Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

cynthiag

Thanks for the suggestions folks!

I think I'll try moving the cross bars back first. The noise does not sound like it is coming from the driver's window. It is distinctly to the rear and above, or at least that is how it sounds to my ears.

If that doesn't work, I'll take them off and see what happens. Honestly, I've never had to use a roof rack before and I don't know how I'd tie something like lumber or pipe on it anyway.

If I still get noise after that, I'll look at the seal like suggested.

Cynthia

subearu

also, make sure that the crossbars have the fatter side forward, like an airplane wing. others have wrapped the crossbar with a rope or bungee to 'disturb' the airflow (eliminate the noise).

I've noticed that the flow up top is more pronounced without our hood deflector on. With the deflector on, the noise is minimal.

Also, the angles of the door glass can be adjusted - if it is indeed a seal issue. If the search worked you could look in the Subaru Crew General Mainenance section for those instructions.

-Brian

ateixeira

First I've heard of a Subie CV Boot leaking. It could have been torn or cut by debris on the road, did you run over anything? Our 626's CV boot ripped open and we had to replace it, but we traced it to a little "off road excursion" my wife had when she drove off a driveway.

Tapping is OK as long as it goes away once the engine warms up. 5500 miles may be a long interval if you do short drives or live in a city. I used to go with a 7500 mile interval but I've basically decided to shorten that to 3000 miles.

Paul: try some lithium grease spray on the clutch pedal joints.

Emma: sorry about your CEL issues. Some people suggest taping over the light! :-)

Seriously, federal OBD2 standards have made these very common. Any vacuum leak in the gas vapor recovery system, like a loose gas cap, any water in the gas tank from condenstation that causes a single misfire, little things like that trigger a CEL, on any brand. New cars are worse because the standards are tighter. I was LOL when I read that many Miata.net members actually shop for pre-OBD models!

What can you do? Let the dealer read the codes, tell you what it was, and get it reset and hopefully, if the symptoms point to a clear problem, fix it.

What else can you do? Tighten the gas cap good. Several clicks. Also, try not to run around on an empty gas tank. If it's cold, condensation will get water in the gas tank, which could lead to a misfire - Bam, CEL.

Write your congressman! Tell them OBD2 goes too far! It's a major inconvenience for new car buyers of many brands. Subaru is not exception because their cars are LEVs, great for the environment, but they have to meet strict standards.

-juice

mysubie1

I had the whistle from my 02 OBS crossbars, they are the same as regular Outback now. The fix from the dealer was to put these "air disrupters" on the bottom of the crossbars. They are just a small flaps that they stick to the bottom. Unnoticeable and they worked great! The service tech said this was a common problem with factory crossbars. The first tech tried repositioning the bars, but that didn't work, sometimes I guess it will. These air disrupters are a warranteed part, so ask the dealer about it. It took 30 secs to fix.

ateixeira

Pardon the disruption... ;-)

I love a simple fix!

-juice

kens

"air disrupters"

I love it! Sounds like something from Star Trek!

Ken

hammersley

Juice: it's not a squeak during range of motion or that seems associated with moving the pedal itself. It sounds like it's related to engine RPM - almost as if something's rubbing internally. It's loudest with the pedal depressed a couple inches, but goes away after passing through that area of pedal travel. Either goes away or is drowned out at speed. I'm wondering if some sort of linkage adjustment would help. Any other ideas welcome - I'm trying to arm myself with as much info as possible prior to a possible trip to the shop. Thanks, and

Cheers!
Paul

emmaline

Just picked up my Legacy '02 wagon, after it was at the dealership over a week for a chronically malfunctioning check engine light. This time, they sent the car's computer to the factory, and had it recalibrated. I don't really understand what this means, and while the people in the service department were nice enough, they really didn't explain to me what is going on with my car. Just, "We recalibrated your computer, and this is rare, but happens every once in awhile, and everything is fine now. Just go to the service counter and they have your papers." Guess I was expecting more along the lines of the mechanic I had worked with for many years, who made it a point to meet with me for 5 or 10 minutes when I picked up my car, explain what he had done, show me any part he had replaced, and ask me if I wanted it (no thanks!) So now I am hoping that the CEL problem is fixed. You can joke about taping it over, and I do understand you are joking, but we all know that would not serve us well if a major problem came up and we ignored it. I think it's a good suggestion to look into whether the new OBD (?..what is OBD?.. ) requirements are backfiring, and to write our congressfolks and let them know. Truthfully, I have a few friends who have purchased other '01 and '02 makes who have had no CEL problems...but, yes, they did mention other problems. PLEASE...do not start posting all the failures of Hondas, Toyotas, etc. It was never my intention to start that. I assume this is a public forum, made up of Subaru owners who are sharing problems and solutions. It strikes me how easily folks could post scary problems about other makes, and those who work for other makes could post bogus problems about Subuaru. I hope this is not the case. I hope all posts here are from Subaru owners who do not work for the company, or have an interest in it. If that is not the case, I would hope you would mention it. Thanks, Emma

cynthiag

Hmmm, air disruptors. I'll ask about that!

Looks like I am going in anyway on Friday, my CD player, security system and air filtration are all here and waiting to be installed.

Cynthia

storyteller

Emma: Gee, we just wish we were! Then we'd be driving free Subarus instead of paying for them like you did. There's one Subaru employee on these boards, and she's completely up-front about her status. That is Patti, and you won't find her writing defensively about the failings of Subies. She does occasionally lend a helping hand to someone who is having service problems.

As for the rest of us, we are all smitten with Subarus. And we might sometimes bristle a bit when people get negative about the cars we love. Be patient with us. Imagine some stranger telling you that your child or dog doesn't smell quite as nice as he or she should.

Steve

paisan

Generally emmaline, when you get your car repaired under warranty there is no "showing or giving" of the broken parts to the customers, they are sent back to the manufacturer as "cores" and/or for diagnosis as to why it failed. As for not speaking with the mechanic, sometimes you can some times you can't talk with them at a dealer, Generally though the service writer is the point of contact not the actual mechanic in a dealership. There have been several ECU problems over the past 2 years or so that required the ECU to be re-programmed. You use a computer, so you probably know about files getting corrupt etc. Same goes for the programming in the ECU.

-mike

tqw123

I have read the posts about the crossbar whistle. However, I think I am experiencing something different. I am wondering if anyone can help me out. I just bought a new 2002 Outback Wagon. While taking our first trip on the highway, we noticed a high pitched whistle type noise. This noise only occurred while accelerating above approximately 60 mph. The noise stopped when I took my foot off the accelerator. It seems as though this noise is coming from the engine compartment, not from a window or the crossbars.

The dealership has told me that this noise is normal in these types of cars. I am sure that they do not want to spend the time trouble shooting the problem, as they will not recover all cost from Subaru. And, I am definitely not satisfied with their explanation. I would be truly grateful for any advise that anyone would be willing to provide. Thank you very much.

Ted

ateixeira

Emma: they either reprogrammed your ECU, or replaced it with a new one. That fix has helped others, so I hope the same happens in your case.

OBD=on-board diagnostics, the stricter level 2 makes it OBD2.

Subypower works for a dealership, and Patti from SoA also roams these threads, but both admit that openly and follow all of Edmunds' rules.

Cynthia: cool, let us know how you like the new accessories. I have the air filtration too - asthma.

Ted: you think there could be a leak in the intake? It's easy to disassemble and reassemble.

-juice

beachfish

They might be joking about taping over a dash light, but I've done it twice. I won't tape over a temperature light or gauge, but anything else is fair game.

I like Click and Clack's "Self Diagnostic Mode" method of car maintenance - drive it until it breaks and then you know what to fix. My '86 Subaru lasted 14 years before the rust got it (search for my previous posts on floating 4wd wagons in seawater). Search? Did I say search?

Once, on an old Datsun, I actually went so far as to take a teeny drill bit and drill through the face of the dash to pop the bulb for what passed for a CEL. You need to be careful getting the hole started so the bit doesn't wander, but it is a solution.

John (older and maybe bolder, but not much wiser)

P.S. - Eliminate wind noise...crank up the tunes!

ateixeira

I was jokingly suggesting that, but people actually do it.

I love ingenious solutions.

-juice

hypov

John-
Earplugs does just as well. =D

-Dave

mrk610

What i meant was that they changed the valve lifters to solid ones which have to be adjusted by service tech. I think yours may be hydralic lifters but it won't hurt to find out .

mike k

mrk610

Its finally been in the 70's this past week , and I don't hear my engine making any noise(piston slap as per service tech) .How sweet it is to hear the nice boxer engine noise and not have to wait for my car to warm up .My routine for driving my outback . Get in start car let it warm up if cold . Put on seat belt roll both driver and passenger window down about 2" then roll back up . Lean over and open and close glove compartment.I have had rattle that stops if I open and close it.Has been there since I took delivery of the car . Just got a cool toy for my car at Sams club . Digital air pressure gauge that is back lit for darkness. Comes with a neat metal holder with cloth indent to hold gauge . It also has a led lite to see the valve stem . Only paid 15.99 what a deal .

mike k

linsavy

Here is a fix for the clutch squeak problem

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/index1.html

Takes about 20 minutes and some chain lube.

bbrandle

Had a little accident this afternoon backing out of a parking space. A piece of protruding rebar from a curb stop in the parking space caught the front plastic bumper cover on my '01 OB and pulled the bumper cover about halfway off. I stopped the car before cover creased/bent in half or ripped off completely, but about 8 of the eyeholes in the cover (where the platic bolts that fasten the bumper to cover to the front of the car) were ripped out. DOH!

I think that I can fashion the bumper back on reasonably securely, because it still is fine cosmetic ally. But if I need to replace the bumper cover, I would like to know what the part number is and how much it would cost from the dealer vs. used from a U-pull autorecycler. Anyone able to help me out? Thanks in advance.

nippononly

but I have had a '97 outback sport since it was new, that has the 2.2L engine. It has 115,000 miles on it now, and it has never needed a repair. The point is, it has been doing that tapping sound for a very long time, probably a couple of years. It is only on first start-up in the morning, and is worse the colder the weather is. It always goes away in the first couple of minutes, or a little longer if the weather is below freezing, and the dealer told me it is normal for these cars, and not to worry. As it seems to have had no detrimental effect at all, I have not worried! I have heard a lot of the older Subarus doing this all the time when they are driving, and they seem to be running just fine as well.

By the way, my car is one of the first to comply with OBD2 regulations, which came into effect (at least in California) in 1996, and it is true that they are very strict, and lots of things can cause the CEL to come on. The most common is the gas cap, which causes this due to evaporative losses of gas vapor if it is loose or left out. I should add that I have never had the CEL come on in my car, but know people who have. Sometimes it is just because the gasket on the gas cap is old and worn out, so that it is not possible to tighten it enough to meet the OBD2 requirements.

The CEL mostly relates to things in the emissions system, which means that if it comes on you may be polluting more than you should be, but most likely there is no major problem with the operation of the car, and you are probably not causing additional damage if you need to continue driving.

ateixeira

Check out subaruparts.com and subaru-parts.com, those are 2 different places. I would call to get quick quotes and part numbers.

I have them for the rear bumper cover of a Forester, but that won't help you much. Retail was $150 for the bumper skin, unpainted. I got it for $125 or so IIRC, and the Forester L is unpainted to it was ready to put on.

-juice

mrk610

Yes is does give me peice of mind about your car and the noise.I still don't think it is piston slap because I don't hear it when I start the engine . I only hear it when I drive the car . The more gas I give it the louder it is ,and it goes away with in 1-3 mins of running .

Mike k

emmaline

Thanks for your replies, Juice et al. So far, no CEL on my dash. What is an ECU? Glad to know what an OBD is (on-board diagnostics). If someone has time, could you explain that. I'm so glad to be back in my zippy Legacy Wagon...none of the (2002) rental cars were as comfortable or fun to drive. I very much appreciate the safety features of Subaru, as I plan to pass this car on to my son in a couple of years. I have noticed an annoying noise recently, which I think others have been describing as a "wind tunnel" noise, which seems to me to be in the right passenger side. Will check back to see what I can do about this. Hey, you guys love your Subarus, and know how to make adjustments. (The drill to disconnect the CEL is hilarious but not something I'd attempt.) I know nothing about cars, and count on a trusted mechanic to take care of mine. Emma

diangelo2

Our 2000 Legacy rear brake pads had to be replaced at only 22,000 miles before they damaged the rotors . The dealer Northtown Subaru Amherst,NY claims this normal wear and was not covered under warrenty. I called SOA and was told that they would not cover the cost of this repair.I talked to independent repair shop who repairs subarus and states this is common due to poor design of the rear disc brakes.I hope Patti from SOA reads this and that SOA will then cover my repair cost.othewise we will never buy anther Subaru again.

trek2002

tqw123 May 8, 2002 7:01am

Have same problem diagnosed as:

Noise coming from pinion bearing/Ring Gear....

by Jim Burke Subaru in Birmingham AL.

Parts are on order now for 3 weeks. Advisor says that its a 3 day job to repair and will provide free rental car.

Hope this helps you out.

eric102

A couple weeks ago I noticed some moisture in the tail light of my 6 month old 02 Outback (1st problem I've had). When I called the dealers service dept., they said "when can you bring it in? we'll have a loaner car waiting for you". I was surprised that I would get a loaner for such a minor problem. I've never got that kind of treatment from my Honda dealers (this is my 1st Subaru). Well, they couldn't reseal the tail light and had to order a new one (couldn't locate one in the entire Seattle metro area either). Picked up the car and it was nice and clean (hand wash). The next week after the tail light comes in, same deal, loaner for the day, tail light fixed, clean car, no dings or scratches, a very good experience. Roy Robinson Subaru in Marysville WA. (no, I don't work for them).

Eric

storyteller

Emma: Since nobody with more knowledge seems to be answering you, I'll try. I think the ECU (Electronic Central processing unit?) is your Subie's computer. Correct me guys, if I'm wrong.

Steve

kens

Actually, an ECU is the engine control unit. It's basically a single or series of microprocessor units that act as the "brain" for your engine. The ECU measures inputs from your air intake, your gas pedal position, gear selection, speed, temperature, etc. to determine how much fuel and air to send into the engine, set the timing of the spark (from the spark plug) for optimum performance.

Here's some good reading for ECU basics:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/car-computer.htm

Ken

storyteller

cptplt

The worn brake pad indicator should have made a noise before the rotors got carved up. If they didn't then that would be the something Subaru could be held liable for covering as it should give you more than enough warning to get to a garage. Were you the driver or someone else? My wife drove an Audi we had once so long after the brakes started making a noise, we needed 3 rotors replaced!! ("Oh, well there was a noise, I forget to tell you about it. I was going to but I forgot") Unfortunately it may not seem fair but brake usage is so variable amongst drivers, no company is going to replace them at 20K. Maybe in the first few K they may take pity on you but at 20 its your word against theirs as to how hard you brake and unfortunately that never gets too far in a court. My wifes Venture just went through rear pads at 25K though I recognized the noise immediately(funny but it doesn't seem GM puts audible wear indicators on their rear brakes on this car though they are drums).You can bet your life GM won't cover that either. If you think this brake problem sucks. I had an Acura Integra for which I needed a new clutch after 20K, I'm convinced it was not set properly at the factory, as I have never in maybe a quarter million miles of manual transmission driving gone through a clutch that quick and the next one lasted me till 90K when I sold it. They didn't give me the time of the day either when I contacted them! It was simply, prove it. Well, there was no way I could , so I was out several hundred bucks.

fibber2

IIRC, Honda settled a case and paid a big fine to the EPA over OBD2 CEL's. Apparently, they had so many cars coming in, they started 'reprogramming' them to hide the light.

I went thru weeks of frustration with this on my '97 Dodge Gnd Caravan in '99. The codes only tell them so much, at which point you are at the mercy of the service tech to figure out what is really wrong.

Nobody likes the inconvenience, but we do it in the name of clean air....

Steve

diangelo2

I had only one day of notice of a problem with the brakes and the dealer would inspect the car till next day, The rotors were resufaced so I save the cost of purchasing new one so I guess I got some warning!! What about aftermarket brake pads that come with a lifetime warreny?

peterson10

Richard, no offense intended here, but 22k sounds not unreasonable given the weight of the car, and not knowing your driving habits. It sounds like your service dept. replaced the pads BEFORE they damaged the rotors; is that right? Did you hear the squealers? Perhaps the service tech was being VERY cautious (not a bad idea considering how cheap pads are vs. rotors). My bigger concern would be that it sounds like they resurfaced the rotors. Were they warped or badly scored? Rotors like those Subaru uses are heat-traeted (hardened) on the surface. If you machine off that hard shell, you are left with the soft iron underneath; as a result the rotors will be more apt to wear and warp. As for lifetime pads, I'd be careful. I went that route only once. They lasted a lifetime because they were as hard as flint, squealed constantly, produced a great deal of friction (which increases rotor warping), and generally felt like crap! From now on its soft, responsive, top-of-the-line OEM pads for me...replace them well before the rotors are scored, and figure I come out ahead in the end.
YetAnotherDave

paisan

My dad's legacy L goes through pads every 14-20K miles so 22k isn't out of the norm.

-mike

ateixeira

ECU = engine control unit, i.e. your car's brains. What Ken said. ;-)

Richard: pads are a small price to pay for quiet braking. Longer lasting pads (like in Europe) squeek to the high heavens, and Americans aren't tolerant to noise.

Maybe I've been lucky, or perhaps it's because I use engine braking with my 5 speed, but I'm on my original pads with 45k on my Forester, and they have never made a peep.

-juice

nygreg

Started noticing a pulsating in my steering wheel at about 40mph. I think it is the wheels needing balancing, however, it is possible one or both rotors have warped slightly (although I don't feel it in the brake pedal and it doesn't get worse when braking). I will have the wheels balanced first. If that doesn't work, I will bring it to the dealer and see if they will replace the rotors under warranty. I'll keep you updated. BTW, warping rotors are common. Happened to my Camry several times. (yes I use a torque wrench

Greg

ateixeira

Rotate 'em while you're at it. Hopefully that's all it is.

-juice

nygreg

rotate them. I believe the pulsating began or got worse after it was done.Somehow its is not a clear as you would expect - old age? Therefore tires. A good note - I had the tires rotated by a garage when they inspected the car. When I got home, I checked with a torque wrench. They were right on! Figures -the garage owner is German and mainly works on German cars. I get the feeling he likes Subarus too.

Greg

rwwdjw

to eric102: could you, in the interest of time, let me know what posting no.'s relate to your comments on front seat room. we have a 2002 outback vdc wagon and find the passenger leg room very inadequte. thanks, rwwdjw

eric102

I haven't solved that problem yet. It won't be as easy as the drivers seat. I did take the seat out of the car the other day to see what it might take. It looks like you could gain about 1&1/2" of travel if you could get the inner and outer rails apart so you could modify the stops and cut new adjuster slots. I didn't see an obvious way to pull the rails apart, it looks like they have some indentations pressed into the rails (to act as stops) to keep them from sliding apart. I only spent a few minutes looking it over, so maybe I missed something.

You got me thinking, maybe those indentations could be drilled out? I'll take another look at it.

Eric

nippononly

I am reading the posts here, with so many people getting so little life out of their brakes, and I have to say I think it has a great deal with how one drives, and also whether the car is an automatic, because the manuals take longer to go thru brakes, all other things being equal. For the record, I have had my outback sport since new, and it still has the original brake pads at 115K miles, and the last service it had they told me there were still 60% of the brakes remaining. I must admit I am amazed, but I am used to getting 90K out of a set of brake pads. These may go double that!

And I do sympathize too - I have a friend who has to put a new set of front brake pads on his camry about every 20K.

ateixeira

115k may be some kind of record.

-juice

nygreg

I don't think "a lot of people" are getting short life out of their brakes. I'm have 22K on my 01 OB auto and so far so good. But yes, depending on how you drive and where (San Francisco) will have the greatest impact. BTW, my Camry would eat brakes every 30K.

Greg

kevin800

The remote key for my Outback broke recently and I went to get another at the dealer. However my alarm was still activated and I could not start it. The service guy at Subaru told me to stick my key in and turn it 5 times from "lock to just before start" to deactivate the alarm so that I could program my new remote but I tried and tried and I still cannot get my alarm reset. Has anyone had this issue before and have a better way to solve it?

rwwdjw

thanks for your response. will follow this board to see if you come up with a solution.

nematode

Our 2k OB Ltd. brake lifetime will probably be 60-100k. My parents Camry likes new ones every 25k. Granted I live in the mid-west and live in CA but my mother is retired and drives like.....well, for lack of a better term...an old lady.

I think that the patented "smushy" Subaru brake feel may lead to overuse.

cptplt

FWIW the two 92s and the 98 i still have are all fairly consistent with brake life. Fronts about 40K and rears about 60K. The MY00+ are much heavier though.

cynthiag

This is interesting... I'll keep an eye on my Outback for brakes, as I am not used to having to replace pads very often at all, and I used to drive a 1985 Camry. Her first set of brake pads went on and on, I think they were changed around 74-78K. So I personally wouldn't say that the early Camrys were brake eaters. I think I only changed mine 3-4 times for the life of the car and it lived to 198K.

Of course, it may be me, I think I tend to be very easy on brakes and cars in general.

Cynthia

linsavy

Pad wear is dependent on a bunch of factors like amount of hills in your area, braking style, weight of car and pad design.
My parent live on top of a steep hill. They tend to use pads early.
High performance grippy pads wear out faster. Mercedes and BMW pads make a lot of dust and last 20k miles but they are very effective.
I would trade off short pad life for shorter stopping distances any day.
It's the same for tires. Good grippy tires only last 30k miles. I wouldn't put 80k mile tires on my car because they will increase stopping distances, reduce cornering and are hopeless in the snow.
If you don't like the added expense of replacement, think of it as buying safety.
As long as you are not wearing out the rotors there is no need to be concerned.