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Tires, tires, tires

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    bignastybignasty Member Posts: 1
    hey,

    i'm lookin' for tires (go fig....:)

    i am looking for some good all seasons
    and i am considering the following:

    yokohama AVID T4/H4
    pirelli p3000
    toyo 800ultra
    bridgestone turanza LSH/T
    michelin harmony

    anyone know anything about these?

    help=appreciated
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I have a 2000 Lincoln LS V8 Sport (RWD). About 13K miles ago I put on a set of 235/50R17 Pilot Sport A/S tires. They started making a lot of noise about a month ago and when I checked them I found that the center strip (about 2 inches wide - made of high silica rubber for wet traction) was worn almost completely away while the rest of the tread was fine. But only on the rear. The fronts were fine. The edge of the tread next to the center strip was also ok - not rounded or worn down. It's like you shaved down a 2 inch strip right down the middle of the tire without touching anything else.

    Recommended pressure is 30 psi. Max for the tire is 51. I've been running 30 or 32 since day 1 and front/rear have always been identical. I have a digital gauge and my own compressor and I check pressure every month or two, so I know they weren't overinflated. And if they were, the fronts should have shown the same wear pattern.

    I'm planning to take it back to the dealer to have it checked but I'm sure they'll say it's a problem with overinflation or alignment/suspension. I heard that RWD performance cars sometimes exhibit this kind of wear. Could this possibly be normal? Could it be a defect in the tire? Could more frequent rotation have prevented it (first rotation was at 13K)? I'm more worried about how to prevent it in the future.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I would never go over 5K on rotation in a RWD or FWD vehicle.

    Also, make sure you're checking your tires cold or know how to figure the hot pressure readings.
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    capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    Front tires generally wear the shoulders faster than the centers. Rear tires do the opposite. Most of this is due to the weight distribution which is hardly ever 50/50.

    FWD cars wear the front tires much more rapidly than the rears, where a RWD, the wear rate is about the same.

    But I think a few extra facts would help clarify the situation. Since you have a compressor and a digital pressure gauge, and seem to know how to use them, it is not too much to ask for tread depth readings across the face of the tread. I call this a profile. I use a digital tread depth gauge from Mitutoyo. It's a bit pricy ($50), but is really accurate. It also has the downside that the measurements are in mm OR thousandths of an inch, not the usual 32nds. You don't need to be that fancy, a simple $5 tread depth measuring to the nearest 32nd or mm will be fine.

    In any event, the fact that the rear tires are wearing faster in the center should not be a surprise. While 13K is a bit long between rotations, it is at least a contributing factor to the noise. I think your next step ought to be to do a rotation and see if the wear doesn't even itself out.

    If I were the tire dealer, that's what I would tell you to do. I might talk about regular rotations, alignment, etc., but in all honesty, this is just a way to try to get out of the situation, hoping that the situation will correct itself.

    However, I don't think you ought to complain about this until you've at least done the right thing by the tires.

    But before we get too far down this road, let's see how bad the profile looks. BTW, be sure to avoid the tread wear indicators when you measure the profiles.

    Hope this helps.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes, I check them cold and I know I was remiss by not rotating them. I have already rotated them (they're directional so I can only do front/rear without remounting them) and they are getting better. I had already planned to measure the tire tread depth across the tires but I don't have a measurement tool yet.

    Never saw this type of wear on my RWD trucks/SUVs. This is my first RWD performance car. If more frequent rotations solves the problem then that's great.
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    kennynmdkennynmd Member Posts: 424
    I have a 98 Mitsubishi MOntero Sport. I just put 4 265/70/R15 Michelin Cross terrains on. I just got it aligned but it seems to be off. Its just not with these tires but my prior ones were trhe same. Every time I get an alignment its always within manufacturers specs but it just never seems to be right. I have tried various shops but it seems to be the same. Does anyone have an answer?
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    when you're dealing with a vehicle with largers tires, just because it's "within specs" doesn't mean it's perfect, by a longshot.

    I'm referring especially to toe settings - if there's a .2-.4 range in specs, you can be sure that a 10" wide, 31" tall tire will make the rig wander if it's just "in the range".

    Explain to the shop that's doing the alignment that you don't want it just "in specs" - you want it right and they should adjust and drive it until it's closer.
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    capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    I agree with zueslewis, that vehicle manufacturer tolerances for alignment are too wide. Toe needs to be within 1/32" PER SIDE (0.15 degrees) of nominal.

    But what is it that makes you think the alignment isn't right? Does the vehicle wander? Does it pull or drift? Vibration?

    A little more info will help get you a better answer.
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    kennynmdkennynmd Member Posts: 424
    the vehicle is pulling to the right. No vibration or anything like that.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    alignment issues usually don't cause any type of vibrations. Jusdt have them align it PRECISELY and drive the vehicle to determine if their work is accurate.
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    capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    Couple of thoughts!

    You've replaced tires and had 2 alignments done and you still have a pull?

    Just to be sure it isn't tires, swap the 2 front tires - left to right.

    If the pull changes direction, then it is tires, if not, try the rears (although I don't ever remember this working). If no change, then it's alignment.

    EXCEPT

    You might have a brake dragging. After driving for a while, put your hand on the driver's side whell, near the hub. Then try the passenger's side. Be careful, the passenger's side may be quite hot. (the driver's side, too!) Any difference in temperature means a brake is not releasing properly.

    Also, if the pull only occurrs when braking, it is definitely the brakes.

    Hope this helps.
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    sirfilesirfile Member Posts: 42
    Michelin is a French company . . . be sure to thank them the next time you purchase tires!
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    edwardn1edwardn1 Member Posts: 103
    ...with 195-75r15 tires which looked RIDICULOUSLY small so I went to 215-75R15 tires which are the largest the rim charts recommend, as the vehicle has 5.5 inch wide rims. At my last alignment the dealer suggested I go to 235-75R15 tires for better wear, but isn't this a no no if the rim chart says you need at least a 6inch rim. I hate to toss the old rims and buy the 6 inch rims that a 235-75R15 requires, so I think I'll stay with the 215's. ANY IDEAS? Are the rim charts that critical, what would happen if I put the 235s on 5.5 inch rims? TIRE GUY ARE YOU OUT THERE?
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    capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    Yes, the rim charts are critical. Using a narrow rim is like sitting in a chair where the legs are too close together. - it's hard to maintain stability.

    My suggestion would be to go to the junkyard....er.... auto recycling center.... and buy a set of 6" or even 7" wheels. There have got to be a billion of them by now so they are going to be nice and cheap. Might even be able to get a set of aluminum wheels for a good price.

    And don't forget that going to a larger diameter wheel is going to throw the speedometer and odometer off, in this case by 9% meaning your speedometer will say 60 mph but you are really going 65.

    Hope this helps.
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    edwardn1edwardn1 Member Posts: 103
    ...I agree about the rim match being important. The 9% is that going from the 215s or the 195s to the 235s? Also with the 215-75R15 size that I now have I am two sizes bigger than what Ford installed on the truck when it was new and using the largest the rim chart says is ok. Question is, should I just stay with 215-75R15? Just want to say thank you for the knowledge I've gained from your posts on this board over the months.
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    capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    The 9% is from the P195 to the P235.

    Personally, I think the SMALLEST tire that ought to be on a standard size pickup is a P235 XL - mostly because of the load carrying capacity. But only you can answer the question of whether it is worth the extra work to get there.
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    edwardn1edwardn1 Member Posts: 103
    Anybody ever see negative results from rotating NON DIRECTIONAL tires in a X or modified X patern. Many have told me its not a good idea even though the tire and car makers recommend it. Even the tech article and video here on edmunds says to keep the tires on the same side of the car during rotation.
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    capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    It is truly amazing how difficult it is rid the world of old, out-dated information.

    The practice of keeping the tires on the same side during a rotation was a product of the early days of radial tires. These tires had some real problems with belt to belt separations and it was thought that changing the direction of rotation was aggravating the situation - hence the recommendation.

    It was learned later what the true problem was, but the recommendation was continued just to be on the safe side.

    Today, however, vehicles have become much stiffer and much better put together, but they are also more sensitive to wheel end vibration. The best way to prevent the formation of irregular wear, which will lead to a vibration, is to rotate regularly using a Modified X pattern.

    It has been recommended, more than once, that vehicle manufacturers eliminate the front to rear type of rotation pattern from the owners manual. However, the issue of DIRECTIONAL tires is always brought up and, given our litigious society, always prevails.

    I was not aware of the article you mentioned, but I will talk with the operators of this web site and see what I can do to get it corrected.

    Hope this helps.
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    geoffdgtigeoffdgti Member Posts: 83
    edwardn1 writes:
    My 85 Ford F150 reg cab longbed left the factory with 195-75r15 tires which looked RIDICULOUSLY small so I went to 215-75R15...

    The web reveals all... There are a number of web sites with tire diameter calculators. You plug in the numbers and out pops tire diameter.

    A quick Google search finds:
    http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette/tire_diameter.htm

    195/75R15 = 26.5" diameter
    215/75R15 = 27.7" diameter

    Your speedo is already off by more than 5%.

    I agree with the suggestion of finding inexpensive used 15"x7" or 16"x7" rims for wider tires. You can always get your speedometer recalibrated.
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    ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    Any authorized and legal way to have this done would require the speedo be marked with a sticker that says it was recalibrated, and possibly need your title to reflect that as well.

    Good luck with that when you're trying to sell the car!

    I don't recommend this unless you plan to run the vehicle down into the ground.
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    mmullinmmullin Member Posts: 10
    Looking to replace the 265/70/15 factory tires on my 1999 Nissan Frontier 4x4. Some off road but mostly highway. Any suggestions? Thanks!
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    I like the new Bridgestone Dueler AT Revo. I think it would work great for your needs. For something more affordable consider the Dunlop Radial Rover AT.
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    mr5by5mr5by5 Member Posts: 11
    Bought our GM a year ago with 35K miles on it equipped with what appear to be OEM Michelin Symmetry 225-60R 16s on steel wheels.

    They were showing some cracking on sidewalls, my guess is from low pressure, but good tread. Now with 43K I am replacing them with same tires - not because of treadwear, which still has 20K left, but because of minor sidewall cracking that my state safety inspector will not accept.

    I plan to buy an extra set of steel wheels and run the old tires again next winter. New wheels run about $60 each so I'm hoping I can pick up some used ones at local junkyard.

    I read mixed reviews on the Mich. Symmetry tires on Tireracks and my tire retailer says, "we don't push these tires". From what I can tell they are decent tires, some buyers may not use them right and, of course, the retailers don't want to sell tires that are going to last you too long;-)
    BTW this car gets phenomenal milage with these tires inflated at Max. Recommended pressure: 22mpg day-to-day local driving and consistently over 26mpg on trips - God Bless Electronic Fuel Injection in these days of $1.75/gal gas!
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    For what it is, its a nice tire. Its one of the smoothest and quietest tires on the market. I believe Michelin uses a lot of the technology found in their Energy MXV4 Plus in the Symmetry to lower rolling resistance and improve fuel mileage. For cars like the GM and Town Car its the ideal tire.

    Have a look on e-Bay for used wheels off a GM or Crown Vic. You might score a deal on a nice set of alloys and you won't get dirty in the process. :)
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    eb12eb12 Member Posts: 16
    I am looking at these for a 97 Rav4,
    Any ideas would be appreciated.
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    adp3adp3 Member Posts: 446
    Hi, all: Is it just a downright stupid idea, for a driver in the SF Bay Area, to put different tires on his SUV (or AWD wagon - Pacifica, for example) for the winter months than he uses the other 9 months of the year? Maybe use a tire that gives better mileage and "every day" performance from March-November, but put some deeper tread tires on for December-February to improve performance in snow country. I know this used to be common in other parts of the world, but I've been out here so long that I don't even know if it's done any more.
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    mmullinmmullin Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the info in message 2497 regarding the Bridgestone Duelers and the Dunlop Radial Rovers for a Nissan 4x4. Considering both. Any views as to the Cooper Discoverer AT? Thanks again!
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    They're a good "value choice". I'd shop them against brands like Kelly-Springfield, General, Kumho, Toyo, etc.

    In 11/01 Consumer Reports tested LT tires. Ratings were:

    #1 - Dayton Timberline AT
    #2 - Bridgestone Dueler AT (the one I suggested is a newer version)
    #3 - Michelin XCX/APT (Sears only)
    #4 - Dunlop Rover AT
    #5 - Pirelli Scorpion AT
    #6 - The Cooper you mentioned
    #7 - Firestone Wilderness ATII
    #8 - Goodyear Wrangler ATS
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    pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    I would not put Cooper and General in the same category as Kumho, which gives you a lot more value IMO. Too bad Kumho was not in the test you cited.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    just wondering - I'm not a fan of off-brand tires, but have either of you heard on "Wanli" performance tires? I see them on ebay and ther're fairly inexpensive Z-rated, 240 treadwear, AA, etc - do I write them off the list or consider them?

    I have my wheels and tires on ebay and I'm buying a new set - tuner wheels and Z-rated 45s.
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Nope, never heard of them. Gotta put that name in the hopper and see what pops out.
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    tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    IIRC, they are a Chinese tire. Don't know much about the quality.

    There is actually a local distributor in St. Louis, FWIW. www.ztire.com

    Hope it gets you pointed in the right direction.

    TB
    google is your friend
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    boatman7boatman7 Member Posts: 7
    I would like some input on these tires. Are they any good in snow? They say M&S on the side wall but they look like all seasons to me. Any advice?
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    I just looked at Toyo's website and they have no listing for an "A12". Most of their tires start with M or T.

    Are these the OE tires on the Pathy? If so they may be tires specially produced for Nissan and are not (yet) sold in the aftermarket.

    Your supposition of them being all season tires is likely correct. But to get an idea of their winter performance you may get better info if you ask '03 Pathy owners directly. I think there is a Pathy thread in the SUV forum. Yahoo Clubs also has a Pathy club.
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    bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I'll be taking 5 passengers with me on a 500 mile round trip this weekend in our minivan. Tire pressure spec is 35psi all around, and that's where I keep it for normal use (sometimes just driver and no cargo, sometimes 2 adults and 200-400 lbs. cargo). Considering I'll have a full load, am I better off upping tire pressure a bit, dropping a bit, or leaving as is? The tires are rated to 44psi max so I assume they could handle a bit more air.
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Since it is air pressure that is supporting the weight of the vehicle (and all its contents) the more air pressure, the more weight it can carry. Higher air pressure will lower rolling resistance which will result in a cooler running tire and better fuel mileage.

    I'd be at least at 40psi. And I'd make sure I knew what the max load rating was for my tires and made sure I didn't exceed them. It'll say right on the sidewall or you can check on the tire mfr's website.
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    bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I thought air up was the way to go but wanted confirmation. I'll probably go with 40 psi. I've looked at the max load rating for the tires. Don't recall the exact numbers but it seemed pretty generous.
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    hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    when upping pressure from 1-2 passengers and no cargo to full passengers and cargo. Check your owners manual and door placard as some manufacturers are nice enough to figure out the lightly and heavily loaded pressures for you.
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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    tire question.. my honda pilot has good year 235/70r16.. i would like to put a larger tire 17 inch on my pilot.. my questions are? 1- CAN I DO THIS WITHOUT CHANGING THE UNDERNEATH. 2- WHAT SIZE 17 INCH ..3- DO I HAVE TO CHANGE THE RIMS IF I GO TO A 17 INCH..... 4-WHAT ADVANTAGES/ dis/ WILL THE LARGER TIRE GIVE ME.,, its my understanding that the mdx tire size is 235/60r17.. would this tire fit my pilots frame without changing sway bars etc.. i really dont want to start changing underneath... its more for looks..

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Yes, you can install 17" wheels & tires on your Pilot, no problem. Actually I think a 255/60-17 tire on a 17" wheel would look killer on a Pilot.

    The OE wheel is 6.5" wide but I've read that you can go to 8", maybe more, on a Pilot or MDX. I believe the bolt pattern is 5 x 114.3mm (very common).

    If you go to 17" tires you have to use 17" wheels; tire and wheel diameters must match.

    I see no problems with tires contacting suspension parts so you won't need to lift the body or anything. Its a simple bolt on.

    Bigger wheels and tires are primarily for looks. Wider tires can improve handling and steering response.

    I think Tire Rack has the Pilot in their online guides so have a look there.
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    krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    Yes, 17" tires leave 1" gap on 16" wheels. It causes tires to be flat ;-).

    Now simple math

    16 + 235 * 0.70 * 2 = 735.4 mm (total diameter of original tires in milimeters)

    new tire/wheel

    17 + 235 * 0.60 * 2 = 713.8 mm

    Difference 3% should be acceptable.

    Krzys

    PS 1" = 25.4 mm
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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    that sounds great bigger tires without the headache of replacing underneath...i will be looking around for a better rim to replace the honda accord looking rims on my pilot once i buy bigger tires... thanks krzyss, and brefraz.. have any of you guys seen a killer looking rim that will make my pilot the talk of the neighborhood. thanks...

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    The 235/70-16 has an overall diameter of 28.96 inches.

    The 235/60/17 is 28.08 inches tall.

    A full inch is NOT acceptable when factoring in things like how the speed sensor reports to the ECM (transmission shifting) and the ABS sensors to the EBCM.

    Use a 255/60-17 on an 8" wheel and you're in business - within 2/10 of an inch. Also, the Tire Rack has them in a Pirelli Scorpion Zero (V-rated, cool tire) for $121 each.
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    microrepairmicrorepair Member Posts: 508
    According to the calculator at this website,

    http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

    the tire size recommended by zueslewis has virtually the same diameter. The calculator says that when your speedometer says 60, you will actually be traveling 60.2 mph.. Can't get much closer than that going to a larger rim..
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    jc1973jc1973 Member Posts: 63
    what do u guys think of pep boys tires recently bought 4 futura 50000 mile tires for my grand am size 195 65 15 there made by cooper are these tires any good
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    camshaft1camshaft1 Member Posts: 35
    i have a 69 rs/ss camaro that i'm converting from street/strip to semi-pro touring/everyday driver. i want to put a descent wheel/tire package on the new g-machine lowered suspension. i want something that can handle high highway speeds, changing weather, good handling, but have lasting tread. i had a 95 m3 that i loved but i found myself buying tires way too often. i saw the commercial for the new mischellin(sp?) pilot all weather z-rated tire. i don't mind paying a little more for quality and performance as long as i'm not paying it again within the year or so. any ideas?
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    what does it matter, you've already BOUGHT them...

    And no, I wouldn't have recommended anything from Pep Boys.

    camshaft - right up my alley - have you measured the max width and height (tire allowance) for each wheelwell? I've done literally hundreds of high performance tire and wheel fitments. That's the place to start, the figure out what fits best based on how much you've lowered the car, whether sway bars will interfere, especially in the front, etc.

    Feel free to e-mail me - this gets a little more involved than we may want to post here.
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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    i was thinking of putting michelins ltx on my pilot..has anyone had them.. looking for feed back. is this one of the better tires to go with for my pilot.. i'm looking for a tire to give me a nice ride i'm not to concerned about taking turns at 60 m.ph. somebody point me in the right direction..

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

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    noeleonnoeleon Member Posts: 9
    Can I replace the original 195/50/16 with 205/45 or 40/16 without replacing the stock wheels. Thanks.
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