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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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Other than that, it's a toss up, in theory at least, the 1998 should have a higher resale value (all options being equal, which in that car was anything but assured).
Let us know what you do.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Personally, I wouldn’t touch an extended warranty with a ten foot pole. My advice; save your money, find a good local mechanic and enjoy your new ride. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
However, after hearing from a friend that his E420 transmission replacement would have cost him over $5,000 had it not been covered by a 7 year 100k mile extended warranty (it occurred around 75k miles), perhaps it's worth considering in this case. My concern with aftermarket warranties is the quality of the company behind them. I'd hate to find out that they would require you to go to Ralph's garage to get that $5,000 transmission replacement done for $3,000.
If you are concerned about expensive maintenance, I'd suggest you consider the value of the MB Starmark program. It's usually good to 100K. After that you are on your own (as I remember).
Otherwise the 'put the money in the bank and pray' strategy is a good choice.
Wow, what an eye opener; the resale of Benzes have really taken a dive!
If it makes you feel any better, check out the resale values of BMW 745i's or S classes.
I was working for MB-USA back in 1995 when the new W210 model that you now have came out, I was totally impressed by the car then, and continue to be to this day.
Keep us posted.
Best Regards,
Shipo
On the upside, there is no guarantee that your I6 will need a head gasket; only a percentage of them ever get there. And any E-class is a fine ride.. Enjoy it..!!
Re: the extended warranty discussion; my 96 had over 3 years of warranty including the 1-year Starmark and on the 2001, I bought an additional 2 years (almost 4 years total) of Starmark to ensure that I get coverage up to the 100K mark. Well worth the $1200, since repairs on my 96 under warranty would have cost me over $2K. I would avoid the after market extended warranties; haven't heard much good news on them..
The more I read the more worried I get here, it seems a lot of problems mech. and otherwise are being brought up continually here. Did I pick a bad time to get into my 1st Mercedes? Would the 04 or 05 be the better buy reliability wise.
I first thought, that of course people don’t really post that quickly if they are generally happy with their E's but when someone has a problem they are quicker to post - is it optimism for me to think that the complaints are a small minority of the overall ownership? Or should I just pass and wait until Mercedes clears up these perceived/actual problems? Any info appreciated..
grrr
I'd suggest that you look for data sources that do present statistical samples before abandoning any vehicle in which you are interested. Maybe they will agree with what you are seeing in the forums or maybe they won't, but my thought is that you owe it to yourself to include such data in your research.
I own a 1999 300M from the universally reviled quality/reliability-wise Chrysler Corp. I broke all my rules when buying this car:
Never buy a first model year vehicle, especially domestic!
Never buy a domestic!
Never buy a Chrysler!
Unfortunately, my emotional side got the better of me as I was totally taken by the styling, performance, ride and utility of this car. Ok, mostly the styling...
Anyway, other than two first model year, warranty replaced parts, this car has been wonderfully reliable (and fun, economical and did I mention great looking?). My point is (I think), you are playing the odds. If you buy a MB, there is a greater chance you will get a lemon than if you had purchased from Lexus. It doesn't mean that you won't get a lemon from either brand ( a gentleman I work with had a major problem with his Lexus and was none too pleased with the way he was treated), just the odds are greater based on Consumer Reports, JD Power etc that the MB may be less reliable. Do as much research as you can and decide. Any way you look at it, you're taking a chance.
I personally think the E is a beautiful car and it is on my list. My M only has 62,000 miles, but after having praised it so, I'm not sure I want to keep it much beyond 70,000 miles. I mean, Chrysler does have a reputation... ;-)
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If you buy new, within the first year in the US (4 years in Canada), you may purchase up to 4 years of an extended warranty. The price is negotiable and can actually be bought from another dealer at a discount. There was a discussion on this point in this forum about a year ago. There is at least one dealer on the west coast who will sell this 4 year extended warranty at a $4-600 discount. Do a search on this discussion to find the details.
For those considering other warranties, MB has NO deductible at all. Every trip to the dealer under warranty is FREE..! And if your dealer is a good one, a free car wash too.
You can also look for information from JD Powers, Consumer Reports and others.
Hope this helps.
Second is, I don't understand why the millions of Explorers, Jeeps, Hummers, Escalades can avoid being treated as cars when they have passenger car plates on them. If the owners/manufacturers want to avoid the mpg requirements, then they should be FORCED to register them as commercial vehicles (the trucks that they are) and pay the much higher annual licensing fees (at least they are much higher in MA). If they insist on registering them as passenger cars, then they should pay the gas guzzler taxes EVERY YEAR!
When you drove the CDI, did you drive it far enought to get a feel for the fuel mileage?
On the one hnad, thank the petroleum lobby for delaying the adoption of low sulfer diesel requirements in the US. As if they aren't making enough money with $43/barrel oil prices, they complained that it would be too costly to do in the US what European countries did nearly a decade ago.
But even without low sulpher diesel available in the US, the CDI gets roughly 2-3 times the fuel efficiency of the average soccer mom SUV. I agree completely that SUV's (and pick-ups) should fall under the same standards as passenger vehicles. And if they did, the $2,000 to $3,000 gas guzzler tax would result in market forces causing improved fuel economy (and/or a few less SUV purchasers by those who think "off road" means your driveway). If a 4,000 lb E320 CDI can manage 36 mpg on the highway and go 0-60 in 6.8 seconds, there is no reason a 4,700 lb Volvo XC90 (the soccer mom SUV of choice in my area) can't do better than 14-18 mpg with a 0-60 time about 2 seconds behind the Mercedes.
Every once in a while the radio/nav will display a wrong screen on start up (CD track # screen, while playing satellite radio) or some other stupid "patented" MB obtuse electronic programming error, but the car is built to last 20 years, built like a bank vault and is deathly quiet. There has been no change in the ride charactaristics since the day it rolled off the dealer's lot. You can't say that about any American or Japanese car, although there are OTHER good things to say about them too.
The '03s had a few teething problems, which for the most part have been eliminated in the '04s. This is probably the 1st MB in which MB tried to take all of their build skills & marry them to incredible styling and cutting edge electronics. NO Lexus has this E's style, although they do have better designed consumer electronics. They don't have the MBs bank vault quality, but the do have its attention to detail/quality of materials.
Finally, no other Luxury car has that certain elusive MB "Luxury car status". That takes time, not just quality. The Lexus's are great cars, but no matter what, they don't have that Tri-Star on the hood... thats not to say that in time, they may not achieve that "Benz Status", but there IS a difference, real or imagined.
Has anyone else had this problem, and is there an easy cure?
Jack
I had the (stupid) wire loom replacement because the engine harness wiring had an environmental "time-out" and turned to junk to the tune of $1200 but everything else has been mild and routine.
This has been my fourth MBZ ( 1983 300D, 1985 300D, 1992 190E and this). I worry about it finally wearing out in the not too distant future. I know I'm in California and I know some last many hundreds -- but I think there could be legitimacy to my worry.
I don't like the 1996 to 2002 style E-Class even a little bit, but the new (2003 - 2005) are incredible. I drove an E500 at the Lexus Taste of Luxury soiree and I was very impressed. I don't know if the quality and attention to detail is as good as the older products and my mechanic as well as some of these posts give me pause. I guess time will tell. I hope so. I'd like to set my sights on an '04 in a couple years. Cheers.
E350: 3.5 Liter V6 with 272PS from December 2004
E280 CDI: 190 PS 3.0 Liter V6-CDI by June 2005
E280: V6 with 231 PS 2.8 Liter June 2005
E400 CDI: V8 with 300 PS by September 2005
E320 CDI 4matic: V6-CDI 3.0 Liter 231 PS by
September 2005
landinggear - I think you can prepay for up to 3 nav updates through MB (at a discount) or pay as you go. Let's hope the next dvd has much more detail as the current version is junk compared to my Pacifica's fantastic nav!
There are two maintenances that you need to do: Flexible Service A and Flexible Service B...
Flex A:
REPLACE: oil, oil-filter, and dust filter;
CHECK or INSPECT: Brakes, fluids, all lamps, seat belts, etc.
Flex B:
REPLACE: oil, oil-filter, and dust filter, wipers, rotate tires, lubricate throttle linkage.
CHECK or INSPECT: Brakes, fluids, all lamps, seat belts, axle ball joings, poly-v-belt.
Flex A: Every 12,000 miles; B: 24,000 Miles.
WELL: There is a big difference between REPLACING and CHECKING. Example: They will check your brakes, but will pay for brake replacement (Pads/rotors = $500.00 or so).
Free Maintenance seems to be a bit more than an oil-change. If you plan to keep your car for longer than four years, if you get an oil-change at a local, reliable, MB mechanic, you will probably end up doing much better than relying on the MB Service Station. Hopefully you can build a good customer relationship with your local mechanic.
The next time you are at the MB Dealership, goto the service bay and ask how much is Flex A and Flex B service. Guessing it should be around 750.00. So in four years, that would be 1500.00.
Then, if this is a new purchase, invest 15 minutes at mechanic and ask him how much would it be if you brought your new car here for service...
Just a thought.
Just my .02, Mark156
I have a 2001 LS430 and a 2003 ML350. I love the LS430, and my wife loves the ML350 (her car). I have test driven the E-classes many times as well. Hands down the LS430 is the more "solid" car, with tomb-like quietness and unbeatable reliability. You probably don't believe Consumer Reports, but JD Power also rates Lexus as king of the Large and Mid-size Luxury cars with respect to quality. Just check in at some of the Lexus web-sites like clublexus and you realize that they are complaining about almost nothing as compared to Merc owners.
Agree, Mercs are very attractive, but Lexus is the quality king and reliability King. Why do you think Lexus is #1 in luxury car sales.
Fred
Unfortunately, "tomb like" also describes Lexus in terms driving dynamics. At least for anyone that defines driving dynamics as something other than setting the cruise control on a straight stretch of highway.
I have been a frequent passenger passenger in various LS's as well as SC430's and GS's. Recently, I considered and test drove the GS430 as a sedan replacement. Granted, BMW and Mercedes could learn a few things from Lexus in terms of reliability. However, after riding in and test driving various Lexus models since they first arrived in the US 15 years ago, I am convinced that Lexus' "passionate pursuit" is to build the perfect Buick. The SC430 handles more like an overweight sedan than a 2+2 roadster. The GS430 handles more like a Toyota Avalon than the BMW 5 series it claims to compete with.
I also seriously considered the 2005 E320 CDI and, although I didn't buy it, it's a sad commentary that I found the most "frugal" Mercedes 30+ mpg diesel a hell of a lot more fun to drive, with crisper handling and steering, than the most "sporty" vehicles in the entire Lexus line-up.
To each there own. Maybe if I was indeed "dead", I would would want to be driven to the cemetary in a Lexus hearse. But in the meantime, "tomb like" isn't an attribute I am looking for in a premium vehicle that I want to enjoy DRIVING every day.
Mercedes has abandoned their original goal of safety and tank-like reliability in favor of new electronic gadgets and features, which is why their reliability is so poor.
Personally, when I spend $50 K on a car I don't want it i n the shop much. Just my opinions, but don't you wonder why Lexus has over-taken Mercedes in sales so quickly?
Fred
I really liked the way the E-class drove and felt but realized that I didn't want to deal with all the hassles that I was reading about Plus had some friends who were sick of their second class treatment at their Mercedes dealers when scheduling service, etc. I realized in evaluating everything that I would value the reliability and quality advantage more than the driving experience when the car was running 100%.
I do enjoy seeing the E-class and may one day be into a Mercedes if they can improve their product quality and reliability back to its historic levels. I had always expected myself to be owning one someday.
I enjoy my LS and don't regret for one single minute my choice and look forward to having it in my hands to drive versus becoming a frequent visitor for unscheduled service at the dealer.
Just my 2 cents worth.
My gripe about Lexus is mostly a personal one. I realize that the majority of Lexus buyers can't tell that much of a difference between an LS and an E-class (or better yet, 5-series) in terms of how they drive. And if I couldn't I wouldn't find the LS as objectionable. I know this sounds harsh, but other than sound insulation and a fantastic looking interior, there really isn't that much of a difference in the way a $18k Toyota Camry and a $60k Lexus LS430 drive. And if you disect the real ground up engineering behind the cars, you will see that there really isn't much of a difference.
I agree that I wouldn't want to buy a $50k-$70k sedan (or $60k fun car), only to have reliability headaches. On the other hand, I don't think Mercedes E-classes or BMW 5-series are as bad as you think. Lexus has yet to dethrone the 530i as Consumer Reports highest rated car of all time.
So if minimizing maintenance is your highest priority, driving dynamics be damned, Lexus is a good choice. But I can't pay that steep of a price, any more than I would trade in my wool suits for polyester ones, just because the latter require less maintenance that the former. Lexus just doesn't feel good to me and, in spite of their ads, I have yet to locate any "passion" in the car, at least not with the engine running.
Lexus as a polyester suit, now that's just funny.
I am very passionate about my car, probably as much as you are. I certainly would not imply that Merc owners are not sophisticated people, because they aren't that reliable. According to CR, a 6 month old 7-series has more reliability problems than a 5 year old LS430...now that's just crazy.
I like Mercedes a lot, but do you really think that only you can determine the driving difference...essentially you are implying that most Americans are pretty unsophisticated, as Lexus is by far and away the #1 Luxury seller.
Polyester...yeesh, you need some perspective.
Fred