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Rodut, you need to calm down a bit. We've been working on the ABS and DSC system for a few weeks (trying to fool them so we can get good dyno readings). There isn't much that I can see happening that will cause loss of control that you are worried about. They were very well designed. If you do almost anything to try to fool them they generate a fault signal and shut down. This is what we are trying to get around, as on the dyno the system sees the front wheels stationary and the rears spinning, and generates a fault condition, causing the engine to loose a lot of power (going into a "safe" condition in which you can't get yourself in too deep).
Host
and if you want to see something silly, go here:
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/tour/popup.html
Just a guess, but I'd say I'll get no more than about 20K-25K miles out of mine....could easily be less.
As for me, I woudln't want to be without the HIDs or the dsc (or the leather or the Bose)...
i'm also considering an S2000, which seems notorious for being difficult in the wet.
That said, I didn't attempt to really "push" the car in inclement weather, either.
Although, I haven't driven mine in the snow, reports are that it isn't a good idea unless you get dedicated snow tires for it.
Snow is an entirely different story.
driving my mild powered 240SX in the rain presents no problems. with the M, it was no problem - until i foolishly pushed it a little too hard on a rainy night in near freezing temp. i figure it will not be a problem with the S or the RX as long as one modulates the throttle with proper finesse. I just wonder if one car is more forgiving or easier to drive in those conditions.
by the way, saw an RX-8 commercial for the first time, if anyone had any doubts about this being anything less than a sports car, that one ought to convince them otherwise. amazing drift sequences.
Tires are still the key in the snow, though.
"The RX-8 works because it drives better than competitors like the 350Z and the Audi TT. In the RX-8, Mazda has created a wonderful sports car and a worthy successor to the RX-7."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
seems to me that with a hatch they would have to get rid of the two little doors to maintain the rigidity. any ME's out there?
the XLR is a fine car, but it does not break new ground. in terms of significance, i think the Prius first, then RX-8 second.
So, it boils down to the Prius, which is a $20K car that happens to get 50 MPG and, from all reports, acceptable ride, room and performance. Or, it's the RX8, with the return of the rotary (best one yet), coupe styling with a useable back seat and 4 doors, and scintilating performance/handling.
My obvious choice would be the RX8.
My heart goes for the RX-8. When I'm ready to make a new car purchase in the next couple of years, I'll probably go with the RX (unless rumors of a new Supra come to fuition). But my dad just bought a new Prius a couple of weeks ago.
That is one very surprising little car. The amount of technology and innovation in that thing is amazing. And yes, the ride, room, and acceleration is MORE than just acceptable. I've got a 36" inseam and had more than ample room in the back seat. The ride was pretty decent (although the tire noise was a bit much; combination of reduced sound deadening material, low-rolling resistance tires, and virtual lack of ANY exhaust noise). And the acceleration was actually surprising (this may be an illusion; the electic motor has a LOT of torque right off the line which adds a lot to the feeling of acceleration; with 4 adults on board we had no trouble keeping up with traffic).
I like the RX better (just because it's more of my kind of car) but the Prius is a very surprising piece.
That said, most COTY journalists, put a higher priority on performance.
As good as the Prius may be, it's not a performance vehicle.
I'm not sure I'd say that the RX-8 is convincingly better than any of these cars in every possible way... it's just another contestant, albiet a very good one.
Whereas the Prius really is a standout. The Civic Hybrid is the only thing with four wheels that even comes close.
I've driven a Prelude....ah...a bit more than a "few years of refinement"....I was never able to take a 20 mph curve @ 60 in Prelude.....LOL...but if I didn't feel happy/content/excited/overjoyed about my RX8, then I never would've bought!....drive what makes you happy, and hopefully the COTY voters will be happier in the RX8!!
but anyway, just wanted to wish all the great ones here a very Merry Christmas!!......If it warms up to 75 tomorrow, I will ride a lap at the beach for all of you!!.....Cheers!!
I haven't posted on this board yet but I've been reading it for a while. The RX8 is so beautiful and amazing. I'm hoping to buy a new car in fall of 2004. Right now, the choices are RX8, Z4, WRX STi, Prius, and Honda Insight. Odd mix? Yes, but it represents opposite feelings about cars.
So I appreciate that you can see how both the Prius and the RX8 can contend for COTY.
Postings on this board are generally happy and upbeat and I appreciate that. You seem to think about the RX8 the way I do. It's not about 0-60 times. This car is beautiful and the technology is unique. The interior is perhaps the nicest that I have seen.
I can imagine myself driving it, zipping around curves up in the foothills and thanking those engineers for keeping the rotary alive.
Oh yeah, over on the Prius board, those guys can get pretty crabby and quibble over inane technical details. You guys here are just happier. Merry Christmas to all.
The Prius is a "real" car that gets 50 mpg, is outstandingly clean running, seats four comfortably, at a reasonable price. That sound like something that everyone could appreciate.
The RX8 on the other hand gets poor mileage, does not run particularly cleanly, and has a rather tight interior. Sure it may handle great, but other than that, it's not setting any standards that previous RX7's couldn't better.
While it may not merit COTY honors, the Renesis engine is a technological advancement in that it is a cleaner rotary.
I am just wondering what kind of gas mileage my fellow RX-8 owners have been getting. I got mine three months ago and haven't driven it a lot. It's got 1250 miles on it. I drove it last weekend when I went out of town. Even on the highway, I am getting only 19 miles per gallon.
Are you guys getting similar gas mileage?
Thanks.
Ray
Just stopped by after unwrapping all the gifts, spreading joy to loved ones, got the fire in the fireplace stoked, waiting for the "rest of the crowd" to show up with 'nog and Christmas delicacies.
From all that I've read in the automotive press, the RX8 has indeed made quite an impact on the automotive world based on the universal accolades it has received.
The idea of the Prius being "head and shoulders" better than the RX8, personally, I dont' see it. Two very different cars. The only similarity is the fact that they use unique forms of power. One, gets great gas mileage, with the help of an electric motor (albeit the best iteration of such a set-up) while exhibiting mundane sedan tendencies. The other is a powerful update (and a very good one) of one of the most innovative power plants in the history of internal combustion engines, wrapped in a sexy body and interior, with high quality build and materials, that happens to be comfortable while also being among the best handling cars currently on the road.
MPG? The RX8 matches that of the 350Z (according to Edmunds long term test results which pegs the Z between 14-19 MPG). I would assume the G35C would get worse MPG since it is several 100 pounds heavier. I get 17-18 MPG in town, 22-24 MPG on the highway and about 19 MPG in mixed driving.
RENESIS is "dirty"? That's false. As a matter of fact, based on the production vehicle tests, it can meet or exceed LEV pollution standards once it's results are submitted.
Tight interior? Again, don't see that. I'm 6' and 180 lbs and find the interior quite comfy. Now, if you're pushing 250-300 lbs, I could see where you might think it's "tight".
As all the press has said, the RX8, as a stand alone piece, is outstanding...besting the 350Z/G35/Audi TT, among others. It's also been called the "best RX, yet" and a "worthy successor to the famous RX7".
Happy and safe motoring to all over this holiday season.
Best to all....and a special thanks to all the hosts here at Edmunds for allowing (sometimes disallowing) all of us to discuss one of our favorite past times....cars.
"...and to all a good night..."
GRAPHICGUY
Let those who want a Prius get one, the rest of us can watch them poking along in our rear view mirrors.
LEV is nice but still not the near NOev the Prius emits.
17 MPG aint 50. So that's not even worth discussing on a COTY scale. Heck a Vette can do mid 20 MPG AND scald a RX8's butt.. with pushrods.
I find it amazing that writers will call this RX better than the last iteration when the last ones only shortcoming versus this one may be in the reliability area. Cause that last RX R1 would literally forget this one existed in a head to head. I wonder why no one has done THAT comparo?
It's not a RX/Prius comparo. I'm just answering the previous question why the RX did not win COTY and the Prius did. Considering the Prius is sold out for months and there are storage lots full of RX's, that should answer that.
As the previous owner of 2 RX7's I don't see the RX8 as that much improved. Adding a back seat never amounted to an improvement. Replacing the readily upgradable RX Turbo engine with this lower hp one doesn't seem much of an upgrade either. I'll take a little vapor lock and poor emmisions to be able to spank nearly anyones butt of the line with a couple of tweaks.
I lament the departure of the 300ZX Twin Turbo but I'm not one of those that finds the 350Z an improvement just because it's here. The interior is like plasticland and the engine is down on power from the last 3.0. That doesn't sounmd like an improvement to me. That's just some other car.
Coincidentally, I was about to post on this forum what I considered an unusual event, when I see above it might not be.
My niece is in from London and joined our extended for the trip from Atlanta to Hilton Head. We caravaned on Tuesday and she was given the local Mazda general managers personal RX-8 (GT 6-speed w/4,000 miles) to try out. She drove alone (and weighs 110+/- lbs). My wife, brother in law and his wife rode in my 2002 M5 (collective body weight of approximately 650 lbs, plus 150+/- lb of luggage). Here's the tale of the tank when we re-filled up at Hilton Head Exxon:
Distance driven: 316.5 miles (RX8 odometer showed 320 miles for same exact route). Average speed 72 mph (no tickets). Road & weather conditions: flat and perfect.
M5: 12.72 gallons = 24.88 mpg
RX8: 14.45 gallons = 21.90 mpg
For the record, I have also made this run in a neighbor's S2000 and averaged 30+/- mpg at 80 mph with the top down. In my previous 540i 6-speed, I averaged 26+ mpg for the route.
I'm not advocating that golf_nut (of which I am one) or anyone else turn in their RX8 for a Toyota Prius or Honda Civic. But clearly, this is pitiful fuel efficiency for a lightweight car with average power. I actually suspected that the car might have a gas tank leak, but there is no evidence of that after sitting overnight and checking under the car.
The fact that a 400 hp 4,000 lb M5 hauling 800 lb can substantially outaccelerate a 3,000 lb RX8 and get 3 mpg more on the highway suggests to me that Mazda's engineers need to go back to the drawing board. And to think I am the one that paid a bloody $2,200 gas guzzler tax back in 2002!!
I see no benefit whatsoever to rotary technology that requires more fuel to make less power and drinks oil in the process. My niece was told to check the oil at every fill-up. Good God, this is an improvement on the old RX7?? I think not. On most other counts, my niece liked the RX8, but the engine - in terms of both performance and fuel efficiency - is 2-3 rungs down the ladder from the 2.0 liter VTEC used by Honda in the S2000 and even the 3.0 liter inline 6 in her BMW 330ci. Not to mention the likelhood of major rebuilds in 4-5+ years. If Mazda insists on rotary simply to be different, they should at least be hit with a gas guzzler tax based upon real world fuel efficiency below an M5.
An M5 has it's own weaknesses. Still a nice car, but one that costs about 2X as much as any of those mentioned above.
While I've never owned a 5 Series BMW, I have owned two 3 Series. One good, one bad. While they are fine during the warranty period, whatever minimal $ differences there would be at the pump, my BMWs certainly cost me dearly in maintenance after the warranty period was up.
The amazing part about the RENESIS, is that it puts out so much power from just a 1.3L engine.
Rebuild it at 45K miles? Don't know where that came from as there aren't any out there with that many miles on them yet.
My RX8 hasn't used a drop of oil in 5,600 miles of driving. Still, in ANY car, it's a good idea to check the oil about every other fill-up.
If the RX7 is any guage, the rotaries are capable of 200K+ miles.
If your main criteria is "off the line grunt", then the Corvette is the answer. IF you want turbine smoothness and power throughout the rev range, plus winding out the car to 9K RPMs (which is a thrill, in and of itself), then the RX8 is the only ticket.
The only place to go to get significantly better performance than the RX8 would be the Corvette in my opinion. Of course, those cost significantly more, too. My neighbor has a C5. He gets about 15 MPG cruising around town. He has to put up with the ludacrous "skip shift", however. On the highway, it is amazing, but he does get 26 MPG from a big, honkin' V8.
I have also briefly looked into the M3 convertible and, according to the 3-4 M3 owners I've talked to, BMW's seem to get consistently higher mileage on the highway than their EPA ratings (25-27 for the 6-speed M3 vs. a rating of 23/24). Not that fuel efficiency is much of an issue with a sports car, but if Mazda's EPA rating drops 1-2 mpg (as real world performance suggests), they will be subject to a gas guzzler tax which I suspect will significantly hurt sales. They are already selling at or near invoice in the DC area and a $1,000 gas guzzler charge won't help things. And lest you think an EPA rating change isn't possible or likely, the EPA rating on the 2004 S2000 was lowered by 1-2 mpg. Any spec change in the RX8 engine will automatically trigger an EPA review and the repeated reports of below average MPG has also triggered revised EPA ratings in the past. The RX-8 is living on the edge, which, any way you look at it, is not good for a high tech, low torque, "amazing" 1.3 liter engine. Even Porsche has kept the Boxster S and base 911 out of gas guzzler tax trouble.
I'm told by usually reliable sources that the fuel mixture was richened to meet the 120,000 mi mandated life for the cat. This will impact mileage.
I think calling the engine a 1.3L is a bit exagerated, though I know many think that way. In Europe it is considered to be a 2.6L. I think a case could be made that it is 1/2 way between these extremes. It's just too different compared to a piston engine to use the same methods to calculate displacement.
It's one of the best convertibles on the market.
The RX8 plays in a little bit of a different sandbox than the S2000.
I do everything from getting groceries, to throwing my "golf sticks" in the trunk to stuffing the Christmas gifts to be returned in my RX8 (which is what I'm headed off to do)...and do all of that while remaining comfy with a top notch stereo and one of the best combos of quickness/handling cars on the market. What amazes me even more...that such a quick and great handling car can be so comfortable at the same time.
Gas guzzler tax? I get 19 MPG in mixed driving in my RX8 and regularly get low 20s MPG when on the interstate. I don't hardly consider that qualifying as subject to that tax. There are many more people getting similar MPG to what the MSRP says the RX8 should get than those that aren't. There are even some who are getting 30 MPG with their RX8 (at least one of them is actually in my local RX club).
We have 4 locals in the RX club in my burg that own an RX8. We are all getting close to what the MSRP sticker says we should get.
Given the capabilities of my RX8, that's totally acceptable to me.
To be fair, there are some who are getting 14-19 MPG with their RX8s. To put it into perspective, that's the same as Edmunds is getting with their long term 350Z test.
As mentioned before, I've owned 2 BMWs. I'm a BMW fan. Fact is, I enjoy the RX8 more. MPG in both wasn't dissimilar to what I'm getting with the RX8.
gee35 - "I'm just answering the previous question why the RX did not win COTY and the Prius did."
this recent discussion is based on North American Car of the Year. The Prius has not won, yet. The winner won't be announced till next month.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Motor Trend COTY get a lot of press.
A few quotes relavant to the discussion.
"EPA fuel-economy rating: 60 mpg in the city, 51 mpg on the highway"
" the Prius qualifies for the California Air Resources Board's stringent Super-Ultra-Low-Emissions Vehicle "
From a car that seats 5 comfortably and still runs 0-60 in under 10 sec. Come on...Where's the debate?
By the way 04 RX8's $500 over invoice at Stone Mountain Mazda in Atlanta.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
There are good car deals everywhere right now. If you're in the market for any car....a BMW, an Infiniti, a Mazda, a Honda, a Toyota....any of them...now's the time to make a deal until the 2nd week of January.
I'm not saying the Prius won't be a good car....only that it's a hybrid that gets admittedly great MPG...as does the Honda Hybrid. So does a VW with the TDI powerplant. If MPG is your only criteria, then a Prius should be at the top of your list.
You can buy a Camry around my neck of the woods, fairly loaded, for about $17K. The Prius is selling for $20K since it's new to the market. The Camry would have better performance, be more comfortable, and still get 30 MPG. At a $1.50/gal for gas, over 100,000 miles...you'd pay about an extra $2,000 in gas for the Camry vs the Prius. You're still coming up about $1,000 short by buying the Prius over the Camry based on the fuel economy differences over that 100,000 miles.
I read an article that a cow's flatulence causes more air polution than any car made over the past 3 years. Car emissions are no longer the issue they were even 5-10 years ago.
Again, not meaning to slight the Prius. It's a fine car. But if you do a little bit of a comparison, MPG and emissions aren't the "bugaboo" they were several years ago.
I think the appeal of Prius is for its futuristic promise. The appeal of the RX8 is for what you get right here right now. Sometimes the future is sexier, so I can see that influencing the voting.
Why would we discredit the MTCOTY with cars from over a decade ago. I mean the Focus was NACOTY and I'll bet it'll go down in history as one of the most recalled cars in years.
There ARE deals to be had. But not on cars that were supposed to be a revolutionary as this one. The RX hasn't been on the market long enough to be heavily discounted. Resale for the first owners is gonna suck. I've been seeing low prices for the RX for a couple months now. I said this when it was intruduced. There is not as much of a market for this car in this country as Mazda thinks.
The Honda Hybrid is a great car too. But not as powerful or large as the Prius. The Beetle also doesn't get as good mileage as the Prius AND is a diesel so emmission will suck in this country since we have sorry diesel.
Check the option list and I'm sure the Camry you can get for $17 will be a little short on equipment. Not to mention a little higher on emmissions. Even at 30 mpg the Camry would still be HALF of the 60 mpg city on the Prius. Again there's no debate.
If car emmission wasn't the issue, there would still be an RX7 Turbo or even an RX8 Turbo. But there aren't because of.....emmissions and fuel economy. It's an issue somewhere.
Can't comment much about the cows though.
I've been thumbing through the post on this forum and for the most part, I have been entertaining the idea of purchasing an RX8 and had a few questions for you current Rx8 owners.
First, I don't want to start a "holy war" in terms of which vehicle(s) are better, but just for the record, here are the vehicles that I am considering. Also, I am looking to purchase my next vehicle in addition to keeping my 2003 GMC Envoy XL V-8.. it's just too big for everyday driving!
#1. Honda Accord V-6 Coupe with Navigation -- Practicality, lots of bang for the buck and "sort of" fills my desire for a practical 2 door sports car. Will have to retrofit HID's though?
#2. Nissan 350Z Roadster -- Very nice vehicle, but fully loaded will run me over $40K and I understand that most are paying full sticker? Ick..
#3. Cadillac CTS Luxury Sport Model -- I know.. what the heck? Well.. I can get GM discount on this vehicle and it does have a lot of bang for the buck, distinctive styling and a new V-6 engine that has plenty of "power."
#4. Infiniti G35 Coupe -- Very nice vehicle, excellent handling, elegant look but can also get kinda pricy?
My questions for you current RX8 owners:
A. IF I am to purchase an RX8, I will get the automatic version fully loaded. Since the auto decreases the horsepower, I am a little worried that I would be dissapointed in the long run with the overall power of the vehicle? Anyone care to comment on the Auto's 0-60 mph times and/or experiences with the automatic? Personally, my V-8 Envoy is a beast, but it will surely keep your spine securely fastened to the seat during acceleration. I kinda consider it to be my extra large sports car! If the RX8 will feel slower than my Envoy, I really do think that I would be dissapointed.
B. In terms of gadgetry.. I will more than likely purchase the Navigation system. One of my biggest concerns is that I don't think that the RX8 comes with a trip computer that tells you MPG, Instantaneous, Distance to Empty, etc? Can someone please tell me if the Navi system contains a trip computer?
C. I've read different comments posted here about the reliability of the engine (i.e. stalling, etc). What are the top issues related to the engine that I should be aware of?
D. Last but not least, for those current RX8 owners, would you consider buying again if you had a chance to do it all over again?
Thanks in advance for your help..
IExplore2000
Depends on what you want.
Honda's reputation speaks for itself. Nice cars, just more "middle of the road" than what I prefer. They had issues early with their automatic trannys, but haven't heard anything of late.
350Z...punishing ride...some fit and finish shortcomings...subpar interior. All that said, along with the RX8, they are one of the current benchmarks amont mid-level sports cars.
G35C....some brake problems, but Infiniti seems to be aware of them. A 350Z with some of the rough edges smoothed out. Probably the closest competitor to the RX8.
CTS....I have no clue. I've never driven one. Styling is subjective, but I don't like the boxy look they have gone to.
Automatic version of the RX8 blunts some of it's performance. Mine is the 6-speed, but have driven the automatic at local user's groups. Feels more like your previously mentioned Accord, except when you get on the upper reaches of the tach, at which time it becomes very quick. The best handling car of the group you're looking at. Very easy to drive very fast...regardless of the curves (or straight line) road.
The NAV does not have any MPG, DTE, etc readings. That said, I've owned cars with those types of readouts in the past. I can say, at best, they are inaccurate. The NAV system itself, is one of the best out there. Most NAVs use NAVTECH, which seems to be the preference for all manufacturers.
There have been a few people on another board that have mentioned flooding. The vast majority of us have not experienced that issue. In fairness, flooding any car becomes an issue when the wheather changes. My neighbor's '03 Accord was flat bedded to the dealer a couple of weeks ago becuase it flooded.
For what it's worth, the RX8 was chosen as a "Top 10 Best" by C&D. A few months ago, C&D also did a sports car "shootout" comparing the RX8 to the Cobra and G35C. The RX8 won that one, too. "TopGear" in the UK tested the RX8. Clarkson called it the "best car driven" this year....including the 350Z. It also matched the track numbers of the BMW M3 and the 350Z Track. Of course, you can read what Edmunds has to say about the RX8 here in the "Sports Car Shootout" article. There are other reviews from Australia, and other parts of the world if you want to do a search.
Short supply reminds me of the pre-orders for the RX8 when they were first shown last year at the International Auto Show in Detroit. Prius production will eventually catch up.
iexplore....one question you asked that I failed to answer...would I but my RX8 again? In short, an unqualified YES!
Just as a side note, I had test driven a bunch of cars before buying the RX8 in August. Aside from the RX8, I spent a lot of time with both the 350Z and the G35C. Matter of fact, the local Infiniti dealer let me use a G35 over a weekend (SMs demo car). I had test driven the 350Z on several occasions over about a 2 month period.
You really should test drive an RX8 to see what everyone else raves about.