Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

johnclineii

The CVT is NOT the main issue delaying the 3.5. The ENGINE itself is. It ain't available yet. And I am sure many would be more than happy to accept a 3.5 with a six speed.

 

Thing is, most people who look at larger engines end up buying the base. But the larger engine gets them into the showroom to start with. Think Chrysler 300C. The surprise there has been even Chrysler has been shocked at how many actually ARE springing for the larger engine.

 

None of us knows what the price or availability of oil will be two years from now. If gasoline is unbelievably expensive, the CVT and 3.0 may continue to be the largest seller by far...you may even see the CVT show up in more than the base on the FWD side. If oil remains relatively cheap (ask our Canadians what they are paying for gasoline, then ask a Brit the same thing about petrol), the larger engine may sell well indeed.

 

All that being said, the power in my car is acceptable (AWD and CVT). Not thrilling, but acceptable. I would prefer the 3.5, and MAY buy one when they come out.

 

Then again, knowing me, I may have a Fusion by then. Or an HHR. HA HA HA HA! (yeah, right. I really want to drive a Cobalt with that body on it...yep....just a silly thought that won't last two minutes after I drive one!)

mgp2

The main advantage I see of the 500/Montego over Taurus/Sable is safety and AWD. The taurus has never had good side impact protection (3 stars) wheras the competition (Accord/Camry) which was originally behind when it came to safety, has since surpassed Taurus in that department too.

 

After having drove both the Montego 6-speed and the AWD CVT and soon after borrowed someone's 2004 Sable for a day (same 200 HP engine), I was surprised that the Sable engine was considerably quieter even under hard acceleration. I do not understand why, unless the Sable has better sound insulation from the engine compartment. Even though the noise difference is only experienced during acceleration, I found it annoying, especially considering the less expensive Sable sounded as good in my opinion as an Accord, whereas the Montegeo should have been quieter, considering the extra cost and the fact that it is touted as a more premium automobile (which it is in everything expect engine noise)

mschmal

One thing hurting the CVT is the cost of the tranny. The "chain" comes from LUK in Europe and the rising euro is making this transmission more expensive than it was suppose to be. This is why the FWD SE is getting the 6 speed AISEN unit.

 

Personally I would like to see a sleeper version of the 500 ala' the SHO Taurus. Something to give the showroom some draw.

 

This is a great time in history for auto enthusiasts. With the Auto Industry so fragmented and showing signs of becoming more so and the costs of building lots of unique models coming down compared to the past by using modern flexible factories and flexible chassis, we have more models then ever to choose from or at least since before the depression.

 

I just had a customer in the showroom yesterday who totally gushed over the 500. But then he was in the target demographic, an empty nester in late fifties. Unfortunately he was there with his son and it was his son who needed a car.

 

The 500 is a good product overall and so far so good. Imagine if this car got launched with the boondoggle of the Focus or the Tribscape?

 

I think we all have a good future to look forward too.

 

Mark

ehaase

I hope that the Duratec35 replaces the Vulcan, Duratec 30, 3.8L and 4.2L OHV, and German 4.0L SOHC in all applications. Except for Honda, most of the competition (I think) is moving away from 3 liters.

ANT14

The Duratec35 will replace the Essex V6's (3.8L 4.2L). The Vulcan will die when the current Ranger is replaced. The Duratec30 will take that spot, and other spots where the 2.3L peaks at, and the Duratec35 starts at (power wise).

 

The Duratec35 can ALSO grow, as is with minimal modifications. Whereas the Duratec30 was somewhat limited since it was spawned from the Duratec25, and reached it's pinnacle.

samnoe

Somebody questioned above but you didn't give an adequate answer: Will the new 3.5L Duratec be quieter than the current noisy 3.0L? and I mean A LOT quieter? because I think it's (and so all Ford engines) one of the most noisy engines found today, even compared to old tech pushrods from GM.

 

Especially the imports engines are extremely quiet - not just inside the car (protected with quiet steel or other gimmicks) but the engine itself is very quiet and refined, which adds a quality feel to the vehicle.

nvbanker

I can name a few Ford engines that are stone quiet, and I will. The 3.9L Lincoln LS/Thunderbird V-8 is "quiet as a Rolls Royce" to re-coin a phrase from 1966. You can't tell they're running at idle. The old Cologne 4.0L V-6 is also amazingly quiet at warm idle and very well balanced for a 60 degree engine. The 4.6L modular V-8 is quiet enough for the Town Car and the geezers who drive them with the radio off all day or on AM, and you can't hear them idle, or feel them either. The Essex engines are cornbinders, I'll grant you that, but they're the oldest in the stable and gone soon anyway. Nothing is noisier than a Chevy Cavalier though, IMO, which sounds like a Cement Mixer at a crosswalk. I'm afraid to walk in front of one, never know if I'm going to lose a leg in the teeth or something.....

ANT14

Yes the 3.5L will be very quiet, at least... all the ingredients are in there to make it quiet. Place the vehicle in a Mustang, and obviously it'll be tailored to make a bit of noise.

 

The VCT versions of the Duratec30 are quieter than the non VCT versions. (X-type, S-type, LS V6, Mazda6).

 

Ford's 3.9L/4.2L/4.4L (LS, Jag, LR) are one of the quietest Ford has. I've been able to stand a nickel on it's side on top of the engine, without it falling off of how smooth they are.

 

Ford's Essex 3.8/9 and 4.2L... Can qualify for farm machinery noise level.

 

Some GM engines might be a bit quieter, but I can point a few variants that have major fan noise eminating from under the hood. (specially the one's coupled with the 4.3L V6)

 

Saturns 3.0L, has a clickity whisp, caused by air rushing between 2 accessories mounted onto the engine.

 

Saturns 1.9L, far from being quiet.

 

GM's Ecotec's (as were the Quad-Cams) far from being quiet.

 

GM's Vortec, class action suit being organized for the piston-slap issue. Tick Tick Tick Tick.

 

GM's 3.8L is one of the quieter one's, then again the engine is older than myself, so you figure after so many years, they narrowed the NVH down.

 

Many of Toyota's 2.2L, clatters after a few years of usage, as Accord 2.2L.

 

Honda's Vtec derived 1.6L also have a running clatter when warmed up.

 

Nissans 3.5L a very quiet overall, although the new 4.0L seems to be noiser.

 

VW (like they don't have enough issues) the 1.8L clatters after a few years.

 

Chrysler's 3.8L, I cursed after I closed the hood. The 2.4L I think cursed back at me.

 

These are just some that popped into my head at 3am.

nvbanker

One of us should get some sleep.....instead, we're evaluating engine NVH in the still of the night... How ironic.

 

I rented an 05 Town Car last week in Jacksonville and drove it between there, Gainesville and Tallahasse. Since it was an 05, I lifted the hood to see "what's new for 05" under there. Was wondering....I know it doesn't matter really, since no self-respecting Town Car owner even knows the where the engine is located, but would it kill you to put Lincoln on the engine somewhere under there, instead of just, V-8? My Navigator has it. Or, is that because my Navigator is a 4V unique to Lincoln, and the Town Car has the Crown Vic engine shared with Ford, and they can't really call it a Lincoln specific engine without getting sued like the General did in 1977 over the Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles thing (that was SOOOOo stupid, if you ask me... I mean, what's the difference???) Just wondering.

ANT14

Actually that's one of the cost cutting methods. Not to overly dress up the engine bay in plastic panels/coverings. Except for the luxury brands that is.

nvbanker

"Except for the luxury brands that is."

 

You didn't let something slip there, did ya? I was talking about Lincoln.....

ANT14

Depends if it shares engines with a Ford variant. Notice the LS is nicely decorated, as oppose to a Town Car.

nvbanker

I guess.... Like I said, No self-respecting Town Car owner has ever lifted the hood anyway, or knows where the engine is in the damn thing anyway.

johnclineii

Town Car owners do not refer to "engines."

 

They refer to the motors in their motor cars.

 

nvbanker

My friend who has owned 3 of them says, "There's an engine in there somewhere, right?" That's how I know...

pegasus17

Interesting info from LUK on CVT:

 

http://www.luk.de/content/en/products/productinformation/gearing-- systems/cvt/luk_kurbelcvt_sv/LuK_KurbelCVT_lv.jsp

 

For ANT14: Pls confirm that the Ford 500 CVT was developed by Luk with Ford and is produced here in Ohio...

samnoe

Well, I will also disagree somewhat. While you are correct for most, the Town Car I rented was definitely noisy when revved. And I don't talk about "flooring" just regular passing or merging into the thruway.

 

You and ANT are correct on the smaller chevy's which I never drove before. I'm speaking about many Buicks, Pontiacs, and Chevy's I've rented many times. I compared it to the other cars I rented as well, Crown Vic, Town Car, and (of course) Taurus.

 

While talking about that, I must agree that the Taurus drove much better than Buick Century, but then again, the noisy engine drove me crazy...

 

Back to the subject, so many people complained here that the 500 engine sounds noisy, so I really hope that the new "state-of-the-art" 3.5L Duratec which Ford will soon release to compete with other hi-tech engine, will be quiet, even without isolating the engine. The Freestar is also well isolated, but try opening a window while revving the Essex, or somebody stand outside, and you feel like standing next to a 747... OK, at least a tractor-trailer...

ANT14

Coppamc,

 

I believe there's more detailed information over the CVT posted in earlier posts. It has been, and will be a very busy week for me because of NAIAS, so my brain is working on overtime here.

 

Very good link....

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18348

 

And

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=17407

 

Let me know if this answers your question. About Luk ? Hmmm, I'll need to research if maybe they helped, or supplied a specific part.

 

Ford also is also interested in Torotrak (Torotrak.com), it's a IVT. I prefer the IVT design over CVT since it has less limitations, such as weight limitations.

contracoffin

Is anyone else out there tall and as outraged as I by all the hype about interior space in this vehicle has ONLY 37.5 inches of head room?? Most of these designers seem to be under the impression that looking straight ahead at the visor will add untold joy to our driving experience. Do they think people are getting shorter? (in fact statistics show the opposite) Do they think there is a glass shortage and they can't spare a few more additional inches of glass on the top side of the windshield. UNREAL!!! Why this flagrant disregard for the customer?

nedc2

What????

 

Try 39.4" front headroom and 38.7"" rear, which is class leading rear headromm by the way.

pegasus17

I looked at a few 500's last night and noticed that Germany was the source for the CVT transmission per the vehicle contents label on the side of the car opposite the MSRP sticker. Not sure how that jives with the Batavia, OH plant? Also, what is the deal with the wipers? No metal frames; all one piece; seems chintzy...

jming

I'll add that I am really disappointed in the legroom available in the Montego. I am 6'5" and so am always interested in larger cars. I too had heard all the hype about the "gigantic" interior and on a recent dealer visit I sat in the Montego. Despite rolling the seat ALL the way back, the legroom was totally inadequate - similar to the Toyota Corolla which is our other car. I drive a 2003 Mountaineer and can be much more comfortable even without the seat all the way back. I think if FoMoCo had allowed about 2 more inches of seat travel, it would be fine. I would be very worried about leg / knee injuries if I had a collision driving a Montego. No sale.

tincup47

They use similar wipers on the Land Rover LR3. This is new technology that has the additional benefit of not requiring changing to winter wiper blades in areas that get snow.

ANT14

Coppamc,

 

While it's assembled in Batavia, the majority of the contents are from Germany. Originally the first CVT producing plant for Ford was over in europe and has been in place in a number of vehicles to date.

rfdixon

I've owned a Five Hundred SEL since November 12th and your decision to wait for more power is a good one.

RFDx

guss

I agree, I am 6'6 and thought this would be the perfect vehicle for me with the large cabin and Suv type seating. Wrong , the legroom was the killer . Headroom seamed pretty good though.

   

 Funny thing was , I then sat in the '05 Focus while I was there. I think it had more head and legroom. Go figure.

felixc1976

Does anybody know what kind of updates will be available for 2006 500/Montego?

frasierdog

Since we are on the topic of engines ...

 

Would you please compare the upcoming Ford 3.5 VVT with the new Chevy 3.5 & 3.9 VVT engines.

 

Any differences in technology?

ANT14

You mean the 3.5L (LX9) found in the Malibu, Impala, Minivan trio, G6, etc ? Along with it's older brother 3.9L, that used to be 3.8L last year?

 

Of the 3.5L I-5 Vortec (L52) that's found in the Colorado ?

frasierdog

Forget the 3.5 it will not be VVT.

 

The NEW 3.9L to be used in the 2006 Impala and 2006 Monte will have VVT.

 

Do you know how the 3.9L will compare to the Ford 3.5L with VVT in terms of technology?