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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 51&press_section_id=398&make_id=92
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 53&press_section_id=398&make_id=94
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 54&press_section_id=398&make_id=92
Mark
The two cars are rather hard to compare though, they're not really aimed at the same market. the TL is a luxury sport sedan, the Montego, while it might be peppy and handle reasonably well, the Ford Five Hundred certainly felt so to me, is MUCH larger and less sporting in character. It is however a more versatile transporter of people and cargo. I don't really think that too many Montego shoppers would have seriously considered the TL, more likely they'd be cross shopping with Avalons, V6 Chrysler 300s, Park Avenues, Subaru Legacys, base model Volvo S80s, and maybe even some minivans. I'm also interested in what options you found missing. Navigation? Moon roof? Manual transmisson?
See this article:
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18901
The pricing on these cars is thousands less then the competition.
the lowest priced 500 with awd is about 5k less than the lowest priced chrysler 300 with awd.
the only less expensive car in this catagory is the chevy impalla which is an old design that is hardly competitive.
why don't you just go buy a chrysler 300 if thats what you want.
Mark
But what are the differences in equipment levels?
~alpha
What these cars do offer is impressive packaging, the kind of rear seat space usually fond oly in large luxury cars, cavernous luggage capacity, flexible seating, and excellent visiblity, unlike the Chrysler 300/Dodge Magnum. They are eminently practical cars, and they handle very well, with terrific braking and suspension. People who yearn for a HEMI or an exotic luxury sports sedan with all the latest gadgets may not be impressed, but if you want something comfortable to move people and stuff, that's also a pleasure to drive these cars seem hard to beat.
Ford couldn't afford to wait on these cars, and it really doesn't need to wait for the Duratec 35 to be ready in 18 months the car is quite powerful enough. It is very well appointed even if it's not a true luxury car. It lacks some high end options, notably Navigation, but this is a very expensive option on most cars that have it, it is one of the biggest causes of complaints on cars equipped with, and frankly it's not as useful in most of North America as it is in some other places where street naming and numbering conventions can be a little odd.
Take other vehicles for example...Altima starts around $17K, but surely... we all want the loaded $29-30K model. Camry, same issue...starts low, ends up a bit over $30K fully loaded, Avalon..a bit more. Accord can hit $28-29K as well. 300M can hit $36K loaded.
Conclusion: If you think $28K-30K is too much, get the lesser trims starting around $22-24K with less toys, and the same with occur with the competition like Impala, Avalon, etc.
The same will be true with a car. Until I get drive and play with the new 500, I really will not know if I like or dislike it.
I thought I would really like the XG350. Looks great on paper. When I drove the car, my knees hit the steering wheel. Scratch that off the list.
The biggest challenge for me will be going from a RWD to FWD.
There are so many intangibles to a car. Everything looks good in a glossy print. But what will you buy.
So in the long run, the Mercury shopper will probably spend a bit more because they haggle less. Whereas the Ford shopper will probably have a canniption, and if they still can't get their way, they'll go to Mercury.
Hence, the cycle.
And I do know of some shoppers that have gone to a Ford dealership, NOT get the vehicle they wanted for haggling too much. Goes to Mercury, spends the same exact thing they were fight for at the Ford dealership, yet because it has a few toys, they allow it to slide.
Go figure...
The European market is a far different place and the Focus and other cars its size fit in a niche that is more comparable to the one occupied by midsize cars like the Camry, Taurus, Accord, etc. here. Cars are more of a discretionary expense in Europe rather than an absolute necessity for functioning in the economy as they are for most Americans. Ford certainly has its problems, but it seems that they are largely going in the right direction now, they lost alot of their momentum in the 90s while Jac Nasser was busy buying and selling companies and divisions while ignoring the core business, it's going to take several years to see the fruits of new product development.
Other countries have different circumstances and buying habits, than that of the U.S.
The Focus in Europe can easily top $28K (in exchange rates, approx), and is one of the better sellers overall. Most reliable as well from last years dependability study, and lowest cost to own award, as well...
Unfortunately in the U.S., we get simpler versions, with simpler trims. American consumer's have a hard time paying too much money for a vehicle deamed "economy car". So many factors need to be placed in the equation and find a neutral balance.
And now there's the new Focus, built upon the C1 platform. And you hear everyone whining over that...I've mentioned it in another forum before (can't remember which one)...between you and me, the only difference between C170 platform (current one) and C1 (new one), is just a few cross beams, and reinforced structural members... Will you feel it in off the pants driving? Very doubtful. If anything I could throw in some stiffer struts and tires, and you could even mimick it if need be.
I myself love the Australian Falcon. But that presents another issue as well. Consumer's that will pay THAT amount of money, are expecting to have commodious interiors. Plus, the vehicle would have a hard time passing federal emmissions regulations, and "crush zones" would have to be integrated into the structure. Again, $$$$. And as seen by the Monaro, eh Pontiac GTO, sales are dismal.
Mondeo ? We had it here, under Contour. Newer Euro version addressed the U.S. shortcomings. But the Focus' interior is quite large, and might impede on Mondeo' sales... So again, other scales of economy.
If you learn of the 500's, potential, and the engineering behind it, you would have greater appreciation over the vehicle. Granted, most of us would wanted V8, and a few other toys but in reality, it might be things many other's wouldn't bother paying for. And if you offer too many toys, then the complaints will be about higher pricing, or something else that might break, etc.etc.
Compared to the competition, this vehicle will be a slam dunk. Not 300K+ sales as the Taurus has, but slam dunk in the sense of bringing quality, precision, fine craftmanship and engineering into the mainstream market.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0409/01/f01-260303.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/ford/fivehundred/100396387/roadte- starticle.html?articleId=102924&tid=edmunds.h..wkedmunds.firs- tdrive.1.*
If this is indicative of the kinds of reviews the Five Hundred and Montego are going to get, I dont feel its going to be enough for Ford. Ford desperately needs some critical acclaim, and judging from the edmunds.com piece, its not happeneing.
~alpha
My favorite line which I knew would come up...
" But buyers who spend upward of $25,000 will expect to connect to their family sedan on an emotional level: A VW Passat, for example, offers both a luxurious interior and an engaging driving experience. While people may purchase one out of necessity, a Passat ultimately becomes a treasured member of the family. "
Uh huh, the Passat is a treasured member of the family alright. Goes to the hospital (service center) as often as Grandma goes to get dialysis done.
I find it ironic how Edmunds and a few other rags recommend the Passat on sheer driving experience, yet they never mention how unreliable they really are, and wish they would own one for years to feel the "benefits" of their beloved treasure, heh...
Hence, this is just one of many reviews that have started popping up. And so far it's been quite positive overall.
Especially when the size of a Passat's interior is more comparable to that of a Focus, whereas the Five Hundred is nearly as roomy as an Audi A8L.
Oh and if you want to submit a warrenty claim on a VW, you better have receipts from all your oil changes.
Also someone mentioned they were looking for an air filtration system? There is definately an air-filtration system, its just not "hepa" certified.
Mark
Seems to me that when Ford produces a strong model, its recognized, and when they dont, thats recognized too. Just more often then not, Fords entries are good, but not that good.
But if you have accounts of clear bias from the mags, please do tell.
~alpha
The Five Hundred and Freestyle both look good in pictures and better in reality. My wife reported that the back seat of the Five Hundred is bigger and better than the harder seats and more cramped conditions in the second row of the Freestyle. The interior of the Five Hundred is very nice, but the Freestyle interior looks somewhat "trucky." The AWD Freestyle felt better than the FWD Five Hundred. The Five Hundred seemed quiet, and more so than the Freestyle, but I will need to drive one on the lousy freeways here (I-5 & I-405) to really evaluate the car.
The new Mustang is very nice, and again better than in the photos. I really liked the interior. Even the V6 feels good. Most of the people driving the 4.6 Mustangs with manual transmissions got a nice bark out of the rear tires on the 1 to 2 shift, but soon had to slow down for a curve.
The web site http://www.familycar.com has a nice review with excellent photos of the Five Hundred.
Hey, it's just how it seems to me, statistically, I could be all wet. Who knows? I just find it amazing, for example, how the Expedition gets panned, and the old tech, out of date, antiquated Chevy Tahoe is everybody's "standard" of full sized SUVs. Just how it seems to me......
I also wish that the new 3-valve 4.6 was in front driving the rear (or all) wheels, but I really don't need a sedan with 6 second or better 0-60 performance and the associated insurance bills.
I really could not tell from the limited drive time, but others have reported mid-seven zero to sixty times. It seems likely that a loaded Five Hundred / Montego with AWD will reach sixty in eight seconds or so, and that is good enough. I could tell that it certainly is not a nine or ten second zero to sixty vehicle.
Will Ford's reported 4th quarter production cutback impact the Five hundred's availability?
I think the Ford products are the only ones in the group to offer side air bags plus side curtain air bags which protect in rollovers, not just side impacts. The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum do not even offer side air bags, just head curtain air bags, explaining their crash test ratings.
Another Ford that has done very well because it is a strong contender is the Escape. Upon introduction in 2001, it won a C/D comparison test of 10 small utes, and just this month (the October issue) of CR shows the Escape finishing near the top of its class 5th of 16 tested models.
So again, I feel that when Ford produces a good vehicle, its recognized....
IMO, the Five Hundred is not competiting with 4 cylinder Camry and Accords. Even so, those models hit 60 in the high 8s or low 9s (though the new Camry 5 speed auto 4 cylinder hasnt been tested yet), while returning EPA ratings of 24/34 with the automatic... which the Five Hundred isnt going to touch.
~alpha
Using cold air nitrogen inflaters with a tilt sensor, the side curtain can deploy in a roll over event BEFORE IMPACT!!!. the bags will remain inflated for up to 6secs to allow for multiple roll overs.
Also, the people who buy these cars aren't going to care about 0 to 60 times. They will be interested in "does it feel peppy," "Does my family fit", "will my neighbors/co-workers laugh at it, or be impressed," "Will it be reliable," "Can I afford the payments".
What annoys me about auto journalists is when the evaluate a vehicle in a way that doesn't reflect their use. If you really want to evaluate a family car, then i think you have to put a family into it and take it on a family outing, not just take it to the track and attach a fifth wheel and see if you can leave stripes.
I have yet to see an article about the 2004 F-150 that actually evaluates it as a truck used to do work, tow, and haul things. So when i read an article in an auto mag about anything other than a sports car, I tend to take it with a grain of salt.
Mark
Well since about 98% of what I see on the lots are crew cab, leather wrapped, dvd equipped driveway queens...I'm not suprised the popular mags are not evaluating their work capabilities.
I currently have a ford taurus that has a auto tranny give out at 80K. I love fords, but this is my 4th ford that has had auto tranny issues. Apparently, I'm not the only one (as my ford dealership keeps plenty of auto trannys in stock because of this).
I am weary to put this car on my list because of the mechanical issues ford suffers from.
I know that this ford has lots of Volvo in it, but can someone say what parts are ford and what is volvo? I know the duratec is ford...what about the tranny? Suspension?
The interior is not an issue, as you can see what ford vehicles they took the parts from.
By the way, speaking of interior, who else is not impressed by the fact that ford pasted in a square radio unit into an otherwise curved front dash? You think they would have hid the generic ford radio shape when putting it in the 500. Looks out of place.
GregC
Which Ford models have you had tranny issues with?
The one for the 500 is from Aisin AW, which is 48% owned by Toyota. The CVT was a joint venture project with ZF, later spearheaded by Ford. I've had 9 Ford's all into the 80-110K mark, and no issue. Granted, they have never been FWD vehicles... And I'm not a gentle driver, and believe on redlining from the first street I drive off from, heh...
You shouldn't recognize that many Ford details inside the cabin. The radio unit is the new unit being used in the F-150 which is very simply to use, not at all the roundy units found on the Taurus'. The window switches are not at all what you would find on typical Fords, more european than Ford. Climate control system different from Ford's typical units if it's the auto system. The manual variety is really the only item that might remind you of typical Ford units.
Shiftgate lettering, instrumentation, etc. are different from most Ford units you might be used to. Yes the Duratec is Ford, as many other components within the vehicle. Waterpumps, starters, etc. might differ from Taurus' unit, only because they are much beefier or higher quality. But all parts will be easily available in the future, if need be.
At first, it was "the Expedition has quirky steering". Ok, Ford tightened up the steering, (which I didn't like), then it was, "The Tahoe rides smoother". And, that's makes it a more competent SUV? Then, it was, "The Expedition feels sluggish".
I had a Navigator, my business partner had the same year Tahoe. We compared them all the time. The Navigator, trim levels aside, was more trucky, but clearly better engineered in our opinions. It just seemed the mags never gave Ford a break. That's all I was saying, and it was largely based on this experience.
ZF Lemforder in a continued relationship with Ford supplies the front and rear axle chassis systems on the Five Hundred/Montego and the Freestyle.
ZF maintains a 100,000 square-foot facility at the Ford Chicago Mfg. Campus half a mile east of the Chicago assembly plant.
Others in the campus are:
Lear Corp., makes the headliners;
Tower Automotive, stampings;
Visteon, instrument panels, bolsters, HVAC components and fuel tanks;
SY Systems Technologies, wiring;
Summit Polymers Inc., console (injected plastics);
Plastech, injected and blow molded plastics;
Brose, door components;
TDS Automotive, sequencing and automotive assembly;
Ford Parts Depot, which moved from its former location in Melrose Park,Ill.