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Pontiac Bonneville
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Also on the GXP, it looks like the latest rebate list at gm.com has $3,000 for all Bonnevilles (not just SE & SLE as before).
I see a GXP as a definite option for me - a step up from where I am right now without losing anything. I have to admit that I'm also eyeing a CTS-V - the allure of that kind of power driving the correct wheels is hard to ignore.
ice
So is Chicago really a "hot bed" for Bonneville sales?
Oh, and I also thought about the Cadillac. Performance looks more exciting, but I'm still warming to the styling. I still think the Bonnie is one of the sharpest-looking big sedans on the road!
The Bonnie sticks to the road like glue in the winter. FWD, traction control, snow-rated tires... it's great stuff. I do believe that RWD with stabilitrak and decent winter boots will do the trick. The issue with the CTS-V will really be if the gobs of torque are too much to not break free in slippery conditions - a lot would depend on how response the stabilitrack is.
Anyway, I could live with a CTS-V but, like you, would prefer an AWD speciman.
ice
Leaving in the Sun belt, I'm fairly neutral towards both. But my brother from the snow belt has seen too many RWD not being able even to leave the parking lot, traction-control and all...
I think tires make all the difference in winter traction - I always use "high end" snow tires and I rotate and replace them regularly. I'm constantly amazed at how many people don't worry at all about the quality of their tires. I always have a collapsible shovel, a pair of work gloves, and an old winter jacket in my trunk for those winter days when I have to give someone a push. Doesn't happen much anymore but, when it does, it invariably involves inappropriate tires, poor tread, or an inexperienced (read: young) driver.
(well-named) ice
Just give me a fast car in straight lines and I'll have my needs met. ;-)
But RWD does have its acceleration advantages as well - especially for quick launches where the weight of the car tends to pitch toward the rear wheels. Again, perfect for those Texas country roads... ;-p
- The Acura has a better warranty, gets better mileage and has a 6 speed manual. All good things.
- Power-wise, the GXP has the edge: similar peak ponies but at lower RPM; waaaay more torque and a lot more of it down low (peaks of 300 ft-lbs @ 4000 revs vs. 238 @ 5000).
- The GXP also has a larger rear seat and trunk.
- The Acura has the nicer interior.
They have similar features but there are small differences. I can't pick a clear winner here - it'll depend on what you fancy. But the GXP lacks two features which the Acura possesses and which are currently highly desired by a good number of buyers: xenon headlights and NAV. And the TL will have a telescopic steering wheel in addition to tilt.
I can only conclude that Pontiac needs to go a little farther to put it on top of the TL - which is perhaps its biggest competitor. You want power? buy the GXP. You want a car designed for 2004? buy the TL.
I'll be looking at both.
Their data is likely flawed: as the first year depreciation they use for the GXP (roughly 35%) is bang on what they attribute to the SE, the SLE, and the SSEi. But, in fairness, GM's done little to promote the Bonneville and make it a desireable car - either new or used - and that's undoubtedly hurt resale value. I've got to believe, though, that the restyled and up-powered GXP will be more desireable than that and its resale will hold better. If Pontiac addresses the interior, NAV, and xenon lights for 2005, I can only see further improvements in that regard.
I somehow suspect that the depreciation is pegged to previous models.
I can't imagine I would need to have it in a car.
I know how to use maps and know where I'm going otherwise...
I get the impression that some think it's necessary for everyone else to pay for in a model because they personally want the NAV for whatever. So I'm seriously asking someone to explain if I'm wrong in my impressions...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The GXP looks to me like a winner from any angle! I wonder if the rear seat has more headroom than last year's models equipped with leather seating. When they brought the seats out of the Aurora they didn't compensate for the lower roofline in the rear compartment of the Bonneville. I can't fit my teenage son back there in an 03.
I agree on the NAV - could be fun but also distracting for driver and definitely unnecessary for a MAN who can read a map!
But in this category the consumers expect some "must-have", like the Xenon lights. The NAV is a big flop in the US, nobody orders them: no wonder, for $2000 one buys 100 US maps or 10 portable GPS receivers. ;-)
ice
Also, here are some decent GXP links:
A a great link to some gorgeous, large, and decent-quality pix of the GXP: Maximum-cars.com (the same site's link to the Acura TL here: Acura TL
a short Bonneville pdf brochure (love those flangeless GXP wheels!): Bonneville brochure
ice
just left my Pontiac Dealership( Northwestern New Jersey) with my wifes 2003 Grand-Prix GT- (Routine Service ETC)- stopped
by the showroom for a 2004 Bonneville Brochure- asked when could I do a test drive with the GXP- the GXP was not available yet, was told not to expect the car in until the end of April!
I'm on the "PLEASE CALL ME WHEN THE CAR ARRIVES LIST!!!!"
I guess the deeper (numerically higher) final drive is likely to blame, especially for the highway number. (The ’04 Caddy SLS is 18 / 26.)
5- (or even 6-) speed trans would likely help here. I am still a bit surprised with the wide spread of ratios in that GM 4-speed automatic.
I wonder how easy it will be to launch without smoking the front tires. (Traction control off.)
- Ray
Still expecting to drive one when they are available . . .
I note, btw, that CR hasn't actually tested a Bonnie for four years (Feb. 2000) - it was an SE - and they still use that summary in their '04 car issue.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not making excuses for the Bonnie - it has a number of "issues" but you have to read this year's CR. For the MY 2000, it reports the following being negative: electrical (could this be LEDs dying?), suspension (could be the vibration that many sense at 70 mph), body/integrity (rattles?), pwr equipment (windows dying?), body hardware (?).
My own sample of one contradicts these findings and is hardly statistically significant. Still, I wonder if the Bonneville owners who do respond to the CR survey are over-represented by those who have an axe to grind. I just find it interesting that a car that sells as poorly as the Bonneville (what, 25k a year?), still has enough '03 MY owners to meet CR's 100 response minimum to list a reliability history for that model year.
And yet CR had insufficient responses from owners of even bigger sellers: Chrysler Concorde, Chrysler Sebring, Lincoln LS, Pontiac Sunfire, Mitsubishi Galant, Dodge Stratus, Dodge Intrepid, Olds Alero, Dodge Neon, Chevrolet Cavalier (all outsold the Bonnie last year - most three to four times as much and ten times as much in the case of the Cavalier!) for CR to post a rating.
Perhaps just as interesting, CR was able to get sufficient responses from owners of low volume MY 2003 sellers like the Toyota Prius, Audi A6, Saab 9-5 and 9-3, Infiniti I-35, BMW 7 series, Jaguar S-Type, Lexus LS 430, and the Buick Regal (almost on par with the Bonneville in terms of sales last year) to post reliability histories for the 2003 MY for those cars.
Understand, as well, how CR's ratings work: it only takes 9.3% of this small sample reporting a problem to get a black half-circle; 14.8% or more nets the car a full black circle. CR doesn't publish its sample size for individual cars.
I don't want to dismiss the findings but I do find it all a little curious. However, since I have long viewed CR's survey as less-than-scientific, I find that I cannot rely on their conclusions. That's unfortunate given the effort they put into this entire affair.
ice
My one experience with Maaco is about 20 years old so likely doesn't count any more. But I've seen a few of their recent paint jobs and they don't get in the door and trunk sills, under the hood, etc. IMHO, this is absolutely essential for any colour change - and especially so for an abrupt one. Perhaps Maaco will do it at an extra charge and the jobs I've seen are because the owners weren't willing to shell out the bucks.
OTOH, if you're going to stick with dark cherry, I'm sure anybody will do. My instincts, though, would still lead me to a local, quality shop with a good reputation. After all, it's really hard to recover a car from a botched job or poor quality paint. Expect to pay about $3-4k for the job - a little less if you stick with dark cherry.
I suspect this isn't what you wanted to hear.
hitting it etc- but overall its a good strong running car with all the bells and whistles except the Supercharged engine and Perform ride/Touring Ride buttons.
Thanks for the info.
members on Bonneville Club.com that the 1997 40th Anniversary was not exclusive to Dark Cherry-It came in a variety of colors- Black, Silver etc-not just Dark Cherry.
As a matter of fact, Prestige Motors in Upstate New York was selling a Silver 40th Anniversary SSE Edition a while ago.
Another couple of options:
1. Take what you would've spent on a decent paint job, add it to what you could get on your '98 and look for a decent '99 or '00 which is already white and in decent shape.
2. Get the Maaco job but keep it the same colour (it is a nice colour!) - but don't let them skimp on the surface prep work and masking (those are their big weaknesses - them and that Scheib guy). If Maaco paint jobs turn out well initially, they usually don't look all that great beyond a year or two. So, plan to sell/trade it before then.
My $0.02
*check out the 1958 BLACK BONNEVILLE, with 9,697 miles on her, for sale on Ebay right now- its up to $32,200.00 and the RESERVE IS STILL NOT MET!!!) Beautiful pictures!!!
IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED-YOU GOT 2DAYS, 2 HOURS TO BID!!!!!
Check out this one: '65 Bonneville CV. I'm mighty tempted as the '65 Bonnie is one of my faves. But "90% restored" 9 years and 20k miles ago means $$$ and Calif. is a long way for me to go kick tires...
My all time favorite classic is the 59 CADDY!!!
LOVE THOSE FINS!!!!!!!
Owned a black 59 around 1974/1975- wish I still had the car now.
At the end of the day, Nav systems aren't all that used by most drivers (plus the Bonnie has an available OnStar service that will provide directions) and Xenons are nice-to-haves but the Bonnie's headlights are quite good. It's going to come down to where your priorities are - and, for some, a sporty, refined-looking V8-powered car is going to be attractive enough to overlook the shortcomings you mention.
I've personally decided to hold off until the '05 model - in the hope that Pontiac decides to upgrade the Bonnie's interior. After all, if I'm going to change, I want something a little different.
So like Ice said, the GXP does have the 4.6 Northstar, looks very sweet and is a pretty large and comfortable car. Most of the competition does not offer a V8. Onstar can be pretty cool. Exclusivity is a consideration since only about 4000 GXP's will be produced this year and I would imagine that number will remain about the same in subsequent model years.
Incentives could be another factor as you mentioned. I believe you there is a $3000 rebate or you could chose 0% financing for 60 months.
In the end you should go drive all of the cars you are considering and buy what suits your needs and likes best. There are many great vehicles in this price range and each one has their own unique personality. The GXP most likely has the edge in power and exterior styling. The interior is not as nice as many others, its a trade off.
As far as the interior being updated for 05 I very much doubt that any upgrades will be seen. The Bonneville most likely will end production by the end of 2006.
No other car in its price range offers one.
As a current Bonnie owner, it pains me to say that this statement is about to no longer be true. The 300C offers a Hemi with 340 HP and 390 torque, at $3K less ($32,000).