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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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  • zubazuba Posts: 58
    Great question - I would like to know the answer as well!!

    I just struck a great deal on ED - and am sleeping on a few options over the weekend before pulling the trigger - so I would like to know about Ed financing as well!!

    I know you have to pay for the car ahead of time!

    When do you pay State taxes on the car? When you register it upon arrival?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    In 1998, I negotiated a non-ED deal for my current 1999 328i, the MSRP was $38,720 and the negotiated price was $36,777.66. I leased the car with a "Zero Down" lease (meaning paying security, first month and origination fee, totaling about $1,400), which worked out to $510 per month for 39 months. During the process, I visited the dealership three times, the first was to test drive and start negotiations, the second was to order the car and pay the initial deposit money, and the third was to pay the final monies due, sign the final paperwork, and take delivery of the car. Said three visits took place over a three and a half month period, and no one visit took more than an hour (including the test drive). Given that I was active on the TownHall 3-Series board of the time, I knew what type of deal I should have been able to negotiate, and told the salesman that fact when I first met him. He countered with his “No BS best price” which was less than $200 higher than the number that I was looking for (which I had not told him yet), and I decided to look no further, done deal.

    Total savings (interpolated from the old lease agreement):
    CAP: ~$1,942.34
    Monthly: ~$57.20

    Now, in 2002, once again, being active on the BMW boards, I had a fair idea of the type of deal that I was looking for, namely, about $1,500 over ED invoice. A 20-minute discussion with a salesman at the dealership where I leased the 328i provided no joy, so I decided to call around. On my first call, I made my offer; the salesman said “I will call you back in five minutes.” He called back in eight minutes, and asked me if I was willing to order the car right then, and I told him the equipment that I wanted and that I would be right over with a deposit check. I drove right over, signed the order, gave him a deposit, and walked out with a 36 month lease on a $47,395 MSRP car for $558 per month (CAP cost of $42,180), once again with “Zero Down” (meaning paying security, first month AND second month (required by BMWFS for ED), GAP insurance (also required by BMWFS, and not a bad idea anyway), and origination fee, totaling about $2,500). I have since had to make two other trips to the dealership to sign an ED related document, and deliver a notarized photocopy of my Passport, and to drop off the final monies due 30 days prior to delivery in Munich.

    Total savings (less the cost of the trip):
    CAP: $5,684.35 (Including extra sales and luxury taxes)
    Monthly: $170.00

    Given that I travel a fair amount, and have the associated costs calculated fairly accurately (and I am sure that I have), the cost (as previously posted) for a minimal “Lone Wolf” trip would be $1,243.19, generating a savings of $4,441.16. To match that deal, you would have to negotiate a 530i, 5-Speed, PP, SP, PA, Xenon down to about $1,000 BELOW the dealerships’ invoice cost, which, in my opinion, is not very likely.

    Do I think that ED is a better deal if you are already planning a trip to Europe? Without question, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody here has contested that point.

    Do I think that ED is a better deal if an individual does a 2-day “Quickie”? Absolutely.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Yes, you can lease a car obtained via ED, in fact, see my last post, I am doing it.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • pap5pap5 Posts: 144
    You are not confined to BMW FS to finance an ED deal. I got financing thru my credit union, same terms as any other deal. Needing payment in hand 30 days before delivery was not a problem.
  • pap5pap5 Posts: 144
    You say that you don't care about break-in because you flip your Bimmers quickly. What does that do for the poor sap who becomes the second or third owner? BMW engines may be built to robust standards, but does anyone really know the effect of redline gear changes on a green engine 75,000-150,000 miles down the line? Buyer beware, certainly, but how is a buyer going to tell without tearing down the engine and inspecting key components for abnormal wear? What buyer would do it? What seller would allow it?
  • vishnu11vishnu11 Posts: 59
    Riez, good point re: comparison, so here's some guidance (David Zuba I guess you wanted the answers too):

    (a) I did do the eval between non-ED and ED and ED won.

    My first question was exactly the same - is it worth it economically to do ED? From the point of view of the price of the car, ED won handsomely. I negotiated with the dealer first a flat $1200 profit over invoice (at the time I was undecided re ED/non-ED). Therefore, if the cost of the car was $35K ED invoice, I agreed to pay $36200 and if it cost $40K non-ED invoice, I agreed to pay $41200. As you probably already know, ED invoice is significantly less than non-ED invoice. In addition to that, ED implied that I did not have to pay for MACO fees which dealers will pass on if the car will be delivered non-ED. In the Boston area, that's around $200+. Finally, its easier for a reasonable dealer to negotiate a tighter profit margin because ED does not feature into the dealership's car allotment.

    My next question was: is the savings worth the extra hassle and paperwork, if any? I kept travel arrangements out of this because travel is something I can control. When I investigated it, ED paperwork is not significantly different than regular non-ED delivery. Perhaps the only difference is that you have to sign a piece of paper committing to ED delivery when the production number is available. I also was keen on getting the factory tour, so I pestered the dealer and BMWNA for this until I was satisfied I was on the list (note that this is an optional step). I did get an International Driver's License, but this is a 10 min thing at a AAA office. You need a passport obviously, and if you don't have this, its a bit of a hassle getting it done in time for the trip.

    My final question was: Is financing going to be a [non-permissible content removed]? I did investigate this, and it turns out that I will be out of about $100 because I have to finance with BMWFS rather than with my favorite bank. The reason is that the favorite bank requires the title and insurance (which requires a title), and the title cannot be had until the car is Stateside and has a Certificate of Origin. BMWFS overlooks this because of obvious reasons. As soon as the title and/or car is Stateside, I am going to refinance with my favorite bank at no additional cost of pre-payment to BMWFS. BMWFS's rate was not bad - 6.99% as opposed to the industry standard around 5.5%+, so there's not much difference (I did put down a cash downpayment). I would have blown the extra $100 in a dinner or a speeding ticket anyway.

    Corollary question was: should I should lease or finance? Since the lease is a definite 3 years and I would not have the car for over 2 months, I would not be driving it for the full period. With financing, this meant that I am merely accelerating my car payments but not been denied driving privileges in the long term. Plus I have heard too many horror stories about leasing and I did not want to get ulcers watching the odometer all the time. So financing it was. Yup, this means that as a buyer, I may be in for a significant crash when the new E60 comes out, but bimmers are great cars anyway and this did not mean much of a downside to me. Hopefully, Bangle will keep his ideas alive and my value afloat..:-) As Shipo pointed out, however, you can either lease or finance ED.

    After all of this, my other goal was to make sure that the savings actually materialized after the Munich vacation. So I did not stay at the Kempinski or the Bayerischer Hof but stayed at a Colony Inn right opposite the Niederlassung dealer, took the sardine-class in Lufthansa for $320 rt and utilized the excellent Munich subway system. All off-season of course. A couple of hours on the Internet, and I had everything lined up. Munich has some incredible international food, btw.

    (b) My opinion about trading a vehicle is the same broken record that Edmund's preaches: Never discuss a trade until the deal on your new car is done. Both deals should be financially separate. I should not be one to preach, however, since I have got shafted before. Maybe next time I'll be sharper.

    Hope this helps!

    Fair 'nuff?
  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    some dealers are selling some 2001 model cars, stated they are factory executive cars, what are they exactly? are they good? most of them are with around 10k miles and they are not CPOed, why? does it mean they might have been abused and disqualified?
  • theomdtheomd Posts: 11
    Have been shopping in MA for a 530ia,CW,PP. Found best deal on 3yr/15k; 0 down to be $660 with walkout total upfronts $1500. Note monthly lease payment includes MA 5% sales tax. (Found wide variety of offers $558-707; upfrnts $1500-2200). Any feed back on the best deal noted above will be signing this weekend. Thanks
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Boxster,

    I don't think I have ever heard of a CPOed executive car with under 10,000 miles. FWIW, I live right by BMWNA, and I rarely see any of the employee cars being "Abused", and the ones that are, are things like M3s and such. Also, if it was an "Executive Car", technically, it is not Pre-Owned.

    Theomd,

    I ran your numbers and they seem pretty good, I would go for that deal.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • sjmurray2sjmurray2 Posts: 65
    My Father was a partner in a small New England Volvo dealership back in the 70s. When I was in College, my Father use to send me with a few other guys to the Volvo Distributor in Rockleigh, NJ to buy these "Executive" cars with approx. 10,000 miles on the clock. These were beautifully kept vehicles and we bought them very cheap compared to the retail sticker price. E.g., a $17,000 retail sticker may have been bought for $10,000-$12,000 if my memory serves me correctly. Bottom line: Good deal and we the dealership made some good profit on these cars. This seemed to go on for a few years and I'm not sure why there were so many cars available or why my Father (he passed away last year) seemed to be the recipient of this good deal since we were 210 miles away from the Headquarters in NJ? Hope this helps.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    boxster... I'm assuming you are talking about buying one of these from a BMW dealer. Since it costs the dealer to CPO the car, it doesn't surprise me that they would try to sell them non-CPO. If you ask the dealer about it, would bet he'll say something like: "The car is under the remainder of the original 4yr/50k bumper-to-bumper warranty and the "free maintenance. Why would you want it CPO?" And since it is so low miles and has so much warranty remaining, he'll be asking top notch price. He won't believe CPO'g the car will allow him to raise the price much; he'll be thinking he can get that price or very close without CPO'g anyway. So he won't see any value to him of CPO'g.

    That is exactly what the BMW dealer told us when my wife initially tried to buy her used '00 323iA. It was a dealer's service loaner (had never been titled to another party) and had about 18,000 miles on it. When I told the dealer it was either CPO or no deal, he agreed to CPO it. We wrote the deal up with CPO clearly specified.

    Thought I read somewhere that BMW dealers could CPO cars that had at least 6,000 miles on odometer.
  • rtboonrtboon Posts: 21
    Can anyone tell me how to have the daytime running lights turned off in a 97 528i ? I think the key is the answer but who do you see to have this done and what is the cost?

    Thanks
    Cape Cod
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    shipo... The timing of your respective purchases is fascinating. If I'm understanding your stories...

    1. You bought the then all brand new E46 3 Series platform upon introduction. Didn't it come out in CY 1998 as a MY 1999? And you were buying the hotter 328i? This is the time dealers will be attempting to get the most money for the car, as they are dealing with the type buyers who have to have the latest and greatest and will pay the most. Compare MSRP with same options on your then new '99 328i to a new '02 330i (adjusting for engine difference and changes in standard equipment), and then take into account inflation.

    2. And now, near the end of its platform life, you are buying an E39 5 Series, at a time when this platform is in its 7th model year and facing a replacement soon? People are now focusing more on the next generation 5 Series than the current generation.

    On an inflation adjusted basis and taking into account all the additional standard equipment acquired by both platforms thru their lives, the '02 330i and '02 530i cost less today than they did upon introduction. (And they cost BMW a lot less to build per unit today, as they amortize plant & equipment and the production learning curve allows them to produce them quicker and easier, requiring fewer man-hours to make, etc.).

    Leasing complicates your situation. There has likely been a significant change in projected residuals. Not to mention a huge difference in interest rates between CY 1998 and CY 2001/2. Rates have fallen dramatically in just the past year.

    So I end up having a hard time drawing any firm conclusions from your stories. I might if you had tried to both seriously negotiate ED and non-ED in BOTH CY 1998 and CY 2002.
  • zubazuba Posts: 58
    When the dealer agreed to CPO the car for you - did he add on another $1500 or so?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    zuba... Odd that you ask. Short answer is NO. But dealer would've if he could've.

    We did the deal on a Saturday in the afternoon (12/1/01). Almost an impulse purchase. We were on vacation in Des Moines seeing my parents when I came back from Appleton WI the day before with my CPO 540i6. Wife became insanely jealous when she rode in it. We were driving by the DSM BMW dealer, European Motorcars, and she said she had to see if they had a car she liked! We walked the lot with the salesman but she didn't see anything she liked. As we were getting ready to leave we were walking thru the Service Area. She saw a silver 323iA and looked at it. Salesman commented it was a Service Loaner. But it was the right color and had all the exact options she wanted (PP, sunroof, CD, leather, metallic paint, automatic, heated seats). So he said he'd ask the dealership about selling her the loaner.

    When we worked the deal out with the salesperson we discussed CPO. Told him I was only buying CPO. I probably mentioned it 3 times. He agreed. We got a price (for car and trade-in) and he wrote it up. When we were passed to the finance person (the real deal person) I noticed no mention of CPO. He then acted surprised about going CPO. Told him we had discussed it in advance and the salesperson had agreed. Told him the deal stayed as was, and he write it up CPO, or we'd walk. Told him I had no problem waiting and betting that Markel BMW in Omaha would have something she wanted. So he wrote it up. We got the price we negotiated.
  • 530bmw530bmw Posts: 130
    I am somewhat leery of "exec cars" advertised by all dealers. I have seen ads all the times promoting these cars by many dealers not just in my area but in every US cities. If I total all the cars together there are hundreds and hundreds of of them and I wonder how many executives are working for BMWNA. Because I think the number of cars claimed will exceed the number of executives. Is it possible a dealer include leased cars that turn in prematurely and make them more attractive as "exec cars"? I am not suggesting that BMWNA is doing this, rather, it is an unscrupulous dealer who is trying to do this on his own to move cars on the lot. I may be totally off on this but based on my take on this, it is possible. If my theory is wrong, may be someone on this board can explain to me how BMWNA control this from happenning.

    On to a different subject, according to Consumer Report (April issue), the best overall lux sedan car is the 530. It is so good that the chart ran out of room for "excellent" on the right side. Check it out for yourself.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    If you go ED, who do you actually buy the car from? BMW AG? BMW USA? The dealer?

    Got me wondering about differences in deals when there is a lease subsidy. If BMW USA is subsidizing leases (either artificially low money factor or artificially high residual), can you get that subsidized lease deal thru ED? Or is that only from dealer stock?

    Or differences if BMW FS is offering cut-rate purchase financing (e.g., 3.9 percent subsidized financing)? Can you get this rate going ED or do you get a higher rate?

    Someone (shipo?) mentioned buying his ED thru BMW FS but then planning to refinance thru his local bank or credit union. Wouldn't the refinance deal be based on a used car? Interest rates are normally higher for used cars rather than new cars? Don't see how the bank or credit union could finance as a new car, since it would already have been titled thru the original lender. It would then be-retitled. And the loan terms might be different. Some used car loaners might only go 48 months or 60 tops while new car financing is almost always available out to 60 months and sometimes 72 or 84.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    While I cannot speak to the financing of an ED vehicle by third party sources, I do know that the lease deals that BMWFS offers for domestic purchases is the exact same deal that is offered for the ED folks. The cool thing about leasing an ED car is that the residual is calculated upon the MSRP of the US car NOT the ED MSRP, so, ED works out sort of like a CAP cost reduction.

    Said another way, if I had paid MSRP ($47,395) for my 530i, the residual would have been $28,437. If I had done a $1,500 over US invoice deal ($44,850), the residual would still have been $28,437. In my case, I did a $1,500 over ED invoice deal ($42,180), and yes, my residual was still $28,437.

    Reiz,

    The differences between my two BMW leases are interesting, my 1999 328i had a calculated residual of 63% after 39 months, while my 530i has a calculated residual of only 60% after 36 months, definately not as good of a deal. That said, the interest percentage on the 328i was around 6.6% while the interest on the 530i is more like 5.0%, which works more in my favor.

    In the end, the two differences come close to cancelling each other out (gut guess, I haven't run the numbers yet).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
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