Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

bigt

Ugh, maybe not. Just saw the LS Hybrid video. Eight cylinder 430 horses including a button to self park the car. Yikes, I can't imagine how much they are going to charge for that!

cowbell

I think a better comparison would the Lexus ES350. The ES starts at 33,170 while the LS starts at over 50,000.

ab348

The problem with this car in dark colors is that there is no bright trim around the side windows, just a strip at the beltline. The lack of trim makes it look bad in dark colors, like a Fusion in profile, and hence, cheap. For the couple of bucks it would take to frame the side windows in stainless, I can't understand why Ford doesn't do it. If I were to buy one, I'd be forced to get a light color to avoid the cheap look.

[Deleted User]

To each his or her own. Some like it dark, some like it light...

The reason it looks like a Fusion in profile is that the cars have the exact same profile.

Now, you are right, Lincoln could have disguised this cheap move better with more trim. The beltline trim is to give the illusion that it doesn't use the same door cutouts as the Fusion. They could have also given it a more Lincolnesque touch by running a strip of chrome at the top of the fenders front to back. They didn't. Oh well.

The bean counters at Ford and Lincoln are in a penny wise pound foolish mode. Hope they get out of it before it is too late...

bigt

I saw several Zephyrs on the dealer lot in Orlando with the trim added between the doors. I also saw some with cloth roofs and custom rims. I guess individual dealers are customizing their cars.

Karen_S

Okay, I've decided to take the easy way and just ask. Is the MKZ an upgraded Zephyr or are we talking about two different animals here? Basically, should the MKZ be a group on its own? :confuse:

Thanks for your input and expertise.

akirby

It's an upgraded Zephyr.

They had to release the Zephyr a year earlier than planned just so the Lincoln dealers had something to sell after the demise of the LS.

The MKZ is really the production version that was always intended with the 3.5L engine, AWD, firmer suspension and a few other minor upgrades and cosmetic changes.

They should be left combined.

scootertrash

Host: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Same car, different name plate.

displacedtexan

I can imagine the cloth roof on a Grand Marquis, but I just can't see in on the MKZ. Ugh.

[Deleted User]

Double uge. Oh, and the MKZ and the Zephyr are the exact same car. They added some equipment for 2007. Not at all unusual. Giving it a new name was umusual.

[Deleted User]

Double ugh. Oh, and the MKZ and the Zephyr are the exact same car. They added some equipment for 2007. Not at all unusual. Giving it a new name was unusual.

rockylee

Is the new Surround Sound system in the MKZ a A+
DVD-Audio unit ???? Will it blow your ear drums out of your head ????

I'm curious since this same unit is suppose to make it to the MKS, which I'm giving serious consideration as my next vehicle purchase.

Thanks to all,

Rocky

rockylee

gregg, have you tested one out pal ?

I want some answers from all test drivers of the MKZ. Is it a nice car ? Does it feel alot more powerful than the Zephyr ???

Rocky

bigt

I saw the Mkz but did not test drive it yet. I cannot say it looks that much different. I am waiting on my colors to arrive and I want to take a peek and drive the MKx along with the Ford Edge. I must admit that I am starting to think about the Camry Hybrid also. These cheap gas prices are nothing but an election illusion. :sick:

Hey I just noticed on the Lincoln website that the MKx is now listed as 'coming in December 2006'

http://www.edmunds.com/spotlight/lincoln/reachhigher/reachhigher.html

You have to click on the MKx to see the date. I guess it brings more reality to 'its your life, your script, Your DREAM'! :P

scootertrash

I saw and sat in a Ford Edge. I was impressed.
It should do well. The impression I got was that it's a very nice 1999 Lexus RX 300.

They went into production on Monday of this week, they should start showing up soon.

And, if the low gas prices are indeed an election year stunt, it proves prices are manipulated and the evil-powers that control prices want the current bunch re-elected.
I'm voting for no incumbents.

pnewby

But how do you know the stunt is by the incumbents? The challengers also have big bucks and mucho influence, and I've seen some local adds claiming they were responsible for the good things, so vote for me to see more of this.

scootertrash

Think about it -- How would it benefit a challenger to have oil prices drop while the incumbent is still in office, before you cast your vote?

Low oil prices = happy voters
Happy voters = re-elected incumbents.

Back on topic, Let's all buy Lincoln Navigators, a dollar will take you 6 miles now!

bigt

What do you guys think?

-------------------------------------------------
We have a fully equipped AWD version, Black with Dark Charcoal, featuring the following options:

* 200A
* Power Moonroof
* Heated and Cooled Front Seats
* HID Headlamps
* Sirius Satellite Radio, with 6 months service!
*17" Chrome Wheels
* THX Audiophile Sound
* Navigation System
etc,etc...

This MK Z has an MSRP of 37735 as equipped. You can purchase it for "as low as" 34991, applying the applicable rebate(s). If you opt for Special Interest Financing, the price will increase by 1000.00, as you must relinquish the Customer Cash Rebate in order to take advantage of this APR.

akirby

That's $1500 over invoice plus any doc fees. It's a reasonable price for a vehicle that's in demand and not oversupplied. You might do better - just call a few other dealers and ask them how much over invoice they want for a loaded AWD model.

bigt

Thanks, will they actually show you the invoice? Should I use my buying service (USAA) do you think they can get a better deal on the vehicle and trade?

bigt

Here is another offer but it is over 1k more than the other, amazing how they can be different:

What I have found for instance is a fully loaded Black/Black with the following options:

power moonroof, heated/coolled seats, HID headlights, sirius radio, 17" chrome wheels, interior satin/aluminum package, and the THX II audiophile system.

This vehicle is got it all. It would be my personal choice as well.

The retail on the vehicle is $37735.00. The invoice on the vehicle is $35050.

If you agree, I would like to maintain a dealer total profit of $1000. so I would like to offer this vehicle at $36050, plus your applicable state taxes and tags and processing fee.

Currently there is a $500. rebate from the factory or a special APR program you can select from.

akirby

Sounds reasonable to me, but it's your money.

Some places will show you the invoice, some won't. But you don't need to see it unless you're buying on X plan. You can get the invoice pricing here on Edmunds or several other internet sites.

bigt

Actually running it up against the Edmunds calculator the price is right at Invoice after the rebate. This dealerships is going to be closing soon due to consolidation. Perhaps this is why I am getting a good deal. I want the satin package and if it is in (or can be added) to this car I am going for it!

akirby

Check again - the price they quoted you was after the rebate (which they'll keep) and it was $1500 over invoice (you have to deduct the rebate from the invoice as well).

bigt

I must be missing something. Here is what I came up with:

MSRP Invoice What others pay
Total with Options $37,735 $34,476 $37,735

MSRP Invoice
National Base Price
A note about advertising fees $31,050 $28,625 $31,050
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code Change - - $0
Optional Equipment $5,970 $5,136 $5,970
97N Navigation System w/THX II Premium Sound System $2,495 $2,146 $2,495
13B Power Moonroof $1,200 $1,032 $1,200
64F 17" 8-Spoke Chrome Aluminum Wheels $895 $770 $895
46B Cooled Front Perforated Premium Leather Seats $495 $426 $495
51H HID Headlamps $495 $426 $495
85E Satin Nickel Aluminum Interior Trim Package $195 $168 $195
62S Sirius Satellite Radio $195 $168 $195
Color Adjustment - - $0
Black Clearcoat
Destination Charge $715 $715 $715

Total with Options $37,735 $34,476 $37,735

heyjewel

Geez. In 2001 I paid about $31000 for my LS which had all options except heated seats, a German-made 5 speed manual transmission, a bullet-proof 3.0 liter Duratech engine, a moonroof etc AND it shared an aluminum chassis with a Jaguar giving it handling on the order of, if not better than a BMW 5-Series.

Now we're paying $5000 more for a Mazda 6-clone made in Mexico (for about $8.00 worth of labor - leaving the folks who made my Lincoln at Wixom unemployed) and with a transmission shifter that allows 2 choices of forward gears. Ah, progress.

bigt

Here is a nice site that has great pictures and explains all of the great features on the vehicle:

http://www.car-forums.org/showthread.php?t=113

Also I found a better configurator on the Canada Ford site. I see the prices are higher up there:

http://www.ford.ca/main/default.asp?model=MKZ&section=2&sVehCategory=Lincoln&lan- guage=en&session=%7BAD0D28CC-B032-4FA4-AA28-B5FE97595087%7D&source=FC&prospectId- =

akirby

Invoice is 34,476 minus the factory rebate which makes it 33,476. They offered it to you for 34,991 which is $1500 over invoice. Unless the $34,991 didn't include the rebate.

bigt

My cousin works at GM and told me that AWD is a waste of my money since I am on the East Coast in the DC area with only 1-2 snowfalls per year.

It cost around 1.5-2k extra and eats 1-2 miles per gallon.
What do you think? Worth it or not?

bigt

There are a few of them out there I see:

LINCOLN AND MERCURY BRAND SEPTEMBER 2006 U.S. SALES

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/10/03/023828.html


Sept 06 05 YTD 06 05
Town Car 2,220 4,635 -52.1 29,209 37,008 -21.1
LS 446 1,222 -63.5 8,368 16,697 -49.9
MKZ 2,065 0 NA 24,003 0 NA

Lincoln Cars 4,731 5,857 -19.2 61,580 53,705 14.7

But then again, how does one lose 5.8 billion in a quarter?

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?Feed=AP&Date=20061- - 023&ID=6125160&GT1=8618

Makes me wonder if I should buy into this brand?

akirby

You shouldn't worry about buying a Ford or Lincoln. They know what's wrong and are well on their way to fixing it but it will take a few years to get it all turned around. Don't be surprised if it gets even worse before it starts to get better. But they're headed the right way.

As for AWD - it's one of those things that you probably only need a few times a year. The question is how much you'll miss it on those few occasions when you do need it. If you don't have it now, and don't remember needing it, then you can probably live without it.

bigt

Wow, those Jaguar numbers are scary down 32% for the year.

06 ----05--------------06-------05
Total Jaguar 1,158 2,135 -45.8 16,508 24,284 -32.0

savetheland

FMC actually sold almost twice more Milans this Sept than Sables year ago. But twice less Fusions than Taurases. Milans seems to make about 30% of Fusion sales so I do not see a point in getting rid of Mercury what many "analysts" suggest. Jaguar is down almost 50% and nobody talks about closing Jaguar (what makes more sence from financial point of view). I think so called "analysts" are more driven by emotions than common sence (when they predicted correctly to sell or buy stocks anyway?).

Note that all big cars like S80/500/Montego/CV/GM are down considerably.

[Deleted User]

Because they are boring! Nothing to make any of them stand out in a crowd.

CV/GM could have stood out, being what they are, with investment in a real styling update. These old things are well beyond grill and taillight changes. They need a new profile, a new shape. With that, as RWD body-on-frame v8s, they would sell in much bigger numbers than they do now.

bigt

I am having trouble finding the MKZ Black on Black with the Satin Package. Most of the MKz's are configured with wood. I like the look of the Black on Satin Nickel. What do you guys think am I off track?

I am still debating the FWD versus AWD!

akirby

You can't be off track - it's your car and your preferences!

Once you figure out what you want - go order one. You'll have to wait a few weeks but you'll get exactly what you want. Don't compromise if you don't have to - you'll regret it later.

bigt

Thanks, here is the look of the Satin Package. I just didn't want to make it look cheap with metal but I like the way it looks versus a bunch of dark on dark wood.
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<img src="http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/60586/07.jpg"

[Deleted User]

I think the metal is a good choice. The black is just too black with the dark wood (IMHO).

akirby

I agree. Black with wood isn't as attractive.

bigt

Now this is what I am talking about! Time to go trick and treating!

I just wanted to let you know, I have located some other MKZs black with black interior, and the metal trim package. It is the last week of the month. Please, let me know what I need to do to earn your business.

I will sell you any out of stock MKZ for $1,000 over invoice, and then minus the $500 customer cash rebate. So it will put you at $500 over invoice. If you get a better price in writing, please let me know, and I will try and do better. If you want to purchase one of our in-stock MKZs, I will sell that to you for $500 over invoice, and then minus the rebate.

Update:
Well interesting enough that their invoice price is about 500 higher than what Edmunds calculates it. Oh why must we play games! :mad:

bigt

Actually invoice price on this vehicle is $35,050. Sometimes with Lincoln Mercury products, invoice prices will vary anywhere from a few dollars to $100 dollars, depending on where the vehicles were originally shipped to dealerships from. To give you an example, another vehicle out there (that is exactly the same), has an invoice of around $34,990. I quoted you on a higher invoice because I always use worst case scenario so there are no pricing surprises if I can't get the other car. It is better to be surprised and save a few dollars than it is to have a higher cost even by a few dollars.

displacedtexan

I tend to be a stubborn contrarian by nature, and unlike nvbanker, I'll never go over to the dark side ( ) and support the Toyota/Lexus empire, no matter the quality of the cars. But, for grins I looked at an ES350. Wow. It struck me that the interior materials quality, fit and finish, and sophistication of design was so far ahead of the MKZ as to be a cliched "light years ahead." As much as I hate to admit it, Lincoln has a long way to go to match Lexus. The brain drain at Ford written about elsewhere on this forum during the Nassar years is telling.

bigt

Ok, which Lexus and with what options can I get for 34k? I priced one out with similiar features and it came out to 43k.

displacedtexan

Pretty much the base model, with leather and a sunroof, was %37k, the same sticker I saw on an MKZ AWD, THX sound, sunroof, no satnav system. I think.

No doubt there's a price difference between the two. So, I guess someone shopping the MKZ will cross-shop the ES350 cousin, the Toyota Camry. Sad day for Lincoln to be cross-shopped with a Toyota.

All that said, I'd still buy the Lincoln over a Lexus, just because I'm cantankerous.

explorerx4

interesting observation!

explorerx4

there is an advirtising item on the factory invoice that is not included in the edmunds invoice.

bigt

Thats interesting. And we all are paying it?

Did everyone see the MKz ads during tonights World Series game?

akirby

It's part of the invoice, so the dealer pays it (and therefore you pay it one way or the other) except for A/X/Z plans where the final price is already on the invoice and no fees are added.

bigt

So it is a fair price I am getting? Amazing but all of the dealer quotes are coming back at the same price.

jtford

The news that the MKZ is using the Aisin 6-spd is disappointing and contrary to the original expectations set earlier this year. Is it just me or is anyone else annoyed that the transmission in the MKZ is the non-strategic Aisin using-it-because-we-had-to-not-because-we-wanted-to 6-spd?

I held off on the Zephyr knowing that one year later the 3.0L + Aisin would be an orphaned drivetrain replaced by a superior 3.5L + 6F combination. Hearing that Ford only delivered half the equation and that the 3.5L + Aisin is again a one-year orphaned drivetrain combination to be replaced next year again makes me not want to buy it. It's impossible to get a back-to-back test drive, but I have to believe that th 6F provides superior shifting/driving-experience...

Ford's anemic ability to get updated drivetrains in their vehicles is frustrating... Namely 3.5L + 6F transmission should have been in 500/Fusion/MKZ in 2005 model year.