Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





American Electric Vehicles

2

Comments

  • More than the drastic economic situation I think the drastic drop in gas prices will reduce the pressure to press on with alturnitive fueled cars. If the itch goes away the want to scratch does too. But, I also think this coming administration will be much more effective than the dismal one that's on the way out. No genious thought to that one. I'd like to think that battery development will improve to assist in better results and longevity of hybrid and/or EV vehicles. One last thought. My '04 Prius cost just over 20 G's in '03 and with the tax breaks it sure was a great investment not to mention it's virtually the same car for all of seven years with only a few changes.Nice to know as an owner. Gotta love resale values too.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    it's virtually the same car for all of seven years

    Actually the Prius II is just barely 5 years old. It just seems like you have had it forever. :sick:

    The original was a lot different than the current vintage.

    I don't think you will see much going on in American made electric vehicles. The major component is now and for the future will be the battery. My bet is they will be made in China and maybe India. From what I can tell much of the Lithium comes from Bolivia. So maybe that will become the battery capitol of the World.
  • Actually your not listening. I'll say it again. The 2nd Generation Prius came out in '04 and other than minor changes (Rr camera..interior upholstery...surface change on dash) the car is identical thru 2009. The current info suggests the 2010 will still look like , be powered by the same hybrid duo & have nearly identical specs as the '04. As I count it thats 7 yrs the same car. Name me any other car that has stayed that consistant thru 7 yrs for the average buyer. ;)

    About long trips, all I can tell you is , after an 8,000 mile trip to Montana and then Atlanta, Ga I will say that the Prius was reasonably comfortable to me and my fussy wife. We know its no plush ride but, it is all we seem to demand of a mid-size car. I've heard some road noise but then I've heard worse in other cars. Pontiac has been one that seemed much worse and that was the Grand Prix.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    I guess I was thinking you were on 7 years with your Prius. Actually I bought the the 7th year Sequoia that was virtually unchanged. It may be the normal cycle for Toyota. I am not sure what the point is.

    I've heard some road noise but then I've heard worse in other cars.

    I guess it all depends on what you are willing to live with. I know if you encountered any bad weather it was stressful driving. That to me is not acceptable. I stepped out of my Sequoia into my friends new Prius and did not expect it to be noisy. They are and he did not seem to mind. So different strokes for different folks. You do have the consolation of getting close to 50 MPG and that is worth something. My son in law bought a $12k Yaris and it is just a bit noisier than the Prius. He only gets 40 MPG. Which is better than the Yamaha Motorcycle he rode to work for 3 years. So many options...

    My reason for wanting an EV is quiet peaceful ride. They don't offer that, they can keep them. I don't think that is asking too much out of vehicles that cost over $20k.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,893
    Ford Motor made electric vehicles a centerpiece of a turnaround plan presented to Congress on Tuesday, saying that it will introduce an all-electric van for fleet use in 2010 and a sedan in 2011.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10111091-54.html

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Ford is being idiotic, AS USUAL. But I guess telling the Congress (dumb clucks..!!) what they want to hear is now, at this moment, the way to go.

    Until we can develop more non-fossil fuel power generating capacity and begin ungrading the currently overloaded power distribution grid a major push to PHEV is the stuff of dreams.

    Let's go with CNG, Compressed Natural Gas, as an interim solution. Compressed and filled at home each night, "off period".
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    T Boone said it and I believe it. That we can do better in the interim with CNG than just about any other alternative.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Yes, and WE own the resource.
  • Interesting how the people & the auto industry rushed to find alturnative power sources to steer clear of oil dependancy. I too got swept into making serious choices as to my next car. That car ended up an '04 Prius. I primarily bought it for the obvious phenominal gas milage but came to learn that my Prius was alot more than just a "Gas Sipper." It was an engineering wonder to me. The special tranny, the worry free pollution, the never needing repair brakes (O.K. almost), and the durability of the car overall.
    The thing is that this past Sunday's "60 Minutes" show dealt with Saudi Arabia's determined effort to produce vast amounts of new oil and their research & development of significant negligable polluting combustion engines using gas or diesil. Their insistance is to promote oil proliferation to the world. If you saw it you knew that they're not going down without a fight and considering the vast billions they have in their coffer I'd say they have an edge. After seeing the program it impressed me that oil is not taking a backseat just yet. This show was quite enlightening. I do think electric is here to stay but oil is also staying too. Maybe it will get a better reputation in the years to come.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Maybe a win-win for both, ALL parties.

    Improved FE at the development expense of the Saudi's, lower fuel cost as a result results, worldwide oil resource lasts longer.

    Gives us, US, time to develop an interim strategy for the use of our own HUGE NG reserves, and in the longer term electric power generation capability, wind, waves, sun and nuclear.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,893
    Given the current (no pun intended) state of affairs, are EV's going to be pushed to the back burner for the time being? There's not going to be a lot of extra cash floating around right now and "expensive extras" have moved down everyone's lists for the moment.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    EV's Electric vehicles, will NEVER be viable within a 20 year old's lifetime.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,893
    Is that because of infrastructure, limitations of battery technology, consumers??

    I think it's real popular to want to "look green" at the moment and that EV's don't make as much sense at the moment as proponents think they do.

    Do you feel battery technology has gone as far as it's going to go?

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    The Dodge Circuit EV delivers all of the convenience features of a performance sports car, including premium sound system, power windows and door locks, air conditioning, speed control.

    Propelled by a completely electric ENVI drivetrain, the Dodge Circuit EV posts impressive performance numbers:

    - 0-60 mph in less than 5 seconds
    - 1/4-mile in 13 seconds
    - Top speed of more than 120 mph

    Perhaps the most impressive Dodge Circuit EV number, however, is zero. That's how much gasoline the vehicle consumes while providing exhilarating sports car performance. It's also how much tailpipe emissions are produced.

    The Dodge Circuit EV utilizes just three powertrain components. These include a 200 kW (268 horsepower) electric motor
    to drive the wheels, an advanced lithium-ion battery system to power the electric-drive motor, and a controller that manages energy flow.

    Working with the latest advanced lithium-ion battery technology, the Dodge Circuit EV has a driving range of 150 to 200 miles between charges - more than triple the average daily commute of most consumers. Recharging the vehicle is a simple one-step process: plugging into a standard 110-volt household outlet. The recharge time can be cut in half by using a typical 220-volt household appliance power outlet.

    The Dodge Circuit EV offers driving enthusiasts a performance sports car that can be driven to work every day - without consuming gasoline or producing tailpipe emissions.


    Tesla killer?

    image
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Power generation capability, distribution/grid, cost...COST.

    How long to bring enough nuclear generating capability on line to even support 5% of today's "traffic".

    Whereas there is clearly an overabundance of NG.
  • How many kilowatts to charge the batteries?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    UNKNOWN..

    Depends on the individual owner's daily drive cycle/period.
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Posts: 838
    "So after the 40 mile range of pure battery power is dissipated, can the little gas engine keep the battery charged while you're running along or do you have to stop to recharge?

    A vehicle the size of the Volt would probably be using about 20 kilo-watts if it was traveling down the highway at 80 mph. It doesn't take that big of an engine to generate 20 kW. The Volt is going to have a 1.0L engine, which acts as a generator. There are generators available today no bigger than this that can generate 20 kW. "


    Not the Volt, but how about a similar vehicle, the Extended Range Electric work truck...40 mile electric range, 400 mile range with gas... 100 kW generator, 200 kW motor. Nice that you can use the generator to power a jobsite or your home (during power failure.)

    http://www.rasertech.com/media/movies/html/e-rev_truck_c.html

    EREV ...Hummer http://www.rasertech.com/media/movies/html/fev_jan09.html

    PG&E to take delivery of 2 EREV fleet trucks to test, maybe next month.

    I like this concept. My normal commute is about 20 miles each way, 40 total. So, in theory most days I would use very little if any gas. One of their videos says normal city driving like this might use 5 tanks a year. Electricity for charging estimated $1 per day. Plus, you can drive unlimited distance using the generator.

    It really depends on how you drive...past 8 years I have averaged 17K miles a year. My old Trooper averages about 17 mpg, the new Saturn Outlook about 21. So, my consumption would be around 800-1000 gallons a year. So, even assuming gas goes back up to $4/gal fuel would cost me around $3600 year for 900 gal.

    Using 6 - 12 gallon tanks a year for normal commute would run $288, then assume for another 6000 non commute miles, trips, long detours on the way home exceeding the 40 mile range, assume average 30 mpg, another $800 @ $4 gal. Say just round up to $1200 year.

    Using these figures, I could save maybe $2500 year, $1800 perhaps at $3 a gallon. At that I possibly justify spending $5-6K more for a like vehicle with the EREV.

    We of course have to wait until (if) these are available.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    The big six will be first. I believe a small company may beat them to it. I saw this on the news the other night and the reporter even demonstrated the car.

    http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/first-aptera-electric-cars-r- oll-out-vehicle-future

    The part that I found interesting is they already have 4000 orders, it only takes a $500.00 refundable deposit, and the price is already better than what we were told GM or Nissan would offer.

    But technically I guess the EV-1 and Toyota EV Rav-4s would have been first if the public could have bought them to start with. The EV-1 was a lease only and the Rav-4 was a government test.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    But the RAV-EV was available for sale to retail customers for MY 2002 and 2003. So it counts as the first?

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    A few Ford Ranger EVs were sold in the 1998 to 2003 period also. Most were leased and recalled.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    Toyota sold well under 1000 of those RAV4-EVs before they quit trying. But a few made it out there, there's someone in my daily commute that I see regularly driving one.

    I'm not sure it's such a good idea when manufacturers plaster 'EV' in huge letters on the side of their EV models (like in the case of the RAV4-EV). That is probably not to the tastes of many who might otherwise buy one.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    I'm not sure it's such a good idea when manufacturers plaster 'EV' in huge letters on the side of their EV models (like in the case of the RAV4-EV). That is probably not to the tastes of many who might otherwise buy one.

    You could be right. But if they made it ugly like a Prius wouldn't they sell? :P It would seem that the same mind set that drives people or drove people to the first and second generation Prius would have fit the need of the people that would buy EVs. I don't care what they put on one I just want one that is priced reasonable and is a light total EV. I don't want to hear Toyota's excuses of why they "can't build one or why we wouldn't buy one. Build the sucker and see. If the little company in Vista can build one mister Yota or mister GM and build it for less than 30K then they darn well should be able to as well. I don't care what they have to do with the UAW.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Ford, Nissan and Tesla are the first to get loans
    Tom Stundza -- Purchasing, 6/24/2009 4:15:24 PM

    Ford, Nissan and Tesla Motors are the first beneficiaries of a $25 billion U.S. Department of Energy loan program to help car makers revamp factories to produce advanced-technology vehicles.

    Nissan Motor Co. was granted $1.6 billion in loans to make more than 100,000 electric cars a year at its plant in Smyrna, Tenn., by 2013. Ford Motor Co. will use $5.9 billion in loans to help retool plants in Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri and Ohio to produce 13 fuel-efficient models, including 5,000 to 10,000 electric ones a year starting in 2011.

    Tesla Motors, a California start-up that makes a $109,000 electric sports car, gained approval for a $465 million loan to develop an affordable family sedan.


    http://www.purchasing.com/article/295655-Uncle_Sam_expands_funding_of_electric_c- ars_R_D.php
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    That is just depressing. We are giving tax money to a Japanese company that is owned by the French. Couldn’t the French or Japan give Nissan the money?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    It's not a "gift" it's a LOAN......and the end result from the money will benefit us all.....it's a win-win......nothing to be depressed about.

    Nissan employs a lot of USA employees too, just like all major foreign automakers.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    I toss the BS flag. Nissan is a foreign owned company as as such deserves none of the US taxpayers money. If you want to use the US workers as an excuse give the money to the employees but not the foreign management. The US tax payer buys a lot of foreign cars so should we expect foreign tax payers to lend GM money?

    Where does it stop? The bail out to wall street was a loan. The bail out to auto manufacturers was a loan. The bail out to the banks was a loan. By the way the banking loans were restricted to domestic owned banks because even though foreign banks employ US citizens they are not domestic controlled. We owe nothing to a Japanese or French company. Never have never will.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Toss that flag all you want, but Americans will benefit from this deal. Guys like you and me and your cousin Benny and my cousin Kanji.

    And you are right - we owe them nothing. Now they owe US and will repay us, with interest.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    don't go up, or our Fed.income taxes likewise don't go up it might eventually benefit Americans overall to give to these Japanese automakers. Sort of let your mind run...ummm....free for a sec and see if you can picture it in a positive frame. :D

    "They took our jerbs!"

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    electric car sold in the U.S.A. will be a Mitsubishi
2
This discussion has been closed.