Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

10years

In the $21K range you can get an new 2004 Forester XT. Your cat like "who ate the bird" smile factor would be long lasting. Forget the Ford cracker box.

           Have Fun.

edunnett

Actually... you can get that loaded Ford Focus SE wagon loaded for only $17,000 through cars direct. The Focus is a Consumer Reports recommended car (I have no idea why) since it has low predicted owner satisfaction, good expected reliability (a ford ... GOOD reliability?! - but still below any Subaru, Honda or Toyota), and poor expected depreciation.

Had you considered the Subaru Impreza wagon? Cars direct price $16,000. The Impreza is a Consumer Reports recommended car, has very high owner satisfaction and good reliability and good expected depreciation.

Consider also that the Ford Focus has 42 consumer complaints lodged against it with the NHTSA and the Subaru Impreza has 4 (has 14 actually but all but four are duplicate entries). Hence, the predicted owner satisfaction rating with Consumer Reports.

I would also recommend the Toyota Matrix and the Mazda 3 if you aren't interested in the Impreza or the Forester. Honestly, anything but a Ford. It stands for "Found on Road Dead".

-Elissa

suydam

I used to bash Ford too but am coming around to looking at them again. We drove a Ford Focus wagon in Europe and really liked it. I'm also very interested in the new hybrid Escape. I think the reliability problems were in the first couple of model years and Ford has improved since. I think the Impreza wagon and Mazda 3 wagons are good ideas too (the Matrix for me is rather odd-shaped but obviously some like it). Drive them all, including the Forester, and see which you like best and which seems to fit your needs and wants best. I intend to take a look at the Focus myself in another couple of years. If you don't need the all-wheel drive, and if you want better gas mileage, it's worth checking out.

mpgman

Thanks for the replies...keep them coming. Ruled out the Impreza....no side air bags. I'm talking the Focus SES wagon, not the SE. This is the former ZTW. Don't like the Matrix leg room or the restricted rear and side visibility and the Mazda 3 is a tad too small....prefer a wagon.

veritasusa

I am now the still-undecided owner of a 2005 Forester XS w/auto. I've had it for almost one month and 2500+ miles. Until I have had more experience with the service department of the dealer from which I purchased it, I can't give an unqualified thumbs-up.

I had driven Chrysler Corp. minivans for 12 years prior to this purchase; the last being a 1999 T&C Ltd. My previous car to those was a 1988 Dodge Colt Vista 4WD wagon (Mitsubishi Space Wagon in other parts of the world). We really liked the Vista, its 7-passenger seating was actually able to hold 6 adults and picnic gear on more than one occasion. Its subsequent redesign and enlargement in the early '90s made it even better in most respects, but the fact that its new 2.4L SOHC engine was a bit underpowered for its new size and weight, its rise in cost, and the fact that Chrysler Corp. didn't offer the LWB 7 passenger version and Mitsubishi dealers were hard to find back then, decided our change to a full minivan. If a modern equivalent of the 7 passenger Space Wagon were offered today, we would jump on it!

But a mild heart attack on my part meant that my wife would have to resume driving after a several-year hiatus in case something more happened to me and she just couldn't feel comfortable or in control of a car as large as the minivan. And we really cannot justify owning two cars.

So, we looked at what is on the market today and finally narrowed it down to the Toyota RAV4 and the Forester. Our choices were helped immensely by Consumer Reports and by reading various Edmunds forums, this one included. The inclusion of the Subaru in the short list was aided by the experiences of other family members elsewhere in the country with Subarus dating back several years (We live in East-central Florida).

The RAV4 had the primary advantages of having a dealer only about 20 miles or so from us in Daytona Beach and of being available in 2WD for a bit of monetary savings. The nearest Subaru dealer is about 43 miles away in the Northern suburbs of Orlando.

A test drive of the RAV4 made my wife feel that it was too tippy in the turns. She also didn't like the spare tire hanging off the rear. I found it rather peppy and reasonably quiet, aside from engine noise on acceleration.

But a test drive of a 2004 Forester in late June made my wife's eyes light up with a look I seldom see when shopping, but which lets me know that I am NOT going to get out the door without buying! LOL

The dealer offered a pretty good deal on the 2004 XS w/premium package - and it was white, which was the only color we considered suitable for FL. But it had the moonroof (a waste of money in our eyes) AND black leather seats which, with the modest tinting in the windows, made the interior too bloody hot!

Besides, I had done my on-line homework and decided that 2005 incarnation offered features unavailable in 2004 (the revised transmission, standard cold weather package, and power seat among them), so we decided to wait for the 2005s. The dealer checked his computer and said that a white 2005 was just off the boat. I could have it for MSRP with the usual dealer installed accessories (bug deflector, arm rest extension, splash guards, all weather mats, cargo nets and bin, etc.) thrown in for free. I didn't haggle too much - one cannot expect the sort of deal on a brand-new model that one can on leftovers that have manufacturer's incentives. Besides, this dealer is one of the few I have seen around here that doesn't have that 500-600 dollar "miscellaneous" fee stuck on his paperwork. Actually, I looked at the Edmunds TMV price after we returned home and my price was only fifty bucks or so off the TMV price at that time. I noticed later that the TMV value had changed and now my cost was about $500 more than TMV - more supply, I suppose. His trade in offer on my high-mileage 99 T&C was about right.

The car should have arrived right after the July 4th holiday, which was good for us because I wanted to get some break in miles on it and my wife practiced up before we left for a trip to Indiana late in July. But the day came and went and no car! A week went by and I was getting a bit impatient. Then workmen across the highway from me cut a major phone line and I was without a phone for 6 days (no cell phone). Use of our neighbor's phone brought the info from my salesman that daily storms in Central Florida were holding up rail shipment because of the danger of hail damage to the cars (although all the railway car transporters I remember seeing these past few years have enclosed sides).

The salesman did tell me that a few had arrived, including one in Champagne Gold Opal, the new gold for 2005. I said we wanted white! But another few days' wait made us think that perhaps it be would worth a drive to the dealer to look at the gold one. We did and saw immediately that the new gold is much lighter and more interesting than the previous gold was. It seems to change color depending on the light and what it's parked on or next to, all the way from a warm silver to a rich gold. In fact, the color has prompted the first comment/questions from a total stranger I have had about any of my cars since my Opel Manta Rallye and Mazda rotaries of the early 1970s. A truck driver at an interstate rest stop approached my wife as she was cleaning the windows while I was inside. He said he and his wife had been considering the same two cars we had and he felt immediately that ours must be a 2005. He said that his wife wanted the Forester, but after seeing our color, he wanted that color!

Our only reservation then (and still one today) is that the beige (more gold,really) interior is just TOO light for the kind of use to which this kind of vehicle is likely to be put and the climates in which it is mostly purchased, especially the carpets and cargo floor. The gray interior that comes with white is just enough darker to show less grime.

We drove it home on July 13th sans the splash guards, arm rest extension, and bumper protector (the first two had been ordered in the colors suitable for our white car which never arrived). A few break in miles and days later I returned for the installation of the missing items. I can't figure out why Subaru doesn't reuse the original color-matched top for its armrest extension rather than the black. The splash guards went on ok, but while loading the car for our trip north, I noticed just how crookedly the bumper protector mat had been put on. Part of my dealer satisfaction opinion will be formed by his willingness and ability to make this matter right.

Enough for now - the car is GREAT! Much less wind, engine and road noise (other than tire noise on coarse asphalt) than my T&C. The transmission is the smoothest, most positive automatic I have ever owned. After the break in period, the car seems to want to run happily on the interstate at 80-85 MPH - I keep having to slow down.

veritasusa

I wish this thing would notify one when one has exceeded the message length while typing!

Anyway . . . The torque curve and gearing is such is that the car will maintain speed and even accelerate when doing 70-80 mph on the uphill grades encountered on I-75, I-24, and I-65 between home and Indiana without hunting or downshifting.

With a mix of 80/20 interstate/city-suburban driving, I have had two tank averages over 29 mpg, one just about 26 mpg (a tank of gasohol I pumped by mistake in Indiana) and the rest 27-28 mpg. All at thoroughly illegal interstate speeds and with the a/c mostly on.

Driving through a few periods of heavy rain really gave me a feeling of confidence in the car's tractive abilities, but I immediately missed the higher driving position of my minivans that put me above the worst of the spray. All the traction in the world is useless when one is suddenly flying blind!

More of my experiences with this car when I have them.

P.S. One more thing . . . at our ages (late 60s) we both find that the seats are WAY too hard for comfort on a long trip with 8-10 hour driving days. Perhaps it's because it's more difficult to sort of scroonch around and change position in this smaller car than it was in the Chrysler. We will probably have to get memory foam seat cushions before future trips.

I do like being able to rest my right leg against the console and the dead pedal for my left foot, but I really miss the arm rests of the Chrysler - the door armrest and armrest extension in the Forester are just too low for me and the window ledge is a bit too high. And a hard edge in the door armrest makes it uncomfortable to rest my left leg against it for any length of time.

c_hunter

Great review, thanks! Enjoy your new Forester.

Craig

mpgman

Thanks for sharing. Do you have an automatic or a manual? The mpgs sounded good. The armrest and door rest levels are important for me too. I find the VWs best at this and the Focus is good too. Maybe the top of the armrest is better in black since the oils from your skin can discolor other lighter colors. As to the grey interior, is it cloth? You can get after market leather in any color you want, including the perforated breathable kind. Good Luck. Still deciding between Forester and Focus. Don't want to go the VW route with new platforms a year or so away.

ezshift5

....indicated that his automatic was the "smoothest, most positive" he's ever owned.

...a comprehensive statement - given los anos - indeed!! ez

veritasusa

Mine is the automatic transmission, which makes the mpg figures I am getting all the more surprising. I could have used a 5 speed quite well, but my wife needs an automatic and I like the more sophisticated AWD power proportioning available with the automatic. My wife rechecked the figures 3 times when we got our first 29+ mpg tank figure - she was sure she was making a mistake. But she carries a calculator in her purse to make up for the loss of the trip computer (I wish Subaru offered that feature rather than the measly compass in that too-expensive auto dimming mirror) in the T&C. I'm not a particularly balloon-footed driver, but I avoid full-throttle starts and short stops whenever possible. I seldom use my cruise control - the traffic even on the interstate routes I mostly use is just too heavy most of the time.

All the interiors in the 2005 Foresters are cloth only, except for the new LL Bean edition. The moquette cloth in the XS version is certainly grippy! If I try to slide around on it like like I did in the leather seats of the T&C, I almost pull my shorts off. I am leery about getting a leather interior in the aftermarket because I don't know anyone who has had experience with any local shop that does such work and maladroits of all persuasions seem to abound in this area!

If we could have gotten an LL Bean without the moonroof, we would have sprung for it to get the leather, the auto leveling rear suspension, and the hard surfaces on the luggage area and rear seat backs. Just another example of bloody-minded thinking on the part of of someone at Subaru!

Regarding your comment about the black armrest top, one thing that worries me about the long haul is that the door armrests are cloth and I wonder how well they will hold up to even infrequent contact with my scratchy, dirty elbow. The armrest heights might be better if I had the driver's seat lower, but I have gotten used to the chair-height seating of a minivan and so keep the power seat pretty much at max elevation. Besides, I find that if I sit lower, I have to have the seat farther back for legroom (I'm 6'0") and that leaves the steering wheel too far away for my taste. Oh, for a telescoping wheel!

Also, the radio/cd display washes out in even moderately bright sunlight, but that doesn't bother me at all since I haven't listened to the radio or any other sound in my car for years. I find I am so busy concentrating on the road and the idiot drivers around me that I don't hear anything, anyway.

The minimal tinting of the window glass might be more of a problem here in FL except that the smaller window area compared to my prior T&C keeps the sun off most of my body better and the a/c is right-now efficient. It's effectiveness and relative silence (haven't needed more than fan speed 3 of 7 so far) and my wife's abilty to better direct the airflow cause her to like it much better than the a/c in the T&C.

Lastly (for now) - I don't think much of the all weather floor mats offered by Subaru. They seem stiff, even in FL heat, and the grooves are too shallow to trap the kind of sand and crud I get - even staying on paved surfaces just about all of the time. I will undoubtedly scrap the ones I got and go to the aftermarket for better ones from Weather Tech or the like. It is my firm belief that ANY vehicle manufacturer who installs a light colored, carpeted floor with a driveline hump should offer a full rear mat that covers the hump in the center as well!

rsholland

Excellent write up, and thanks for sharing. I hope you stick around and continue to participate here in the Subaru Crew at Edmunds. Your comments are very useful. Again, thanks.

Bob

leo2633

Very insightful review of the Forester by veritasusa. Reminds me of Jack (ballistic). Anyone hear from him anymore?

Len

mckeown

Jack is still an active poster, albeit on the XT Forester forum.
lfdal "Subaru XT Turbo Forester" Sep 29, 2003 2:41pm

veritasusa

Interestingly enough, my first name is Jack. But I see from the post of mckeown that the other Jack is really a John.

Oops! I see that a correction has been made and that ballistic is still a Jack, after all.

And I am NOT ballistic - not (yet) about my Forester, at least.

But if you had asked me several years ago about my 1958 Edsel Citation or about my 1977 Dodge Aspen . . .

njswamplands

lance armstrong's line of 'we have ignition'

leo2633

I remember the Aspen. My father-in-law bought a Plymouth Volare', which was the twin-cousin of the Aspen. It was Motor Trend's Car of the Year, as I recall. Nothing but trouble with that car. My sister-in-law then bought a Renault Alliance, another COTY, I believe, and another POS. My father-in-law swears that the "COTY" award is a curse!

Len

joybell

A neighbouring lady is envious of the fact that my Forester 2.5x does NOT have automatic door locks. Her Buick does. She hit a deer, lost control of her car, ended up in a ditch, and then couldn't get out because she couldn't reach her ignition key to shut off the engine. Thankfully, the car didn't catch fire and the ditch didn't have much water in it. She felt trapped and was in a panic until help came along.

ateixeira

Interesting comparison, I guess the Impreza wagon is really more hatchback shaped, the Forester does offer a more usefully shaped cargo hold.

The new 2.3l PZEV engine is nice, both clean and torquey for that light wagon application. It's only FWD, so see if you could at least get stability control (it was an option on some models last time I checked).

Besides the obvious AWD, Subaru has a longer warranty plus roadside assistance, and a better reliability track records. Perhaps more important, Subaru resale will annihalate the Ford, so whatever you pay extra now, you'll more than recover later.

Example, 2000 Focus SE wagon auto vs. 2000 Subaru Forester L, both auto, both 60k miles, both Good condition, Private Party resale:

Subaru - $10,820
Ford - $5,915

So even if the Subaru cost $2 grand more now, you'll still profit about $3 grand when you sell it later.

More rebates will erode resale even further, so if you buy the Ford just plan on driving it into the ground, because you'll basically get nothing for it if you trade later.

-juice

joseph50

How important is it to get 5 tires when switching brands from the original Geo's? No problem keeping a Geo spare?
Thanks. (The new ones would also be 215/60/16.)

ateixeira

I think the differences would be negligable.

-juice

smittynyc

We've driven our last two tankfuls (04X AT)exclusively within the city. Any "highway" trips have been on the traffic-choked, stop-and-go Deegan, Henry Hudson, FDR, or Cross-Bronx at rush hour; all of the local trips are fairly punishing and slow-speed--lots of lights, lots of hills.

MPGs? 16.42 and 17.13, with AC on only about half the time and just a couple sprint starts (I'm thinking the hills are the culprit here).

Anyone ever have a tank like that? I wouldn't say I'm feeling a tinge of regret over not getting a Jetta wagon or whatever, but that kind of mileage + $2.19/gallon really jacks up those "cost to own" figures.

ateixeira

Keep in mind that you're getting 0 mpg when you sit still, so do it often enough and your average will tank (pardon the pun).

My worst ever, in 6 years, was pure towing, I got 17.3 mpg. I had a trailer connected the entire time, and 3 yards of wood chips in the trailer about half or the time.

2nd worst was off road in the Outer Banks, 20.7mpg the week I spent there. I was on the sand 80% of the time, with the rest on the coastal roads there getting air for the tires.

Mine is a 5 speed, however.

For lots of stop-and-go a hybrid would work wonders, because they shut the engine off entirely.

-juice

lfdal

Around town I average between 15 and 17. My wife's OBW in similar driving (we basically have the same commute) is about 20.0.

On the highway, rare moments that they are, I'm between 22 & 24. Never gone over 24 yet. Have gone under 15.

You're right at $2.19 a gallon, it hurts.

Larry

mpgman

Can't get the 2.3 with the Focus wagon anymore. Only with the 4 door sport model. Traction control is available but you can no longer get Ford's outstanding stability system. Agree on the resale. I keep wishing Forester would come out with a diesel. As to the seats, the after market leather I've seen looks great and they do the armrests and door panels too. The local dealer here in Freehold, NJ does the leather in two tone for the same price. Not sure about what you mean on the warranty. Ford is 5 years and 100,000 on the drive train. My other car is an Elantra GT hatch. Now there's a bargain for under $15K with ABS, traction control, trip computer, fog lights, heated mirrors, great driver legroom and leather. I just prefer a wagon for the second car or I'd go for another. Get around 28 in mixed suburban/highway driving with an automatic.

lfdal

I just helped my ex, who is on disability and is very budget limited, find a new car. After lots of looks couldn't beat the Elantra GT hatch for the money. By the time we gone done dickering came in at 14.4 with all the options mpgman outlined, including moonroof, and AM/FM/CD/MP3 player with removable faceplate. Alarm standard as well. Also came with Michelins rated at treadwear 400, traction A, temperature A.
For a couple of hundred more she now has 10/100, zero deductible bumper to bumper. Since she only put 23000 miles on her last car in almost 7 years this should hold her for quite a while.

Tough deal to beat - but back on topic - rides better and quieter than my XT. :<(

We'll see how it does on antifreeze consumption.

Larry

ateixeira

No 2.3l wagon? Bummer. That engine was torquier and more fuel efficient to boot. That plus it's PZEV, i.e. cleaner.

Ford must've stretched their warranty. Is it just for the Focus, or all models? Maybe they felt they had to compete with the Koreans.

Bummer they no longer sell an Elantra wagon. The old one looked a little like a bullfrog, but it was roomy and affordable.

Larry: to be fair you should compare the Hyundai Santa Fe (or maybe the upcoming Tucson). Per C&D the Forester is quieter.

-juice

lfdal

juice - you're right about the Forester against the Santa Fe being a more valid comparison, but until I figure out where my antifreeze is going I'm admittedly not feeling like cutting my XT much slack at the moment. The problem with slow seeps is that they can become fast leaks at the most inopportune times. I travel in a lot in places and at a lot of times that I'd rather not have to walk home from.

As I said before I'd rather have a mediocre car with a great (okay, even good would be fine)service department, than a great car that I have to spend my days off working on because the dealer can't/won't fix harder to find problems. If I end up not buying another Subaru, it won't be for lack of quality with the car, but lack of any dealer's service department to diagnose and repair it correctly.

BTW - The Elantra engine is also a SULEV engine as well, so very good for those of us trying to be environmentally friendly. And with the alloy wheels, its a sharp little car. I did notice several Hyundai dealers really loading up the Santa Fe's with aftermarket "stuff" often several thousands worth. I see that questionable practice hasn't died yet.

Larry

ateixeira

Yeah, Subie dealers still score in the bottom half of the JDP surveys. At least they're ahead of Toyota. But still, it's hit or miss, it seems.

I'm lucky - I have about 7 Subaru dealers to choose from within 30 minutes' drive.

Elantra GT has better resale value than the other models, so might as well spring for that one if you get a Hyundai.

-juice

crashton6

I put a set of Bosch platinum +4 plugs in my Forester at 36,000. They worked fine, but not any better than the plugs that came in it, Champion's I believe. When it came time to change plugs again I went with a set of NGK's. They work as well as the Bosh plugs did at a much lower price.

Subaru & the dealer would love for you to bring in your car for every little thing. Big money for them. I expect in the future for Subaru to put a label on the hood that reads WARNING NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE! PLEASE RETURN TO DEALER FOR ALL SERVICE! 8-)

Chuck

ateixeira

Might as well say "SEND US ALL YOUR MONEY". ;-)

-juice

hypov

coin and/or dollar bill slots built into the fender, and sign on the hood "Please Deposit $5.00 to Open Hood".

-Dave

ateixeira

Instead of Venti-ports we could call them Vendi-ports.

Some times I'm glad my '93 Miata is pre-ODB2.

-juice

mpgman

I think it's across the board. I'm looking at the Forester X. Does anyone see a big need for the 4 wheel discs and the rear differential on the other models? Is the rear differential redundant with all whell drive? We like the body cladding and the gray bumpers...when you park in NYC from time to time it's worth it since so many parallel park by sound. Since you can add leather it works for us. Anyone out there with the bike rack that hooks into the rear trailer hitch? Easy to use? Thanks.

psfod3

I have 54000 miles on my 03 Forester and my car slides all over the road in the rain. I guess its time to replace the tires that came on the car. I am looking for a decent yet affordable tire that will be good in the rain and snow. I am strongly considering either the Bridgestone Potenza G009 or the Firestone Affinity LH30. Does anyone have any views about either of these or can make any suggestions about any other good tire.

suydam

I just got the Firestone Affinity in June so I can't tell long term, but I like them so far.

joseph50

I'm also looking.
I've noticed the Conti ExtremeContacts are getting a good buzz in the tirerack reviews.

leo2633

I put the Conti's on my 2001 Forester and have been very happy with them after 35K miles. I recommend them, and I'd definitely get them again.

Len

boomerbubba

I have a new XT and am considering options for upgrading the speakers. I do not want to alter the interior kick panels.

* What are opionions about Subaru's optional upgrade -- Subaru part# H630SSA000 ?

* Does anyone know any details or specs for these speakers (construction, frequency response, sensitivity, etc.)?

* Has anyone installed aftermarket speakers? If so, what? AFIK, the choices are limited by shallow space in the four doors and oddball sizing (5") in rear doors. Crutchfield.com only lists possibles for front doors; they have none for rear doors.

* Any experience with the Subaru add-on "whoopie cushion" -- Subaru part# H630SSA200 Subwoofer/Amplifier? Does this unit run in lieu of or in addition to the rear woofer already installed in my XT?

TIA

dannyka

I got the Firestones last November. They do pretty well in the snow and rain. Also not bad on big, sweeping freeway curves. I'm pretty happy with them.

--Dan

mckeown

I have replaced the factory speakers with Panasonic 6.5" in the front and 4" in the rear with the help of the universal adapter plates from the following site:
http://www.mjmautoinnovations.com/subaru.htm
As well as installed the subwoofer mentioned. All the above make the factory radio sound great.
The underseat subwoofer IS independent of the rear speaker on the XT. The rear speaker is driven directly by a seperate plug on the rear of the radio. The under seat subwoofer installs a cable in series with the factory radio standard connector and uses the output of the left and right rear door speakers as it's input drive. It is seperate and apart from the rear factory suwoofer on the XT.
Hope this info helps......P.S.....any previous year Forester or 96-04 Legacy/Outback Subwoofwer will also work. Radio plug is the same. Difference is the simple black strap steel bracket they hold it in place with. Easily reshaped or fabricated for a do-it-yourselfer.

boomerbubba

Thx. What are your subjective impressions of the under-the-seat sub?

mckeown

For a factory Sub, it's really not bad. But it doesn't give the load 'thud' 'thud' I hear from the kids cars these days. For being over 50, I still like Rock&Roll/Heavy Metal. For that, it sounds great. It rounds out the low end nicely. Especially since I travel quite a bit and enjoy the CD's.

edunnett

I also put the Conti Extremes on my '01 Forester at 54K but then sold the car soon after. My feeling on those tires was that the tread was very aggressive and it might be good to rotate them more often then every 7500 miles - the place that installed them for me offered free rotations with the tires and suggested every 3K miles that I come in. I also found the tires to be noisy during the first 1-2 thousand miles.
elissa

edunnett

I always go to Crutchfields on line to figure out what upgrade kits will fit my car. Highly recommend them, they provide free installation instructions too.
Elissa

kens

I haven't done a search on the XT at Crutchfield, but I recall with my 98 Forester, there were choices that were "EZ" install (no modification) and those that required minor changes.

You may be able to go with speakers that are a little deeper than stock. The stockers in my 98 Forester sat in a plastic harness that utlimately limited speaker depth. I believe some of the models in Crutchfield have you remove that harness and use a different way to mount the speakers. I haven't seen the speakers in the XT, however.

Ken

once_for_all

I shopped for the X, but bought an XS because it had the right color and transmission. Two features that I really like on the XS package are the alloy wheels (easy to clean) and the heated seats (major comfort in the winter).

Figure that the XS will have better resale value and look nicer (it has better interior components) at sale time, and the extra money -may- come back to you with little cost for the creature comforts you have experienced.

Note, the auto climate control for '05 models has probably been improved (the '03 and '04 models have very mediocre controls) so maybe this will be an additional benefit.

Is all this worth $2k more? YMMV.

John

boomerbubba

AFIK, there is no difference between the XT and other Foresters when it comes to speaker mounts.

Crutchfield does offer four EZ choices for the front door speakers, including a Pioneer three-way in which the dome tweeter extends forward of the plane of the speaker mount. Yet they say you can use the existing grill on the door kick panel. I find it hard to believe there is that is that much space in front there.

For the rear speakers, which I believe are an oddball 5" (not 5.25") size, Crutchfield has no EZ choices. I guess I would have to drop down to a 4" speaker and use an adapter ring, which seems easy.

The easiest install of all would be just to buy the four Subaru "upgrade" speakers. But I have no reference to judge them by. What are they made of, what are their performace specs, etc? Does anybody know?

mckeown

The front AND rear door speakers are MOLDED into the plastic mounts. Unlike my 2002, which had standard speakers mounted to a plastic adapter and were easily replaced with standard sizes.
The newer speakers do not have any removable parts to help you install replacement ones.
Once I priced the Subaru Upgrade package, I found for less than 1/2 the price I could get the Panasonic speakers (fronts have a nice tweeter in them) and order the adapters.
By the way, I ordered a closeout of upgrade speakers for a 2001-2002 Impreza wagon. They were $36 plus shipping. Gave me 2 6.5" for the front and 4" for the rear. With the mounting kit from the link in my previous message, I replaced all 4 for about $60.

ateixeira

4 wheel disc brakes and the rear LSD are nice but I lack both and my Forester is still the best vehicle in the snow that I've ever driven.

The unpainted cladding is God-like and works miracles to prevent scratches and dings.

I have the OE hitch and the bike rack, yes, it's nice. It only holds 2 bikes, but it does tilt out of the way even with bikes mounted. Takes only about a minute to install or remove. I love it - almost no lifting required, and bikes never, ever touch your Forester.

I prefer manual A/C over auto climate control (HAL), also.

Having said that, I'd look for a Forester XT turbo, the smile on my face would be so wide I'd forget about all the above.

-juice

boomerbubba

(reposting)

Duh! It turns out that because I have an XT, Subaru's upgrade speakers are already installed as standard equipment. (My salesman was confused, and the sticker did not mention this.)

So now I know at least my subjective answer to my own question about how good the updgrade speakers are: They are good, just not quite good enough for my audiophilic ears. I will be installing aftermarket speakers and some sound dampening in the doors.

I don't know how the upgrade speakers compare to the standard-grade units installed on X and XS models. But if anyone wants a bargain on a set of four almost-new factory-upgrade speakers, let me know.