Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
Subaru Legacy/Outback problems and solutions. Thanks for your participation.

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  • joyridea4joyridea4 Member Posts: 48
    I also have a 2001 H6 LL Bean outback. Since it was new I have had periodic problems starting car.
    always when it is cold and mainly in the Winter.
    The symtoms are when starting the car the engine
    shakes as if only firing on half the cylinders. If
    I turn off the car and restart, it usually restarts ok. Sometimes I have to crank longer then
    usual to start. I advised the dealer about the problem. They stated nothing is showing on the computer as a problem. Yesterday I had to restart three times to get the engine to smooth out.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    In addition, look for direct links to the Edmunds' Maintenance Guide, as well as other related Subaru discussions/features on the left side of the page. Hope this is helpful. ;-)

    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My only problem is that Subaru doesn't sell a bigger vehicle with 3 rows of seats. C'mon Subaru! :-)

  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    3 rows of seats??? How about something with enough rear hip and shoulder room for 3 adults or two adults plus a child seat in the back seat? I was looking at the Legacy earlier this year but it was just too narrow back there to really put 3 people in the rear. Needs at least another couple of inches to be comfortable.
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    We have not had the same good luck as other with our Outback. Its had TONS of "small" problems. They are almost all fixed (except the ping) but it took 15 unscheduled trips to the dealer. The significant ones were leaking door seals, a front door that became totally misaligned somehow, brake pedal would go nearly to the floor before providing any stopping power.....and plenty of others. Still we like the car. Those things dont detract rom the quiet, smooth, ride and its stellar performance in the snow and rain.

    I did hear rumors of Grand version of the line but I dont know what became of it. A Grand OB would have been cool. 6'' wider and 12-16'' longer would have made it perfect.
    One of the more odd things is that there is no Subaru minivan. Just about the biggest complaint is what juice just reflected. Need bigger vehicles. My opnion: I dont want or need an SUV, I want an AWD minivan. My only options currently are the Town and Country AWD and the Venture/Montana with Versatrak. There is the Astro AWD but if I'm going to get better have 400hp. My family has had horrible luck with DC transmissions so the TC is out. The Montana looks kinda funny to me so thats out. The Venture is actually pretty nice but when compared to the Toyota or Honda it just seems really unrefined (engine and chassis). The other draw of the Venture is that we will have maxed out our GM dollars at $3500 by then easily. Probably cant even use that much toward it.

    Still, Subaru should listen. The OB is fine for us now with just 2 people and a dog (sometimes 2 totalling about 200lbs) but its just too small for much more than that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, I say go for an AWD Venture with the $3500 credit and get 0% financing for the remainder.

    I drove a Rendezvous, and it was OK. It really deserves a better engine, IMO. Verstrak is FWD until you get slip, so no full-time AWD.

    Did you guys see the new Subaru concept at Tokyo? It was discussed in the Future Models thread.

  • pschneider1pschneider1 Member Posts: 3
    I've seen a lot of comments about brake squeal in reverse on starting up the first thing in the morning, or when the car's been sitting for a while. My 2000 OB has squeal going forward, seems to go away after one or two stops, but comes back with what I consider to be medium to medium-hard braking. Has anyone had a similar problem, and could this just be pad squeal? I had them looked at when I had the O2 sensor recall, and the dealer "cleaned and adjusted" them, and said they were fine. Other than that, I like the car so much that we specifically rented and OB in September to spend 6 days in Yellowstone, and found that it's a great car for moderate "off-roading".

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Call your dealer and ask if he's heard about the brake-shim fix. That has quieted the brakes on a few cars already.

  • pschneider1pschneider1 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks, Juice. Have you heard whether the shims work for this type of problem, or just for the "morning backing-up squeal" problem?

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The fix was intended for the AM squeal, but it may help all around, I'm not sure.

  • gotenks243gotenks243 Member Posts: 116
    Actually, Subaru technically does make a 3-row vehicle now. The name escapes me, but the first Subaru minivan went to market just a couple months ago. The reason I say "technically" is that it isn't really a Subaru, it's just a re-badged Opel Zafira, and Subaru producing it with their badging was obviously influenced by GM's buying of 20% of Fuji Heavy Industries.

    Still, Opel or no, it's a 3-row Subaru. Whether it gets out of Japan or not is a different story. We may see a real Subaru 3-row though if that WX-01 "Emotional Multi-Wagon" concept gets produced...ever. Who knows.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The name is Traviq. But an in-line four mounted transversely and with FWD is not a real Subaru.

  • ob11ob11 Member Posts: 28
    My only problem with the OB is that I also test drove a GT limited sedan (in silver) 5 spd.
    What a car!!! bought the OB anyway......
  • caskiercaskier Member Posts: 4
    I'm cross-posting this, I hope nobody minds...

    Hi All,

    I've been reading this site for quite sometime and have found it very enlightening, thanks for your posts.

    After 4 years of research and waiting, I bought a '01 Outback Wagon H4/5sp in July. After 6 months of use, I have recently started having problems with the steel frame in the driver seat pan. As some have noted, the seats are rather deep and now every time I swing my left leg over to get out of the car, the steel frame cuts into my hamstring. It's to the point now actually where I have trouble walking and have actually consulted a doctor.

    I suppose it has taken these 6 months for the foam (?) padding surrounding the steel frame to break down enough for the frame to become so pronounced or I would have noticed it sooner.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas on how to fix/replace this seat?

    I have tried lowering it as much as possible, but the car is high enough off the ground that even at its lowest, my leg rests on the seat edge while touching the ground. I've taken to various acrobatic tricks to evacuate the car now. Incidentally, it does have the electric motion controls, which I would be fine without.

    Thanks and regards,
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    While you're waiting here for feedback, you may want to see what information you can find in this archived discussion: Seat comfort in Outback. Also, have you tried looking in Edmunds' Maintenance Guide to see if you can find any related TSBs (technical service bulletins). For future reference, look for direct links to our maintenance guide and other related articles and discussions, in the additional resources on the left side.

    And btw, don't worry about cross-posting. I often encourage people to post in more than one discussion, especially when they're experiencing a problem. Not only will it help in getting you more feedback, but it will also make it easier for others on down the line... to find your information. Good luck in finding a solution, and please keep us posted. Thanks.

    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    I said small block, I meant short block, I guess I could have just said engine block. In any case, insurance has agreed it's all under the accident so its covered, that's a relief. Now we have to wait for the check to be cut and the replacement to be ordered. At least the engine will be largely new when they're done, but it looks like we'll get to week 14 at least before it's back.

    rsholland: I would have thought so, too, but the replacement interval for the timing belt is not mentioned in the manual.

    n8wvi: Not sure which engine it is (the manual is in the car right now) but yes, it's an interference engine. It's a timing belt, not a chain.

    onfoot: Well, you had some other problem there, ours started with the accident and the piece of metal stuck in the cylinder.

    Seems the big mistake here was on the part of the collision guy who sent the car to Subaru for the valve job without re-assembling the car so Subaru couldn't test the engine. He suggested it to save Subaru work (it appears). Of course, maybe they wouldn't have found the problem either...that car ran fine for quite a while before dying.
  • mexican3mexican3 Member Posts: 1
    got a stone chip on my subaru forester "98 windshield.Can pay insurance deductable,but glass shop suggested, it maybe better to "repair"the nickel size crack and keep the original windshield.Is something wrong having the windshield replaced???
    Also,is the 60000 miles maintanance price $700 correct?why it is so expensive..?anything that has to be done at this time without spending so much money.???Thanks..Yes.I got a answer.Thank you but,still with the same doubt.If I can replace the windshield,is anything wrong with that?leaks,no original part,etc??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let them try it. They tried on my wife's Mazda and the crack just got bigger. Ask for a warranty if they can fix it, you have nothing to lose in letting them try.

    60k miles is a major service. They ought to replace just about every single serviceable part on the car. I can think of a bunch of stuff: oil and filter, fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs, plug wires, PCV valve, tranny oil, differential oil, 02 sensors, alignment, tire rotation and balance, etc.

  • stinkynelsonstinkynelson Member Posts: 13
    I have a manual 02 OB and have noticed since day one that, when I accelerate (most noticeable from a stop), the car seems to hesitate in its acceleration. It's pretty consistent and I'm certain that it isn't my driving that's causing it; the clutch is all the way out.

    It happens in 1st and 2nd and is most evident when I'm in need of high acceleration, but it only does it once, and then goes.

    On another board, someone suggested it was a plug misfiring.

    Any ideas/experience around this?

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, it's brand new, otherwise I'd suggest you check the plugs, wires, fuel filter, stuff like that.

    You could check the throttle cable and remove any excess slack from it (but leave some or it'll idle high).

    The only other thing I'd try is to change brands of gas, to see if that has any effect.

  • jregen7243jregen7243 Member Posts: 91
    It's probably those crappy Champion plugs that Subaru puts in new cars. I've read NUMEROUS complaints from people about them, and once people switch to NGK, the problems disappear. My '00 OB Sedan also has a very slight hesitation, but I'm used it and its no big deal (by the way, its an automatic).

  • jlawton2jlawton2 Member Posts: 25
    I'd be interested to know how many people out there are happy with the manual transmission on this model. I've got a 2002 Outback ltd. w/ 5000 miles on it.

    I'm finding it very hard to drive smoothly in lower gears. Lots of shuddering going into first and second at what you'd normally think would be the correct rpm. I've got to rev higher than usual to make sure not to stall when entering intersections going into first from a dead stop and then from first to second.

    Also the horrible burning smell in stop and go traffic. Anybody else here getting that?

    The dealer says we're driving it incorrectly and that's whats causing the burning or stalling. He says with a hydraulic clutch you can't move forward slowly easing the clutch in and out in stop and go. That you have to let it all the way out to avoid burning the clutch plate which of course you can't do because it will stall if you're moving slowly, which is of course what you'd be doing in stop and go. So what are you supposed to do hit the guy in front? I want to say that I can drive a manual and have never had a clutch wear out before at least 110k on other makes of vehicle. Has anyone with this problem figured out how to drive through it?

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Check the manual trans fluid. Consider changing it, maybe with synthetic gear oil. It's a relatively easy job on the manual tranny (remove two plugs, drain, replace bottom plug, refill, replace top plug).

    I put synthetic in my Miata, and the shifting in cold weather got a bit easier.

  • lindasubarulindasubaru Member Posts: 4
    I purchased my used 1996 legacy outback last August. There have been many check engine light episodes-mainly when starting cold in the morning, in winter, in damp weather and always when going up hills.The dealer can't seem to find the problem. Now the car is loosing power and stalling when going up hills-the dealer tested it yesterday and it stalled for them but they can't locate the problem. The car always starts easily when turned off and on. The problem seems to be getting worse and has become a safety issue.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The CEL is really just a symptom. I'd look at the following:

    * spark plug wires (most likely culprit)
    * spark plugs
    * fuel filter, fuel supply
    * air filter
    * water in gas tank (use dry gas, keep tank full)
    * fuel injection (get a throttle body servicing)

    I bet one of those will solve it. Our 626 was hesitating big time, and the throttle body service fixed that. On they say spark plug wires are often the fix for a loss in power.

    Good luck.

  • nic99nic99 Member Posts: 1
    About a month ago my '98 Outback Wgn over heated (?) - temp gauge hot, blackish smoke, no steam, horrible coolant smell as well as nice pattern of coolant all over drivers side tire through holes in rim. It has 105k miles but I'm not ready to give it up yet.

    Since then, it's been to my local mechanic twice and dealer once, neither of which could get the temp to rise again. I've had radiator cap replaced (only holding 9lbs pressure v. 16), air bled from coolant lines, thermostat replaced, and two head gasket tests which were both normal. Less than 24hrs after picking up from dealer the temp shot up again, coolant level was low, that great smell was back. When I called dealer, they said to check oil & did it look like caramel? It doesn't - regular old oil, which incidentally they also changed. Now the dealer is telling me they'll keep it overnight to run pressure tests all night, but I should replace the engine, which is roughly $2300 incl labor (used engine). I think they don't have a clue, but figure why not start over....

    I know nothing about cars save where to put the key, gas, and washer fluid. Does anyone have suggestions on what I should be checked next? My local mechanic suggested possible cracked head, but the dealer said they couldn't do just that, had to do the whole engine. Though its amusing to have my son ask "Mommy did your car blow up today?", I'd really rather have a solution. Any help would be appreciated - Thanks!
  • kturner1kturner1 Member Posts: 33
    Sean, to me the Soob seats are a weak spot. I'm getting used to them, but they are too hard for my taste. Anyway, my '01 L seat cushion was replaced at around 500 miles because the metal wire frame within was tweaked. It has been fine but still hard since. Also, I usually support some of my weight with my hand on the rocker sill as I exit.
  • editjeffeditjeff Member Posts: 5
    2000 OB with few problems, but the original battery seems to leak and has corroded the hold down bracket. This is not corrosion on or around the terminals. I am concerned about sheet metal corrosion over time. Has anyone else seen this with the no-name battery's that Sube puts in their cars? I find this particularly annoying since almost every car I have ever owned has had some sort of battery box corrosion problem. My '74 Opel was the worst, our '88 volvo 760 Wagon was also pretty bad, now a Subaru.

    You would think that after designing cars for over 100 years that automotive engineers could make a battery area that didn't rot out. Put the battery in a plastic box for crying out loud!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The water levels may have been too high. The distilled water becomes acid, and if it leaks it'll corrode pretty much whatever it touches.

    Check the water level, remove some with a dropper or turkey baster if you must, just don't touch it with your hands.

    I would replace the tray, it should be cheap, and if not try an aftermarket one from Pep Boys, Trak Auto, or NAPA.

    nic99: I'd let your mechanic have another look, I guess. Ask him to check if the fan is working, i.e. nothing is blocking it.

  • kturner1kturner1 Member Posts: 33
    I've got this too in an 01. In addition to Juice's advice, I make up a solution of baking soda and water and carefully rinse off the top of the battery and the tray. Don't let it get into the battery itself though. It might help.
  • dbrown3dbrown3 Member Posts: 1
    I am posting this here since the symptons described by jlawton2 are so similar to the problems I have experienced with my 00 Forester over the last year. I have taken the vehicle to 3 different dealers one of whom actually replaced the whole clutch assembly but the problem persists. The dealers said exactly the same thing to me about letting in the clutch and never letting it slip. However as pointed out it is very difficult to not slip the clutch especially when trying to parallel park on a hill for example. (and anyway how does the clutch know if it is being activated by a mechanical linkage or hydraulic pressure) I also have juddering when starting off and even sometimes a burning smell when just starting the engine-as the clutch pedal has to be depressed.

    All complaints to the dealers have been met with a dismissive "don't drive it like that" comment. I find this particularly annoying as I have diven all kinds of manual transmission cars on 3 continents for over 30 years and have NEVER experienced these sort of problems before.

    I also contacted the Subaru tech support people and have quite a file with them. They did send their District Service Operations Manager (Mike Pelkey) out to look at the vehicle. Subaru's position on this is that they will replace the clutch if it fails completely (at no additional cost) but they will not admit that there is a general problem which warrants a recall. They tell me that each problem is delt with individually (the old divide and rule trick) .

    So although I do like Subies, I had an Impreza for 4 years before purchasing the Forester, I don't think I will be buying another. I strongly believe that Subaru do have a marginal clutch problem on both the Forester and Legacy since they use many of the same transmission components. Implying that people do not know how to drive is not going to win them repeat business.
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    The Subaru Outback LL Bean is so close to the car I want to buy but for one thing -- the front seat passenger leg room is very cramped.

    Has anyone come up with a solution to this -- seat position, extending the seat track, etc.?

    I'd love to get a Subaru Outback LL Bean but I may be forced to a VW Passat wagon for the increased front passenger leg room.

  • eric102eric102 Member Posts: 122
    The drivers seat is easy to do (see some of my earlier posts), but I haven't tried the passenger side yet (but will). Just by looking under the seat (I haven't removed it yet), it doesn't look to difficult, probably cutting some new notches on the rails and changing the position of the stops. Worst case would be taking the rails into a shop and having them modified. If you really like the car, I wouldn't let this be the deal breaker. I sure like mine (base Outback).

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    David: it's true, the pressure plate on Subaru's clutch is not very strong. They've gotten better but are still the weak spot in the powertrain. It may even be designed that way, so the clutch fails before any other drivetrain component does.

    Nowak: it can be done.

    Eric: was it you that was going to try to take pix when you also do the passenger side?

  • eric102eric102 Member Posts: 122
    That was me, I'll take some pic's when I do the seat mod.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great, please do. I told ya lots of people would be interested. :-)

  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    Thanks in advance for the photos Eric! I appreciate your helpful spirit! Maybe you can save the LL Bean purchase after all!

    -- Joe
  • joyridea4joyridea4 Member Posts: 48
    I have been following the posts on the AM reverse
    brake noise. The brakes seem to be very sensitive to moisture. The second month I had the outback I went on vacation and left the vehicle in an outside parking lot at the airport for a little over two weeks during Winter months. When I started out to return home I thought the wheels were going to come off the first few miles. I ended up having to have the rotors turned at about 5,000 miles. I checked on the brake shim that was mentioned on the board. The subaru rep told me that the shim is no more than a pull tab from a pop can. I decided to pass on this at this time since it did not sound to high tech to me.

    I have a question on the automatic H6 LL bean outback wagon. Mine seems to have transmission slap when it shifts. If I get onto the gas it seems to be smoother when it shifts but does not help the gas milage. This seems to occur mostly when going up a hill or incline.
    Any thoughts on this? Maybe that the way they are.
    This is my first subaru.
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439

    I have 16K miles on my LLBean. Love the car, especially in the snow!

    I had my rotors resurfaced at 10K - they were acting up when I braked off the parkway at 75 mph = warped. Only non-routine service so far.

    I have also noticed a slight "slap" here and there (maybe 5-10 times in total). Only happens when the car is under light load (like when shifting from 2nd to 3rd going slow on a flat road). Don't think much of it, though. And my last car was the reference point for all mid-priced transmissions - a Camry - can't get much smoother than that for the price.

  • joyridea4joyridea4 Member Posts: 48
    Ralph, I also like the beaner. I have about 12,000 on it. The problem with the transmission slap happens coming up the hill just before my house so I notice more then. Yes it is usually under light load. If I punch it, it shifts smoother.
    I traded in a Nissan Patherfinder for the LLbean and I find that it meets my needs. I very rarely go off the beaten track where I would need the low 4 wheel dr. The gas mileage is a lot better and the ride and handling are superior.

    What kind of tires are you using on your LL bean.
    I have the stock all season Firestone Wilderness on mine. It seems to do well in the snow.
    Last month I leased a 2002 A4 quattro. I did buy snow tires and steel rims and wheel covers for it.
    I got the Dunlop graspic DS1 package from tire rack. They seem to be doing a good job. My wife drives it more than I do, but she has no complaints so far. The tire certainly has an agressive tread pattern with a large footprint.
  • ob11ob11 Member Posts: 28
    I also had a hard time driving my 5 spd. I noticed that I had to concentrate to engage the clutch smoothly in first gear. I attribute this to a couple of factors. I think the throttle is touchy, especially when the engine is not up to temp. I think the ECM does funky things to keep the motor from stalling. I don't know if I operate the clutch/tranny correctly, but at each shift point ~ 2800 rpms, I disengage the clutch while simultaneously getting off the throttle. Then I shift, engage the clutch, and then throttle back up. I try not to let the r's fall off too much while shifting so as to not slow the car due to engine breaking. When I am in stop and go traffic, I try to engage the clutch with no throttle. I try to let enough distance open up up in front of me so that I don't have to stop rolling slowly forward. I use the clutch to moderate my speed. (This is very hard to do with a lot of aggressive drivers nearby as they feel that any open space is theirs!) It also frustrates the hell out of SUV drivers, as they can see open space over the top of you and cannot believe the your not kissing the next cars bumper. Anyway, could someone explain how to use a manual tranny, and if meets Subaru's criteria of correct usage?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don: despite what the rep said, I've heard of 2-3 people who got the brake shim kit fix and it did work to quiet the brakes. The noise doesn't do any harm, though, if it doesn't bother you.

    Check the ATF fluid level anyway, just to be safe.

    I would use a little throttle when you let up on the clutch. I also try to creep in 1st gear in bumper to bumper traffic, though.

  • gazzerdcgazzerdc Member Posts: 4
    Am I going crazy? Just purchased a 2002 O/B LTD. GREAT car. However, the first thing that happened is I'm getting a vibration when turning; the dealership (which has been great, so far) has heard of the problem...think it's the power steering hose, but Subaru has no fix yet. 2) the braks squeal every time I back up. This started at 900 miles. I now have 1133 on the car. 3) Am I crazy or does the heater/ac fan dip when I step on the gas? 4) Now, this morning, pulling into the garage at work, I get a "Clink" when I shirt into park and feel the same "clink" on the steering column. Am I just having "new car syndrome" or are this little things going to turn into big things. It's hard, because I love the way the car handles.
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    I have the stock tires, but can't wait to replace them when the time comes with more quiet tires. I'm currently looking for another ~30K car....passat4motion, H6 VDC Outback sedan, highlander4WD are on my short list. Do you like the A4? I'm just having a hard time looking at anything non-Japanese...
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786

    Clunk when shiftikng to Park is probably a Park Interlock of some sort. Are you making sure you have your foot on the brake when shifting too or from Park.

    Vibration when turning may be binding rubbers on sway bars. I suffered noises on turning when my Outback was new. Dealer removed and lubricated rubbers.


  • sweingastsweingast Member Posts: 28

    I have a '97 Legacy Outback with 102K miles. Been a real good car, though my mileage has always been between 18-24.

    About two years ago one of my fog lights went and a year latter the other one went. The dealer said since they broke because of being hit by road stones they were not covered under the warranty. There was a small hole in one light and the other one was cracked.

    The dealer said it would cost $321 to replace. So for the last year I have been driving without the fog lights. Is there a cheaper replacement and how difficult are these to replace?
  • ob11ob11 Member Posts: 28
    Joyridea4, I bought the same winter pkg. from tire rack. We haven't had much snow here in central CT. The couple of times it has been slippery, I have to actually try to make the car slide. The combination of AWD + the limited slip differential and the aggressive tread snows makes the car feel unstoppable like a dozer!
    Happy motoring!
  • joyridea4joyridea4 Member Posts: 48
    Juice, thanks for the advise. I will check out the trans. fluid.

    Ralph, I know what you are saying about Japanese cars. I have had three Maximas, one camry, and one pathfinder. I have been happy with these vehicles, but Iam always looking for something new. I did a lot of research on the A4. I see no down sides to it. As I stated before I traded in a 99 Passat 2.8 for the A4. I wanted to go to the next level. So far we are happy with the decision. Don
  • joyridea4joyridea4 Member Posts: 48
    I am glad to hear that this package seems to be working well. I was not sure how they would work since I was not familiar with the tires. Tire rack
    gave them a good reconmendation, so I went with them. I had been using Michelin Artic Alpin the last two years. They were very good, but were 15" and would not fit on my new A4.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There is a fix for the AM brake squeel. Ask the dealer to install the shim kit.

    Lithium grease is sold in spray cans. You can spray the rubber bushings that hold the front and rear sway bar in place to quiet them. Or let a dealer do it. They are easy to see if you remove the wheels (i.e. during a tire rotation is a good chance to do this).

    fog lights? I would go aftermarket. No way are they worth that much cash. For $500 you can get true HID driving lights.

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