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Compact Pickup Comparison: Frontier, Ranger, Tacoma, S10, Dakota, B-Series, & Hombre
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I allowed that you, with your value system, would never buy a Tacoma simply for better reliability. I said this about three or four times. However, I would, and that's the difference between you and I. I also never made any qualms about my truck being cheaper than a comparable ranger as they usually are not.
Barlitz, no I was not looking for a supercharger. Someone else was. I just stepped in when someone misquoted the warranty on the thing. Thanks for the Ebay price, though.
Allknowing... a typical Toyota answer.. Yawn...
better go to the thousands of Ranger sites around the net with folks posting mileage as high as 300K... But, in your mind, Fords don't make it to even 100K....
Please, explain to me how a supercharger makes a truck better? Does it help in offroading? hauling? And for the price tag of 3K installed, why? Any forced induction engine will have a shorter lifespan. Oh, I forgot its a Toyota, they last 1 Gagillion miles with no oil change or tune ups.... LOL.....
Unless you want a true 4 door, Ranger is the best.
It is used not just by Toyota. Check out the Ford Lightning=Ford + Truck + Supercharger.
I have worked on several imports, European and Asian and prefer most American made vehicles for overall ability to work on and reliability of components. I replaced a clutch in a Honda with only only 115K on it(talk about a pain). My wife's Shadow has 130K on it and the clutch is in great shape. It has the smallest engine available and still has more power than a Saturn, Nissan and various other comparable vehicles I am acquainted with. It has a lot of virtues, but it is not perfect, no vehicle is. We have a lot of farmers/ranchers around here and they mainly drive Fords or Chevies. The quality is a factor, but there are many other factors. The main plus to any make is the dealerships in the area. Poor dealers are the bane of most manufacturers.
105 of 110 mod by superjim2000 Jan 01, 2001 (07:34 am)
You put way too many "ifs" in there, if I had a million dollars I wouldnt be working, hows that?
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Uhhhh, I think you gots me confused with somebody else??????
Oh and the new ranger hood looks killer also.
please excuse all others as well
These are the first two people I have heard that like the new grill on the 01 Tacoma. On other internet sites its taking a beating. I figure Toyota will change it within 2 years. Sales will drop because of this grill believe me.
Anyone heard anything about the new Offroad pkg Ford is going to offer on the new Ranger?
And, the new S-10 for 2002, will be a Ranger/Toyota/Nissan killer. Its going to have a straight 6 that is going to have more HP and Torque than some small V8's! I keep trying to find spy photos but no luck yet, just plenty of stories.
While up on MT Hood I backed into a rock! damit! dented my bumper in, no damage to the truck bed. On my day off I will be hunting the junk yards for a 1998 Ranger bumper in black :-(...
I think that if they were really keeping quiet they wouldn't keep at the top in satisfaction by Consumer Reports, J. D. Powers, and most other auto publications. The Tacoma's gasket problem, for example, was handled way beyond what most owners expected and Toyota, as a result, retained it's satisfied customers. My experience with Ford is that they're going out of their way to satisfy their customers too, however, the amount of recalls are a real pain in the A--. Please explain to us all the different rules that Toyota and Nissan are under? If this is true I'd be interested.
Steve234, "Toyota and Nissan have a reputation for keeping quiet about their recalls." Because you can't find many recalls for Toyota or Nissan, doesn't mean there is some conspiracy to hide or bury the problems. The reason you don't hear much about Toyota/Nissan problems is because there aren't many. When there is a problem, like with the '95-96 Tacoma head gasket, they are quick to fix it and fix it CORRECTLY.
115K miles is a common mileage to replace a clutch, especially if you take into consideration the respective owner's driving habits. It is generally a good habit to maintain a car vs. waiting until it breaks and then fixing it. To say that your wife's shadow hasn't needed a clutch in 130K miles means nothing. It could go at 131K miles. You should replace it now.
And I should base my vehicle purchase on whatever makes my mechanic's job a little easier? "There are no perfect vehicles out there, so let's just all drive American cars." It is generally easier to draw conclusions than to actually research and to be objective. If there are no perfect vehicles out there, then what is the Honda Accord? Let's also not overlook the Nissan Maxima, Honda Civic, Toyota Camry, Corolla, Landcruiser, Lexus LS 430, and the list goes on and on. And how about my '00 Tacoma? One word--perfect. There is no perfect line of cars or trucks out there, but when you approach 95-99% reliability for a model line, that's about as close as you're going to get.
I'm assuming that the real reason behind your comments was that you've personally never experienced a perfect car or truck, and it is nearly impossible for you to fathom the idea of there existing such a thing. Many people have.
Back in the 1920's, it was a common sight to see the menfolk, every Saturday and Sunday, out working on their vehicles. And when it came time to buy a new car, they stuck with the same brand because they were very familiar with how to fix it. This tendency still burns bright today.
Just test drove a black Tacoma-S. Ummmm, well, yes it is better than S10 Xtreme 4.3, sorry S10 lovers but this rice burner spanks big time.
Webbd - Don't believe everything you read in Consumer's...I prefer the 25,000 mi truck tests in
Four Wheeler mag. If lemons are evident, they will ripen by that time.
ALSO YOU FORGOT TO MENTION (BEST SPORTS CARS) the
1972 Ferrari Daytona Spyder with Chain driven camshafts, V12, 6 webers, 180 mph top speed, wooden steering wheel, wire wheels, Learjet 8 track player......also Ferrari 360 Modena is quicker to 60 (3.9 sec) than your 550 Maranello
regards....
the Babyboomer
It seems to me that quite the opposite is true that the Ford SOHC 4L is more efficient than the Toyota 3.4L. (while the 3.4L is more efficient than the OHV 4L)
It seems to me that some people have been taken in by the car rags and their COMPLETELY, ABSOLUTELY, USELESS measure of hp/L.
It's about as useful as tire width vs. steering wheel diamater.
My personal opinion of what little advantage that the asian manufacturers have is that being relatively new to the market, they have better control of the dealers. Many of the domestic dealers are operating under francises from just before or after WWII. These give very little quality control over service departments. That is why the main importance in buying a vehicle is to find the most reliable dealership in your area.
As far as working on vehicles, I like the ability to work on my own vehicles when I have the time. I do not like having to use special tools or being told that only a dealership can do the repairs. I see more of this with imports than american cars. Since I also have a lazy streak, I also am very careful of my choice of vehicles. All of my vehicles are carefully chosen for my demands. I can recall only one new vehicle that I have owned that did not last over 100k before I decided to get a new model. The problems with that one vehicle was a matter of bad luck, not the car.
As for changing the clutch out. A clutch is not like a timing belt. Any decent driver can tell when a clutch needs replacement. With that logic, you would replace tires at 40k miles regardless of tread. As long as the plate and bearing are good, I will leave well enough alone.
Oh, BTW the reason why most countries use Land Cruisers for the military is that there is no other competition other that Land Rover. The U.S. uses dedicated military vehicles. Th LC is designed to fit a limited market. A military LC is a lot cheaper than a LR or a Hummer.
For those of us who may be mechanically-challenged, having our clutches replaced or auto. transmissions rebuilt at 120K-150K makes good sense as we are not able to discern the exact moment in time that those systems are going to need replacement. We'll probably only find out in some dark parking lot on a rainy night.
The reason foreign militaries and army groups use the Landcruiser over the Land Rover or Hummer has everything to do with reliability. Have you ever seen the repair sheet on a Hummer or a Land Rover? How about the durability of the GM engines in both of these? No one in his right mind would attempt to travel into the Sahara or the Himalayan jungle with either the Hummer or Land Rover. Neither has the off-road prowress (the hummer's too large for certain situations and is better at bobbing across the desert or being shot at, and the Land Rover is better at driving around a mall parking lot). The fact that the Landcruiser is the cheapest of the three is icing on the cake for these people.
Four years in Air Force Intelligence, I learned that a lot of U.S. equipment is poorly built and nowhere near being the best on the market.
They draw a random sample of owners, which comprise of only a fraction of 1% of the vehicles sold.
Then, they rely on statistics, which I'm sure you know can be right on the money or completely wrong.
Hopefully you changed fields.I have been in DOD for the past 25 years,and i can tell you that we have some of the best military equipment in the world.It has to be maintained.Your comment about the sheet on a Hummer is an indication of the units lack of preventive maintenance.True,the Hummer is a large vehicle for some situations,but,it does offer quite a few capabilities,as well as being able to stop some bullets.Bttom line is if you went to war,would you want to be in our equipment or someone else's.I say ours.
Sorry to here about that rock vince8. I guess instead of off-roading you should be moving houses or pulling horse trailers. with all that hp\torque you have. by the way i did mention my 01' problems the starter and the stabalizer bar bolt coming loose while off-roading(going around all rocks of course)
just a little hummor vince i know how it feels its sucks and it makes you sick good luck fixing no hard feeling.
webbed i dont exactly know if your head gasket recall dates are completely accurate. my uncles 93' was recalled for the problem also.
J.D. Powers, on the other hand, sampled over 28,000 owners to get their reliability rankings. In the Presidential race, it takes only 1500 respondents to get +/- 3% accuracy on 6-8 candidates. 28,000 owners is more than enough to get an accurate picture on around 125-150 model vehicles.
Gooba, most U.S. built military equipment like aircraft (F-15), tanks (M-1), subs (Ohio Class) and troops (Seals, Marine Recon., 82nd Airborne), are far superior to anything China, Russia, North Korea, or Iraq can field. To say that the equipment must be maintained is superfluous. All mechanical/human equipment require maintenance.
But, when it comes to off-road vehicles, specifically 4x4 small-party vehicles, the Landcruiser is the superior 4x4 when compared to the Hummer and the Land Rover. As I stated, the Hummer is a great vehicle for being shot at as it overs good protection from assault rifle fire. It also possesses great ground clearance and can go over just about any obstacle. But if I had to be dropped in the middle of nowhere, and given the choice of the three vehicles above, I'd take the Landcruiser in a heartbeat. My life would be more important to me than my support of AM General.
Madhatr880, the only recall issued for 1993 Toyota Trucks (according to NHTSA.com) was a "INTERIOR SYSTEMS:ACTIVE SEAT AND SHOULDER BELTS AND BELT ANCHOR," which affected 3,655 vehicles. The 1993 T100 had the 3.0L V-6, not the 3.4L V-6 that came out in 1995. This is not to say that your uncle's engine didn't have a recall on it. I have tried several recall sites, and haven't found anything yet (alldata.com and toyota), but I will keep looking. Maybe this is part of that conspiracy, which Steve234 was referring to.
I never said that there is a conspiracy, only practical differences that keep records from being easily comparable. The lack of a recall on the head gasket is a good example. This is why the J D Powers and CR evaluations are not much good. Information based on limited data is not always reliable. Look at the Orange Bowl. The coaches poll and the writers poll had Miami #2. The BCS point system had FSU as #2. Then the odds makers had FSU favored by over 10 points against OU. FSU did not even score a single point. I have dealt with the media and government for a long time. You can make the statistics say just about anything, just pick and choose which information to base it on.
There's also a huge difference on people's opinions about what constitutes reliability. It's a far cry from "who did you vote for".
J.D. Powers might be able to identify a major and far-reaching problem in a particular model. But, beyond that it's unreliable.
They use terms, such as special service campaign, to deal with defective parts (like the head gasket problem).
They also tend not to use the TSB system. I assume they have some other way for service departments to communicate with each other.
Ford goes the other route, which is why the numbers aren't comparable. As far as I know, there isn't any public source for Toyota's internal information.
But, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that Toyotas are unreliable or that Toyota doesn't often go out of their way to fix a problem and make the customer happy or that Toyota is practicing unfair business policies.
I'm just saying that Toyota banks on reliability and charges a premium, which Toyota buyers are happy to pay. The public disclosure of these problems would tarnish their reputation and affect their bottom line (as it would for all manufacturers). It's just completely silly and naive to say that "Well, it's a Toyota, so it will never break."
I find it somewhat comical (not for the owner but the responses) when someone posts a problem with a Toyota and they get responses that state "Well, that shouldn't happen." You don't see responses like that about other makes.
Yeah, and another dumb move by another Toyota Tacoma fan... go OVER the object with your diff, real smart(tacomasrock), you can tell who offroads and who doesn't, and its not the Toyota crowd.
I dented my bumper because I was using my truck has a truck not a race truck, not a yuppie look at me machine, a truck, something you Toyota boys don't understand. By the way, take a look at a Ranger bumper, then take a look at a Tacoma bumper. I know I faired much better with the heavier steel of the ranger's bumper. I am however having a hard time trying to find a good used one in a junk-yard. Seems as though the stepside Ranger bumpers are different than the regular box bumpers.. I may have to buy a new one.. OUCH 300 bucks!
Steve234, I only mentioned "conspiracy" in passing. I actually thought your previous comments held a lot of truth. It is hard (maybe impossible) to find recall information on certain Toyotas.
Cthompson, I did find the phrase "special service campaign" when looking for the Toyota head gasket recall, but as there was no other information attached to it, I dismissed it. I think alldata.com was the site where I saw that.
I realize that statistics can be manipulated for almost any purpose, but without Consumer Reports and similar unbiased or un-bribed firms, we really don't have ANY numbers that we can discuss, much less manipulate. And if we have no reliable, OBJECTIVE means of debating and arguing the dependability of vehicles other than each other's personal experiences, these topics for me are going to get pretty boring.
I know some of the posters like to rattle on and on about how well they've fared or how horrible their decisions were, but until I see undisputable proof, I'm am left feeling suspicious, to say the least.
Am I alone here on this?
www.msn.carpoint.com has some past reliability data on Toyota trucks that may raise some questions.
-barlitz-
the problem with those little otc bulletin board stocks is that the spread is a mile wide! good call, although I'm assuming the only reason it bounced was the interest rate cut...
Any-who-- Vince I'll hit the trail with you. Give me a couple months to get the new truck broke in (300 miles on it now)-- I wouldn't take a brand new Ranger on a tough trail either.
PS-- I had to get rid of 97 Tacoma for the 2001, because of a trail accident in the Sawtooth's. I folded my front right tire under. Next time I'll use my standard equipment Toyota helicopter blades to get out! JD Power's rave about 'em!
Anyway, lousy statistics aside, do you guys have any advice for an individual looking to trade in for a full size American truck? I am considering either the F-150 or the Silverado 1500. Now, mind you, I know nothing about trucks, and I have no access to reliable, impartial information or statistics. In your opinions, which truck should I go with? I also heard that neither truck is 100% assembled here in the U.S. Does this mean that the truck is somewhat foreign? I hope not. I've been braggin' to all my buddies that I was gonna have a 100% Made-In-America truck.
yeah these guys are in it for the looks.
I've got tons of more links if needed-
i'm sure you've got the ranger ones bookmarked too-so don't send them-- notice there's even a 4wd toyota tercel decked out! If you've got some offroad festiva pix hook me up.
CR, JD Powers, etc... use sampling and statistical methods to determine a vehicle's reliability (whatever their definition may be, which seems to vary greatly among owners). If someone takes this information as gospel whether for or against any make/model, I think they are quite foolish.
If you'll open your eyes, you'll see that no one (not even Vince) has even disputed that, on average, a Tacoma will have fewer problems than a Ranger.
How is it that the statistics (CR, J.D. Powers, Auto magazines, etc) are not totally trustworthy, yet, there IS a consensus, according to you, among all the owners here, domestic and import, that, on average, a Tacoma will have better reliability than a Ranger?
From what source are those who agree upon this matter getting their information? Maybe it's like Eagle63 pointed out when I asked about opinions on full size trucks--maybe the Tacoma, to those who've owned or even test-driven one, just "feels" higher in quality.
Eagle63, thanks for the opinion, but I was just being sarcastic and trying to make a point about those who are ignorant or unschooled on the matter of automobiles who come to Edmunds looking for objective advice.
Webbd,the closest you'll get to 100% american is the Saturn and thats something like 95% made in America.