2009 Subaru Forester

tifighter

I doubt the longer 09 Forester shrunk on that measure.

Yeah, it seems odd. Seeing as they are both his measurements, you would think the methodology would be the same.

dafreako

Sad to report that I used the website link to send a comment/question about the availability of the telescoping steering wheel, and received a polite personalized response which seemed to confirm that it's only available on the XT and XT limited. The response indicated that my comments would be passed on to the manufacturer as a suggestion, so I'd definitely suggest that any of you who want a telescoping steering wheel but don't want the turbocharged engine to also send in your comments. Probably too late for '09, but maybe we can make a difference for '10 . . . .

ateixeira

Good point, Len.

ateixeira

Bummer.

Well, the wife's tall and was comfortable behind the wheel, so I guess that's OK.

h2k2f2

Every car has its shortcomings. I'm glad though that the '09 Forester uses hood struts, rather than the cheapo prop rods used by the current CR-V, RAV4, and others.

kurtamaxxxguy

the telescoping steering appears to be only on the high end models of '09 Forester and '08 Impreza. All the Outbacks for '08 have it.

ateixeira

The hood strust, the dual exhaust, and the huge moonroof are unique in this segment, AFAIK.

It also has the best visibility.

If it has the best handling, like I'm hoping, we're all over it.

wckrause

Anybody know anything about price?

I'm guessing MSRP will be higher and dealers will be expecting list price at least at first.

Anybody buying 09's yet?

kurtamaxxxguy

None I know, but local dealers are making waiting lists for those who want to be first.

On side note: an interesting chat over on the Land Rover forum suggested those folks actually like their cars to be heavy.

Would the Forester be a "better" car if it weighed closer to what the Land Rover L2 does?

ateixeira

I am ready to buy, but I'm not going to pay more to be first on the block.

When they arrive, I will get our trade appraised, and see what sort of deals they have. If the 09 is near invoice and they make a fair offer, I may buy right away.

More than likely they will low-ball me with a wholesale/auction value on our trade, so I'll go to private party sale.

For the new 09, I may go VIP for the sale. You get 2% below invoice, though it's up to dealer discretion if they accept that deal on an in-demand model. So I may have to wait a month or two until supply is plentiful.

Let's be realistic, here, though. This segment is hyper-competitive. The Rogue came in at a very low price. I don't see wait lists for any thing in this segment, no matter how good. Realistically I expect to be able to work a VIP deal within a month or two of the launch.

ateixeira

Heck no!

Weight is the enemy of performance. It hurts acceleration, handling, braking, gas mileage ... just about everything basically.

Keep in mind you're talking to a group of people that wants to justify and defend the way their trucks are built.

To them, the extra weight makes it beefier, more sturdy. In some cases, a ladder frame, huge differentials, low range gears, etc. are indeed heavy and make them more capable off road. Great for Moab.

Yet I would dispute even the beefier theory - why are there zero Land Rovers on IIHS Top Picks list for crash test safety?

Plus the LR2 is unibody (I believe) and lacks most of those things anyway. It's not really all that capable off road.

For a vehicle intended mostly for pavement use, weight is thy enemy.

Even off road, you still want it light. A heavier car will sink in soft sand, for instance.

Sturdy? Yes. Heavy? No.

I fall squarely in the opposite camp - lighter is better, at least in the context of a pavement-bound compact crossover. Without a doubt.

In fact, I was looking at the C&D comparo of this class and noted the Forester would have the advantage of being the lightest of the group.

xwesx

I am sure that hood struts feel more... upscale, but they do have their down sides. For instance, if you open a hood (or gate, for that matter) with struts at -20 or colder, they do not hold very well and you run a fairly high risk of blowing the hydraulics. I am not sure why they are not as robust to the cold as suspension struts, but once they are blown, you are back to a prop rod anyway. Yes, yes, "most people" will not have to deal with that issue, but I think a trip to Alaska or northern Canada would be a real eye-opener for folks. There are a lot of Subaru vehicles per capita....

It is change for the sake of change. *shrugs*

ateixeira

If it works for a hatch, it will work for a hood.

If anything, the hood is much lighter plus it's used far less often.

You bring up valid concerns but from a selfish stand point that will never affect us. :P

samiam_68

The 09 Forester may sell at MSRP for a week or two after hitting the dealer lots. A month or two later, you will see them selling below invoice and having incentives on top of that. The current Forester is already overpriced for what it is, and that's part of the reason sales have dropped sharply.

I remember when I bought my 04 FXT in the summer of 03, about a month after it came out, and three weeks after a raving review in C&D. I got it for straight invoice, with about 5 minutes of haggling. I still think I could have done better, but the 0-60 in 5.3 seconds clouded my better judgement. :P

xwesx

If it works for a hatch, it will work for a hood.

Yes, but not any better, which means it will be just as likely to fail.

Selfish, perhaps, if I were the only Subaru owner in a northern climate. Considering the % of vehicles Subaru sells in northern climates, I am a little surprised that they do not prepare them better for it. For example, every winter one can see "camo" VW, Audi, and other makes driving around the Fairbanks area doing "extreme cold weather" testing. I never hear about Subaru prototypes doing this. And, what's more, there is not even a dealership for VW/Audi in Fairbanks!

Good cars, don't get me wrong, but far less cold-weather durable than 10 years ago. Even so, I blew out my gate struts on the '96 Outback by using it at -40 one day. I ended up using a sawed-off hockey stick as the prop for the remaining 6 years I had it. The good part is that with the prop, I did not have to worry about when I could and could not use it!

ateixeira

The C&D test looked for compacts priced right around $25k. That seems to be the sweet spot. Well equipped, but not loaded, i.e. what most people want to buy.

For an 08, the LL Bean would be a bit above that, but it has leather and more content that the competitors in that comparo. A 2.5 X Premium falls right in that sweet spot, though.

Let's see, with auto and Premium pack it's price at $24,140 list, so it could even get a small price increase and still be in line with those competitors.

Seems like the AWP is now seperate from the Premium package, so perhaps the price will stay flat but they'll charge an extra $400 for the AWP. I'd pay that much more, it would be worth it given the size gains.

drohrer

I was waiting for my leased van to be prepped across the street from a Subaru dealer and went over to have a look.

The salesman who greeted me was pretty excited about all the new info they had received that day on the specs for the '09 Forester.

We chatted about what was and wasn't available ( Nav, MT, Telescoping steering wheel, etc.) when he mentioned that they would be shipping this fall with a diesel option. Anybody hear of it coming this soon?

Would that be the MY10 already?

It would be the just about the only one in its class, no?

Sounds to me like a subie scoop!

jdr

p0926

Selfish, perhaps, if I were the only Subaru owner in a northern climate. Considering the % of vehicles Subaru sells in northern climates, I am a little surprised that they do not prepare them better for it.

Wes- Even though Subaru's core market is the snowbelt, the avg winter temps in those areas almost never comes close to what you (in the Alaskan interior) experience for weeks at a time.

Heck, living in the desert southwest, I'd love for them to offer ventilated seats but I realize that's highly unlikely to ever happen.

-Frank

samiam_68

Correct re: C&D, however, I wonder about two issues.

First, at a $25K median price, the 08 Forester is smaller than most of the competition, therefore of lesser value. The 09 should address the size issue, but only if the price is kept the same or lowered slightly.

Second, why didn't C&D even include the Forester in the comparo?

ateixeira

I don't think one was ready. That was last month's C&D, and so far the only preview I've seen on the 2009 Forester was Edmunds'.

Even that test was done with JDM models in Japan, they even mention a 2.0l H4 and a 2.0l turbo model.

So there must still be an embargo on the 2009s from Subaru.

The comparison was fully instrumented, with all performance tests measured and reported.

2010 model in the fall? No, not possible. For it to be a 2010 it would have to come out on Jan. 1, 2009, or later. Plus there's no way they would launch a diesel here before Europe.

dream_on

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum. I am contemplating buying my first subie and I live in Anchorage Alaska where the roads are slick up to seven months per year. I`m so glad I found this forum because all the things I never would have even thought about were discussed here. I drive slow and I`m always hauling stuff around so I`m looking at the Forrester sport cause I like the bigger mirrors and visibility. Am I making a good choice? Any opinions? Thanx

Kim

ateixeira

Yes, but the 2009 adds VDC (stability control) so you may want to wait for that.

I still think the 08s are good choices, though.

xwesx

Hahaha; I see your point, Frank. Maybe I am just being overly touchy about it today because it was -54F this morning.

The idea that I might have to be restricted on when I am able to open my hood come my next Subaru purchase is just not all that appealing to me. And, since it is a "change for the sake of change" item, I find it annoying. Granted, I am one of those people who lift the hood every fill up to check fluids. It is enough work planning grocery and hauling trips around the ambient temperatures so I do not blow the gate struts!

p0926

It is enough work planning grocery and hauling trips around the ambient temperatures so I do not blow the gate struts!

Well you could just remove them for the winter and keep your hockey stick hatch-prop in the cargo area :P

-Frank

samiam_68

Selfish, perhaps, if I were the only Subaru owner in a northern climate. Considering the % of vehicles Subaru sells in northern climates, I am a little surprised that they do not prepare them better for it. For example, every winter one can see "camo" VW, Audi, and other makes driving around the Fairbanks area doing "extreme cold weather" testing. I never hear about Subaru prototypes doing this. And, what's more, there is not even a dealership for VW/Audi in Fairbanks!

Good cars, don't get me wrong, but far less cold-weather durable than 10 years ago. Even so, I blew out my gate struts on the '96 Outback by using it at -40 one day. I ended up using a sawed-off hockey stick as the prop for the remaining 6 years I had it. The good part is that with the prop, I did not have to worry about when I could and could not use it!

I agree - Subaru does virtually NO cold weather testing. The result is the idiotic climate control and very weak OEM batteries.

paisan

Odd, my car is 3 years old, spent it's first year and a half up in the mts of northern NY, and well it's starting w/o a problem.

As for cold weather testing, I've seen the STis get cold weather tested. Last weekend we had ours out in mud, snow, sleet, ice, you name it. My climate control worked fine in my 05 LGT Wagon.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

ecotrklvr

I don't get it either. It costs everyone who buys a Forester a few $$ more to have a pair of less-reliable struts than a single, 2-seconds-to-operate-once-a month prop-rod. And while seals will wear faster in cold climates, I've seen hatch struts in So Cal that needed help after 5-6 years. Face it - struts are a replacement item - prop rods last the life of the car!

What question is this the answer to?

aldehyde

The packet of pictures released by FHI include shots showing a "Engine Start/Stop" button on the dash.

Link: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-subaru-forester/
Link: http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/12/2008-subaru-forester-update-70-high.html

Another shot shows what look like HID headlamps. But these shots are all of a right-hand drive model (ergo JDM spec). Does anyone know if keyless entry/drive and HID are options for the USDM 2009 Forester?

p0926

I don't get it either. It costs everyone who buys a Forester a few $$ more to have a pair of less-reliable struts than a single, 2-seconds-to-operate-once-a month prop-rod. And while seals will wear faster in cold climates, I've seen hatch struts in So Cal that needed help after 5-6 years. Face it - struts are a replacement item - prop rods last the life of the car!

What question is this the answer to?

I think it's Subaru continuing to try and move slightly upscale. This is one of those things that is clearly a matter of preference. I've no doubt that many buyers will consider hood struts as a nice added touch. Sure they're a replacement item but power windows don't last forever either and I don't see anyone clamoring to go back to manual hand cranks :P

FYI: I had the hood struts and driver's power window both give out at the 5-year mark in a Grand Cherokee

-Frank

ecotrklvr

Ok, I sorta buy the analogy with the window cranks. Still, I open my electric windows every day, sometimes several times a day, and often while driving. The hood I open1-2 times per month, and always while standing right in front of the hood. Not much time or effort saved by the strut lift.

Now, I can see the advantage for a shorter person, or someone who needs help to hold the hood open and engage the prop rod. I know my Mom would have struggled with it. But she had a good mechanic, and never once lifted it herself anyway.

Let's hope that FHI knows what they're doing, has a source for good strut lifts, and see what happens. I like progress, too.

xwesx

Frank, that is a good idea! I will certainly keep it in mind for next winter (with my Caravan). It has more access versatility than the Outback, so I have avoided the need to open it thus far.

I really did not mind the prop until my son started walking; there were a couple times when he grabbed the stick. Luckily, I caught the gate once and it cracked me on the head the other time, but neither time did the pup get hit by it. Those gates, especially the older ones, are quite heavy and pick up a considerable amount of velocity over that short distance. Dangerous stuff for a toddler.

xwesx

I agree with that.

You know, my '69 Chevy pickup has a spring-loaded hood that opens effortlessly every time. I really appreciate the "power assist" on that hood, and the one on my '76 Ford F250, because they are much taller vehicles. The Chevy is closing in on 40 years old, though, and I can say with confidence that the springs will never be replaced. Something about struts, though, that seem so much more refined. Well, and they take up less space.

jeffmc

Push-button start & HIDs won't make it to the US... at least not right away. Didn't make it into the US version of the new Impreza either. They've had these features in Japanese Subarus for a few years now.

xwesx

This video was taken of a test mule yesterday in Fairbanks - it was about -45F at the time. It looks like a Nissan/Infiniti of some sort. Maxima maybe?

The northeast US does not count as cold weather testing, FWIW.

ateixeira

I have to disagree.

The hatch on my Forester had 2 struts and they were fine after 9 years, plus they get used much more often than the hood struts would. I don't see these wearing out any time soon, especially not for the original owner.

How often do you lift your hood? Remember, this is a Subaru.

xwesx made a good point about service in the cold, but even a DIY'er like me will wait for a warm day before I perform maintenance on the car. And more than 90% of Subaru owners probably go to the dealer anyway.

I bet most owners will only notice the struts when they pop the hood to show it to friends after they buy it. That'll get a couple of oohs and ahs, and they'll never use it again, probably.

For people like me, the hood will raise itself, cool.

And by the way, my Miata's prop rod holder, the snap that holds it in place, has broken TWICE! I'm dead serious. Flimsy old piece of plastic. First replacement I got from the junk yard. Now that one cracked. The prop rod rattles around all day long.

I doubt I'll have to replace my hood struts twice.

I also hope it doesn't rattle.

I'll take pics if anyone has doubts.

paisan

My SVX was almost 15 years old when I traded it in. The struts in the trunk and hood worked fine. The car also spent lots of time up in -20 degree weather in the adirondacks before I bought it. The hood on the SVX is also a lot heavier than any hood on any subaru now. So I don't buy the "failure rate" arguement.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

xwesx

That's great, Mike! If that experience turns out to be the case with the new struts, all the better. I am just saying that I have my doubts. If they are robust at an ambient -20F, then that should do for 95% of people 99% of the time (me included). Those are pretty good odds.

Juice, I prefer to wait for warmer weather as well, but sometimes that requires a LONG wait. I had to put the block heater in my '07 Outback at -36F on the ice pack in my driveway last winter. I was not thrilled, considering the dealership was supposed to have installed one on the car prior to my purchase. :mad:

paisan

Yeah, let's hope they are just as good as the SVX ones!

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

rsholland

I'm sure Subaru does extreme cold weather testing. I can't imagine them offering hood struts that wouldn't work in very cold weather conditions.

Bob

jeffmc

Hatch struts are a problem on my '06 Outback. On my '04, they were strong enough to assist lifting the hatch. Release the handle while lifting the hatch up and the struts would continue lifting it all the way. Very nice for folks my height (5'7") and shorter. On my '06, I have to raise the hatch all the way by hand or it won't continue up. I've cracked my head on it a couple times now because I haven't lifted it as high as it can go. It's a real pain when you've got a heavy bag of groceries (or whatever else) in each hand, and have to lift that bag and the hatch up over your head high enough that the hatch doesn't crash back down on you.

Subaru says the struts only need to be able to keep the hatch from shutting when it's about halfway down. If the struts hold it in place halfway up or higher, they're within specs, apparently. On a couple of our coldest nights so far (in the 25F range), the struts haven't been able to do that, but of course, I'm not at the dealer's service dept in the wee dark hours of the morning when it's coldest. I'll probably end up just replacing them, since I'll have a hard time demonstrating their failure to the dealer.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I'm fine with the struts if they're strong enough to do the job and last at least 5-6 years.

mrgary

My local dealer has a 2009 for show an tell. I went in today and took it for a test drive. I was a very nice ride. I belive it was an LL bean version, leather seats, heated seats, big sun roof, Nav system. The seats were very comfortable. The ride was nice and it kind of looks like a baby tribeca. I currently have a 2006 Outback but I am definatly thinking on making change. The Forester has more room for carrying taller stuff (like lcd TV or boxes). It has more width so the driver and front passanger have more arm space. It just seems to have more of everything .

h2k2f2

Where are you located?

tifighter

Compared to your Outback, is it quieter? Leg roomier (front & back)? Anything else-ier? I'd like to hear more comparisons to the current Outback...

aldehyde

Jeff, thanks for your answer. Maybe that's Toyota's influence now that they bought into Subaru -- Toyota only offer keyless drive and HID on their priciest models, and it doesn't show up on even the highest end RAV4, even though both options are available on the Rogue and Outlander. Just seems to me that Subaru could set themselves from the crowd in a non-quirky way by making these options available in the USDM.

We have a 2005 Outback now but our other car is an IS250 with keyless drive, once you get used to it it's very hard to go back.

jeffmc

"Maybe that's Toyota's influence now that they bought into Subaru"

Nah, Subaru always keeps the good stuff in Japan... been this way for years and years. On the other hand, we get a bigger engine than Japan, so there is a tradeoff.

Subaru has a lot of good technology and gadgetry, some of it just doesn't reach our shores. Frustrating. I wish for once Subaru of America would get us the best stuff that Subaru has to offer. We buy more of their most profitable vehicles than Japan does.

p0926

Subaru always keeps the good stuff in Japan

Not just Japan, seemingly everybody but the US gets the cool stuff Self-leveling suspensions, low range gears, or how about the Forester STi?

-Frank

kurtamaxxxguy

seems like Canada gets even less (they're supposedly using the XT outback next year).

paisan

HIDs are $135 on Amazon. Not even an issue in my mind.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

ateixeira

I think they must have gotten a bad batch for 2006. Some Tribeca owners reported the same problem, but I think it's been resolved.

Any how, the hood is lighter and it has 2 struts to hold it up, plus it's not like you would bang your head on it since it's over the engine bay.

ateixeira

Here's a pic of my Miata's broken prop rod latch. Remember this is the 2nd one to break. I got it from a junk yard when I was up in CT visiting the in-laws.

It broke in the same place. In the photo I've circled it in yellow.

The rod itself shakes out of the clip that is supposed to retain it, and rattles between the slip and that black thing, which adjusts the pop-up headlight motor IIRC.

Any how, even cheap old prop rods are not necessarily problem-free.

I've seen aftermarket kits for hood struts - maybe I should order that instead.