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American Electric Vehicles

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  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    Used RAV4-EVs regularly sell on eBay for more than their MSRP.

    Well, the only one on ebay right now is a completed listing. It got only one bid of $45,000 which did not make the reserve. :surprise:

    Somehow I think the seller might have worked something out with the bidder after the auction ended. :blush:

    2002 Toyota RAV4 EV
  • Yeah the one I drove was purchased for $45,000 as well. I think this is about the going rate for a decent one. Pretty good depreciation rate after 6 years :P

    Of course the RAV4-EV was not a hybrid, but a pure electric.

    The VOLT is I gather a kind of "hybrid" but the gas engine onboard only charges the battery. Have I got that right?

    So after the 40 mile range of pure battery power is dissipated, can the little gas engine keep the battery charged while you're running along or do you have to stop to recharge?

    GM is claiming the car will come to market in 2010 but car magazines are saying "no way".

    Related Story:

    VOLT Buyers Already Lining Up

    31,000 on a buyer's list is pretty good, given that the car might punch out over $35,000.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    Everyone is welcome at our weekly chats and EV's are certainly something we can chat about if the mood strikes you!

    It's Thursday and that means time again for the longest running chat here in CarSpace, the Subaru Crew! The chat opens at 8:45 pm ET and runs until 10 pm ET. I hope you're able to join us tonight for another enjoyable evening with members of the Crew!
    See you there!

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • tpetpe Posts: 2,342
    So after the 40 mile range of pure battery power is dissipated, can the little gas engine keep the battery charged while you're running along or do you have to stop to recharge?

    A vehicle the size of the Volt would probably be using about 20 kilo-watts if it was traveling down the highway at 80 mph. It doesn't take that big of an engine to generate 20 kW. The Volt is going to have a 1.0L engine, which acts as a generator. There are generators available today no bigger than this that can generate 20 kW.

    My personal opinion is that the Volt will be on the market in 2010 but not in big numbers. Maybe a couple thousand, not the 30 thousand that GM is shooting for. As far as I'm concerned that would be wise on GM's part. Allow a relatively small number of buyers to act as your beta testers for the first year or two and limit your liability.
  • Are you implying that GM would let buyers do their R&D for them?

    I'm shocked...SHOCKED! ;)

    All I can say is that this VOLT had better work good....REAL good...right out of the box or GM is going to be making teapots for the government of Turkey.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    All I can say is that this VOLT had better work good....REAL good...right out of the box or GM is going to be making teapots for the government of Turkey.

    They might not be considered for that contract if the Volt fizzles

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    Do you think that GM will build the Volt Here in the US? I know Tesla claimed they were and ended up with the MFG outside the US. I am thinking the Volt will be built in China. No evidence, just a hunch. GM has a big market in China and they need clean cars worse than we do.
  • Part of any successful EV venture is going to have to be educating the American public. Among the issues that will have to be addressed in advertising, promo pieces and in the showroom are:

    1. fear of being stranded when batteries run out

    2. questions on battery pack longevity/warranty

    3. safety in a crash

    4. rapid obsolescence and its effect on resale value.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    Americans with long memories of electric vehicles will recall the brief flowering of the Think City, a plastic-bodied Norwegian-built battery car.

    Ford bought Think’s parent company, then known as Pivco Industries, for $23 million in 1999. In a burst of optimism, Ford thought it could sell 3,500 to 5,000 vehicles a year, but the actual numbers were much lower and Ford sold out in 2003.

    The climate for electric vehicles is presumably better now, though price, range, performance and the economic downturn are still daunting obstacles to significant sales numbers.

    Looking to buck the odds, Think is back with a revamped City, though only in Europe.

    Richard Canny, the chief executive for Think, said the new City is “night and day” different from the earlier model, though both are made of recyclable plastic body panels with molded-in colors. The City is built on a new platform with a larger body, and it is fully capable of highway speeds.

    The car, which has been crash tested in Europe, is basically a two-seater, though 2+2 children’s seats are available. It can reach 68 miles an hour and has a cruising range of 100 to 110 miles, roughly double the earlier vehicle. It takes 12 hours to fully recharge the battery from a 110-volt wall outlet. It will sell for about $30,000 in Europe (the company Web site says “around $31,388”).

    The key for greater range is lithium-ion batteries, which come from two American suppliers, A123 and EnerDel (a division of Ener1). The car is also being sold with Zebra sodium-nickel-chloride batteries.


    http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/think-again-an-electric-car-makes-a-c- omeback/?hp
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    Given the costs and difficulties in turning a profit with them, does the current economic situtation put EV's on temporary hold? Or do manufacturers forge ahead and take the risks to bring EV's to reality?

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • More than the drastic economic situation I think the drastic drop in gas prices will reduce the pressure to press on with alturnitive fueled cars. If the itch goes away the want to scratch does too. But, I also think this coming administration will be much more effective than the dismal one that's on the way out. No genious thought to that one. I'd like to think that battery development will improve to assist in better results and longevity of hybrid and/or EV vehicles. One last thought. My '04 Prius cost just over 20 G's in '03 and with the tax breaks it sure was a great investment not to mention it's virtually the same car for all of seven years with only a few changes.Nice to know as an owner. Gotta love resale values too.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    it's virtually the same car for all of seven years

    Actually the Prius II is just barely 5 years old. It just seems like you have had it forever. :sick:

    The original was a lot different than the current vintage.

    I don't think you will see much going on in American made electric vehicles. The major component is now and for the future will be the battery. My bet is they will be made in China and maybe India. From what I can tell much of the Lithium comes from Bolivia. So maybe that will become the battery capitol of the World.
  • Actually your not listening. I'll say it again. The 2nd Generation Prius came out in '04 and other than minor changes (Rr camera..interior upholstery...surface change on dash) the car is identical thru 2009. The current info suggests the 2010 will still look like , be powered by the same hybrid duo & have nearly identical specs as the '04. As I count it thats 7 yrs the same car. Name me any other car that has stayed that consistant thru 7 yrs for the average buyer. ;)

    About long trips, all I can tell you is , after an 8,000 mile trip to Montana and then Atlanta, Ga I will say that the Prius was reasonably comfortable to me and my fussy wife. We know its no plush ride but, it is all we seem to demand of a mid-size car. I've heard some road noise but then I've heard worse in other cars. Pontiac has been one that seemed much worse and that was the Grand Prix.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    I guess I was thinking you were on 7 years with your Prius. Actually I bought the the 7th year Sequoia that was virtually unchanged. It may be the normal cycle for Toyota. I am not sure what the point is.

    I've heard some road noise but then I've heard worse in other cars.

    I guess it all depends on what you are willing to live with. I know if you encountered any bad weather it was stressful driving. That to me is not acceptable. I stepped out of my Sequoia into my friends new Prius and did not expect it to be noisy. They are and he did not seem to mind. So different strokes for different folks. You do have the consolation of getting close to 50 MPG and that is worth something. My son in law bought a $12k Yaris and it is just a bit noisier than the Prius. He only gets 40 MPG. Which is better than the Yamaha Motorcycle he rode to work for 3 years. So many options...

    My reason for wanting an EV is quiet peaceful ride. They don't offer that, they can keep them. I don't think that is asking too much out of vehicles that cost over $20k.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    Ford Motor made electric vehicles a centerpiece of a turnaround plan presented to Congress on Tuesday, saying that it will introduce an all-electric van for fleet use in 2010 and a sedan in 2011.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10111091-54.html

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Ford is being idiotic, AS USUAL. But I guess telling the Congress (dumb clucks..!!) what they want to hear is now, at this moment, the way to go.

    Until we can develop more non-fossil fuel power generating capacity and begin ungrading the currently overloaded power distribution grid a major push to PHEV is the stuff of dreams.

    Let's go with CNG, Compressed Natural Gas, as an interim solution. Compressed and filled at home each night, "off period".
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    T Boone said it and I believe it. That we can do better in the interim with CNG than just about any other alternative.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Yes, and WE own the resource.
  • Interesting how the people & the auto industry rushed to find alturnative power sources to steer clear of oil dependancy. I too got swept into making serious choices as to my next car. That car ended up an '04 Prius. I primarily bought it for the obvious phenominal gas milage but came to learn that my Prius was alot more than just a "Gas Sipper." It was an engineering wonder to me. The special tranny, the worry free pollution, the never needing repair brakes (O.K. almost), and the durability of the car overall.
    The thing is that this past Sunday's "60 Minutes" show dealt with Saudi Arabia's determined effort to produce vast amounts of new oil and their research & development of significant negligable polluting combustion engines using gas or diesil. Their insistance is to promote oil proliferation to the world. If you saw it you knew that they're not going down without a fight and considering the vast billions they have in their coffer I'd say they have an edge. After seeing the program it impressed me that oil is not taking a backseat just yet. This show was quite enlightening. I do think electric is here to stay but oil is also staying too. Maybe it will get a better reputation in the years to come.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Maybe a win-win for both, ALL parties.

    Improved FE at the development expense of the Saudi's, lower fuel cost as a result results, worldwide oil resource lasts longer.

    Gives us, US, time to develop an interim strategy for the use of our own HUGE NG reserves, and in the longer term electric power generation capability, wind, waves, sun and nuclear.
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