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I expect I'll get the dreaded "can't find anything" once they give it the once-over. Will let you know Weds. if otherwise.
Thanks for the responses so far.
Have a 97 automatic legacy wagon whose right rear seat belt is stuck. Can't move it in or out. Any ideas greatly appreciated. Thanks, Steve.
plotenza re92's. I still have about 1/2 tread left on them . I ,m going to have them replaced bfore winter with Goodyear Triple Treads. I guess I'm easy on my tires but I have noticed that they are getting very bad in the rain . They also have a lot of cracks and splits around the edge of the tread . I rotate them every 7k miles and keep air pressure at 32psi on all 4 of them .
Mike K
Pay attention to the recommended slight pressure difference front to rear. This balances out the slightly front heavy weight distribution to produce a neutral front to rear rolling diameter. Otherwise, your center diff is taking on more wear than it should trying to overcome the delta.
Steve
-juice
CK wires from ECM for looseness CK no loose connector found, recommend replace IGN relay, replaced main relay.
They have to send out for the ignition relay.
I'm all but set to tear into it tomorrow evening..... :sick:
-Wes-
As I rev the engine the water seems to gurgle as if going over a high point in the pipe.
How do I bleed the air out?
Have you changed the gear oil at all? Some say 30k miles, I'd say at least 60k miles or 5 years, so it's time if you haven't.
-juice
http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/PoppingInfo.pdf
I ended up with a 4-figure tranny rebuild on my 2000 Legacy at ~85k miles due to this.
Hope you have a better outcome.
Jim
-juice
Steve
The Subaru Maintenance Manual says quote "Your Subaru vehicle (except H6 models) requires an initial engine oil and filter change at 7,500 miles or 7.5 months, whichever occurs first". I was 669 miles late.
Well I was quite shocked when they told me I had a blown engine because there was no oil in it.
Later the dealer called and said Subaru would not take care of it because it is my responsibility to check the oil.
I said wait a minute, why didn't any indicator lights go on? Where did the oil go? Does the car have a leak? You mean to tell me that when you buy a brand new subaru, you drive it for 8000 miles and do nothing to the car except put gas in, the engine will fail?
They confirmed there is no leak on the car, and the indicator light is working now. I know I did not miss this. I sat in the car looking for any signs that would indicate I should not drive the car. Something just seems not quite right here. If I were Subaru I would not be to happy with my performance. Yes they all tell you to check your oil and tire pressure everytime you fill your car up with gas, but how many people really do that? Especially with a brand new car?
I am dissappointed to be in this predicament. Subaru has not returned any phone calls a day later.
Has anyone experienced anything like this? Just curious
Margaret
First, if you were just hearing the "ticking" noise when you took it in, your engine is not blown.
Second, it takes a helluva lot of oil loss for the warning light to illuminate - your engine was not "dry". When I had a terrible oil leak on my '96, it could be up to 2.5 quarts low at any one given time (that's very low considering it only holds 4.5 quarts!!!). After about 2 quarts low, I would hear the dreaded tick and yet I never saw a warning light illuminate. That was over 50K miles ago and I have 192.5K on it with plans to put on many more (I have fixed the oil leak!).
Third, always check your oil when you fill up with gas. It is just a good habit to have because you never know when a problem might crop up and a car is an expensive investment! The term "Gas & Go" is not a literal one, it just means that maintenance costs are (or should be) minimal for the first 3 or so years of ownership.
Now, if the car still runs, thank your lucky stars and check the oil more often (at least every 1000 miles if you feel every fillup is too much). Problems that have or may develop from this episode (however unlikely), should be your responsibility to resolve.
If it does not run then that's a problem because it ran when you parked it at the dealership! And, if the oil was low enough to blow the engine, the light should have been on to warn you. That's why they call it a "dummy" light. At any rate, if you can get Subaru to cover 50% of a replacement cost, I think that would be reasonable.
So, in summary, try not to overreact. The dealership's service department may have been horrified to see the oil so low, but I think it is a recoverable situation...... even for a "new" car. You may consider making up for the extra wear by babying it with 100% synthetic Amsoil from here on out......
-Wes-
Thank you for your response. I agree that I have to take some responsibility for not checking. I just can't figure out where all that oil went when the car has no leaks and is new. At least you discovered the leak in your car. Our car used a quart of oil for every 2,000 miles of use. I have never had a car do that. It makes me wonder if the right amount of oil was in the car to begin with.
My husband asked the dealership to drain the oil and there was only 1/2 quart left. The dealership says the engine has to be replaced at $4,000.00 and yes the car was running fine otherwise when I brought it in. I had to drive it on the freeway just to get to the dealership and I noticed no performance problems other than the ticking.
I am curious to see what would happen if we replaced the oil and filter and tried driving it.
Margaret
A sad story indeed....
The H4 crankcase holds about 4.25 quarts of oil. It is not uncommon to find the factory fill to be a bit overfilled - at least that has been my experience. We also have to assume that the dealership did check it as part of make ready, but it is always possible that they did not. But lets start out with the assumption that the correct amount of oil was present when you took ownership.
"Normal" oil consumption on a new car is typically 3k per quart, but there is certainly a wide range. Auto mfgrs consider 1k per quart to be the acceptable lower limit, and will often refuse to fix a car unless it goes below this 'action limit'. I have seen complaints on this and other mfgr boards about high oil consumption on new cars, although it is a low level problem on a properly maintained car. And that may be the 'rub' here.... So even 2k per quart is considered acceptable. But I bet it was better than this when it was new.
If you had a gauge, you might see highway pressure at 60 psi. But at idle, it might drop down to below 6 or 7 psi. Perfectly normal. I would expect that the idiot light sensor could be set as low as 5 psi. If you are low on oil, the pressure could vary widely, as the pickup in the oil pan sucks a mix of oil and air. At idle, 6psi might be OK, but at speed you are severely under-oiling, yet will not be well informed by a dash light. Unfortunately, just the nature of idiot lights. They will tell you about sudden total pressure loss, but offer you little help if you are slowly starving the engine of oil, as in your case. Wes's testimonial about hearing more valve tap noise at two quarts low, but no red light, illustrates the point.
So lets say that consumption was about 3k per quart for the first two quarts. You are now down two quarts, but have suffered no engine damage. Now the problems begin. Not enough oil is in the pan, and you start sucking air under some driving conditions. Pressure drops more, friction begins to build, surfaces begin to break down, oil consumption rises sharply, and you now do begin to burn oil at a faster rate. Maybe you are now down to 1k per quart. Still acceptable under normal conditions, but you have no reserves for this consumption rate! 2000 miles later, you suddenly hear lots of noise as the death spiral begins.... You are now at 8k miles, with a near empty crankcase.
So what now? I would definitely try filling her up and driving to see how she sounds. Change the oil again at 500 miles as there is likely to be a lot of metal particles and shavings in there. Maybe you lucked out and the dealer is being overly pessimistic. If it isn't too noisy, you might want to try running it for a while before replacing the motor. But they may very well be right, and dropping a valve or throwing a rod is just around the corner.
My bottom line - plead for mercy. Technically, they owe you very little. And good luck.
Steve
That's the norm. So at 8k miles, the industry would allow for up to 8 quarts to be consumed, in the Subie's case all of it.
The oil light measure oil pressure, I believe, not the level. That's why there's the dipstick.
I'm not saying it's your fault, only that you did make some mistakes. The key is to find out what was causing the oil level to drop so dramatically, and see if that is covered under warranty. Of course my first paragraph shows that it falls within the industry norm, so you might need to ask for a break at this point.
Good luck. Try the folks at 800-SUBARU3 and be real nice, talk about how it's a new car and you're so excited about it, you love Subarus, blah blah blah. My guess is you'll receive better attention/help if they honestly believe you're potentially a customer for life vs. a disgruntled one that will leave the brand anyway.
-juice
If the headgaskets went and you didn't shut it down in less than a minute you may well have damaged the engine.Ten miles at highway speeds may well have seriuously damaged the engine.
You don't mention what model and year the car is? 96-99 2.5l Subaru engines are notorious for having head gasket problems. If you go to a dedicated Subaru site like Ultimate Subaru you will find many, many, many anecdotes of problems with them - "Phase I 2.5l." Note that CR now gives them a black mark for engine reliability.
I replaced mine when I started getting evidence of exhaust gas in the coolant overflow tank. It cost $1,250 at an independant garage, about average if the block or heads aren't ruined.
I don't know how much longer I can drive this car. It's been a year and I sure haven't gotten use to these awful seats. They are comfortable for 10 minutes and then I am in pain. The side bolsters cut into my hips and the rest of the seat bottom is numbing as well.
After a drive of about an hour, I limp getting out of the car.
I am starting look at other cars at this point.
I drive mine about two hours a day on average and I sure wouldn't live with that!
We also have concerns about the firm (numb-bum) seats. Can't wait for winter, so we can put on down-filled coats to help pad things up. My only hope is that they will soften over time...certainly can't afford to trade it. The car is great otherwise. (My wife loves the leather seats in our Camry XLE, but the car sucks in snow.)
The only solution I have is to make the stops more frequent...two hours is about right for me
The dealer told me the seats were designed to be "more BMW-like"...ah...right!
What about papaya juice? It sure softens tough meat!
Doug
I have not ridden in a limited, but the base cloth felt wonderful on my bum after years in my '96.... I guess there are some perks to a new car, but not enough to warrant buying one yet! I can certainly see how those seats would be terribly uncomfortable for anyone with a large frame. I am 6' with a 33" waist and the seats fit like a glove.... any wider and there would be distinct pressure points.
One thing I have found to help tremendously with my office chair is a gel (~1/2" thick) pad over the surface of the seat. Even on soft seating surfaces, the gel redistributes weight and helps to remove pressure points from the hip bones and thighs without any modification of the chair. As a temporary fix, this might be worth a shot.
It's tough to trade out a car early on but it is not worth sacrificing your comfort to keep it.
-Wes-
David
#5202 of 5275 2000 Shift Shock by dsain Aug 28, 2005 (2:10 am)
I've recently purchased a 2000 OBW with 87K and have noticed some shift shock when the AT shifts from 2nd to 3rd. Not consistant, but always when cold and never at WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Took it in to the dealer (60 day warranty) and they say they can't find a problem. I don't want to drive it until a critical failure happens, and I haven't seen any mention of this problem on the board. Does anyone have any input on this problem?
Otherwise I love this car. I was surprised by the amount of go the small powerplant produces, the handling and the ride. It's fun to drive, and I imagine the manual would be even better. I could forgo the wind noise that seems to come from the mirrors, but keeping the stereo up seems to fix that .
Regards,
David
Unfortunately, this can be a tough one to fix. I had a Toyota that gave a terrible kick in the rear upon the 1-2 shift, and no amount of external intervention seemed to fix it. Finally at around 70k miles I had it rebuilt (really because of a bearing problem, but it was a good opportunity to address several things), and it was smooth as silk afterwards. You could still read the printed numbers on some of the friction materials, so it was indeed engaging without slippage. Cleaning the valve body might have fixed an actuation problem.
Several things come into play to minimize shift shock: electronics, fluid pressure on clutches, and friction materals. Electronic engine/tranny management may retard timing / cut fuel, etc, to reduce power during shifting. The valve body (again under electronic managment) should ramp up pressure to lock elements into place, and friction material should 'give a little' as it couples elements together.
They say that more shift shock minimizes total wear by rapidly coupling parts rather than allowing heat and wear inducing slippage. I guess my clutch materals bore witness to that concept. Performance car 'shift kits' speed engagement by substituting higher k value springs in the valve body to rapidly direct fluid to lock motion. But I agree, if you are not running your car at the track, few need or want to put up with the harshness.
It is possible that your dealer just does not know where to look. You might want to try an independent tranny shop that deals with this stuff daily.
Steve
I have been told by Subaru that the a/c compressor cycles on and off, and to use only the re-circulation button in the summer, but I can't imagine that warm/humid air should ever come through the vents when the a/c is on. I have never had this problem on any other car I have been in, even when outside air is selected. I've heard bad things about Subaru climate control systems, but this seems ridiculous.
Has anyone had this problem? Is it a design flaw with the climate control system?
Thanks.
Jim
I stopped by the Subaru dealer and checked out an 06 OB. The seat bottom cushion has been altered a little bit... I seems a tiny bit softer and has different stitching.
Hard to tell if it's more comfortable without driving for at least a half hour.
Thanks, Jay
I think I may post that site since it is not a competitor or forum, right?
I'm chasing a similar problem - my '99 Outback Wgn (120 k mi) has been throwing an EGR/bad spark plug code every few months for a year. The car runs fine, and after "fixing" the problem the first few times, I just check to see if I'm throwing a new code for a new problem,and reset. I figure that there must be a stray signal getting into the system, and I'll just have to live with it.
You might also see Subaru TSB #116000, CEL code P0705
I go with NAPA (gold?) batteries. Not maintenance free, but they have never done me wrong and I have one in my pickup that was installed in August 1999.... it will start up that truck at -35F after two months of sitting and no battery heater! (I just found out recently that the pad had gone kaput... probably years ago by the looks of it! :sick: ) I'll be sure to log when it does fail.
Anybody have any suggestions .
Thanks
Mike
It was 6 years old at the time.
Mike - sorry, never tried that myself.
-juice
I've gotten to know when to let off the gas a little to ease the shift, and the used car warranty has expired. It's not all of the time, and I spend most of my time at highway speed so I think I'll leave it for now. Thanks for your input.
David
You are most welcome.
Steve
Just to be sure, these are the instructions that I posted when someone else asked. They had lost a set of keys and wanted to disable the lost fob. It is basically what is in the manual, plus some rewording for clarity. Maybe there is some minor deviation that is hindering your attempts:
Round Fob Programming Instructions
Warning: Do not program your remotes with other Subarus in the vicinity as you may be unknowingly programming someone else's remote for your vechicle.!
1. Disarm the security system (if your vehicle is so equipped).
2. Open the driver's door and sit in the driver's seat.
3. Close the driver's door.
4. Place the ignition key in the ignition switch and cycle the switch from "LOCK" to "ON" ten times within 15 seconds. Be sure to stop at the "LOCK" position. (leave the key in the ignition) The horn will sound once to indicate that you are in transmitter programming mode.
5. You must finish the next steps within 45 seconds of the horn honking.
A. Open the driver's door.
B. Close the driver's door.
C. Press and release any button on the transmitter. The horn will sound two times to indicate that the transmitter has been programmed.
The control unit can remember up to 4 transmitter codes, so your lost unit is still active and could potentially be used by a bad guy. Wipe it out by programming the new one and the remaining original two times each to reassign all 4 program slots. You can do this all in one step by repeating items "A, B & C" in quick succession.
Exit Program Mode: After programming your remote, remove the key from the ignition switch. The horn will sound three times to indicate the system is now out of programming mode. Check that your remotes work properly at this time.
Good luck,
Steve
David
They probably make different sizes to fit the OB as well. If you have Subaru Bucks from a Chase Subaru credit card, like me, it might end up being free.
If not there are aftermarket options, try Google for "Subaru Sway Bar".
-juice