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Honda Accord Quality Control Issues
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The problem is more widespread than Honda admits and is only going to mushroom. I suggest Honda upgrade their power train warranty from 3yr/36K to 7yr/100K on all 1998-2002 Accords. They also should provide a "free" loaner car during the time of repair.
My experiences taught me one thing about Honda, I will never buy another Honda product again!
Honda Motor Company Recalls Acura Models for Transmission Problems
August 18, 1999
TORRANCE, CA - (SafetyAlerts) Acura, a division of the American Honda Motor Company, today announced the recall of over 84,000 automobiles to fix problems in the vehicle's automatic transmission systems.
Faulty sealing bolts may cause the transmission to leak fluids or operate improperly. Acura dealers will conduct a very short repair procedure to fix this problem.
According to Acura Customer Service, this recall affects all Acura models from 1995 to 1999. Although all models are affected not every vehicle may need to be repaired. A spokesperson from Acura Customer Service stated that only certain vehicles will need to be fixed.
http://www.safetyalerts.com/rcls/nhtsa/99/acura.htm
Clunk Clunk, shudder shudder. Does it really matter to you now that Honda makes loads of money and has a reputation for resale value? What good will it do you if you have a car with a tranny design problem and Honda doesn't give a damn. They got their money and that is all that matters. Do you think resale values will be affected now that a lot of people know that the trannies have problems? Anyone for a used Honda?
I've only sorted through some, so I really don't know what to make of them yet. But I think quite a few of us have an interest in these users' experiences. Apparently, this site will be used in a follow up to the LA Times article that will examine how Honda has treated Acura owners with transmission warranty problems.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showthread.php?s=3ed9e22475c1ce085c892d221d449c29&threadid=80656
Honda better get its act together and have a recall on all its defective transmissions it manufactured that definitely puts the consumer in a very dangerous situation!
From http://www.latimes.com/la-hy-acura11sep11.story
"Nor has Honda issued a service bulletin to alert dealers to the potential for trouble, he said.
Company policy prohibits dealers from opening transmission cases--"If there's a problem under warranty, the whole transmission is replaced," Spencer said--and the problem transmissions cannot be identified until the problem occurs.
So a bulletin, which typically provides instructions for repairing a problem when the customer takes in a vehicle for service, would do no good."
I do hope a better way can be found.
Well, that's a nice thought, just like the thought others post here that there's no problem - "don't worry about it" they say. It's interesting however that both my I4's, a '99 and an '00, shudder due to this thorough testing. No flames, just trying to point out that this issue is not limited to the V6.
Beachnut, I have a '99 honda civic with auto transmission. I've had an '83 accord before that. Both of them have rougher transmissions than other cars I've driven. The surge during shifts is a characteristic of Honda transmissions. Hopefully the 2003 Accord's new transmission solves that. Other than the roughness, I still believe in the quality and reliability of Honda transmissions. Just like how Accords are "rougher" than Camrys, but both cars are still built well.
Honda is going to lose a lot of customers in the future.
I suppose no transmission should ever have a problem.
If the 1.6% failure rate (was that the number?) is such a terrible thing, what, then would be acceptable and how does that number compare to ANY other make or model ? I don't know the answer.
I don't like hearing of these problems and I do recognize that things happen.
I just think this is being greatly overblown.
Was that a typo? I agree that Honda should extend the power train warranty on all of their automatic transmissions - that would do a lot to ease worried minds and help their image. But up to 200k miles? 7 years/100k miles would seem to be the most anyone could ask for.
I don't know how widespread this tranny problem really is, but Honda better step up to the plate and reassure current owners, or they might find fewer future buyers. Since they can't diagnose problems in units that are out on the road, they should copy Toyota's sludge play book and extend their warranty of automatic transmissions.
May I suggest that no one, including Honda, really knows how widespread this problem is? Honda has yet to adequately explain what the heck is going on for that sort of assessment. Thus far, they've narrowed the potentially affected vehicles down to 2000 - 2002 V6 Accords. Not a 2 month batch of bearings or some other parts, but basically any transmission they've sold both new and remanufactured since late 1999. And forget that 1.6% number - that's just a running count, since Honda can only tell if the transmission is affected AFTER it fails. You don't have to major in industrial engineer to realize a valid 1.6% statistic should not allow customers to experience failed first and second (and in some cases, more) replacement transmissions under warranty. If it weren't for the Honda name and rep, you could easily believe these are the horror stories of those poor Chrysler ECT 4-speed transmissions of the early '90s.
With the 2000 V6 Accord owner warranties expiring just about now, can't you see why they may be a little nervous? And while some people say the wild Acura loss of control examples don't apply, Honda lumped those transmissions in their explanation, so safety concerns are in play as well.
Sorry, but until Honda answers these questions, I disagree with your "overblown concerns" assesment. Until then, we should be gathering as much information and evaluating as objectively as we can.
Thanks for letting me ramble.
I have to think I'm in somewhat of a position where I would be hearing things but I am not.
Just in these forums where problems tend to get amplified just as they do in some of the "complaint" forums...a pity party in some cases.
But, I'm sure some of my detractors and Honda bashers think I'm lying.
ymac...I do say my prayers at night but not out of fear my "eggs are cooked"...far from it...sorry!
BUT...having said all of this...If a reader here is scared after reading these postings...they should buy something else!
Before you jump, though, be sure to read everything negative you can find in these forums about that make or model.
Overblown.? Big time!
but when it happens to the big three its " american cars suck" im never buying american again!!! or hyundai and kia suck hahahaha i would rather walk ahaha.... hmmm....... i know what the sales people will say honda has greeeat resale value. honda last at least 200k miles etc... maybe in the past but who really knows these days
by the way i own a 2003 corolla (used to have a 2002 corolla that drifted to the left, rattles galore, and basically didnt like the car, traded for the 2003 because i was able to purchase a japan made one and got more for my trade in)
so i actually bought into this so we'll see how my car holds up, but it looks like honda and toyota might be going down hill.
as far as american cars i wish they would make something thats nice looking!!!! or i would have shoped them too
I read one of the referenced articles about Richard Head, the dude in the Boston area surging to 80mph on the freeway when his automatic pooped out. I didn't realize Ted Kennedy allowed folks to drive that fast in MA. I bet Richard had a red face like Teddy's when his automatic shifted back! From the looks of his photo, he's an overweight, fat-faced lard bucket looking for media attention. Honda may have a legitimate argument in that his left buttock cheek put undo stress on the central portion of the transmission housing. What a Richard Head... I bet he financed his Acura for 10 years of additional debt.
isellhondas: Hang in there. Did you see my earlier reference to the restored '85 Civic Wagon? How about a swap for a 2003 Accord? I test drove a Japanese import (LX out of Sayama) last week. It's very nice, and the five-speed automatic is smooth.
ironman: Are you a triathlete? If so, you 'da man like auburn63 (the Honda pro on this forum). I still make an [attempt] at 100-400m sprinting, but there's no way I'll jump in water or ride one of those skinny-tire bikes! You guys are freaking nuts...
From the consumer's vantage point, there is an equally valid perspective being heard from that should not be dismissed, either.
May I again suggest that it is quite possible that no one, including Honda, has a solid take on this issue. First, their 1 million vehicles numbers include a full third that aren't even a year old. Nearly 100% still have warranty coverage, so final numbers won't be had for another 3 years. Just like Honda, the consumer will be keeping an eye on this issue, so if you think it's overblown now...
I would also like to point out that half of the cars cited by Honda probably has around 20,000 miles on 'em and are 18 months old. Now you really can't make a statement that 8,000 failures came to cars with 20,000 miles on them, but you kinda get my drift. Some of the cars suffering this failure had to have been very low mileage vehicles. All new car owners, but especially Honda owners, have very high expectations when it comes to engines and transmissions, so transmission replacement at 20 odd thousand miles is upsetting and consistent with some of the reactions we see here.
I would also like to take this opportunity to hopefully put an end to the 1.6% number being held up as Honda's quality rate. The 1.6% number is not inclusive of all Honda warranty problems, not even all Honda transmission problems under warranty, but just the narrow category of Honda/Acura transmissions affected by this recent revelation. Only with Honda's help can we hope to understand these numbers, so let's hope Honda follows through, folks.
Thanks for your time, Isellhondas. Recognizing your expertise, I'm sure I will be asking advice of you in the future!
In my high school days, I did the 400m - my hat is off to you, my man! That run is a killer sprint...
And while auburn63 already had my utmost respect, he's even more da man in my book now that I've learned he's a triathlete.
( http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showthread.php?s=31c04b8eb53a5a41ca8003400631cb39&threadid=78841 )
I really want to believe Honda can explain this, but 3 weeks and 500 miles on the updated-with-the-fixes replacement transmission and now IT needs a replacement transmission because of a new and different problem?
Granted, this is an enthusiast Acura site, but the Copland007 sounds like a straight shooter and was in love with his car, lavishing it with praise and attention for a year, so I don't believe he abused his car in any way. And he went out of his way to praise Acura Customer Service during the first replacement transmission.
The issue is not overblown but darn right critical. Honda knows of a major defect and has not issued a RECALL. It hopes it can dust the problems under the rug with its new transmission in its new 2003 model.
This shows me something, Honda doesn't care about the consumer at all. All that it wants to do is sell cars! It has no concern for the safety of its customers or their well being.
I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. Honda will be forced by the NHSTA to issue a recall when more and more of their defective transmissions start failing.
I just hope that someone doesn't get seriously injured on the highway driving 65 mph and have the transmission fail! This is no different than the Firestone Wilderness Tires or the Ford Pinto gas tank problem.
isellhondas I suggest you talk with your service manager tomorrow and finally get an honest answer.
tend to deny anything is wrong or blame it on the customer until theyre backed into a corner.
i dont think isell is going to tell you anything different.
there are allot of dealerships his might be lucky and not have had to deal with these problems??
maybe honda or toyota arent invincible after all..
i honestly want to see if my toyota will live up to its reputation over the next 5,6,7,8, years and see how many miles ill be able to get with it.
my next car will most likely be a hyundai
OK! I won't shoot the messenger. I'll just pop'em another Snickers bar. Seriously, I'll go back and scroll down to your referenced entry.
I know what you mean about the killer 400m, but I can't imagine doing an 800m. Maybe Honda would sponser us for a 4x100m relay team [?].
Later...
Bodydouble, where did you hear that some replacement trannys have also failed?
Just some speculation, but needless to say, I won't be keeping my '02 beyond 36,000 miles.
I do walk through our shop several times a day. Once in awhile, I'll see a transmission sitting on the ground...not often.
And I'll ask the tech.." do you see many of these causing trouble?" The responses...
" Oh, once in awhile, not too often" or...
" Well, it's got 85,000 miles on it and the fluid looks like it's never been changed"
That's it...sorry to disappoint you.
"Oh, once in awhile, not too often"
Isellhonda, once in awhile>>> is that once a week, once a month, once every two months,etc..etc. well, you know where I am getting at.
This Honda Accord Tranny problem has a similar rendition as the Toyota Engine Sludge Issue. You know, there are those people who has major interest in the Honda cars(ie. either they work for Honda or they sell honda) and those people who are the consumers or users of these products. Usually, people who have vested interest with Honda will say that the car is close to perfect and these complaints are nothing but sourgrapes coming from Hondaphobes. As some of you might recall, that Toyota Engine sludge problem was initially played down by the so- called Toyota experts as nothing but just few isolated incidents that were caused by owners neglect. As the storm gathered, Toyota finally admitted to the problems and at the end, the consumers won the game. I even remember TMUSA1, a Toyota spokeperson, starting a forum in this townhall to answer questions about the extended warranty and the Sludge issues. That was simply unheard of!
I think HONDA should do the same to quell this impending blow out regarding the tranny problems. Try as he might, a Honda salesman will not be a good help to these Honda customers because his opinion will always be biased.
I must say that, having looked at the NHSTA board
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
I counted 42 reports for 2000 model Accords. That's plainly a significant number. I don't think that it's disputable that there was/is a problem with a number of Honda Accord transmissions. I also agree that Honda should do the right thing and increase the warranty period on those transmissions for those particular model transmissions. If there's really no problem, it shouldn't cost them much to make that offer.
What I object to here is the hysteria. It's absurd. Not all Hondas forever are junk, as some seem to imply. The number of Honda Accord Automatic transmission problems I counted for 2001 was 6. That would suggest that the problem, if not completely cured by 2001, was substantially reduced.
I think it is one thing to say "watch out for 2000 model Accords; they may have transmission problems and quite another to lather up into a frenzy.
Just be dam* glad it's not a Ford Taurus that you bought... or a Chrysler minivan.
If you bought one and you're scared, sell it off while everyone still loves Honda and move on. The more you whine publicly, the less your car is going to be worth.
Regardless, part of what folks are attempting to do here is PRESERVE the value of their hard earned $$ by getting Honda to protect them down the road with a warranty extension or fix should the situation warrant. How is anyone going to be hurt if a warranty extension or better quality repair results? Getting information from places like these help the evaluation process and doesn't intend to hurt anyone. No offense intended - thanks.
If you check the title of this forum, it indicates quality issues regarding Honda Accord.LOGICALLY, you will see Honda Accord problems in this forum and not praise for its "inherent" quality. I think you need to reevaluate your logic of reasoning here. 16,000 tranny problem might not be a significant amount coming from a value of close to 1 million or so vehicles but the matter of fact is this 16,000 tranny problem is A TRANNY PROBLEM and not an engine problem.
Plus, Lokki, c'mon if you categorize this as a hysteria then don't go this forum. Its not healthy for you. Also, a car was/is not an investment, its a liability. Therefore putting a value in car is a losing proposition. "Whining" certainly will not help it but again, not "whining" as you call it will not increase its value either.
I'll bet you, this problem will evolve into a "Sludgegate" for Honda maybe in three months, six months, or a year from now. I just hope that HOnda does not make the same kind of mistake that Toyota did with its Sludgegate.
The number of problem transmissions is VERY SMALL compared to the ones without trouble.
The doomsayers sure like to stir up trouble.
People presented their problems here and you seemed to scoff at them as if it was rare. Finally, an article was written illustrating the problem which is the tip of the iceberg and once again you just brush it off.
Well, we know you sell Hondas for a living but have a little compassion when the facts are presented. Your illustration regarding your conversation with the transmission in for repair was tasteless at best. The outright denial really is perplexing to many of us here.
I leased a 2003 Honda Accord EX-V6 two days ago and have discovered two defects since I acquired the car. One defect is on the right rear door. When shut, the bottom half of the door, closest to the rear tire, is not flush with the car. It sticks out about 1/8 inch. The left rear door is perfectly flush. My dealer could not fix the problem and is sending me to a body shop at an affiliate next week to try to fix it.
The other, more serious, problem is a defective steering wheel/column. It appears that the whole steering column is a few degrees off-kilter. The result is that when holding the wheel at the 3 and 9 o'clock position, the left side of the steering wheel is further out from the dash board than the right side. My dealer acknowledged the problem this morning but said there was nothing they could do. They said they compared it with other 2003 Accords on the lot and that all of the them were the same way.
As you can imagine, I am not happy about this and will be pursuing a resolution to the problem with Honda.
Potential 2003 Accord buyers should be especially vigilant in examining their cars for these and other defects prior to signing any purchase or lease contracts.
I don't think anyone is accusing you of being a liar. However when you present anecdotal evidence as "facts", then yes, there will be instances when others will call you either misinformed, biased, uninformed or "blind". 16,000 figure from Honda IS A FACT, a conversation with your dealer mechanic is not. At best, its a "hearsay". If you are trying to prove that this tranny problem is NORMAL, anecdotal evidence will not help us in getting this issue resolve.
The second remanufactured transmission also failed. If that is any indication regarding the 6th generation transmission, it took Honda (I hope for the purchaser's sake) five years to correct it on the new 2003 Accord.
Isellhondas always indicated in this forum through his snide remarks that I kept repeating my story as if I was a "Honda Basher". The truth is I was warning others of the problem which now has come out nationally in the media. And from all indications, there will unfortunately be many more over the next two years.
Here are my symptoms:
1. Sometimes it shifts roughly, especially from 1st to 2nd. This mainly happens when the engine is cold but it has happened well after warm up.
2. I've also had this shuddering problem that has happened twice so far. The car acts confused and starts shaking as the torque converter locks and unlocks rapidly. At least that's what it feels like. It could be trying to decide between 3rd and 4th gears. It does it for about 5-10 seconds.
3. The car also seems to hesitate slightly before upshifts, which may be normal as I was used to a very quick tranny in my '91 Legend.
The car does make very smooth and timely downshifts which leads me to believe that 2/3 of my symptoms are normal for the '02 4-speed auto.
But I still have to wonder. Could my transmission be affected? My car was manufactured in June so I might have one of the weak transmissions. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
"Honda said Thursday that it will extend the warranty on vehicles with a problem transmission to seven years/100,000 miles."
"The extended warranty applies to 2000-01 Honda Odyssey minivans; 2000-01 Honda Accord cars with automatic transmissions; 2000-01 Prelude; and 2000-03 Acura CL and TL cars."
I noticed that the article said the extension didn't include the 2002 V6 Accords like Mike Spencer had in the LA Times article, but included I4 automatics. I'm guessing only the V6s are involved and includes 2002 since the 1 million number was used, but we will need to wait for the letter to be certain what the offer is. Hopefully this means Honda has narrowed down where the problem is and can eliminate saftey concerns with information on how to determine if there is a problem before complete failure occurs.