TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

allknowing

Don't be too hard on vince or he may go away. It's nice having a resident dumb guy to effectivly support the Tacoma even though he thinks that he is doing otherwise. He's kind of like Beavis of "Beavis and Butthead". As you can see from his last post, he's smiling because he enjoys being known for posting stupid things. Funny guy.

midnight_stang

You seem to miss the point. Maybe I'm a bit more verbose than necessary. You don't have to keep on saying relax my friend, or maybe I'm wound up too tight, cuz I'm not. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, and because Vince, like us all, base the personal opinion on personal experience and observation. I also pointed out that his originally debated post concerned only 1 toyota vehicle, so how could anyone reasonably say it's systematic of all toyota's or owners??

midnight_stang

Power Package (power doors, windows, mirrors, etc)
Ranger: $405 Tacoma: $500 to 660.
A/C
Ranger: $650(Std with Edge+) Tacoma: $985
Clock:
Ranger: Std. Tacoma: $82
Tach:
Ranger: Std. Tacoma: $95
Cruise& Tilt Steering
Ranger: $325 Tacoma: 250+245=$595
Bed Extender:
Ranger: $195 Tacoma: $269
Trailer Hitch:
Ranger: $214 Tacoma: $339
CD Player, radio, casette(Clock for Rangers)
Ranger: $130 Tacoma: $330, 275(minus cassette)
6-disc in dash
Ranger: $270 Tacoma: N/A?

Most of these are creature comforts, but definately there is a trend to be seen. Does not include the group packages available in either make.

eharri3

There's that immeasurable thing called QUALITY. Everything on the Tacoma may cost more and there may even be some features available on the Ranger you can't get on the Tacoma, but the extra money for the QUALITY is built in to the extra cost of each option. Remember, that's a QUALITY Toyota clock, and a QUALITY Tachometer, and a Genuine TOYOTA towing hitch.Those Ford hitch units probaby fall off the truck if you pluck them with a single finger...

eharri3

But I truly believe that even though the domestics have closed the quality gap Toyota still charges a premium just becasue they are Toyota, and they know that many buyers will automatically think the name makes them superior.

spoog

\\There is no way to prove which brand of truck is most reliable. When I said, in the above post, that the Tacoma is more reliable; I obviously have no proof to back this up.\\

There is now ay to tell if spedometers work...there is now way to tell if the space shuttle can stay together in space...there is no way to prove if one tire lasts longer than another...

YES there IS. IT's called research and data and testing.

allknowing

Based on vince's comment, I stated that vince as well as his supporters should mature rather than generally infer that Toyota owners are liars. You proceeded to accuse me in post #1812 of having said so because it contrasted my experiece with the Tacoma, the head gasket problem pushing my button, dismissing CR's opinion, etc. Those points had nothing to do with my statement, and from your comments you appeared worked up, so I consequently recommended that you to relax. Bottom line, the original comment was my opinion at the time base on my experiences. Rather than simply defend vince's right to an opinion, may I also be allowed to express mine also? All in all, it's not worth arguing about. Let's forget it and go on.

midnight_stang

spoog--->The point was that cars and truck's reliability is definitely dependant on how the truck is used and maintained, which is unique in all situations. It's hard to assumptions about the whole model fleet, on a test group of one.

AK--->Sounds good, just watch the wide conjecture when retorting to my posts(or Ranger posts or you'll see me coming. An opinion is like an [non-permissible content removed], everyone has them. (Would hate to be the one to take that away from anyone; it would be ugly.) It's been fun. . .

smc13

I have looked at reviews and have only seen two that indicate that the ranger was better , Consumer Reports which essentially called the Ranger the best of the worst (they basically said all compact trucks are awful buy a full size, but if you must buy a compact truck buy a Ranger), and the one that someone posted here that rated the Ranger better than every other compact truck including the Mazda. Every other site I have seen indicates that the Taco is the better vehicle (including the carpoint site that you keep mentioning).

I was going to buy a ranger right up to the point that I test drove it and then test drove the taco. Because of my test drive I bought the tacoma.

Btw, the Rangers 4.0 V6 does not get 205 HP. It gets 207HP according to Ford's website. Give your ranger the credit it deserves.

barlitz

you just contradicted yourself, after golf yesterday we had to push a camry it seems they had no reverse,it was only a few years old.

spoog

\\spoog--->The point was that cars and truck's reliability is definitely dependant on how the truck is used and maintained, which is unique in all situations. It's hard to assumptions about the whole model fleet, on a test group of one.\\

Incorrect. While this may be part of the formula ,how a vehicle is BUILT, and the QUALITY of the parts tested for that vehicle determine the reliability and quality.

I can build a cheap factory, have minimal tests, and skimp money on research and cheap parts. This will ultimately p[roduce a less reliable vehicle.

spoog

Speaking of CHEAP parts, Ford thinks it's ok to pollute our world to save a few cents. Yet another sign gang that Ford cuts corners. This is why they can't build reliable vehicles or offroaders.

http://chicagotribune.com/article/0,1051,SAV-0107160022,00.html

States ask Ford to replace switches with mercury

By Michael Gormley

Associated Press

July 16, 2001

ALBANY, N.Y. -- Attorneys general from around the country, including Illinois Atty. Gen. Jim Ryan, have asked Ford Motor Co. to replace light switches containing mercury during the current recall of defective tires.

But Ford said it has no plans to comply with the attorneys' general request. Instead, it will continue phasing out the mercury switches, Ford spokeswoman Robyn Schultz said.

This is the final year the switches will be installed, and Ford has encouraged salvage operations and other recyclers to remove them before cars are destroyed, Schultz said.

The attorneys general said in a letter to Ford that the voluntary replacement of mercury switches would prevent more than 2 million grams of mercury from being released into the environment. The mercury is released, potentially into ground water, when cars are crushed or burned in recycling.

The amount of mercury in the switches of just four cars can contaminate a 17-acre lake, said a spokesman for New York Atty. Gen. Eliot Spitzer.

Mercury exposure over long periods causes neurological damage in children.

Replacing mercury switches with 38-cent ball-bearing switches would cost Ford hundreds of thousands of dollars in parts for the vehicles involved in the safety recall of 6.5 million Firestone tires and Ford's replacement of 13 million more.

In addition to New York and Illinois, 21 other states and three U.S. territories asked Ford to recall the switches.

eharri3

But the huge disparaties between foreign and domestic build quality had shrunk quite a bit and in some cases were gone by the mid nineties. And now, the Japanese are making the same mistake that the big three made up until the gas crisis... they are taking their share of the market for granted and starting to let quality control slip.

smc13: I have to go back to that consumer reports article and re read it. I was pretty sure CR hated full sized anything, most specifically trucks and SUV's. I remember reading that they liked Compact pickups for their more managable size and good fuel economy. Items I remember about the Ranger include car like ride and good ameneties. Items I remember about the Tacoma include flimsy sheet metal in the bed that buckled when the load was pushed agaisnt it and awkward handling.

frey44

read this. i bet you will then NOT use it anymore !

http://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/oil-additives.html

cpousnr

Spoog says:
"I can build a cheap factory, have minimal tests, and skimp money on research and cheap parts. This will ultimately produce a less reliable vehicle. "
And your facts that Ford, let alone Ranger, does this would be where?

You seemed to have missed this as Ford is addressing the issue and has done nothing illegal:
"...it will continue chasing out the mercury switches, Ford spokeswoman Robin Schultz said. This is the final year the switches will be installed, and Ford has encouraged salvage operations and other recycles to remove them before cars are destroyed, Schultz said."

Do you know for sure that Toyota does not use that type of switch?

Typical WHACK attitude. The guy drives a vehicle that rusts more than the average, gets less gas mileage than a Ranger, states he often races Rangers for fun(reducing gas milage even more and dumps rubber smoke into the air and burned rubber dust into the ground) and then has the gall to complain about Ford.

The old "...do as I say not as I do..." and "...I know better how you should do things..." attitude. Not to mention that he often has bragged about using his truck to mud in cow pastures, ripping up the enviornment. . .!

Take a simple math class yet to avoid another embaresment such as your "...industry average..." post?

indacurl2k

I test drove a brand new, shiny red Ford Ranger this past weekend.

Great truck!

IMHO, I was very impressed.

Easily the most standard features out there.

Good price tag too.

All in all, I was very tempted.

However, I'm still a bit skeptical of Ford's quality. I left the lot thinking my Tacoma is, even with 65k miles on it; still SLIGHTLY more reliable than a new Ranger.

smc13

The consumer reports article said "The Ranger and similar Mazda B-Series are our top-rated compact pickups
overall. But this category has few winners to choose from. And even these two never let you forget you're in a truck."

My impression from looking at their reviews of the compact trucks and the full size ones lead me to believe that they liked the full size ones better. Unfortunetly, they don't seem to have the report of the f150 online so I can't tell you what they said about it ( A friend of mine logged me into their website - he has an account for some reason).

allknowing

It makes sense to me CP. Hopefully Toyota has corrected the rust problems but if they haven't, my Toyota is completely biodegradable and will rust away to nothing in 30 years. Your Ranger, on the other had, will still be sitting there harboring a potential mercury leak. I guess good points depend on how you wish to spin the information.

beantaco

My local toyota dealer says there is nothing new for the 2002 tacoma, has anyone heard otherwise?

eharri3

No matter which way you cut it, big or small, CR dislikes trucks. That quote does not prove they prefer full sizers. It just proves what I've always believed about them... that they can't respect a vehicle for its unique capabilities, only if it does what THEY think any car should do, which means ride like a Camry, accelerate like a CAmry, seat as many people as a Camry, be a Camry...

midnight_stang

Really, you guys are thinking mercury, and forgetting about fuel, oil, engine and trans, battery acid, rear differential oil, etc? Think of the quantity of mercury involved in a switch opposed to the gallons of other oil and contaminants found in every vehicle. Any mercury from any switch is a drop in the bucket. And any city that has a water reservoir next to a salvage yard, well, it's just plain stupid. Yes mercury is water soluble, however it is easily filtered from any water source by your utility company.

So don't drink from the puddles, and it'll be alright.

Spoog Speaks: "I can build a cheap factory, have minimal tests, and skimp money on research and cheap parts. This will ultimately p[roduce a less reliable vehicle."

Prove one of any of your above facts, and I'll buy a Tacoma tomorrow.

cpousnr

most was in jest...lighten up! 8^)

Go look at your home thermostat. Most of them work on the principal of a mercury switch. When the coil of dissimilar metals twist with temp changes, the mercury in a tube contacts two probes making the circuit.

Mercury switches are also used in the lighted silent toggle switches throughout my house.

They are far superior to a contact switch that can and does build up junk on the contacts, heat and eventually fail and/or cause fires from over heated switches or wires.

Do you have that type of fire hazard in your Tacoma or is it too a mercury switch?

At any rate, the amount of mercury is insignificant and is only brought to light by spoog to make someone else incur expense to make him feel like he is doing something for the environment, even though I would submit his bragging about racing from lights, burning tires and general speeding proves he is less friendly to the environment than me and my modern spark free, heat build up free mercury switched Ranger.

cpousnr

In the 70's they were convinced we were heading into an Ice Age...now its warming...

At any rate, they are not friendly to the use of motor vehicles and if given their way, in 10 years your truck will be fiberglass, weigh 2,500 lb max, will be unable to go off road, tow anything of any weight and will not survive a crash...oh, sorry Tacoma has reached that plateau with it's star crash rating. . .!

But you get the general gist I hope.

Watch your freedoms off-roaders and truck drivers. Those freedoms are in the sights of extremists.

spoog

\\Really, you guys are thinking mercury, and forgetting about fuel, oil, engine and trans, battery acid, rear differential oil, etc?\\

Mercury is 1000 times more toxic and harmful to the environment than spilled oil or gas!

Did you ever take chemistry?

Mercury poisons entire ecosystems and generations.

spoog

\\At any rate, the amount of mercury is insignificant and is only brought to light by spoog to make someone else incur expense to make him feel like he is doing something for the environment\\

This is insignificant? This is enough to cause cancer in human beings, birth defects(mercury's specialty) and pollute and ecosystem forever:

"The amount of mercury in the switches of just four cars can contaminate a 17-acre lake, said a spokesman for New York Atty. Gen. Eliot Spitzer."

FOUR Ford vehicles, just FOUR contain enough MErcury to contaminate a 17 acre lake. That is an enormous amount of toxicity.

So lets see, we have cheap, non-tested tire cover-ups, hoods flying up, and now the toxyfiing of our lands thanks to Ford cutting corners. Whats next?

1busman

I bet Ford isn't the only vehicle manufacture using mercury or something else that's just as hazardous. Nor, would I believe that mercury from four switches could contaminate a 17 area lake just because some attorney general said so. I think thats a knee jerk reaction. I would like to hear that one from someone that's a reliable source. But one the other hand the politians here in California said that MTBE was safe in gasoline, yet it's one of the worse cancer causing chemicals there is and now they can't get it out of the gas fast enough.

modvptnl

kid's shoes that had the lights in the soles have mercury switches??? THOSE BASTARDS!!!

You know them blowing up Toy head gaskets spewed anti-freeze all over the nations highways. With Toys acclaimed off-road philosophy they are probably more responsible for the exploration AND destruction of our precious rain forests. BOYCOTT TOYOTA!!!!

cpousnr

on Toyota's have killed more animals than any mercury in car switches.

That democratic A.G. aid in NY is lying to you, similar to Grayout Davis in Calf. There the energy companys that have been ripping off the consumer are from Calif, Oregan and Washington, NOT Texas. But that stuff plays real good. . .That hook feel good in your mouth from these guys?

Remember, I said, and it is true, that my house, and many maybe most, have theromstats that contain mercury. My house has 17 silent mercury wall outlet switches, no problems. You want to put a contact switch in your house to cause a fire, go ahead.

And get this, when I was 10-12, I use to break thermometers for the mercury and would rub it with my bare fingers on pennys to change them to silver color. So if mercury is so darn toxic, why am I not dead yet. My blood tests have shown no elevated levels of mercury. Also, I had 2-3 mercury thermometers break in my mouth when I was a kid, no problems. I am 51 now with NO, repeat no problems. So you want to buy the lie, go ahead but I consider that irresponsible.

So tell me again how 4 switches can contaminate a lake? What a crock but what is sadder is you bought it hook, line and sinker.

I just think you need to grow up and worry about all the pollution dumped in your state, Illinois. I am sure you can find a soap box that may be covered by lead based paint. . .

An I doubt that Toyota does not make a car with a mercury switch.

Give up your freedoms and conveniences, not mine thank you.

lariat1

All the environmentalists tell us that mercury is bad and it should never be used cause exposure to it will cause all these problems.Someone should ask them where the mercury comes from last time I checked we got it from the ground so I propose we start a recall on the entire earth cause everything is going to kill us eventuatlly.
God I hate environmentalist they should all be shot and used as fuel for power plants.

smc13

I agree that CR doesn't like trucks, but their reviews of the F150 and the Tundra were much nicer than their review of the Ranger and tacoma which gave me the impression that they think full size trucks are better than compact trucks. Look up their reviews.

smgilles

Now I know why your drive a Ford, too much Mercury as a kid:) J/K!

I love politicians and scare tactics, I think we have much bigger problems than mercury switches.

allknowing

My last post didn't make it for some reason. The jist of it was that I was only kidding about the rust and mercury CP. I thought your Toyota rust comment was funny so I took it a bit further.

midnight_stang

I have a backpacking filter, that I purchased for 99 bucks that will filter the scummiest of water (even piss and puke) into potable h20. A quick check of the manual notes that it filters out everything from silt to virus and bacteria, as well as natural poisons such as arsenic, lead, etc. This includes Mercury, and any other water soluble biohazard.

Do you think the water served via municipal or private utilites are any different? Your argument is ridiculous to say the least.

Tell me what responsible person is dumping 4 fords into a lake, with SEALED mercury switches, and then crying about water contamination?

If you want to be realistic about it, Lincoln was ingesting Mercury for years. He stopped because he felt "cross" by taking them, but ultimately died by gunshot.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1441000/1441454.stm
So yes it is bad to ingest it. Yes you'll probably die because of other reasons anyways. Yes, Ford no longer uses them due to this potential of people sucking on broken switches in their car. No Ford's switches are not the result of mass public poisoning. No the logistics involved of hunting down every single ford to remove these switches are corporately unrealistic. Yes all other makes probably have them as well. Yes the Media/Atty General is picking on Ford due to it's popularity and largest amount of vehicles on the road.

It obvious you don't like Fords, but next time have something to back it up with.

midnight_stang

Yeah, the teflon stuff is kind of like snake oil. It smooths out the rough spots, but then you got teflon all over the place. I'd recommend ZMAX over anything else. It has a money back guarantee that it will improve your gas milage. I package treats everything from Engine, Transmission and fuel(for injectors, pumps, etc). I definitely noticed like-new smoothness and much reduced operating, idling, and cruise RPM, especially with 136k miles.

allknowing

Actually you can eat pure mercury without any problem because your body won't absorb it in pure form. The vapor, on the other hand, is quite dangerous.

1busman

I remember when I was shopping for my truck ( which is a fully loaded supercab xlt 4X4) the dealer who happens to be a family friend couldn't understand why I would pay 23k for a ranger when she could get me an F-150 for another 6k. Like a told her "I don't want an F150, I like the smaller truck. The way I see it, each to their own, drive them all and then decide. The magazine acticles are a good starting point, but their not an end all. How many times have you read a movie review that said "it's a bomb" but actually was a good movie. Other than the technical data the rest is just opinion.

cpousnr

Must have throw at least 10-15 away... too much trouble to take to a recycle place... get in the way of the newspapers, cans, plastic and oil I recycle. So if 4 switches can ruin a lake, why is the whole city of Denver not dead due to my 10-15 batteries?

Popped some of those babies in fires to watch em explode too. . .

Guess I have to call EPA for a super fund site. . .

Allknowing, I know! No malice intended!

Lariat:
I dont mind true envornmentalists, but the ones on the left side of Teddy Kazinski(I know the spelling is wrong), you know the ones that burn the Two Elks Lodge in Vail, send letter bombs, spike trees, and in general destroy the lives of many hard working Americans JUST TO GET THIER WAY are fairly worthless.

I also use mercury in my vaccume tubes used to adjust my 4 carbs on my 1976 Kawasaki 900. HIGHLY accurate gages as compared to the needle gages. But someone on this board would condem me for using accurate tools, overheat proof silent switches and a Ford because of the mercury.

Well, having met some of those far left people in protests at the Cape, I can tell you that half, yep half at least are PAID, yes PAID to stand out there and protest. I cite the launch of Cassini in 1997 which used NPG's nuclear powered generators because the sun is a bit weak in the area of Saturn. The protestes at the time were convinced we were all gonna die due to Cassini exploding with NPG's and even came to protest a couple of years later when Cassini came back to use the Earth as gravity assist on its voyage.

So I will drive a Ford, mercury switches and all, and be proud it has advancements in technology embeded within. . .

Stang:
Wait, you mean I do not have the switches? Dang! Gotta get me an old one to suck the switches. . .

rickc5

Didn't you know that the EPA monitors all posts on Edmunds???

Oh, oh, oh, I feel my throat constricting. It must be from YOUR batteries. Now I feel faint and feverish......

LOL!!!

BTW- I also played with mercury when I was a kid. Probably ate paint containing lead too. What about all that stuff we used to SMOKE? Holy cow, batman! How did I live to be this old???

spoog

Almost every state is asking Ford to stop using the mercury. It's not a Democratic or Republican issue.

Oh, Stang -

Does that filter help the fish and other animals that use that water?

Mercury is a nasty,nasty poison. It grows and grows. Contaminated little fish can be effected. Then the big predator fish eat all the little fish and get all their mercury, and so on and so on. Mercury causes horific birth defects. Women are not supposed to eat fish from mercury contaminated waters.

Basically, mercury destroys an ecosystem.

Yet another corner-cutting job by Ford. Just like the tires, hoods, fires, ect and on and on and on.

barlitz

I still eat lead paint.

midnight_stang

Funny spoog, however you forget Mercury is a naturally occurring element.

If it really was an issue, the EPA would be all over it.

Like I said, someone's a idiot in the first place if they start dumping cars into a lake. 2nd, don't fish next to a salvage yard. 3rd, the switch has to be broken for it to spill, and if it is to be dismantled or crushed, it is up to the parties involved in crushing the car to remove any harmful chemicals or prevent them from escaping into the environment. 4th if you're going to start harping on a switch in a car, think of the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of houses and apartments in America with thermostats, thermometers, etc. How come that Atty General didn't include Honeywell, General Electric, and all the other companies?

Do you want me to list all the other toxic chemicals in your household that are thrown into landfills on a daily basis? JUST ASK.

Let me introduce you to another government agency. It's FDA, US Food and Drug Administration. They inspect all foods and drugs that are commercially sold for ingestion. They test for Mercury poisoning, especially in fish.


"Yet another corner-cutting job by Ford. Just like the tires, hoods, fires, etc and on and on and on." Something's flaming here, and it's not a Ford.

midnight_stang

"Due to outside supplier manufacturing issues, a small percentage of these seat belt buckles may not latch properly if insufficient force is applied when inserting the tongue into the buckle. If the seat belt release button does not return to its full up position upon latching, the buckle may not be fully latched."

eagle63

Even though it's pretty ridiculous to start blaming Ford for mercury contamination (although they get blamed for damn near everything nowadays), Spoog is definitely correct about it being a nasty substance.
Unfortunately, it is present in many lakes here in MN. (and around the country) That's why they always tell us to limit our fish intake. especially large fish which for some reason have a higher percentage of mercury contamination. not only does it cause birth defects, but it causes neurological damage in adults over time.

allknowing

We have to watch the fish intake from the beaches here too because of mercury. I don't believe that the mercury contamination is coming from mercury switches in junk yards though but rather from industrial sources.
Stang - Don't forget that uranium, for example, is a natural element too but not something you want to sleep next to. I agree that the switch situation is probably overrated and Ford shouldn't be singled out but there are a lot of natural elements that are dangerous under the right conditions.

midnight_stang

Don't forget that mercury exists in all organisms.

In addition to Ford, Mazda, GM, and Daimler Chrysler, American Honda, Mercedes Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Porsche, Volvo, Volkswagen, Audi, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lexus and Toyota all have Mercury switches. Looks like Tacoma is clean, but Camry's,Avalon's, Land Cruisers, Prius, Sienna, and just about every Lexus has Mercury in their navigation display, Optitron Instrumentation, Vehicle Entertainment System (VES) Display, or HID Headlamps. This includes 2000-2002 models.

http://www.cleancarcampaign.org/mercury.html for Reference.

midnight_stang

to be precise, not all of the above vehicles have mercury in switches, but indeed they have mercury in some other part. GM also includes all of General Motors(Caddy, pontiac, chevrolet, etc.)

The following is for spoog:

"New paint facility control technology developed by Ford Motor Company that reduces emissions and improves vehicle paint quality, has won the Society of Automotive Engineers first “Environmental Excellence in Transportation Award.”"

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=8320

"The day-to-day waste reduction and recovery actions taken last year by employees at Ford Motor Company's Twin Cities Assembly Plant saved 66,500 mature trees, 22 million gallons of water and 13 million kilowatt hours of electricity, enough to meet the annual power needs of 1,100 homes. "

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=8240

I thought Ford only wanted to cut corners and pollute the environment spoog?

smc13

I didn't think that Mercury made pickups. If they do, are they upscale Rangers? If they aren't why are we bothering to discuss them here?

Steve Cohen

issisteelman

Can we please get back on the topic. I know how to get us all back on track. I'll just repeat what every smart consumer should know. The Tacoma is a better truck than a Ranger. Any arguments to the contrary? I didn't think so. See you in the most muddy places on Earth........ Steelman.

allknowing

I guess that fact had already been established issisteelman so we were just talking about some other stuff that was really debatable and not obvious.:)

ebbgreatdane

So in any textbook for Management study you will find the following statement in some form:

The normative objective of a firm is to maximize (optimize) shareholder wealth for a give level of risk.

If Toyota and/or Ford could get away with it, they'd dump in every river of America if they thought it would turn a profit.