 days. I'm stuck with a pile of scrap
    metal that I'm even having a hard time selling
    despite it being in excellent physical condition!
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    armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    You stated tranny shop which implies other then a dealer. So, Mitsubishi is not to blame here. The sleazy AAMCO's of the world are. Typical AAMCo problem, get the full warranty and keep going back. Sorry, but I think that you got what you paid for. If I am wrong and it was a dealer then you have a case!
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    geisslergeissler Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1996 Dodge Neon with the auto trans.
    Does anybody know what kind of trans. fluid is
    recommened and the fluid capacity of the trans.
    Thankyou
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Read the dipstick. I think the 1996 spec was still Mopar ATF+3 (Type 7176). Dexron III/Mercon may be used to "top up" the trans only. Failure to use the correct Mopar fluid on a refill may result in deteriorated shift quality and/or converter clutch shudder.
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    burkle1burkle1 Member Posts: 1
    My jimmy had the original tranny replaced at 27,ooo by the dealer without a question. Now the car has 72,000 miles and needs another one!!! I do not know exactly what went wrong with this one they said its "shot". The GM rep on the phone asked if they told me it was a factory flaw(right). At this point the dealer is out of it and we're waiting on the regional service rep to make his monthly pass thru to see if I can get any help from GM in taking care of this. I find it sinful that GM cannot make a transmission that they will stand behind. The GM rep told me all new parts only carry a 12,000 mile warranty..They must not have faith in them either.
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    lucky2_95lucky2_95 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1990 Nissan Stanza 5 speed that needs a new transmission, and I keep getting asked if the car has a locking or non-locking differential. I have no clue how to tell which it is. Can someone please enlighten me on what the difference is between the two, and how I can tell which I have???
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    vandeanovandeano Member Posts: 27
    I have a 97 K1500 Suburban, w/ 49k miles. My question is.....what would cause the trany to shift hard from 1st to 2nd? When I say hard, I mean hard, It slams into 2nd.
    But this problem only happens after driving on the freeway for at least 30 miles(warmed up).

    When Im doing city driving (stop and go) you can start to feel harsher up shifts, but nothing close to freeway driving.
    What puzzles me the most is, when I shut down the engine and let it sit for a couple minutes, and then continue driving, everything is fine for a little while.
    The oil looks fine, and there is no burnt smell. I even changed the filter and oil... and still have the same problem.....has anyone else had this prob. or maybe has an answer
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    My brother in law had this exact problem, I drove it and can confirm it reacted just as your describing. It needed a new trans control module. I remember it wasn't under warranty and was about $400 to repair.
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Harsh or Soft 1-2 Shift Feel:

    Oil Pressure
    1-2 Accumulator Piston, Cover, or Springs- damaged
    Control Valve Body- stuck 1-2 accumulator valve or mislocated 1-2 accumulator bushing retainer
    Driven Sprocket Support- rolled or twisted seal or worn sleeve in 2nd clutch housing
    1-2 Accumulator Seal- cut seal
    1-2 Accumulator valve- stuck valve

    Source: 1997 4T60-E Automatic Transaxle Diagnosis and Overhaul Manual

    If other shifts have the appropriate "feel", you can eliminate oil pressure. The most likely problem is a 1-2 accumulator malfunction (leak or bind). Could also be the accumulator valve binding in it's bore in the valve body as the unit heats up, or a leaking valve body or accumulator gasket.
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    alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    OOPS....meant Automatic TransMISSION Manual :)

    BTW, this transmission does not have a dedicated control module. Shift points, line pressure boost, and converter clutch apply are controlled by the Powertrain Control Module which also looks after engine fuel delivery, spark management, etc.
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    jjackson43jjackson43 Member Posts: 27
    I have a 1989 Chevy Van w/the 700R4. Recently it seems to have a "jerking" feeling when I lift off of the accellerator. I have no upward shifting problems at all, and the oil/filter have been changed every 15K miles or less, plus I have oil coolers on it. I also seem to have a "harsh" downshift from 2nd to 1st when the gear selection lever is in 3rd...I don't notice it when in 4th..?

    Any thoughts...?

    Thanks, John
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    vandeanovandeano Member Posts: 27
    Before I go on, I just would like to say I very much appreciate the quick response to my problem (Burdawg, Alcan).

    According to this book I have just found, "GMC Authentic Technical Service Information on Transmission Diagnosis and Electrical Diagnosis".
    Just let me say this, any book that has the "Authentic Technical" stamp on it, you know you have the answer to all your problems. (Ya, right)

    To start off, I have to rephrase my first question to when I said HARD and Harsh, to DELAY SHIFT: meaning a condition in which a shift is expected but does not occur for a period of time. Delayed is also defined as late or Extended.

    HARSH (ROUGH): meaning a more noticeable engagement of a clutch or a band as compared with "Firm". This condition is considered undesirable at any throttle position.

    Delayed is more like my problem. When you first start to take off, your waiting for it to shift as your RPM goes up but nothing, then all of a sudden BAM it shifts. When I had my 84 Chevy Blazer w/ the 700R and if you had that problem, most likely all you had to do was adjust your kick down cable.
    But according to this book I have been reading, basicly everything is controlled by the computer (OBD) and I mean "everything". You would think it would at least set a Trouble Code to what is happening. I guess I'll read on, I was hoping maybe there was a quick fix.

    One more thing, Burdwag when you said it was'nt under warranty, did you mean the warranty expired or the warranty would not cover that particular part? Because I have the extended warranty with Warranty Gold. But thats a whole other topic.
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    vandeanovandeano Member Posts: 27
    Jackson43, when you say "jerking" do you mean,
    SHUDEDER: meaning a continuous jerking condition similar to "Chuggle" but more sever rapid. This condition is most noticeable during certain car speed ranges. This is according to my "Authentic Technical Service" book.
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    I meant that his Suburban was no longer under warranty (about 75K). In your case it should be different since your still under warranty. Also I should mention that it's true that there is only one control processor for the vehicle, the trans control is a subsection of it. Also, my brother in law informs me that it was closer to $500, but isn't sure if other service was done at the same time.
    I remember it did exactly as you described. I was moving some stuff up to UC Santa Barbara for my daughter. It was fine for about a half hour then started to act up. Once in overdrive on the highway it was fine of course. After stopping for a while it would be OK and then shortly it would act up again. Shifting manually had no effect. My brother in law said it had been acting up this way intermittently for some time. Actually he said the next day it was fine but then started acting up again later in the week.
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